LCD Buyer's Guide

[zerokarma]

How about listing some industrial lcd models like:
http://www.stealthcomputer.com/monitors_flat.htm

 

[scaaven2]

thanks xtknight for a great post. I want to get a widescreen monitor for gaming, but I don't want to spend the money on NEC MultiSync 20WMGX2. Also, the reviews complaining about the glare and reflectivity concern me.

About a year ago I bought the dell 2407 and ended up sending it back the next day because of input lag. Everyone thought I was crazy because the monitor looked great and they couldn't feel any lag, but it was extremely painful for me to use, especially in games.

So, what would be your recommendations for a 20"+ widescreen gaming monitor that won't break the bank or give input lag? thanks!

 

[PrinceofWands]

Wanted to say thanks for a great guide. I'm looking to upgrade from my old crt's. Haven't decided if I'll do 2 or 3 yet, but the decision might be influenced by overall price. I can get the 205BW's for $239 each right now. Would it be worth it to pay the extra $350 per monitor to get 20WMGX2's? I do mostly office work, but also watch tv/movies while I do and maybe an hour of gaming per day. I'm all for quality but I want to know my extra $700-$1050 was well spent.

 

[Zebo]

I'd start low and go higher if it's a problem. Something like the HP LP 2065 is an excellent all around display for $350AR and it's 8% bigger than GX2 being 4:3 20". IMO Only reason to by GX2 is if you're a gamer and need the faster response and/or you just love Opticlear.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: PhotoMan
About CED:

What settings did you use?
My settings were: 16bit LUT based ICC V4 profiles, L* gamma, D65, Luminance target 100CD/m2

Firstly: 16-bit LUT, 6500K, 120 cd/m2, L*
Secondly: 16-bit LUT, 6500K, 120 cd/m2, 2.2 gamma

I assume that the L* stands for the CIE Lab Lightness chanel which is used anyway in any color profile conversion (all color profile conversions take place in the Lab Color color space).

I think the L* means linear, as in perceptually linear across the whole grayscale.

DDC is SUPPOSED to adjust writable LUT's but it seems that this is not the case every time.

I think the only case in which the whole LUT is writeable is on $2000+ LCDs from NEC, Samsung or Eizo. X-Bit Labs talks of it as if it was a niche feature in their latest LCD article, and I tend to believe this is the case.

NEC 90 series, LaCie 3 and CG series EIZOs do have writable LUTs but they don't give information to third party software developers to make their software compatible.

Correct, NEC requires you to buy SpectraView for supported monitors.

I don't know how DDC works on my HP, whether it writes a LUT in the monitor's memory or is only adjusting the available controls; and to be honest with an average DE 0,23, max DE 0,43, at 100cd/m2, smooth gradients, minimal banding, shaddow and highlight detail that I had never seen before and prints that match perfectly what I see, I don't even care.

Well, right, right, but you still don't get the flexibility you have with additional graphics card adjustment. On the other hand, you don't get a limited number of colors either, so it all depends on which trade-off you're content with. Personally I would lean towards the accurate side even if I had to sacrifice a couple of colors to make it that way. The 'max colors' would be reserved for multimedia, IMHO. Just to let you know, I think you are using the graphics card adjustment also. You would pretty much have to be to be pulling numbers like that off of a consumer LCD.

However it really seems to adjust the monitors RGB controls but I don't know if it touches the Graphics Card LUT.

I know that when I enabled DDC adjustment that it still gave me an ICC profile containing a 16-bit table of gamma. This is where the 16-bit LUT comes in, as it certainly isn't in the monitor.

Integrated Color is not very clear about this.
Monaco Optix XR Pro software couldn't give me comparable results though and that's what forced me to believe that DDC makes the difference.

I think that if you're careful enough you can do just as good if not better than a software using DDC, as the software just runs through a loop and has to decide where to stop and throw in the towel or give up. On the other hand, if a human's doing it, I can just keep adjusting until my hands get tired. DDC is great for ease of use though, I enjoy just clicking "Quick Cal" and having a fully calibrated monitor under 15 minutes. I'm really not negating the advantages of it here, and I still have to compare the deltaE2000 values put out by basiCColor to those displayed by CED.

