LCD Buyer's Guide

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eljaye925

Senior member
Dec 22, 2002
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Could anyone tell me how my almost 3 year old 2001fp IPS panel stacks up against these newer non IPS panels like the LG226WT? And if a monitor such as the NEC LCD2070NX (IPS?) is better (at least on paper) than my 2001fp?

Mainly concerned with IQ and color reproductions.

Thanks,

L.J.

 

Cookie Monster

Diamond Member
May 7, 2005
5,161
32
86
Originally posted by: eljaye925
Could anyone tell me how my almost 3 year old 2001fp IPS panel stacks up against these newer non IPS panels like the LG226WT? And if a monitor such as the NEC LCD2070NX (IPS?) is better (at least on paper) than my 2001fp?

Mainly concerned with IQ and color reproductions.

Thanks,

L.J.

Im wondering the same thing. Like for instance, how would a samsung 971p go againest the LG in IQ?

 

Dashel

Senior member
Nov 5, 2003
226
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Another complicated decision... I'm looking to upgrade my Dell 2001FP as well. Initially I had thought a 22' monitor. Then I thought... go for it with the Dell 2407 since I love my 2001fp so much. Then moved on to the BenQ FP241W. Now, I'm wondering what would be the best value. I'm going to be using it for gaming, but this guide doesnt seem to have any reccomendations for a 24" gaming LCD?

 

shilatoe

Member
Mar 27, 2006
38
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Originally posted by: Dashel
Another complicated decision... I'm looking to upgrade my Dell 2001FP as well. Initially I had thought a 22' monitor. Then I thought... go for it with the Dell 2407 since I love my 2001fp so much. Then moved on to the BenQ FP241W. Now, I'm wondering what would be the best value. I'm going to be using it for gaming, but this guide doesnt seem to have any reccomendations for a 24" gaming LCD?

I have been researching 24" wides for the past week. One of the post helpful postings I have seen is the following:

http://www.bexox.com/showdown.htm

It does a side by side comparison of the BenQ FP241WZ vs. Dell 2407WFP-A04 vs. LG L246WP.
Personally, I'm leaning towards the LG b/c I can buy at a B&M and is much cheaper than the BenQ and has superior color to the Dell.
Good luck.
 

Dashel

Senior member
Nov 5, 2003
226
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Thanks for that shila, really good article. Not sure what B&M is, cant seem to find that exact LG model on pricegrabber, looks like the 245 is the same thing though. I'll look around some more.

Asthetically, I think the Dell looks the best by far. Meaning just the look of the actual monitor itself. BenQ coming in second there. Price wise Dell seems to come in cheapest as well. So i"m left with wondering if I'll need an HDMI port (not sure) and if the quality of the BenQ or LG is going to be noticably better to my eyes in gaming.

The Trusted Reviews articles on the Dell and BenQ are making me lean towards the BenQ though =p

http://www.trustedreviews.com/displays/...BenQ-FP241W-24in-Widescreen-Monitor/p1

http://www.trustedreviews.com/displays/...-Ultrasharp-2407WFP-24in-Widescreen/p1

 

BernardP

Golden Member
Jan 10, 2006
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Originally posted by: Dashel
Another complicated decision... I'm looking to upgrade my Dell 2001FP as well. Initially I had thought a 22' monitor. Then I thought... go for it with the Dell 2407 since I love my 2001fp so much. Then moved on to the BenQ FP241W. Now, I'm wondering what would be the best value. I'm going to be using it for gaming, but this guide doesnt seem to have any reccomendations for a 24" gaming LCD?
Value? Dell 2407 is better value than BenQ, especially since you have the option of waiting for one of their regular sales.

B&M is Brick and Mortar: physical store as opposed to webstore.


 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
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Originally posted by: Dashel
Another complicated decision... I'm looking to upgrade my Dell 2001FP as well. Initially I had thought a 22' monitor. Then I thought... go for it with the Dell 2407 since I love my 2001fp so much. Then moved on to the BenQ FP241W. Now, I'm wondering what would be the best value. I'm going to be using it for gaming, but this guide doesnt seem to have any reccomendations for a 24" gaming LCD?

Sure it does. I recommend the FP241W under multimedia (which BTW is also generally good-to-great for gaming), although 24" will never reach the strictly-speed gaming section.

