LCD Buyer's Guide

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Zebo
xtknight - have you read the review of NEC's LCD2690WUXi at BEHARDWARE? Best color reproduction monitor they tested with wide gamut CCFL tubes. Even better than NEC's $5000 LED monitor...Perhaps it should make it's way to the image professionals list...

I don't see anywhere where it said it was better than the $5000 reference NEC. It actually didn't look all that amazing. But I'm sure it's better than 99% of the stuff out there still. I'm sure it's pretty awesome even considering...

 

[Avalon]

Xtknight, have you heard anything about the Acer AL2616Wd? It seems to be new, and is a 26", 1920x1200, 178/178 degree, supposedly 16.7mil color LCD with 5ms GTG response. I'm seeing it for sale for around $750, about the same as similar spec'd 24" monitors. Doesn't appear to be a TN panel with those viewing angles!

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Avalon
Xtknight, have you heard anything about the Acer AL2616Wd? It seems to be new, and is a 26", 1920x1200, 178/178 degree, supposedly 16.7mil color LCD with 5ms GTG response. I'm seeing it for sale for around $750, about the same as similar spec'd 24" monitors. Doesn't appear to be a TN panel with those viewing angles!

Yup. I'm betting it's a pretty good screen for the price. It's got to be a AUO P-MVA.

I will probably list it as there aren't many 26" LCDs. I'm also looking for the best 24" LCD, which seems to be a dispute between the BenQ FP241W, the Dell 2407WFP, and Gateway FP 24".

 

[spincut]

i noticed the guide hasnt been updated recently? (since the new LG and Samsungs just came out and i was interested in seeing how they stacked up).

Basically i was interested in the NEC 20WMGX2 but the glossy screen kind of throws me off and i really dont need all the extra features that make the american version possibly so expensive (would rather have had the non "m" european version).

then of course the next one down was the Dell 2007WFP but i simply cannot tolerate the lottery and the flickering nonsense.

and unfortunately that seemed about it for widescreen IPS panels.

anyhow not sure what the next best thing was but i noticed that the new Samsung and LG widescreens just came out and was curious how they compared as gaming monitors, since i cannot find reviews anywhere.

the LG l206/l226 (20'/22') and the Samsung 206bw/226bw (20"/22").

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: spincut
i noticed the guide hasnt been updated recently? (since the new LG and Samsungs just came out and i was interested in seeing how they stacked up).

Basically i was interested in the NEC 20WMGX2 but the glossy screen kind of throws me off and i really dont need all the extra features that make the american version possibly so expensive (would rather have had the non "m" european version).

then of course the next one down was the Dell 2007WFP but i simply cannot tolerate the lottery and the flickering nonsense.

and unfortunately that seemed about it for widescreen IPS panels.

anyhow not sure what the next best thing was but i noticed that the new Samsung and LG widescreens just came out and was curious how they compared as gaming monitors, since i cannot find reviews anywhere.

the LG l206/l226 (20'/22') and the Samsung 206bw/226bw (20"/22").

This is the exact reason I haven't listed them yet. I have no idea about them (and I don't actually review LCDs, I just collate info and research). If I recall, those were the LCDs that boasted insane contrast ratios like 3000:1. I don't really think they're that much better to be honest.

 

[spincut]

and maybe they arent "that" much better as often the ratios are exxagerated between static and dynamic and whatnot, but even still "not that much" is still possibly better and i'd want to see how they compare to other top performers, since they may even the playing field a little bit, considering i exhausted the only 2 feasible ips options.

 

[Painman]

Originally posted by: ghoti
Thanks xt and thanks Zebo.

I was going to get an 8800GTX, so if Zebo is right, that nVidia card would obviate the problem with the 20WMGX2's lack of scaling. Still BIG $, though. I am still looking at the Viewsonic VP930B. xtknight says (just above) that the VP930b also lacks scaling options. That is a BIG problem as far as I am concerned. I don't mind black bars, but I want the proportions to be perfect. Will the NVidia card allow scaling (say for widescreen input) for the VP930b (which is, I guess, 4:3)?