-

For me the point is that I saved at least $1500 as my plan was to get the HP and use it as a second monitor on a future upgrade to a High End EIZO or NEC and now I don't have to upgrade to anything.

Hey, certainly a great thing there. I believe a lot of monitors under $1000 can be used for photo editing just fine with calibration, and those containing S-IPS panels are certainly at the top. I still don't agree that the LP2065 displays a better picture than the 20WMGX2, but that's somewhere we'll just have to disagree. Your deltaE values are better than mine so far and perhaps the 20WMGX2 is more suited to multimedia than anything else. I think the colors would pop out more on the NEC.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: xboxist
How do I change my gamma settings on an ATI card? I have ATI Tray Tools, but unless it's called something else in there, I just don't see it.

Is this not done through the video card?

Every card has a writeable gamma table. Maybe ATI Tray Tools doesn't have the option. You can use other software to adjust gamma like RivaTuner.

Originally posted by: zerokarma
How about listing some industrial lcd models like:
http://www.stealthcomputer.com/monitors_flat.htm

If you want a simple answer it's just because I don't know anything about those LCDs and haven't seen any reviews of 'em. It wouldn't do me much good to completely guess.

Originally posted by: scaaven2
thanks xtknight for a great post. I want to get a widescreen monitor for gaming, but I don't want to spend the money on NEC MultiSync 20WMGX2. Also, the reviews complaining about the glare and reflectivity concern me.

*me swears* Just kidding, obviously the 20WMGX2 isn't for everybody. In its last review, Maximum PC rated it a 4 out of 10.

About a year ago I bought the dell 2407 and ended up sending it back the next day because of input lag. Everyone thought I was crazy because the monitor looked great and they couldn't feel any lag, but it was extremely painful for me to use, especially in games.

So, what would be your recommendations for a 20"+ widescreen gaming monitor that won't break the bank or give input lag? thanks!

The LG L204WT wouldn't be a bad choice. It has good gamma control meaning colors appear true and vibrant. The VX2025WM is great too. Having never seen either in real life, it's hard to say which I'd choose. The L204WT, being a TN, obviously has a cell arrangement in which the direction of your eyes affects how you percieve the image as a whole. In English, even if you simply look at a different part of the display it won't look uniform, and if you move your head, it will invert a little. The latest TNs with film don't have nearly the problem that others do, but it's enough of a problem still that I'd choose a P-MVA like the VX2025WM over it any day. Again though I'm not sure how prominent the effect is on the L204WT so I can't say for sure.

 

[mikuto]

First of all, many thanks to xtknight for such an amazing guide. And all the information gathered in this thread... incredibly useful; you can hardly find anything like it anywhere else (and surely not in one place); everybody who contributed to it did a great job.

And now for a quick question - you knew I had to have one, didn't you: I've noticed NEC has introduced new models for the GX2 series, named GX2 Pro. There's basically a 70GX2 Pro, a 90GX2 Pro, and a 20WGX2 Pro - at least that's what's available in Europe. While it's pretty clear they changed the panel in the 17'' and 19'' models, I can't find out what changed for the 20'' one. The specs for 20WGX2 and 20WGX2 Pro are identical, and I mean *identical* word for word, but there's a price difference of roughly 70 EUR between the two at a shop that has both. Could it be just that the older model is at end of life, and they want to get rid of it from their stocks, but in practice they would be the exact same monitor, with just a different name on top, to keep it in sync with the naming of the lower models?

Basically, I'd be interested to know if anybody has any information about the new Pro models, as I'm looking to buy both the 19'' and the 20'' versions - for different uses, of course.

Cheers.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: mikuto
First of all, many thanks to xtknight for such an amazing guide. And all the information gathered in this thread... incredibly useful; you can hardly find anything like it anywhere else (and surely not in one place); everybody who contributed to it did a great job.

