LCD Buyer's Guide

[Cothilian]

Hello Xknight. I'm mainly looking for a 22" or larger LCD for photo/video editing and graphics work...and maybe a little gaming on the side.

Have you heard anything/have any opinion about the new L245WP-BN from LG? Supposedly it's the first S-IPS 24" monitor. I'm mainly interested in it because of the large S-IPS panel...usually the best panel type right?

Would the LG be a better choice than the BenQ FP241W? The 24" Benq sounds good too but it's not S-IPS.. Maybe great for gaming but not so great if you're doing graphics?

I'd be grateful for any advice...right now I'm thinking maybe Eizo S2411W would be a solution. But it's kinda expensive for a S-PVA and I'm wondering if I won't be paying more for the brand than actual picture quality. Thanks for this great guide!

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: thecompguru
I take it from your response that most lcds dont apear blurry. Yes they were analog so i guess that could be a factor as well. In store i recall seeing several that were way too blury for me, almost as if they werent in their native resolution, but for only 80% of the screen or so.

24inch dell was in spots, mainly discolloration in areas, a 17" samsung 740n, blurry all the time(on a crap setup, could be video signal output, havent tested) and off the top of my head, a lower end wide panel 20-22inch samsung in store was blury ove most of the screen as well. Ive seen good crisp screens, i dont know about color reproduction but looked crip, ie apples 30 inch looked crisp from what i remember. I just dont have a lot of 'hands' on experience with a good scope of lcds. Just lots that appear blurry.

2 lcds because Id get more realestate room that way. I do a lot where i need to refrence from one resource to another and having to constantly search for what i just had to minimize is troublesome with as many windows as i run. Used to feel the same way about the one big monitor, but if i want to read an ebook about programming or a refrence doc on my left and say program on my right its much quicker this way. I love to game but reality is it doesnt add up to much time spent comparied to the rest. But it sounds like ur saying most of the lcds should be clear enough, ig uess i saw a few bad ones or somthen?

They have pretty bad video feeds at the stores. I do understand your rationale for the dual-monitor setup though.

Dead pixle thing was more of a convinence thing, but definitly dont wana favor one monitor over another for it probably. 2 differnt lcds could work, wouldnt look as nice but i recognize that maybe a gameing one as primary and a color/clearity/text one for the other. And the 2 you sudgested Acer AL2216WBD and LG L204WT are a 20" and 22", granted the same resolution, but seems like putting them side by side might be kinda confuseing in transition.

I guess my main question here is, whats the difference btwn the Acer AL2216WBD and the LG L204WT

they seem pretty close to me, differnt display types i think? but the big thing i can see is the pixel pitch is tighter on the LG since its smaller, which id perfer since im so used to crts. other than that though? acer isnt as bright i take it, and perhapes a little better for games(if so i can sacrafice some speed for quality i suspect)? both seem about the same price, lg being 20 or so more. Just looking for a bit more of a comparison i guess, leaning toward LG esp since i could just pick it up in store i assume.

The LG is faster for games and it may be brighter. Color quality may be a bit better on the LG as well. The smaller dot pitch would suit you better if you're used to a CRT. Two L204WTs seem right for you.

 

[xtknight]

I'm not sure about the 226BW, I'll have to read up on it some more.

Originally posted by: im2good4u
just saw this from dell, Dell E228WFP its really cheap but anyone tried it? any feedbacks? still on the market for an LCD since i chose to upgrade my video card first Ü. might be an overkill but i got for a nice deal

It's one of Dell's lower end value LCDs, and the performance is the same thing (don't expect much but entry-level performance).

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Cothilian
Hello Xknight. I'm mainly looking for a 22" or larger LCD for photo/video editing and graphics work...and maybe a little gaming on the side.

I wouldn't recommend 22"s as they're all TNs. Go for something bigger (based off the following sentences it looks like you already knew that).

Have you heard anything/have any opinion about the new L245WP-BN from LG? Supposedly it's the first S-IPS 24" monitor. I'm mainly interested in it because of the large S-IPS panel...usually the best panel type right?

You'd be right. I've been busy this week due to finals so I haven't been keeping up on LCDs (no, my life doesn't revolve around them despite what it may seem ). I had however heard of that model.