Thanks for the help.

ghoti, be aware that driver level scaling is currently broken for the 8800. No telling if/when nVidia will rectify this (a pain, since this is one of the reasons I switched to green).

 

[BassBomb]

Just thought i'd let people know...


Burn-in (Image Persistance) is existant on the 20WMGX2. I noticed it on certain tones on my screen the other day. It started to bug me. It wasn't too bad. But I could see the imprint of the MSN window, notably the display pictures.

I will see how it looks tonight as NEC reccomends turning the monitor off for as long as the image was there.

I am worried at how bad this could get (as I have onyl ahd this for a week so far).

 

[Painman]

Originally posted by: BassBomb
Just thought i'd let people know...


Burn-in (Image Persistance) is existant on the 20WMGX2. I noticed it on certain tones on my screen the other day. It started to bug me. It wasn't too bad. But I could see the imprint of the MSN window, notably the display pictures.

I will see how it looks tonight as NEC reccomends turning the monitor off for as long as the image was there.

I am worried at how bad this could get (as I have onyl ahd this for a week so far).

Mine (when I had it) exhibited some of this right out of the box. There was a very noticeable imprint of Windows XP min/max/close buttons along the top and a couple inches from the rightmost corner. And it came out of a pristine, factory sealed box. I'd like to think that this was a fluke and not indicative of NEC's QC overall.

 

[xtknight]

I guess I am just lucky. I haven't had any trouble at all with burn-in on my unit.

 

[Zebo]

Image persistance? Never heard of this from 100s of owners.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: Zebo
xtknight - have you read the review of NEC's LCD2690WUXi at BEHARDWARE? Best color reproduction monitor they tested with wide gamut CCFL tubes. Even better than NEC's $5000 LED monitor...Perhaps it should make it's way to the image professionals list...

I don't see anywhere where it said it was better than the $5000 reference NEC. It actually didn't look all that amazing. But I'm sure it's better than 99% of the stuff out there still. I'm sure it's pretty awesome even considering...

Look again
http://www.behardware.com/articles/648-...ync-lcd2690wuxi-the-first-26-inch.html

It's the only monitor with complete RGB inside it's spectrum and covers more of the ISO than even the vaunted Nec LCD2180WG LED

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: Zebo
xtknight - have you read the review of NEC's LCD2690WUXi at BEHARDWARE? Best color reproduction monitor they tested with wide gamut CCFL tubes. Even better than NEC's $5000 LED monitor...Perhaps it should make it's way to the image professionals list...

I don't see anywhere where it said it was better than the $5000 reference NEC. It actually didn't look all that amazing. But I'm sure it's better than 99% of the stuff out there still. I'm sure it's pretty awesome even considering...

Look again
http://www.behardware.com/articles/648-...ync-lcd2690wuxi-the-first-26-inch.html

It's the only monitor with complete RGB inside it's spectrum and covers more of the ISO than even the vaunted Nec LCD2180WG LED

Those don't really tell the whole story though. CCFL backlights in general have trouble with the primaries even if they reach a wider gamut.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/other/display/lcd-parameters_15.html (see page 15 and 16)

 

[Painman]

I'm giving serious thought about picking up one of these new NECs, but I'd like to see this issue of whether it was tested @ BE with overdrive on or off resolved.

The more I sit in front of this GW 24" the less I like it... it's an "ok" panel i guess but I'm becoming more aware of its flaws. "ok" isn't going to cut it. So much for my foray into consumer grade stuff, but I wanted to at least give it a fair shake. 2x90WUXi sure comes with one hell of a pricetag, but they aren't halfassed. These new ones do come with HDCP, HW scaling and other options I want. It's plainly overkill for what I'm going to do with it, but I would trust one of these to last 5+ years whereas I don't have the same faith in this GW.

A few of the 26ers have trickled through the channel already, so more intel on them shouldn't be far off.