And now for a quick question - you knew I had to have one, didn't you: I've noticed NEC has introduced new models for the GX2 series, named GX2 Pro. There's basically a 70GX2 Pro, a 90GX2 Pro, and a 20WGX2 Pro - at least that's what's available in Europe. While it's pretty clear they changed the panel in the 17'' and 19'' models, I can't find out what changed for the 20'' one. The specs for 20WGX2 and 20WGX2 Pro are identical, and I mean *identical* word for word, but there's a price difference of roughly 70 EUR between the two at a shop that has both. Could it be just that the older model is at end of life, and they want to get rid of it from their stocks, but in practice they would be the exact same monitor, with just a different name on top, to keep it in sync with the naming of the lower models?

Basically, I'd be interested to know if anybody has any information about the new Pro models, as I'm looking to buy both the 19'' and the 20'' versions - for different uses, of course.

Cheers.

With regards to the NEC GX2/Pro moniker, this will answer your question: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/content/nec_press.htm#gx2%20pro

Basically the bezel changed and it has a new soundbar (maybe). It is just to keep it consistent with the other introduced Pro models.

 

[mikuto]

Originally posted by: xtknight
With regards to the NEC GX2/Pro moniker, this will answer your question: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/content/nec_press.htm#gx2%20pro

Basically the bezel changed and it has a new soundbar (maybe). It is just to keep it consistent with the other introduced Pro models.

Thanks, xtknight. I guess that settles it for the 20'' model - I get to save my 70 euros .

Any idea if the new 19'' panel is of the same general quality as the old one? I'm looking to buy it for somebody that seems to be very sensitive to motion artifacts. Although it's not going to be used for gaming, there will be lots of scrolling on the screen - large technical documents, drawings and text - and of course the occasional photo and movie. I figured I should get a fast panel to minimize any ghosting, but I would really hate to find out that the faster advertised 2 ms response time actually resulted in overdrive-related errors.

Another thing I'd be very interested about is how the vertical viewing angles of the 90GX2 compare to the Samsung 940BF. Could they be any better, by any chance (wishful thinking at work here)? I'm asking because I didn't get to see the NEC panel in action yet, but I've seen the Samsung, and the vertical angles (especially negative) are ridiculously narrow, to the point of making it hardly usable in my opinion. I know that's how the TN technology works, but I'm still hoping some are not as bad as the others. What makes it worse for the Samsung is that it cannot be tilted at negative angles, while the NEC seems to have this ability (-5 degrees I think, right?) - this would help a little, but a wider angle would help even more .

 

[ghoti]

Hello again xt,

I still haven't pulled the trigger on a new monitor. A few more questions:

What is the downside of a non-HDCP-compliant monitor if one is going to run VISTA? I was looking at the Viewsonic VP930B. I see it's said to be probably non-compliant (HDCP).

I'm puzzled about the response time specs shown in the Guide -- some specify a measure (e.g., g2g) and some don't -- how do the VP930B response times stack up against the recommended 'Gaming' monitors?

How do you think the VP930B would be for gaming? (I do a fair amount of gaming tho not much FPS; I also do a lot of 'browsing' and a bit of office work; also expect to watch an occasional movie).

I've read a number of reviews now for the 20WMGX2. and aside from the $$$, I see criticism of that monitor's alleged inability to handle 4:3, and also the problem of annoying screen reflection in a lighted room.

Comments? and thanks much for all your work and input.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: mikuto
Thanks, xtknight. I guess that settles it for the 20'' model - I get to save my 70 euros .

Any idea if the new 19'' panel is of the same general quality as the old one? I'm looking to buy it for somebody that seems to be very sensitive to motion artifacts. Although it's not going to be used for gaming, there will be lots of scrolling on the screen - large technical documents, drawings and text - and of course the occasional photo and movie. I figured I should get a fast panel to minimize any ghosting, but I would really hate to find out that the faster advertised 2 ms response time actually resulted in overdrive-related errors.