Would the LG be a better choice than the BenQ FP241W? The 24" Benq sounds good too but it's not S-IPS.. Maybe great for gaming but not so great if you're doing graphics?

The FP241W actually wouldn't be bad at all for graphics, but the LG would almost unquestionably be better due to its panel type. For gaming the big displays all tend to have input lag, for whatever reason.

I'd be grateful for any advice...right now I'm thinking maybe Eizo S2411W would be a solution. But it's kinda expensive for a S-PVA and I'm wondering if I won't be paying more for the brand than actual picture quality. Thanks for this great guide!

Go for the BenQ FP241W if you're buying a 24" MVA-based screen. It's probably better than the S2411W and honestly Eizo isn't all it's cracked up to be.

 

[MDE]

Does anyone have an opinion on the Samsung 941BW?

Link

 

[Suetonius]

Xtknight,


Thank you for the earlier guidance.

One more question: what is the least expensive 19" 1280 X 1024 SXGA LCD monitor that you can recommend that will do 256 shades of gray?

Otherwise non-demanding - no gaming, no movies, no photography. Just email, Internet, word processing and the occasional (about thirty hours/year) grayscale image.


Thanks again,

Suetonius

 

[BassBomb]

Hey XT

Finally got my 20WMGX2 .

At first I did not feel like it was worth it. Using it more I love it.

I tested it with clone image @1280x1024 to compare to my old Samsung. It blows that out of the water.

Small pixel pitch is my favorite part. Has even less ghosting than my decent 8ms former.

Only downside besides price IMO was the glossy screen. A little too reflective at night for my use, however is not that bad. Another very minor downside was the sand felt a little flimsy but thats ok.

I tested it on COAX and it looked decent for Telvision.

I LOVE IT! I was contemplating returning it but I am definatley not going to.

Tweaking this baby was tough. But I have it set now. I can see shades from 10 - 250 very well. I do see down to RGB 6, 6, 6 but I have to stare. I have not tested at night.
This tweak was to allow ZERO banding from what I could see.

Color: Native
Sharpness: 18.7
Contrast: 70ish
Brightness: 17

ADV: Off
DV: Standard

I have no clue how to tweak the colors without a calibrator.

I tested a few games. Now I am sad how older games did not like 16:10 (doom3) stretched out HUD . BF2 I know will stretch.

Worms Armaggeddon looked amazing! Far Cry was great (but I lag). FEAR does not seem to want to load anymore so I cannot test that. CS:S was great too.

I have to get used to my mouse settings and such now.

OVERALL:

9/10 Factoring in Price
10/10 Not Factoring in Price

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: MDE
Does anyone have an opinion on the Samsung 941BW?

Link

Hmm. Well if I were to buy a 19" widescreen that might be it (well the LG L194WT deserves a better look). Reviews are sparse these days.

Originally posted by: Suetonius
Xtknight,


Thank you for the earlier guidance.

One more question: what is the least expensive 19" 1280 X 1024 SXGA LCD monitor that you can recommend that will do 256 shades of gray?

Otherwise non-demanding - no gaming, no movies, no photography. Just email, Internet, word processing and the occasional (about thirty hours/year) grayscale image.


Thanks again,

Suetonius

Well, I would have thought it was the 1970NX but the NEC rep already disproved that. Quite frankly, I do not know for sure if 8-bit 19" panels exist other than the pro models. I'm afraid that's all I can say. What I would recommend is the VP930b. It's not 8-bit but it has a decent FRC algorithm (of course that has its problems). The Samsung 971P may be good too, though the 970P used 2x2 dithering so the VP930b would be preferable due to FRC. I'm not sure if the 971P uses FRC now.

 

[Gdiguy]

Hi everyone,

So I'm a bit overwhelmed at the moment; I'm looking to buy my first LCD, where in the past I've been using either CRTs or (currently) a Dell XPS laptop (which I'm not sure exactly what the specs of the display it uses are, but it can do 1920x1200 resolutions)...