BenQ has better colors although the input lag is still a tad worse than the Dell according to some sources. I would get the BenQ, personally anyway because of better colors but the Dell may be a better choice if you care more about speed (and price/return service).

Originally posted by: CK804
I recently placed an order for a Dell 2007FP due to the positive experiences I've had with their previous monitors, but I've been reading about all the issues with it and this is the first time I have ever crossed my fingers while waiting for a Dell monitor. Is there any way I can tell which panel I have (S-IPS or S-PVA)?

Yes, there's huge threads at HardForums about this that tell you everything you need to know about the panel lottery.

Originally posted by: eljaye925
Could anyone tell me how my almost 3 year old 2001fp IPS panel stacks up against these newer non IPS panels like the LG226WT? And if a monitor such as the NEC LCD2070NX (IPS?) is better (at least on paper) than my 2001fp?

Mainly concerned with IQ and color reproductions.

Thanks,

L.J.

The 2001FP may be better suited to photo editing in niche/professional situations but I think most people will enjoy using the L226WT more since it is brighter and easier to see, not to mention higher contrast. For most people go with the L226WT for photo editing. I just don't think the old IPS is too flattering in terms of contrast. If you were a professional you wouldn't mind losing that contrast but I think it would just irritate most casual photo editors.

If you're not photo editing, I think the L226WT is a fairly easy choice. I'm not sure that the 2070NX would be much better than your 2001FP. Try a rev 05 S-IPS like the HP LP2065 if you want better performance. The HP LP2065 would be superior to both the L226WT and 2001FP for most purposes.

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster
Im wondering the same thing. Like for instance, how would a samsung 971p go againest the LG in IQ?

I'd think the Samsung would deliver even higher contrast and more accurate colors. Too bad it's only 19" though.
 

eljaye925

Senior member
Dec 22, 2002
230
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Thanks for replying xtknight. I went looking (pricegrabber) for the HP LP2065 and ran into a puzzle. There are 2 versions of this monitor with the exact same specs as far as I can tell except one costs about $90 more than the other.

#1) EF227A8#ABA ~ $400

#2) EF227A4#ABA ~ $490

Is it safe to assume the A4 model is rev 05?

Thanks,

L.J.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
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71
Originally posted by: eljaye925
Thanks for replying xtknight. I went looking (pricegrabber) for the HP LP2065 and ran into a puzzle. There are 2 versions of this monitor with the exact same specs as far as I can tell except one costs about $90 more than the other.

#1) EF227A8#ABA ~ $400

#2) EF227A4#ABA ~ $490

Is it safe to assume the A4 model is rev 05?

Thanks,

L.J.

Yea there are two HP LP2065s models out there. Honestly I have no idea but I would be confident getting an S-IPS if the model is LP2065. In other words, either should be S-IPS and I have no idea what the difference is. Warranty period, probably (maybe one's Home and one's a Business model).
 

Tasiin

Member
Oct 11, 2005
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0
Well, after waffling back and forth on either keeping the 20WMGX2 or my CRT for almost a month now, I'm still not any closer to a decision -- and I've got about one day left to decide.

If I do decide to keep this, I had a couple more questions. Should I be concerned about the somewhat excessive orange bleeding (I think it's bleeding, anyhow) in the corners? It's been a while now, and it's still there. I'm not sure if it's even possible to get a "perfect" screen, but this may be unusually bad. It's completely unnoticeable on the desktop and in most semi-bright games, but against a black screen or a game with lots of dark colors (like Thief 2) it's pretty hard to miss. It's especially annoying when I need to run something that can only handle 4:3 resolutions in centered mode, as it shows up quite clearly against the black bars on the sides.

Also, I don't suppose there is anything that can be done about the reflectivity of the NEC, is there? I know that the coating improves the image quality and contrast, but it just seems a bit overkill against dark backgrounds. I had to turn off every single light in my room at night (and even the LCD on the computer next to me!) in order to avoid seeing a clear reflection of myself in the screen while playing Thief. My CRT was a bit reflective, but this thing seems to practically be a mirror sometimes.