We'll just have to wait until it's reviewed by a trusted site. The faster response time may very well result in what you say but it could also very well not (well that was helpful, wasn't it?) Well if you want my guess, NEC will be able to "overdrive responsibly" and reduce the perceived response time a little bit (maybe by a millisecond or two). Or maybe they're just changing the ratings to catch up with the Joneses (Samsung, ViewSonic). Bottom line is don't even bother waiting for those models if it's for the reduced response time. If you still notice blur on the TN LCDs (and you should if you have fair to good eyesight) then it's your retinal persistence at work. Either it will bother you or it won't. I could game on a 25 ms LCD and not be bothered for the most part in Wolfenstein or Quake (big blocky object games), whereas if I tried that LCD in Battlefield 2 while flying it would kill me. Even on the 20WGX2 it's still hard to focus on small objects in motion in BF2.

Another thing I'd be very interested about is how the vertical viewing angles of the 90GX2 compare to the Samsung 940BF. Could they be any better, by any chance (wishful thinking at work here)?

Nooooo idea. They could be better if NEC put some sort of film over it, but I think Samsung does that at the TFT-LCD module factory anyway so that all products would be using the same film.

I'm asking because I didn't get to see the NEC panel in action yet, but I've seen the Samsung, and the vertical angles (especially negative) are ridiculously narrow, to the point of making it hardly usable in my opinion. I know that's how the TN technology works, but I'm still hoping some are not as bad as the others. What makes it worse for the Samsung is that it cannot be tilted at negative angles, while the NEC seems to have this ability (-5 degrees I think, right?) - this would help a little, but a wider angle would help even more .

I don't know about the tilting but my 20WGX2 can't tilt at all. I think tilting would only offset the problem; still, the top and bottom parts of the screen are inconsistent with each other. Why don't you look into a panel like the Samsung 971P or Dell 1907FPV? The 1907FPV is true 8-bit as I just found out (and a listing for it in the Recommendations may follow). Plus they use VA (vertical alignment) tech so you don't have that viewing angle shiftiness and ununiformity of TN panels.

 

[xtknight]

I got an email from "glv" about info on Samsung's 19" panels.

LTM190E4-L02 from samsung electronics LCD division can present 16.7M color depth(true 8bit).

For reference,

LTM190E4-L31 : 250nit, 25ms, 1500:1, 16.7M(6bit+Hi-FRC)

LTM190E4-L03 : 300nit, 8ms(G/G) 1000:1, 16.7M(true 8bit)

 

[scaaven2]

The LG L204WT wouldn't be a bad choice.

I bought it at CC yesterday and I am blown away. This thing rocks my 21" CRT, i think it was getting a little blurry anyways. I don't notice any of the pitfalls I've read about TN panels with the viewing angles and color reproduction. Looking at it from the extreme corner doesn't change the appearance at all.

World of warcraft looks amazing in 1680x1050 with my evga 6800gt. thanks xt

 

[mikuto]

Originally posted by: xtknight
Even on the 20WGX2 it's still hard to focus on small objects in motion in BF2.

But still, judging by what I've learned so far, it looks like the 20WGX2 is the best non-TN gaming monitor one can buy at the moment, so it's not like there's much choice, unless you can live with the limitations of TN, correct?

I don't know about the tilting but my 20WGX2 can't tilt at all.

Whaaat? Now you're scaring me :Q. You mean the screen stays at the same, frozen, angle and there's nothing you can do to tilt it, at least backwards?

I think tilting would only offset the problem; still, the top and bottom parts of the screen are inconsistent with each other.

True, but in practice I've found the inconsistency to be much less annoying when viewing the screen at a 90 degrees angle. Once you move away from that position, even by a few degrees, upwards or (especially) downwards, some areas that used to be 'not too bad' suddenly become 'horrible', and even the ones that were 'good' change to 'quite bad', if you know what I mean. Tilting could help you adjust the monitor depending on how you're sitting at the desk, so that you stay close to that 90 degrees sweet spot (if you can call it that...).