I'm basically not sure what models/price range I should be looking for (I'm hoping to spend ~300, but if there's a huge benefit I could go a touch higher)... I do a good amount of programming, so I'd like something with a good resolution (not 1920 good, but at least ~1600xwhatever) and easily visable, and although I don't do as much FPS-type gaming as I used to, I do play WoW and I'd still like to be able to get that to work well... would something like Samsung 204B work very well? And do you happen to know of anything Widescreen that would be comparable quality?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Gdiguy
Hi everyone,

So I'm a bit overwhelmed at the moment; I'm looking to buy my first LCD, where in the past I've been using either CRTs or (currently) a Dell XPS laptop (which I'm not sure exactly what the specs of the display it uses are, but it can do 1920x1200 resolutions)...

I'm basically not sure what models/price range I should be looking for (I'm hoping to spend ~300, but if there's a huge benefit I could go a touch higher)... I do a good amount of programming, so I'd like something with a good resolution (not 1920 good, but at least ~1600xwhatever) and easily visable, and although I don't do as much FPS-type gaming as I used to, I do play WoW and I'd still like to be able to get that to work well... would something like Samsung 204B work very well? And do you happen to know of anything Widescreen that would be comparable quality?

The 204B wouldn't be too bad for mainly text work and it would be OK for gaming. It's definitely a value screen but being a Samsung LCD it's not too shabby. I'm not sure that getting a higher quality screen would be worth it for your wallet. The VX2025WM is really another screen you should consider. It is higher quality, widescreen, and not much more expensive, although the widescreen gives you less overall screen area. Either the Samsung 204B or Viewsonic VX2025WM sounds good for you. Apparently the 204B has some screen uniformity or viewing angle issues (more than usual), so I'd lean toward the VX2025WM. The VX would be faster for gaming in most situations.

 

[TheHalvie]

xtknight, you have any experience or knowledge about the samsung 931BF? It has pretty much the same specs as the 940bf. I picked one up because I figured it was pretty much the same thing and I am having a hard time adjusting the colors. It looks fairly faded out and can't seem to fix it even with the disc that comes with the monitor. If you have any knowledge about my model or any clue how to do a better job adjusting the colors it would help.

Also, I remember reading in this thread that you suggested the Viewsonic VX922 over the NEC 90gx2, but the 90gx2 is on the list and the vx isn't. I'll start paging through the 150 some pages, but if you respond before I get there could you let me now why.


thanks
Troy

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: TheHalvie
xtknight, you have any experience or knowledge about the samsung 931BF? It has pretty much the same specs as the 940bf. I picked one up because I figured it was pretty much the same thing and I am having a hard time adjusting the colors. It looks fairly faded out and can't seem to fix it even with the disc that comes with the monitor. If you have any knowledge about my model or any clue how to do a better job adjusting the colors it would help.

I'm not sure. I thought the 931BF was supposed to be more vibrant than the 940BF. Are you sure it was any more faded out than the 940BF? TN LCDs in general don't display the most saturated colors. It's just a problem with the technology unfortunately and adjusting settings will only migrate the problem. But I do have tweak guides on my website that may help you improve the situation.

Also, I remember reading in this thread that you suggested the Viewsonic VX922 over the NEC 90gx2, but the 90gx2 is on the list and the vx isn't. I'll start paging through the 150 some pages, but if you respond before I get there could you let me now why.


thanks
Troy

I can't remember if I did or not, but I would take the NEC 90GX2 over the ViewSonic VX922 for gaming. The 90GX2 has much better colors which is one thing you sacrificed if you got the VX922. It is also just as fast.

 

[0x0BADF00D]

xt,

I've sort of gotten a decent setup now. I'm runnig gnome on X11 on OS X on the mac-mini, which is connected to the monitor via DVI. This lets me by-pass the crappy OS X font smoothing, and use the X11 font rendering. I ssh to my Linux laptop, and use Synergy to share the keyboard and mouse between the 2 machines. Not quite one single desktop, but it's not too bad. Still sorta miffed about the noisy VGA input on the 20WGX2. Can't use the monitor with the notebook for gaming.

BTW, when configuring the true-type fonts in Linux, does the DPI setting matter? Should it match the monitor's PPI? My notebook's PPI is 117. The monitor's about 100. It seems that the only difference is that the bigger the PPI, the smaller the font-size needs to be set to get the same "font size", if that makes sense.

