LCD Buyer's Guide

[arcarsenal]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: arcarsenal

I finally came to the decision, to bite the bullet and buy a 206bw. However, because of the A and S panel lottery, I've been trying to find a shop who is willing to open one before I buy it. I've had no luck, no one is willing to do this and samsung won't help either.

I'm thinking of going for the LG 204WT ($330AU) compared to $400-$450AU for the 206bw. But LG's dead pixel policy requires 6 dead pixels to warrant a replacement, compared to the 1 dead pixel of samsung.

In your opinion, is the LG a better multi-use monitor than the 205bw? It can be had for less cash at least. But LG's policy frightens me.

Thanks again for your time.

I wasn't aware the 206BW was part of a panel lottery (only the 226BW). And like has been said below, I'm not sure if you'll be any safer with the L204WT since it's also part of a lottery but what monitor isn't these days? I haven't heard of any bad L204WTs yet so maybe both panels are competent. I'm not sure which is the better of the two (the Chunghwa or the LG Philips) but if I had to hazard the guess it would be the LG Philips. You're actually lucky to have a 1 dead pixel policy, and 6 isn't bad compared to the typical 8 or 10 in the US. They just can't offer us any better policies because we buy too many monitors!

And yes, I do believe that the L204WT is superior to anything Samsung has to offer but that is just based off reading stuff on the web more than anything else.

According to some users (http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies-archive.cfm/714574.html) they have received A and S panels in the 206bw.

Would you say the L204WT is probably not a bad bet regarding the panel lottery, considering there are a lot more users with it? Is there an easy way to tell the panel, like on the samsung? I've only read that the service menu will show it, or you need to remove the rear panel.

I guess I can't complain about the pixel policy, plus a screen can be exchanged within 7-days with only 1 dead pixel. But in the US you have a massive selection, and all at cheaper prices. Power to the people!

Considering all of this, the L204WT seems more appealing for price ($330), considering the 206bw with any panel is $400-$450, and for a guaranteed 206bw S panel I'd have to pay $530 (All in AUD).

 

[errto]

Originally posted by: adamsleath
ok; my main question regarding lcd panels (and "coatings/filters") is the pixelation factor..

The one factor that prevents me from buying an LCD is visible pixellation... I have yet to see an LCD where i dont find myself staring at "jagged" pixels.
Even with a 30" apple at maximum res i still notice pixellation.


However; i did notice on a laptop i viewed in a store once that it used some sort of coating/filter that seemed to "hide" the pixellation, and to me that was pleasing.

A salesperson claimed to me that this coating, or one like it, was a) a big part of the reason Apple's monitors are more expensive than otherwise similarly equipped models, and b) the reason Apple's stated contrast ratios are substantially lower than some of its competitors', yet Apple's displays perform as well or better in that area.

Is there any truth to this? If so, do other manufacturers use similar coatings and how do they compare (I am particularly interested in 23"-24" screens)?

 

[gneGne]

Originally posted by: adamsleath

i wood say my preferences wood be.:
1 NEC GX2 - build quality+performance.
2 Samsung 931C - color/contrast
3 Benq FP93GX - speed.


i am more into picture quality than speed.

Hmm, it's very hard to get these monitors here in Holland. Except for the Samsung. So I am thinking towards the 931C or the 206bw (perhaps even the 226bw). I reckon the 931c will already be fast enough for me because I hardly have problems with the LCD I own at the moment (Iiyama ProLite 8ms), just thought maybe I could see some improvement.

I still have some questions.
Does the 931C use the same technology as the 206bw?
And does the 206bw use the same technology as the 226bw?
Will certain games become unplayable with widescreen?

I can get the:
931C for E289.
206bw for E269.
226bw for E379.

 

[adamsleath]

Originally posted by: gneGne

Originally posted by: adamsleath

i wood say my preferences wood be.:
1 NEC GX2 - build quality+performance.
2 Samsung 931C - color/contrast
3 Benq FP93GX - speed.


i am more into picture quality than speed.