Why don't you look into a panel like the Samsung 971P or Dell 1907FPV? The 1907FPV is true 8-bit as I just found out (and a listing for it in the Recommendations may follow). Plus they use VA (vertical alignment) tech so you don't have that viewing angle shiftiness and ununiformity of TN panels.

I was actually going to buy the 971P instead of the 20WGX2, but then came Engel and his review (don't get me wrong, I'm grateful for it). I was willing to put up with the possibly flimsy stand, the lack of standalone controls (hate that), the possibly visible dithering (I have good eyesight and I'm veery picky) and the slightly worse tones from a perpendicular view, but I was expecting excellent performance in all other categories. Now that there's a distinct possibility I'll notice other problems as well, it just doesn't seem worth the money anymore.

As for the Dell, I don't think it's available around here at the moment, and besides, I'm very reluctant to buy anything from that company, especially monitors, for a variety of reasons, of which I'm sure you know a few as well...

Another reason is that I was looking for something not that expensive as the smaller monitor, and the 940BF seemed to fit the bill, until I saw the angles. Now I think it could be worth paying extra for the 90GX2 if it's even slightly better. If that turns out not to be the case, I may just settle for the cheaper 940BF and be done with it.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: mikuto

Originally posted by: xtknight
Even on the 20WGX2 it's still hard to focus on small objects in motion in BF2.

But still, judging by what I've learned so far, it looks like the 20WGX2 is the best non-TN gaming monitor one can buy at the moment, so it's not like there's much choice, unless you can live with the limitations of TN, correct?

Correct.

I don't know about the tilting but my 20WGX2 can't tilt at all.

Whaaat? Now you're scaring me :Q. You mean the screen stays at the same, frozen, angle and there's nothing you can do to tilt it, at least backwards?

I lied. Apparently it tilts quite a considerable amount (maybe 15 degrees).

I think tilting would only offset the problem; still, the top and bottom parts of the screen are inconsistent with each other.

True, but in practice I've found the inconsistency to be much less annoying when viewing the screen at a 90 degrees angle. Once you move away from that position, even by a few degrees, upwards or (especially) downwards, some areas that used to be 'not too bad' suddenly become 'horrible', and even the ones that were 'good' change to 'quite bad', if you know what I mean. Tilting could help you adjust the monitor depending on how you're sitting at the desk, so that you stay close to that 90 degrees sweet spot (if you can call it that...).

Why don't you look into a panel like the Samsung 971P or Dell 1907FPV? The 1907FPV is true 8-bit as I just found out (and a listing for it in the Recommendations may follow). Plus they use VA (vertical alignment) tech so you don't have that viewing angle shiftiness and ununiformity of TN panels.

I was actually going to buy the 971P instead of the 20WGX2, but then came Engel and his review (don't get me wrong, I'm grateful for it). I was willing to put up with the possibly flimsy stand, the lack of standalone controls (hate that), the possibly visible dithering (I have good eyesight and I'm veery picky) and the slightly worse tones from a perpendicular view, but I was expecting excellent performance in all other categories. Now that there's a distinct possibility I'll notice other problems as well, it just doesn't seem worth the money anymore.

971P over the 20WMGX2...? No way.

As for the Dell, I don't think it's available around here at the moment, and besides, I'm very reluctant to buy anything from that company, especially monitors, for a variety of reasons, of which I'm sure you know a few as well...

Another reason is that I was looking for something not that expensive as the smaller monitor, and the 940BF seemed to fit the bill, until I saw the angles. Now I think it could be worth paying extra for the 90GX2 if it's even slightly better. If that turns out not to be the case, I may just settle for the cheaper 940BF and be done with it.

I'd recommend either the 90GX2 or 20WMGX2...nothing less. Maybe the VP930b, but I don't know how it compares to the 90GX2. The VP930b, with its updated panel, is probably a better choice. And you don't get all the downfalls of TN tech. OTOH, the 90GX2 has a glossy panel. Or you could just get the 20WMGX2 which whips both of them into shape.