 

[dennilfloss]

Have you considered the BenQ?

 

[Painman]

Originally posted by: dennilfloss
Have you considered the BenQ?

I've thought about it, I know I can order one from NCIX Canada and be guaranteed the latest firmware. But I prefer not to buy display tech "sight unseen". I'd have to play around with an MVA unit for a while and see if I like the tech before I'd commit to the BenQ.

I already know what IPS looks like though.

 

[Zebo]

Pain they obviously didn't have the overdrive option on... First of all NEC doesnt lie like other manufactures do, especially on thier 90 series. Second, they did'nt even even mention on/off as an option leading me to believe they left it off. Instead of "forgetting to add 1 one in front of the six response" like they claim they forgot to turn it on - talk about foot in mouth disease. Third, without overdrive thats exactly how S-IPS's do, about 16ms. Another thing that bugs me about the review they didn't even test the internal calibration feature, which is one of the biggest features of this monitor, but instead bitched about color out of the box. Only getting beautiful after *manual* calibration. BE is definitely slacking or maybe it's just poor translation?

Anyway I would wait for another review and until you can find the manual to indeed find what the default overdrive setting is out of the box - my bet is off, however $1399 is a lot pain to be guessing.

Oh and the dot pitch is too high for my taste or I would have one already...well plus it has no Opticlear.. My huckleberry comes in the form of 24WGX2 later this year.

 

[Painman]

Here's the 2690 manual - I was digging through it last night. All it says about the Overdrive selection is:

"Turns the OVER DRIVE function on or off. Over Drive may reduce blurring that occurs in some moving images. When Over Drive is on, response time is improved."

...which ain't much. I'll wait for a bit more intel before I pull the trigger. These are the panels I've been drooling at all along, even though I'd probably never make use of their "big feature", the programmable LUTs. I don't feel like paying NEC another $400 for access to them a standard colorimeter should suffice for my usage needs.

 

[Zebo]

Good lord that's a lot of settings in the advaced menu.. I'd just get way to confused like with some of these DFI motherboards today Can spend a week before you get memory dialed in. I bet its the same thing.

I can't imagine they'd leave it in the on position by default because of who these monitors are geared for but who knows...

And yes for 1400 smackeroos you better be sure

 

[Painman]

Ah, here we go. I knew this wouldn't take long

Originally posted by: PostPCMan
Overdrive is off.

This feller over @ Hardforum has one on his desk. They're trying to get him to run PixPerAn on that baby, he has to hook it up to a PC first.

Awaiting results

 

[Zebo]

Woot!

Here is also a bit of good news from the NEC rep over there regarding the NEC 24WMGX2 glossy gamers special:

"It is hard to tell this far off (August/September release) but I do know it will be priced much more competitively within its category than the 20WMGX2 is."


That means cheap like $700-$900 like most other 24's are right?

 

[n7]

Bah i'm kinda glad i didn't wait [for the NEC 1920x1200 Opticlear].

I had heard April, & now it's autumn 2007.

As much as i love Opticlear, i have no regrets over my Dell.
I should really take some pics of how well it displays lower resololuion video so well & runs games in lower resolutions so nicely with centered mode.

 

[Zebo]

Yes you should! Dells 30" is one of the best!! I'm looking at dells new rev (92% NTSC and faster) but don't want to buy two high end graphics cards every 12 months to push an astounding 4.1 million pixels. So howz it look @19x12 and 16x12 1:1?

 

[n7]

Originally posted by: Zebo
Yes you should! Dells 30" is one of the best!! I'm looking at dells new rev (92% NTSC and faster) but don't want to buy two high end graphics cards every 12 months to push an astounding 4.1 million pixels. So howz it look @19x12 and 16x12 1:1?

If 1:1 means centered with black bars, then it looks absolutely perfect.