Hmm, it's very hard to get these monitors here in Holland. Except for the Samsung. So I am thinking towards the 931C or the 206bw (perhaps even the 226bw). I reckon the 931c will already be fast enough for me because I hardly have problems with the LCD I own at the moment (Iiyama ProLite 8ms), just thought maybe I could see some improvement.

I still have some questions.
Does the 931C use the same technology as the 206bw?
And does the 206bw use the same technology as the 226bw?
Will certain games become unplayable with widescreen?

I can get the:
931C for E289.
206bw for E269.
226bw for E379.

WEll based on the current info (which is limited ); and placing myself in the buyer's chair so to speak....(as i am interested in tft monitors...) and looking at the prices....i can see why the 206bw would be appealing.

Some time ago i had "decided" on the 226bw....until i saw theat some panels were "s" and some "a"...and apparently some are "C" - i saw a review that indicated that S (Samsung) panels performed better than the 'a' ....so; as a consumer i would attempt to purchase a samsung 226bw and make sure it had a genuine samsung panel - which to me is not too much to ask from a retailer/wholesaler.

i havent done a comparison of 206bw to 931c...so i'll google again...but to be honest i'm a bit weary at the moment with other concerns...


i was also looking at the samsung 215T - which is a s-pva screen - better viewing angle.8ms...but i guess it wouldnt have the response of the TN panels..?



anyway; from my point of view i can see the attraction of the 206bw over the 931c; it is wide screen and it is 20" and it is priced well and gets great reviews.....just make sure you know it is a genuine samsung panel !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and if a retailer cannot tell you what specific panel is in the product they are selling then "take your custom elsewhere" and find someone who will.

 

[puti]

Panel lotteries are particularly uncool....

Does LG list all their L226WT panels as L226WTQ on their websites? The global and Australian site only list L226WTQ.

 

[fasdl]

I got an hp lp2065 that is an A-MVA panel made by AUO. http://www.auo.com/auoDEV/products.php?func=info&product_id=10&items_id=1
My main complaint is the "Sheen-like" quality has. Like it's reflective because no colors are solid from any angle at all even head on.
See my post here. http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1162417&page=13
I'm wondering how much better in this aspect is the S-IPS panel?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: adamsleath
ok; my main question regarding lcd panels (and "coatings/filters") is the pixelation factor..

The one factor that prevents me from buying an LCD is visible pixellation... I have yet to see an LCD where i dont find myself staring at "jagged" pixels.
Even with a 30" apple at maximum res i still notice pixellation.


However; i did notice on a laptop i viewed in a store once that it used some sort of coating/filter that seemed to "hide" the pixellation, and to me that was pleasing.


The question this leads me to ask is: are there any coatings that reduce visible pixellation, and also do highly reflective panels or less reflective panels make a difference in this respect?

(it is the old aperture grille type of technique i am referring to used in crt's for many years to "smooth" the picture), i know with crt's the aperture grilles tend to darken the screen somewhat; which is a downside.

You probably want an LCD with NEC OptiClear, Acer CrystalBrite, or HP BrightView, though there aren't many around.

These are actually the only few I can think of off my head:

Acer AL2051W
NEC 20WMGX2
HP w2007
HP w2207

Yes, this coating should reduce pixelation. By far most LCDs simply use the standard/hard anti-glare coating as opposed to the glossy. This is a bit of a misnomer though as the coating is also antiglare, just in another way. Generally we distinguish them as "glossy" (the special kind) and "anti-glare" (the normal hard matte 3H/4H coating).

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: arcarsenal
According to some users (http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies-archive.cfm/714574.html) they have received A and S panels in the 206bw.

Would you say the L204WT is probably not a bad bet regarding the panel lottery, considering there are a lot more users with it? Is there an easy way to tell the panel, like on the samsung? I've only read that the service menu will show it, or you need to remove the rear panel.

I don't think there's an easy way to tell with the L204WT.

I guess I can't complain about the pixel policy, plus a screen can be exchanged within 7-days with only 1 dead pixel. But in the US you have a massive selection, and all at cheaper prices. Power to the people!