 

[thecompguru]

xtknight, after much debate i decided to try out the lg l20wt from circuit city, it was 70$ off this week so i jumped on it. Got 2 like i wanted, didnt come with dvi cables... bit odd since they support hdcp(ordered some). They look great though even right now without the dvi, however, i do have the one question. Set them both up to identical settings on the monitors, and configured there color with nvidias display optimization wizard a few times, and regardless of that, i have one monitor that looks a bit more blue than the other. Its hard to tell which one is truely the right shades of grey when displaying grey and whites and such, but i think one is just more blue than it should be. How do i know which is correct, how to i calibrate it better (do i need adjust the colors on the monitor itself, and if so, in refrence to what). I feel like i shouldnt have to manually adjust the colors... My thought though.. is they should look identical, is one defective or is this normal. Thanks

 

[mikuto]

Originally posted by: xtknight
I lied. Apparently it tilts quite a considerable amount (maybe 15 degrees).

Phew!... Yeah, looking more carefully through the User's Guide, they are saying it can tilt 30 degrees upwards and 5 downwards. Maybe it will help; I'll have to find a shop where I can get a good look at the 90GX2; I'll report my findings regarding the viewing angles.

971P over the 20WMGX2...? No way.

I does look that way at the moment, indeed. But a few weeks ago... And then there's the fact that I'm not that enthusiastic about the whole new Wide fashion. I will be watching movies on it, but not in such high quality to really matter if they have some black bands on the top and bottom. I will be playing games, but the truth is I only have time to play one at the moment, and that's BF2, which doesn't quite support wide screen (you can either have the image stretched, and I *hate* that, or hack the config files, and then you'll get booted from all online servers, 'cause that stupid Punkbuster thing sees your greater field of view as a hack ). And for general office work and programming, a 4x3 or even 5x4 could be better - at least that's what I'm used to.

Anyway... It really looks like 20WGX2 is the way to go, wide and all, so I'll probably make the leap pretty soon.

I'd recommend either the 90GX2 or 20WMGX2...nothing less. Maybe the VP930b, but I don't know how it compares to the 90GX2. The VP930b, with its updated panel, is probably a better choice. And you don't get all the downfalls of TN tech. OTOH, the 90GX2 has a glossy panel. Or you could just get the 20WMGX2 which whips both of them into shape.

I've been looking for the rev. 3 VP930b's around here, and couldn't find any .

I mentioned it briefly in my first post - I'm actually looking to buy two monitors, for two different computers with two different usage patterns. One's most likely going to be the 20WGX2, for my main machine. The other one needs to be cheaper and smaller - a standard 19'' size - that's where the 90GX2 would come in.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: ghoti
Hello again xt,

I still haven't pulled the trigger on a new monitor. A few more questions:

What is the downside of a non-HDCP-compliant monitor if one is going to run VISTA? I was looking at the Viewsonic VP930B. I see it's said to be probably non-compliant (HDCP).

The downside is that you can't watch encrypted HD content (legally) like Blu-Ray or HD-DVD. However, choosing one monitor over another over HDCP is useless IMO unless you really want to watch movies on a 19" screen.

I'm puzzled about the response time specs shown in the Guide -- some specify a measure (e.g., g2g) and some don't -- how do the VP930B response times stack up against the recommended 'Gaming' monitors?

The ratings may be confusing although the monitors are listed in the proper order in terms of performance. The first one is the fastest in the gaming category, and the first ones in the gaming/multimedia category are also among the fastest. The VP930b is maybe twice or more as slow as the fastest, so that would be roughly 15 ms, but that's still great.

How do you think the VP930B would be for gaming? (I do a fair amount of gaming tho not much FPS; I also do a lot of 'browsing' and a bit of office work; also expect to watch an occasional movie).

It'd definitely be among the best for gaming (certainly the new rev that fixed the overdrive problems).