Other than that, I'm probably going to end up keeping this unless by some miracle I can find another 19" Sony G420 CRT that's in decent shape somewhere. This is a pretty amazing monitor other than the couple things I mentioned before, but they're really getting to me, and this has become quite a difficult transition.

Hmm don't know what triple buffering would have to do with input lag.

From what I've read, the introduction of the extra frame buffer causes a small amount of input lag (or probably more appropriately named video lag). I couldn't tell you exactly why though, and there isn't a whole lot of information on it if you Google it. I figure it's probably not something that bothers most people, but any kind of delay irritates me now after using a CRT at 100Hz for so long. Mouse lag does seem to get slightly better to me when I disable triple buffering with v-sync enabled, however.

Anyhow, thanks a lot for all of your help so far. I hope I'll be able to come to some sort of decision tomorrow.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
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Originally posted by: Tasiin
Well, after waffling back and forth on either keeping the 20WMGX2 or my CRT for almost a month now, I'm still not any closer to a decision -- and I've got about one day left to decide.

If I do decide to keep this, I had a couple more questions. Should I be concerned about the somewhat excessive orange bleeding (I think it's bleeding, anyhow) in the corners? It's been a while now, and it's still there. I'm not sure if it's even possible to get a "perfect" screen, but this may be unusually bad. It's completely unnoticeable on the desktop and in most semi-bright games, but against a black screen or a game with lots of dark colors (like Thief 2) it's pretty hard to miss. It's especially annoying when I need to run something that can only handle 4:3 resolutions in centered mode, as it shows up quite clearly against the black bars on the sides.

I do have some orange-brownish bleeding in the corners, but I can only see it if I stand up and go to the right a bit. It might not even be bleeding, as S-IPS panels tend to have this characteristic (it's not a flaw) and perhaps the OptiClear coating exaggerates it. If you're seeing it straight-on it might be backlight bleeding.

I can, in very niche scenarios, see bleeding on this LCD in dark areas. It seems to happen most in really dark green pictures (black with 20 components of green or something like that).

Also, I don't suppose there is anything that can be done about the reflectivity of the NEC, is there? I know that the coating improves the image quality and contrast, but it just seems a bit overkill against dark backgrounds. I had to turn off every single light in my room at night (and even the LCD on the computer next to me!) in order to avoid seeing a clear reflection of myself in the screen while playing Thief. My CRT was a bit reflective, but this thing seems to practically be a mirror sometimes.

That's odd as I rarely, if ever, have that problem. At worst I can see a slight glare of myself. At night I see pretty much nothing. Maybe it's the way my lights are setup (but I do have a big window behind me also with sun seeping in through the curtains).

Other than that, I'm probably going to end up keeping this unless by some miracle I can find another 19" Sony G420 CRT that's in decent shape somewhere. This is a pretty amazing monitor other than the couple things I mentioned before, but they're really getting to me, and this has become quite a difficult transition.

Hmm don't know what triple buffering would have to do with input lag.

From what I've read, the introduction of the extra frame buffer causes a small amount of input lag (or probably more appropriately named video lag). I couldn't tell you exactly why though, and there isn't a whole lot of information on it if you Google it. I figure it's probably not something that bothers most people, but any kind of delay irritates me now after using a CRT at 100Hz for so long. Mouse lag does seem to get slightly better to me when I disable triple buffering with v-sync enabled, however.

I think I know what you mean. I have read that setting the "prerender frames" option on NVIDIA cards reduces input lag. It doesn't make much sense to me though as it would then seem that this is input lag at the video card level. Stuff like this is hard to test without equipment as it's so hard to notice (well, measure or quantize) in the first place.

Anyhow, thanks a lot for all of your help so far. I hope I'll be able to come to some sort of decision tomorrow.

I say keep it. You get used to flaws faster than you think, IMO. On the other hand I don't believe I discovered a single flaw with this LCD until about after a week of using it, and that is that the contrast isn't quite as high as I'd like and text isn't quite as easy to read. But whatever, I use this thing every day for text and I've calibrated it in such a way that I get quite a bit of contrast (700:1).
 