 

[wtfulookinat]

The fact that you stay with this thread xtknight is no mean feat.

I have a question on a monitor I can not find a review on anywhere (I hope it hasn't been mentioned in here before, but I've read 50 pages so far and nothing yet)..

Philips 200P7EB

http://www.consumer.philips.com/consume...uster=55KR1KKMFFHXZJ0RMRCSHQFHKFSESI5P

The only information I could find was from a Singapore forum where it was listed as using a LM201U05 panel like the HP LP2065.

Our design department is after a sub AU$700 monitor for graphic design, photo editing and print. So far we are looking at the ever impressive 215TW, and now this Philips as it seems to use a S-IPS panel. Why I ask is that the 200P7EB is actually cheaper than the 215TW here in Australia. $645 vs $610. By comparison the HP LP2065 is $800 and the NEC's over $1000.

Should we be wary of a 20" S-IPS panel at such a price difference from the HP and NEC versions? low quality binning etc? Is it even a S-IPS? the specs say S-IPS, but the price says S-PVA. What would you recommend?

It is almost impossible to see them on display here in Melbourne, so we have to rely on good people like yourself to get some sort of an idea.

Cheers.

Edit: I should mention we have a Lacie Blue Eye Pro so it will definately be calibrated. Out of the box doesnt matter so much.

 

[Engel]

Originally posted by: wtfulookinat
Our design department is after a sub AU$700 monitor for graphic design, photo editing and print. So far we are looking at the ever impressive 215TW, and now this Philips as it seems to use a S-IPS panel. Why I ask is that the 200P7EB is actually cheaper than the 215TW here in Australia. $645 vs $610. By comparison the HP LP2065 is $800 and the NEC's over $1000.

Should we be wary of a 20" S-IPS panel at such a price difference from the HP and NEC versions? low quality binning etc? Is it even a S-IPS? the specs say S-IPS, but the price says S-PVA. What would you recommend?

The 215TW is a Samsung with a PVA panel, so the quality will not be as good as an S-IPS panel. Also, the PVA panels are Samsung's line, so I seriously doubt you'd have to worry about getting a Phillips monitor with a PVA panel. LG Phillips makes their own panels: the S-IPS panels.

 

[wtfulookinat]

yep im aware of that.. the point I was trying to make is that it seems too cheap to be a s-ips (which it almost certainly is), So I'm trying to find out what the trade off is. Usually its better to have a great s-pva (215tw) than an average s-ips (Philips 200P7EB??) I'm trying to determine if the Philips I have listed is a good implementation of the panel, and if the panel is of decent bin quality.

 

[xtknight]

I just went to work again and examined the Dell 2007FP once again. I was thoroughly disappointed with its dark image performance and dynamic range. I could never get the first 16 black levels to show up reliably. The matte coating also had a really annoying look to it. Clearly not all S-IPS screens are the best thing since slice bread. It's good for text work and to be fair it was hooked up via VGA (I had no choice), but the fact that it's VGA can't account for these flaws as far as I can tell. Maybe the NEC 20WMGX2 has spoiled me.

 

[PhotoMan]

If color accuracy is important to you, I suggest the HP LP 2065 calibrated with ColorEyes Display in DDC mode.

I got amazing results with that combo.

Average DeltaE 0,23 max DeltaE 0,43 visible difference down to RGB value 3, smooth gradients with almost no banding, and white point at 100cd/m2.

Mind you the good performance was due to this particular calibration software, with Monaco Optix XR I couldn't get white point lower than 120CD/m2.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: wtfulookinat
The fact that you stay with this thread xtknight is no mean feat.

I have a question on a monitor I can not find a review on anywhere (I hope it hasn't been mentioned in here before, but I've read 50 pages so far and nothing yet)..

Philips 200P7EB

http://www.consumer.philips.com/consume...uster=55KR1KKMFFHXZJ0RMRCSHQFHKFSESI5P

The only information I could find was from a Singapore forum where it was listed as using a LM201U05 panel like the HP LP2065.