Considering all of this, the L204WT seems more appealing for price ($330), considering the 206bw with any panel is $400-$450, and for a guaranteed 206bw S panel I'd have to pay $530 (All in AUD).

How would you even guarantee getting a 206BW S panel?

Anyways, yes, I would go with the L204WT. It sounds like you have a better chance at getting a panel you'd like that way.

Originally posted by: errto

Originally posted by: adamsleath
ok; my main question regarding lcd panels (and "coatings/filters") is the pixelation factor..

The one factor that prevents me from buying an LCD is visible pixellation... I have yet to see an LCD where i dont find myself staring at "jagged" pixels.
Even with a 30" apple at maximum res i still notice pixellation.


However; i did notice on a laptop i viewed in a store once that it used some sort of coating/filter that seemed to "hide" the pixellation, and to me that was pleasing.

A salesperson claimed to me that this coating, or one like it, was a) a big part of the reason Apple's monitors are more expensive than otherwise similarly equipped models, and b) the reason Apple's stated contrast ratios are substantially lower than some of its competitors', yet Apple's displays perform as well or better in that area.

Is there any truth to this? If so, do other manufacturers use similar coatings and how do they compare (I am particularly interested in 23"-24" screens)?

I don't even think any 23"-24" screens employ a glossy coating. And besides that I had no idea Apple's monitors were glossy either, as their Cinema series certainly isn't. Only their MacBooks, I believe.

I did list all the ones I could think of that are worth buying in my previous post.

Originally posted by: gneGne

Originally posted by: adamsleath

i wood say my preferences wood be.:
1 NEC GX2 - build quality+performance.
2 Samsung 931C - color/contrast
3 Benq FP93GX - speed.


i am more into picture quality than speed.

Hmm, it's very hard to get these monitors here in Holland. Except for the Samsung. So I am thinking towards the 931C or the 206bw (perhaps even the 226bw). I reckon the 931c will already be fast enough for me because I hardly have problems with the LCD I own at the moment (Iiyama ProLite 8ms), just thought maybe I could see some improvement.

I still have some questions.
Does the 931C use the same technology as the 206bw?
And does the 206bw use the same technology as the 226bw?
Will certain games become unplayable with widescreen?

I can get the:
931C for E289.
206bw for E269.
226bw for E379.

Why would you be considering the 931C when it's ~35 ms though? :\

I would say the 206BW is an easy choice there, but the 226BW is not such a bad idea either. Definitely not the 931C though.

Check the original post regarding details about widescreen and games.

Originally posted by: puti
Panel lotteries are particularly uncool....

Does LG list all their L226WT panels as L226WTQ on their websites? The global and Australian site only list L226WTQ.

Nope, I've seen the X listed on lgsuperseller.com. In short, there are tons of models and they're all over the place.

Originally posted by: fasdl
I got an hp lp2065 that is an A-MVA panel made by AUO. http://www.auo.com/auoDEV/products.php?func=info&product_id=10&items_id=1
My main complaint is the "Sheen-like" quality has. Like it's reflective because no colors are solid from any angle at all even head on.
See my post here. http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1162417&page=13
I'm wondering how much better in this aspect is the S-IPS panel?

You could be speaking of the matte coating, common to 99% of LCDs. I don't believe that the S-IPS screen would make that problem any better.

Still it's possible it's the MVA panel. At head on, MVA panels can not show colors with full intensity due to their multidomain configuration. If colors are shifting then that's your problem.

 

[Phokus]

wow, what a great thread... marked 4 later!

 

[adamsleath]

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http://www.flatpanels.dk/panels.php
according to this website:

NEC LCD2080UX has a 20 inch 25 ms S-IPS (LG.Philips LM201U03) panel.

NEC LCD2080UX+ has a 20 inch 16 ms S-IPS (LG.Philips LM201U04) panel.

NEC LCD2080UX-BK has a 20 inch 25 ms S-IPS (LG.Philips LM201U03) panel.

NEC LCD2080UXi has a 20 inch 16 ms S-IPS (LG.Philips LM201U04) panel.