I cannot tolerate stretching/distortion in any way, so while it did look okay @ 1920x1200 stretched across the whole display, i quickly switched to what ATi calls "Centered Timings", & now it just runs whatever resolution i want w/ black bars around the sides

I have also discovered that most of the few games i play (fps/some racing) don't even have proper widescreen support.

It's highly annoying to me to set the game to a "higher" 2560x1600 resolution only to see the game running @ what's effectively 2048x1536 stretched :frown:

So for the most part, i've been running things @ 2048x1536 centered, with my online multiplayer games @ 1600x1200 so i can keep eye candy high & still have high fps.


The most amazing thing has been how it handles video content though.

I found that w/o using upscaling stuff like FFDShow etc, DVDs looks like ****** on my 1600x1200 204T/204B.

Yet somehow they look just as good or better on my 2560x1600 Dell

I was pretty much astounded with how good 480p video looked on it w/o any upscaling software, etc.

And of course, 720p/1080i stuff looks just awesome.
It is a tad funny to see VLC open in default size for 720p/1080i though, as it's so tiny compared to the full resolution can display.

I have a sh!tty 3.2 MP camera w/ poor pic-taking abilities, but i'll try to get some time to take some snapshots this weekend.

Here's a teaser of what my current setup is like (though it's since gotten much messier): Left-Middle-Right = Dell 3007WFP-Samsung 204T-Samsung 204B (ah teh h0rrible TN)

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: n7

Originally posted by: Zebo
Yes you should! Dells 30" is one of the best!! I'm looking at dells new rev (92% NTSC and faster) but don't want to buy two high end graphics cards every 12 months to push an astounding 4.1 million pixels. So howz it look @19x12 and 16x12 1:1?

If 1:1 means centered with black bars, then it looks absolutely perfect.

I cannot tolerate stretching/distortion in any way, so while it did look okay @ 1920x1200 stretched across the whole display, i quickly switched to what ATi calls "Centered Timings", & now it just runs whatever resolution i want w/ black bars around the sides

I have also discovered that most of the few games i play (fps/some racing) don't even have proper widescreen support.

It's highly annoying to me to set the game to a "higher" 2560x1600 resolution only to see the game running @ what's effectively 2048x1536 stretched :frown:

So for the most part, i've been running things @ 2048x1536 centered, with my online multiplayer games @ 1600x1200 so i can keep eye candy high & still have high fps.


The most amazing thing has been how it handles video content though.

I found that w/o using upscaling stuff like FFDShow etc, DVDs looks like ****** on my 1600x1200 204T/204B.

Yet somehow they look just as good or better on my 2560x1600 Dell

I was pretty much astounded with how good 480p video looked on it w/o any upscaling software, etc.

And of course, 720p/1080i stuff looks just awesome.
It is a tad funny to see VLC open in default size for 720p/1080i though, as it's so tiny compared to the full resolution can display.

I have a sh!tty 3.2 MP camera w/ poor pic-taking abilities, but i'll try to get some time to take some snapshots this weekend.

Here's a teaser of what my current setup is like (though it's since gotten much messier): Left-Middle-Right = Dell 3007WFP-Samsung 204T-Samsung 204B (ah teh h0rrible TN)

Oh man that is too cool :thumbsup: - TN's and PVA or not, having two twenties on portait and a whopping 30" S-IPS front and center... OMG I think I just had an accident.

A 19x12 shot would be most appreciated - no worries about fidelity here just the scale I want to see since it's the highest res I can game at comfortably and affordably.

Of course everything looks better on the Dell, it's an IPS. I don't care what this flaky reviewer claims over at places like BEHARDWARE and his "movie twinkling" ideas about IPS's followed by calling them weak movie displays - IPS uniform fast response combined with superior color at all angles own all. And "twinkling" diappears once you step away as you would when movie watching making it a non factor.

You know Its funny I used to do centered timings and I've described to peoples several times how to enable scaling (1:1 pixel mapping) with ATI's centered timings and they claim it doesn't work. Good to hear someone has it working. I wish I still had a ATI card to verify what I'm talking about but I know it worked!