Our design department is after a sub AU$700 monitor for graphic design, photo editing and print. So far we are looking at the ever impressive 215TW, and now this Philips as it seems to use a S-IPS panel. Why I ask is that the 200P7EB is actually cheaper than the 215TW here in Australia. $645 vs $610. By comparison the HP LP2065 is $800 and the NEC's over $1000.

I don't know. Pricing/importing varies all over the place. I would take the Samsung 215TW honestly. The 20" S-IPS isn't as impressive as I had thought.

Should we be wary of a 20" S-IPS panel at such a price difference from the HP and NEC versions? low quality binning etc? Is it even a S-IPS? the specs say S-IPS, but the price says S-PVA. What would you recommend?

It is almost impossible to see them on display here in Melbourne, so we have to rely on good people like yourself to get some sort of an idea.

Cheers.

Edit: I should mention we have a Lacie Blue Eye Pro so it will definately be calibrated. Out of the box doesnt matter so much.

Get the 215TW.

 

[Gdiguy]

The 204B wouldn't be too bad for mainly text work and it would be OK for gaming. It's definitely a value screen but being a Samsung LCD it's not too shabby. I'm not sure that getting a higher quality screen would be worth it for your wallet. The VX2025WM is really another screen you should consider. It is higher quality, widescreen, and not much more expensive, although the widescreen gives you less overall screen area. Either the Samsung 204B or Viewsonic VX2025WM sounds good for you. Apparently the 204B has some screen uniformity or viewing angle issues (more than usual), so I'd lean toward the VX2025WM. The VX would be faster for gaming in most situations.

Awesome, thanks... do you have an opinion about the VX2025WM vs the VX2035WM? The '35 seems to be ~$60 cheaper (on newegg, in stores it's still ~$350), but with a lower refresh rate than the '25? From reading online it seems the 2035 is a replacement for the 2025, but since they're both sold I figured I'd ask if you knew if the newer version is better/worse than the older one.

I also saw the VX2235WM locally, and it looks nice (and is around the same price after rebates), though it seems from some net searching people have some complaints about it...

 

[Fox5]

Heya,
My friend is getting a new PC now, and wants a monitor at least 19" in size and under $200. Any recommendations? He mostly does video editing, and general school work, internet browsing, etc.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: PhotoMan
If color accuracy is important to you, I suggest the HP LP 2065 calibrated with ColorEyes Display in DDC mode.

I got amazing results with that combo.

Average DeltaE 0,23 max DeltaE 0,43 visible difference down to RGB value 3, smooth gradients with almost no banding, and white point at 100cd/m2.

Mind you the good performance was due to this particular calibration software, with Monaco Optix XR I couldn't get white point lower than 120CD/m2.

Well the Dell 2007FP has the same panel and I didn't have good luck calibrating it at all. Maybe the manufacturer really does matter. The 2007FP they had at work was pretty underwhelming.

It was pretty clear that the calibration software wasn't the issue as about 30 tones had to be clipped when calibrating for the native white point. I couldn't get the gradient to look white at the end no matter what settings I did. How is your LP2065 at default gamma? Anywhere near acceptable for photo work? How are the first 16 shades of gray (see link in my sig) at default gamma? It was one completely black screen for me. There was a mode in the OSD called "mac mode" (1.8 gamma I assume) vs "pc mode" (2.2 gamma). Mac mode seemed brighter (as expected) but the gradient performance was still pretty poor IMO. Thing is, photos didn't look all that bad. Midtones weren't bad but dark detail and bright detail was abysmal.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Gdiguy

The 204B wouldn't be too bad for mainly text work and it would be OK for gaming. It's definitely a value screen but being a Samsung LCD it's not too shabby. I'm not sure that getting a higher quality screen would be worth it for your wallet. The VX2025WM is really another screen you should consider. It is higher quality, widescreen, and not much more expensive, although the widescreen gives you less overall screen area. Either the Samsung 204B or Viewsonic VX2025WM sounds good for you. Apparently the 204B has some screen uniformity or viewing angle issues (more than usual), so I'd lean toward the VX2025WM. The VX would be faster for gaming in most situations.