FireChicken

Senior member
Jun 6, 2006
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What is the conversion factor for changing g2g to typical response time. I saw it somewhere but I cant find it now
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
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Originally posted by: FireChicken
What is the conversion factor for changing g2g to typical response time. I saw it somewhere but I cant find it now

I saw someone throw out a value for it, but there is no value for it. It is a characteristic of the panel and can vary quite a bit depending on the overdrive algorithm. I recommend just going by what is recommended regularly if you want an LCD with a well-controlled overdrive and snappy response time. It's very much subjective now that overdrive chips are out there.
 

shilatoe

Member
Mar 27, 2006
38
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Well, it's here. The Nec 2470WNX is on sale at Dell for $815.

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/prod...spx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=A1127124

From the few specs shown I can't tell whether this will be a great gaming monitor or not. I was going to buy the LG L246 monitor this week but now I'm frozen in place wondering whether I should wait for more info on the NEC. I would love to hear some early reactions by first buyers as to their impressions. I need to know more as soon as possible.
Thanks to all who participate in this forum.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
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71
Originally posted by: harobikes333
Hi, I was wondering what you guys think of this monitor : ViewSonic - Q20WB Black 20" 5ms DVI Widescreen

Here is my planned setup

On a 1200~ budget.

Thanks a ton! Any help is greatly appreciated!

Mark

The Q20WB seems to be a typical 20" TN (and to tell you the truth I don't know much about it). If you could I would sacrifice a tad on another component if needed to get a more known model such as the Acer AL2051W (preferred) or Samsung 206BW. Saving $50 on a monitor can have severe consequences, while saving $50 on a CPU or hard disk really won't in a lot of cases.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
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Originally posted by: shilatoe
Well, it's here. The Nec 2470WNX is on sale at Dell for $815.

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/prod...spx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=A1127124

From the few specs shown I can't tell whether this will be a great gaming monitor or not. I was going to buy the LG L246 monitor this week but now I'm frozen in place wondering whether I should wait for more info on the NEC. I would love to hear some early reactions by first buyers as to their impressions. I need to know more as soon as possible.
Thanks to all who participate in this forum.

Thanks for letting me know about this...

I'll have to keep my eyes open for reviews on this NEC.

Originally posted by: trexpesto
westy 37 is $999 at the egg now

hey so is the sceptre x37sv

Prices updated.
 

Tasiin

Member
Oct 11, 2005
78
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Thanks xtknight, I decided to keep it. I'm going to dispose of my CRT today in order to remove any lingering temptation.

However (and I'm sure you'll be shocked), I had a couple more final questions about it. Not sure why I didn't mention this before, but I've noticed that when the monitor loses the signal to the computer it will emit a high pitched and actually quite loud whining sound for about 2-3 minutes before quieting down a bit, but it will continue for hours at a softer volume unless the monitor is turned off completely, which I've begun doing at night so I don't hear it all the way across the room when I'm sleeping.

Should I be concerned about this, or is it normal for the NEC? That in addition to the orange tint in the corners (which sounds as if it's not as bad on your model) makes me wonder if it might not be a good idea to exchange it for a replacement, just to be on the safe side. I've noticed that it also seems to have a slightly darker band in the middle of the screen against a completely gray background like my desktop.

This could also completely be my imagination as well or I'm just overly sensitive to it, but it seems like it might be flickering slightly. It's not like a CRT which I can see it easily on, but it doesn't seem to be 100% stable against a solid-color background it either. The LCD next to me on my other computer (an older 15" Sony SDM-HS53) seems to be doing it slightly as well against a blue background, so perhaps it's just normal. That monitor has developed an irritating problem though in which the pixels seem to sort of "ripple" a little bit at times, so I'm not entirely sure if it's not normal for that either.

Also, just out of curiosity, do you think this thread at HardForum might be applicable to the 20WMGX2 at all? Sounds like the original poster there was able to get a higher refresh rate on the now discontinued VX2025WM by using a dual-link DVI cable, as 1680x1050@75Hz apparently exceeds the 165Mhz bandwidth available to a single-link connection. Of course, it could simply be discarding some frames and still be internally running at 60Hz as you've said many LCDs do, but it might be interesting to give it a try.
 

mikuto

Member
Jan 17, 2007
40
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Well, it took a while, but it's finally here: my brand new 20WGX2 Pro. I got it a couple of weeks ago after a looong wait - it's been out of stock everywhere around here for a month or so. Actually, this is the second one; you can guess what happened to the first... but more on that later.