I've read a number of reviews now for the 20WMGX2. and aside from the $$$, I see criticism of that monitor's alleged inability to handle 4:3, and also the problem of annoying screen reflection in a lighted room.

Comments? and thanks much for all your work and input.

The VP930b's DSP doesn't have scaling options either so if you were comparing the two that would be a moot point. But yes, the reflections annoy some.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: thecompguru
xtknight, after much debate i decided to try out the lg l20wt from circuit city, it was 70$ off this week so i jumped on it. Got 2 like i wanted, didnt come with dvi cables... bit odd since they support hdcp(ordered some). They look great though even right now without the dvi, however, i do have the one question. Set them both up to identical settings on the monitors, and configured there color with nvidias display optimization wizard a few times, and regardless of that, i have one monitor that looks a bit more blue than the other. Its hard to tell which one is truely the right shades of grey when displaying grey and whites and such, but i think one is just more blue than it should be. How do i know which is correct, how to i calibrate it better (do i need adjust the colors on the monitor itself, and if so, in refrence to what). I feel like i shouldnt have to manually adjust the colors... My thought though.. is they should look identical, is one defective or is this normal. Thanks

Good choice on the L204WT.

It is indeed normal for two units of the same model to look different. They can look even more different if you bought them a few months apart due to usage patterns and factory revisions.

Just reduce the blue on one monitor then. Go in the color settings and select user, I'm sure you can adjust it. I have articles and tools on my website for calibration, also.

 

[mikuto]

Originally posted by: ghoti
I've read a number of reviews now for the 20WMGX2. and aside from the $$$, I see criticism of that monitor's alleged inability to handle 4:3, and also the problem of annoying screen reflection in a lighted room.

Inability to handle 4:3? The following quote is from the User's Manual:

EXPANSION: Selects the zoom mode.
[*]FULL: The image is expanded to 1680 x 1050, regardless of the resolution.
[*]ASPECT: The image is expanded without changing the aspect ratio.
[*]OFF: The image is not expanded.
NOTE: EXPANSION is available only resolution under 1280 x 1024.

The above features look like full support of 4x3 or 5x4 screen sizes to me.

From what I read in the review on widescreengamingforum.com, 'under 1280 x 1024' supposedly means 'at or below 1280 x 1024', not strictly below; and I hope that's how it is, since I'd like to be able to play BF2 in 1:1 1280x1024 - I don't mind the black bars at the edges of the screen, I just want the pixels to be perfect.

xtknight, would it be possible to confirm the above, please? By the way, what's your screen configuration for BF2 (sorry if you answered these questions before, couldn't find them)?

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: ghoti



I've read a number of reviews now for the 20WMGX2. and aside from the $$$, I see criticism of that monitor's alleged inability to handle 4:3, and also the problem of annoying screen reflection in a lighted room.

Comments? and thanks much for all your work and input.

It can't handle scaling with DVI in unless you have a nVidia video card then it scales just fine. I've shown photos of this scaling in this thread. Buy Nvidia.

As far as glare caused by Opticlear I never see it but then I don't have lights facing monitor and it's benefits are huge. It looks so good to the human eye because unlike ordinary matte coatings which disperses the light in all directions, Opticlear reflects the light in one direction exactly perpendicular to screen for super high contrast and vivid colors. The instruments in the reviews can't see this because they only look at a focal point and cover up the matte screen with the cup, but you will, big time. Unfortunatly Opticlear also reflects the incoming light as well in one direction exactly perpendicular to screen like a mirror which bugs some people, mainly reviewers who review these things in very bright office/warehouse settings. End users don't have a problem once they get their monitor set up in an optimal location.

Another thing is, even with lights facing the monitor, which you should avoid, you will only see the reflection on dark/black backgrounds not on lighter backgrounds.

It's really not an issue though any GX2 owners talk about - only the reviewers whine because they have a million watts of light around them. IMO they are being unfair and not representative of most peoples experience because of that.