NEC LCD2080UXi-BK has a 20 inch 16 ms S-IPS (LG.Philips LM201U04) panel.

NEC LCD2090UXi has a 20 inch 16 ms S-IPS (LG.Philips LM201U05) panel.

NEC LCD2090UXi-BK has a 20 inch 16 ms S-IPS (LG.Philips LM201U05) panel.

NEC LCD20WGX2 (widescreen) has a 20 inch 6 ms (g2g) S-IPS (LG.Philips LM201W01) panel.

NEC LCD20WGX2Pro (widescreen) has a 20 inch 6 ms AS-IPS (LG.Philips LM201WE2) panel.

NEC LCD20WMGX2 (widescreen) has a 20 inch 6 ms (g2g) AS-IPS (LG.Philips LM201WE2) panel.

all lg-philips panels.



NEC LCD2490WUXi (widescreen) has a 24 inch 7 ms (g2g) AS-IPS (LG.Philips) panel.

NEC LCD2490WUXi-BK (widescreen) has a 24 inch 7 ms (g2g) AS-IPS (LG.Philips) panel.

NEC LCD2690WUXi (widescreen) has a 26 inch 7 ms (g2g) A-TW IPS (LG.Philips LM260WU1) panel.


TFT central "data":

NEC LCD2490WUXi 8ms G2G 24"WS LG.Philips H-IPS A-TW Pol (LM240WU2)
NEC LCD2490WUXi-BK 8ms G2G 24"WS LG.Philips H-IPS A-TW Pol (LM240WU2)

It seems NEC use lg-philips panels in their "highend" screens.

 

[adamsleath]

further to the samsung 206bw....i've looked at a few forums and it seems that some buyers have found that they have an "a" panel with the 206bw
http://forums.hexus.net/showthread.php?t=102621

...ie AU Optronics...dont know whether there is an "s" panel version of the 206bw...

 

[fasdl]

yeah i notice color shifting for sure on it. I will try to get an S-IPS, if the S-IPS impresses me a lot more than the A-MVA, I will return it and eat the restocking fee. $40.
Edit: I'll just keep you guys updated on what the difference is.

 

[errto]

Regarding my earlier question about 23-24" LCDs:

Originally posted by: xtknight

The BenQ offers HDMI input and it uses a P-MVA panel. The HP LP2465 uses a Samsung panel, probably the same one in the Dell or other Samsung-based LCDs. Many sources say the P-MVA offers better color reproduction and backlight uniformity, so I would take that into account.

What kinds of differences do these various panel technologies entail? For me text is my biggest concern since I do a lot of programming, reading papers etc (in fact I had to return an HP f2105 I bought earlier because small-font text was unbearable) with the occasional game or video.

 

[xtknight]

226BW 'S' vs 'A' article: http://www.behardware.com/articles/667-...-226bw-a-and-s-series-the-verdict.html

 

[adamsleath]

yup; i had seen the article

Once again, we find it extremely unfortunate that this manufacturer took the liberty of having three versions of the same screen and by chance gave the press the best model.

...this happens with a lot of electronics "promotion/adverts/marketing"...cpu's are another classic example.

you refer to lotteries...i call it "false advertising"...although the differences between panels are minor.

 

[arcarsenal]

Originally posted by: xtknight

How would you even guarantee getting a 206BW S panel?

Anyways, yes, I would go with the L204WT. It sounds like you have a better chance at getting a panel you'd like that way.

Exactly, I'd have to open the box (noone will let me as yet), and I'd have to check the service menu... and even then there's no guarantee..

The LG ships with a DVI cable too, as I've found.. which makes the $50 less than the samsung 205bw a bargain.

Related to this, someone on hardforums mentioned that the 205bw & the L204wt can come with a chungwha panel. And, I read that both the 205bw & 206bw can come with same samsung panel.. Maybe the 206bw will ship with the chungwha variant as well, and we'll have another? A, C, & S lottery? ;-)

 

[rxblitzrx]

Is RivaTuner compatible on Vista?

 

[BernardP]

Originally posted by: xtknight
You probably want an LCD with NEC OptiClear, Acer CrystalBrite, or HP BrightView, though there aren't many around.