I promised I would give my impressions on this monitor, so here they are. I'll try not to repeat too many things that have been said before; if I don't touch upon a particular aspect, assume I'm in agreement with the majority, that is, it's awesome . Warning: unless you have a bit of time and lots of patience, you may want to skip over this post; if that's the case, I suggest you start spinning that scroll wheel, 'cause it's going to take you a while .

First of all, yes, you got that right - it has the new 'Pro' label. The panel as reported by the service menu is 'LPL LM201WE2 SLA1', which is what the main page of this guide reports. However, while searching for the way to access the service menu, I stumbled upon a forum post that seemed to indicate the 20WGX2 (non-Pro) model actually had a different panel. Here's the link:
http://forum.purepc.pl/index.php?s=&showtopic=208045&view=findpost&p=2442060
It appears to be a quote from yet another source, and it looks like it was translated from German. xtknight, could there be any truth in this? I tend to think not, but still, would it be worth for a few guys having the non-Pro model to look in the service menu and confirm the panel code?

Now back to the important stuff. The first thing I noticed when looking at this monitor was the panel uniformity - excellent. Then, the angles: you can look at a normal image from pretty much any reasonable direction and the variation is minimal to nonexistent. I don't know how anyone could go back to a TN panel after seeing one of these .

When displaying a full-screen black image, there are a few minor issues:
-Very slight backlight bleeding in the lower corners, hardly visible, unless under special conditions - low light, high brightness.
-A purple hue that appears quite quickly when you look at the screen from an angle. Just to be clear: this is only on a black image. Personally, I would have expected it to stay black for a wider angle. Interestingly, if you display an image with black bars on the sides, the purple hue only appears on the black areas when viewed from extreme directions, as expected. For this reason, I don't see how it could bother anyone in practice; I just found it intriguing. Something similar is also visible when viewing an all-purple image: at least to my eyes, the center of the image is very slightly more bluish than the sides. Mind you, this is nothing like viewing the same image on a TN, where you look at the screen and you have three completely different colors in different areas.
-The black level: while it's the best I've seen, it's still far from true black. Again, this is visible on a black screen, and under relatively low ambient light. In a room normally lit by natural light, it's very good - close enough to true black. When viewing an image with black bars around it, again, pitch black. It's just that under relatively low artificial light, a black screen is more like very dark very slightly bluish gray. Again, my expectations were probably set too high; I guess we'll have to wait for other panel technologies to get true black.

Gradients: very good, especially considering I don't have a colorimeter to really set things up properly. I'll try to get my hands on one, but until then, I've just set the important things as recommended here (Advanced DV Mode - Off, DV Mode - Standard, RGB - Native, Sharpness - default at 16.6%), and this is what I found:
-I can get nice and relatively uniform gradients with no banding, but only for very precise combinations of brightness and contrast. For example, for a brightness of 18.7% (my preferred level so far), the gradients look good at a contrast of 77.1%; move it one step higher at 78.5%, or two steps lower, to 74.2%, and you already get one distortion in the scale; it only gets worse farther up or down - banding all over the gradients. This is clearly visible on normal images as well: set the contrast a few steps too high, and you get visibly washed out colors and some shades of gray turn white altogether. To be honest, I would have expected some wider ranges to be available without banding. It's worth noting that this is the case at low brightness; closer to 50%, and with the contrast around that level as well, there's a wider range of levels available without banding. It's just that I don't like bright screens - when working or playing during the night, they burn my eyes.
-I found another very strange thing while making the adjustments. I set the contrast to 50% and move the brightness from around 20% towards 50%: I get a couple distortions in the scale throughout this range; they only go away at 50% brightness. Now, when I move the brightness back, from 50% towards 20%, I don't get any distortions anymore, down to 25%. What the heck?? Why would the firmware set things differently depending on whether I'm adjusting the brightness upwards or downwards? Any ideas?
-Whatever adjustments I try to make, any gray level below 7 is black, and anything above 251 is white. I guess anything better requires a colorimeter. Now, even if these results don't look that great, in practice, the range of distinguishable shades is nothing short of amazing. I can see details that I never thought were there, especially in dark areas in games. xtknight's test images look beautiful; the level of detail and contrast on the darkness test (tree, ledge and stuff) is the best I've seen so far.