If you want to talk about weaknesses of the GX2 like no height adjustment, pivot, crappy fake aluminum looking Bezel vs. apples real aluminum, small size, brick like structure from the side which is not very elegant, some cases of back light bleed cause panels is pushed too tight against that plastic frame, etc I'm willing to entertain it but glare and scaling are non issues IMO.

 

[Zebo]

xtknight - have you read the review of NEC's LCD2690WUXi at BEHARDWARE? Best color reproduction monitor they tested with wide gamut CCFL tubes. Even better than NEC's $5000 LED monitor...Perhaps it should make it's way to the image professionals list...

 

[ghoti]

Thanks xt and thanks Zebo.

I was going to get an 8800GTX, so if Zebo is right, that nVidia card would obviate the problem with the 20WMGX2's lack of scaling. Still BIG $, though. I am still looking at the Viewsonic VP930B. xtknight says (just above) that the VP930b also lacks scaling options. That is a BIG problem as far as I am concerned. I don't mind black bars, but I want the proportions to be perfect. Will the NVidia card allow scaling (say for widescreen input) for the VP930b (which is, I guess, 4:3)?

Thanks for the help.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: mikuto

Originally posted by: ghoti
I've read a number of reviews now for the 20WMGX2. and aside from the $$$, I see criticism of that monitor's alleged inability to handle 4:3, and also the problem of annoying screen reflection in a lighted room.

Inability to handle 4:3? The following quote is from the User's Manual:

EXPANSION: Selects the zoom mode.
[*]FULL: The image is expanded to 1680 x 1050, regardless of the resolution.
[*]ASPECT: The image is expanded without changing the aspect ratio.
[*]OFF: The image is not expanded.
NOTE: EXPANSION is available only resolution under 1280 x 1024.

The above features look like full support of 4x3 or 5x4 screen sizes to me.

With DVI, I can confirm that I can not get EXPANSION options when sending a resolution of 1280x1024, 1024x768, or 800x600 to the LCD. I confirmed that the LCD was receiving an untouched signal by using the GPU driver (force monitor scaling) and by the monitor's OSD. It doesn't work for me in DVI-PC or DVI-HD mode, either. There may have been a revision to the NEC 20WMGX2.

From what I read in the review on widescreengamingforum.com, 'under 1280 x 1024' supposedly means 'at or below 1280 x 1024', not strictly below; and I hope that's how it is, since I'd like to be able to play BF2 in 1:1 1280x1024 - I don't mind the black bars at the edges of the screen, I just want the pixels to be perfect.

xtknight, would it be possible to confirm the above, please? By the way, what's your screen configuration for BF2 (sorry if you answered these questions before, couldn't find them)?

I don't play BF2, but when I did I used +szx 1680 +szy 1050, and that's all. Looked great to me. If you have NVIDIA drivers you can scale any way you want.

 

[mikuto]

Originally posted by: xtknight
With DVI, I can confirm that I can not get EXPANSION options when sending a resolution of 1280x1024, 1024x768, or 800x600 to the LCD. I confirmed that the LCD was receiving an untouched signal by using the GPU driver (force monitor scaling) and by the monitor's OSD. It doesn't work for me in DVI-PC or DVI-HD mode, either. There may have been a revision to the NEC 20WMGX2.

Ohhh... bummer. But thanks a lot for the information, xtknight. I do have a 7800GS, so that should work, but it still feels wrong to have to hack around to get 1:1. Scaling, maybe I would understand, but just placing a native image in the middle of a bigger matrix of pixels... I can't believe they couldn't be bothered to write a couple more lines of code in that firmware.

I don't play BF2, but when I did I used +szx 1680 +szy 1050, and that's all. Looked great to me.

That would mean stretching a 4x3 image to 16x10; I don't think I could stand it. I know many people are not bothered by it, but whenever I see a circle turned oval, it drives me up the wall. I just looked at the screenshot on widescreengamingforum.com and... UGH! It's fascinating how different the impression can be from one individual to another.