Awesome, thanks... do you have an opinion about the VX2025WM vs the VX2035WM? The '35 seems to be ~$60 cheaper (on newegg, in stores it's still ~$350), but with a lower refresh rate than the '25? From reading online it seems the 2035 is a replacement for the 2025, but since they're both sold I figured I'd ask if you knew if the newer version is better/worse than the older one.

I also saw the VX2235WM locally, and it looks nice (and is around the same price after rebates), though it seems from some net searching people have some complaints about it...

I would definitely recommend the 2025 over the 2035 (the 2025 uses a P-MVA and the 2035 a TN). The 2235 is also a TN, I'd also recommend the 2025 over that.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Fox5
Heya,
My friend is getting a new PC now, and wants a monitor at least 19" in size and under $200. Any recommendations? He mostly does video editing, and general school work, internet browsing, etc.

There isn't much you can get for <$200. The BenQ FP93E shouldn't be too shabby, though. It'll be sharp for text but just don't expect that great of color performance. I really think a VP930b is worth it for $300. Value doesn't always come cheap.

 

[PhotoMan]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: PhotoMan
If color accuracy is important to you, I suggest the HP LP 2065 calibrated with ColorEyes Display in DDC mode.

I got amazing results with that combo.

Average DeltaE 0,23 max DeltaE 0,43 visible difference down to RGB value 3, smooth gradients with almost no banding, and white point at 100cd/m2.

Mind you the good performance was due to this particular calibration software, with Monaco Optix XR I couldn't get white point lower than 120CD/m2.

Well the Dell 2007FP has the same panel and I didn't have good luck calibrating it at all. Maybe the manufacturer really does matter. The 2007FP they had at work was pretty underwhelming.

It was pretty clear that the calibration software wasn't the issue as about 30 tones had to be clipped when calibrating for the native white point. I couldn't get the gradient to look white at the end no matter what settings I did. How is your LP2065 at default gamma? Anywhere near acceptable for photo work? How are the first 16 shades of gray (see link in my sig) at default gamma? It was one completely black screen for me. There was a mode in the OSD called "mac mode" (1.8 gamma I assume) vs "pc mode" (2.2 gamma). Mac mode seemed brighter (as expected) but the gradient performance was still pretty poor IMO. Thing is, photos didn't look all that bad. Midtones weren't bad but dark detail and bright detail was abysmal.

Well, the Dell has the same panel with the HP LP 2035, (LG.Philips LM201U04)
The HP LP 2065 has an LG.Philips LM201U05 panel, just like NEC 2090UXi.

For photo editing it's very important to be able to calibrate at 110cd/m2 and lower or your prints will come out darker than you see them.

I know that the Dell doesn't go below 175cd/m2 so it's totaly unacceptable for photo editing.

That's the reason I went straight with the ColorEyes display software.
With Monaco Optix XR Pro I couldn't get white point below 130cd/m2 unless I touch the RGB controls, and lowering the RGB values to 50% I couldn't still go below 120cd/m2.

I calibrated with ColorEyes Display using L* gamma, 16bit LUT based ICC V4 profile in DDC mode.
That means that the software took care of all the adjustments to calibrate and profile the monitor.
Brightness, contrast, and RGB values were adjusted internaly through DDC and no adjustments were made to the graphics card.

Unfortunately CED is a demo and I cannot try other calibrations anymore.

I will buy the software in a couple of months and I will be able to try other methods then.

I tried the tests at LCDRESOURCE and I'm very proud of my monitor's performance.

The Dark Grayscale Test is absolutely flawless showing the entire pyramid of dark shades, at the image tests I had no problem with any of the images and the Gradient Linearity Test showed 4 smooth gradients and 4 "staired" (if that's the word) gradients but I guess that this is what I was suppose to see.
The gray gradient was nuteral throughout the range.

The only thing that puzzles me though is a strange line of "dancing" cyan/blue sub-pixels that shows up at a specific gray shade.

It's neither hot or dead pixels though as they follow the shade everywhere.

I cannot guarantie that this performance is possible with other calibration methods/software.

Also the colorimeter used was the X-Rite DTP94 from my Monaco XR that is also the most recommended instrument for this particular software.