Non-native screen sizes: I'm happy to report that the Expansion menu is working on DVI on this model. You have to actually set your graphics card to something at or below 1280x1024 for the expansion options to become active; otherwise there's nothing there. You can either stretch to full screen, scale but maintain the aspect ratio, or display the smaller image in 1:1. 1280x960 is supported as well, so I've been able to play BF2 at that screen size in 1:1. I would be even happier if I could view 1400x1050 in 1:1 as well; alas, anything above 1280x1024 is implicitly stretched to full screen - I'll have to resort to graphics card scaling for this one (rant: why wouldn't the firmware support 1:1 for any size and any aspect ratio that fits inside the native pixel area is beyond me...).

Which brings us to gaming... The guide rates the 90GX2 above the 20WGX2 for gaming; I'll have to disagree on this one :
-I haven't noticed any overdrive artifacts on the 20WGX2, and I looked for them very carefully. The 90GX2 does have some; not major issues, but they're there nonetheless, especially on grayish backgrounds.
-There's less blurring on the 20WGX2 than on the 90GX2. Yes, fast moving textures are still a bit blurry on both, but the 20WGX2 comes out on top; not by a large margin, but still on top. I know this goes against the conventional wisdom of TN panels being faster, but I'm just calling things as I see them.
-Image quality is better overall on the 20WGX2 - lots of texture details that I couldn't see on the 90GX2 because they were either too dark or too bright are clearly visible now.
-Input lag: I couldn't notice any difference between the two monitors in this aspect (yes, I'm relieved ). Several things to keep in mind here:
1. The only FPS I'm playing at the moment is BF2; other games may behave differently in terms of lag.
2. I'm only playing online, with a ping between, say, 35 and 80 ms. The experience when playing on a LAN (3 - 5 ms ping) may be different.
3. I've only played on 1280x960. There's a possibility that the input lag is greater at the native screen size.
4. I'm not saying the input lag is not there, just that it's not noticeable to me under the above conditions. I haven't noticed any change in my level of play when going from a CRT to the 90GX2 and then to the 20WGX2.
5. Enough disclaimers . The thing is, I can tell the difference between playing with 35 and 70-80 ms lag. The way it goes is that I'd join a server, play for a couple of minutes, notice something is 'different', look at the status screen and there it is - 70-80 ms ping. So, if the monitor would introduce some significant lag, I think I'd notice it.
-Back to the overall gaming experience, all of the aspects above combined make this monitor very easy on the eyes when playing, at least for me. This is the first display on which I could play for 4 hours and not feel any eyestrain (see?!... the kind of sacrifices I had to make to bring you this valuable information!... and no, I don't get to do this every day... I wish ).

The OptiClear coating: yes, I had to bring this up again, although it's been debated to death so far. The reason is I have some thoughts on it and I'm curious what you guys think. Basically, it's a tradeoff: you get more reflections, but also better colors and clearer pixels - implicitly, clearer text. I find the latter to be more apparent on 20'' screens because of the smaller dot pitch. I remember looking at an HP LP2065 (20'', 1600x1200) some time ago and thinking 'somehow these pixels are not as sharply defined as I would expect from an LCD on DVI'. In retrospect, I think it was the coating. From what I read on the subject, the matte coatings basically try to disperse reflected light as much as possible to reduce glare; a side effect is that they also scatter some of the transmitted light, thus introducing some blurriness. The glossy coatings rely on different techniques to reduce glare; while they obviously aren't very good at that, they don't disperse transmitted light either, yielding sharper pixels. While I didn't find this obvious on displays with larger pixels, like 19'' 1280x1024, things are different on 20'' ones. I also think I know now why pretty much every laptop you can buy these days has a glossy screen: the dot pitch on laptop displays is getting smaller and smaller, and the effect of matte coatings worse and worse, so the manufacturers had to choose glossy ones, despite the disadvantage of more reflections (I personally find that to be even worse on a laptop screen, because of the position). Do these ramblings make any sense? Anyway, given that I can control ambient light to some extent in the room where I work, I'm now pretty happy this screen has a glossy coating - I really like the sharper text.

And finally, why I exchanged the first monitor: pixel defects. First, I quickly noticed one dead subpixel in the lower left area. On a black screen, I found two stuck ones, one on red, one on blue. As subpixel defects go, the stuck ones weren't that visible during normal use, but the dead one was. At that point, I was already a bit disappointed, as I expected more from a NEC at this price tag. But anyway, now comes the strange part: I started a really thorough inspection on a black screen, and I found... many more stuck subpixels. The thing is, they weren't completely stuck; that is, of the vertical stripe that forms a subpixel, only a part, say, between half and one third, was stuck, and the rest was working properly. These defects were visible mostly on a black screen, at 100% brightness and 100% contrast, and when looking really carefully; otherwise, during normal use, the part of the subpixel that was OK was enough to cause it to appear to be working properly. In total, I found at least a dozen such defects. Thankfully, the guys at the store were nice enough and exchanged the monitor the next day. Now, the new one still has a few such 'partially stuck' subpixels, but no other defects - no dead or 'fully stuck' ones - and the parts that are stuck are very small, appearing like a dot inside the stripe that forms the subpixel. None of them are visible in practice, so I was happy enough to keep this one. But now I'm left wondering: is this a common defect, but something most people aren't concerned about, or not noticing at all? Or was this a particularly bad batch of panels in this respect? Before seeing them with my own eyes, I used to be certain that defect subpixels could be either completely dead, or completely stuck; I had never heard about 'partially stuck subpixels'; have you? I can only hope such defects don't develop into full-blown stuck subpixels over time...

Well, that concludes this long post. In case it wasn't too clear by now, I'm very happy with this monitor. I feel it was the right choice, and worth every penny. Back to work now... nah, maybe a quick round of BF2 first .
 

xxTurbonium

Member
Oct 8, 2006
167
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0
Ugh.

I was looking at a bunch of TN panels today at an electronics store (everything from the new Samsungs to the LGs), and I was disappointed with all of them. Relatively cheap build quality coupled with an inferior panel technology. If I tilt my head 5 degrees in virtually any direction, I notice the image start to fade. Then again, it's not like the image is even ideal at a direct viewing angle.

I honestly rather my 11 year old Samsung CRT, despite its deteriorating picture and occasional spontaneous shutdowns.

Seriously, when I look at my dad's 2 year old Samsung 193P+ (which I recommended him purchase back then), it makes me even more depressed as to my situation. I hoped that by now, the industry would be making at least some panels at a similar quality. Anyone who says they can't notice the difference between a TN and IPS panel is honestly either in denial, has vision problems, or is just stupid (no offense). The difference is huge. With the 193P+ (IPS panel), I have to be standing at an angle about 60 degrees to the normal of the screen in order to notice any sort of considerable distortion, and even then, the picture is more than clear. Compare that to ~5-15 degrees with TN panels.

Anyway, I'm just frustrated. I do need a new monitor, but the options seem to be limited or non-existent. Perhaps I will just repair my 19 inch Trinitron that crapped out on me a year ago, since all this trouble may justify the costs.
 

harobikes333

Platinum Member
Sep 18, 2005
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Originally posted by: xtknight
Originally posted by: harobikes333
Hi, I was wondering what you guys think of this monitor : ViewSonic - Q20WB Black 20" 5ms DVI Widescreen

Here is my planned setup

On a 1200~ budget.

Thanks a ton! Any help is greatly appreciated!

Mark

The Q20WB seems to be a typical 20" TN (and to tell you the truth I don't know much about it). If you could I would sacrifice a tad on another component if needed to get a more known model such as the Acer AL2051W (preferred) or Samsung 206BW. Saving $50 on a monitor can have severe consequences, while saving $50 on a CPU or hard disk really won't in a lot of cases.

Agreed. Thanks for the warning

I'm trying to decide on the acer or the sumsung... why would you prefer the acer over the sumsung...? samsung has more features doesn't it? ( I'm clueless. *help!* )

Thanks!!!!
 

harobikes333

Platinum Member
Sep 18, 2005
2,390
7
81
daily-page.com
So it is saying that samsung is still using old tech that isn't as good..? aka thats why I should go for the acer....?:?

replies are greatly appreciated! ^ ^

Thanks again,
Mark
 
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