These are actually the only few I can think of off my head:

Acer AL2051W
NEC 20WMGX2
HP w2007
HP w2207

By far most LCDs simply use the standard/hard anti-glare coating as opposed to the glossy. This is a bit of a misnomer though as the coating is also antiglare, just in another way. Generally we distinguish them as "glossy" (the special kind) and "anti-glare" (the normal hard matte 3H/4H coating).

Speaking of glossy finish, I went to Futureshop with my wife over the weekend and she singled out the HP w2207 from 15 feet away as the best-looking on a shelf of about 12 monitors. It was the only one with a glossy finish, and I have to say that it gives an extra something to the picture.

The glossy screen is more reflective, even more reflective than my current CRT, but somehow, it was not very distracting, even in a well-lighted store. Could you explain what you mean by "the coating is also antiglare, just in another way"
Or maybe you could point me to a website that explains the mechanics of this glossy coating (I realize such a link might also be buried somewhere in the previous 200 pages).

Edit: And I am also wondering why glossy screens are so often seen in laptops. What are the particular benefits of glossy screens on laptops, considering that laptop screens are often more oriented towards the ceiling and the lights that are there?

I just found out Samsung is going to release a 22-inch widescreen monitor with glossy screen finish, the 2232GW

There is some kind of explanation here about the glossy finish, but my chinese is sorely lacking...

 

[BernardP]

xtknight,

Suggestion of the day

Because the thread is now 200+ pages, it is taking longer and longer to load pages.

Have you considered starting the "LCD Buyer's Guide - Part 2 (after May15 2007)" Thread?

You could copy your very informative OP at the start of the new thread and resume discussions from there. It would also require a "Do not post Here" notice in the "Old" thread.

What do you think?

 

[pdawg1717]

Originally posted by: BernardP

Originally posted by: xtknight
You probably want an LCD with NEC OptiClear, Acer CrystalBrite, or HP BrightView, though there aren't many around.

These are actually the only few I can think of off my head:

Acer AL2051W
NEC 20WMGX2
HP w2007
HP w2207

By far most LCDs simply use the standard/hard anti-glare coating as opposed to the glossy. This is a bit of a misnomer though as the coating is also antiglare, just in another way. Generally we distinguish them as "glossy" (the special kind) and "anti-glare" (the normal hard matte 3H/4H coating).

Speaking of glossy finish, I went to Futureshop with my wife over the weekend and she singled out the HP w2207 from 15 feet away as the best-looking on a shelf of about 12 monitors. It was the only one with a glossy finish, and I have to say that it gives an extra something to the picture.

The glossy screen is more reflective, even more reflective than my current CRT, but somehow, it was not very distracting, even in a well-lighted store. Could you explain what you mean by "the coating is also antiglare, just in another way"
Or maybe you could point me to a website that explains the mechanics of this glossy coating (I realize such a link might also be buried somewhere in the previous 200 pages).

Edit: And I am also wondering why glossy screens are so often seen in laptops. What are the particular benefits of glossy screens on laptops, considering that laptop screens are often more oriented towards the ceiling and the lights that are there?

I just found out Samsung is going to release a 22-inch widescreen monitor with glossy screen finish, the 2232GW

There is some kind of explanation here about the glossy finish, but my chinese is sorely lacking...

The w2207 does look great at first glance (and second glance) but when comparing it to the LG L226WT, there are a couple of noticable differences...the LG has better blacks and less backlight bleed...the HP looks like a swirl of light on a black screen...now I know we don't usually sit and stare at a black screen but now that I've looked at it, it bugs me to know it is there...there is also more "green fringing" to certain types of text on the HP...the HP has a bit less banding however...so tough to decide which to keep!

 

[BernardP]

Originally posted by: pdawg1717
The w2207 does look great at first glance (and second glance) but when comparing it to the LG L226WT, there are a couple of noticable differences...the LG has better blacks and less backlight bleed...the HP looks like a swirl of light on a black screen...now I know we don't usually sit and stare at a black screen but now that I've looked at it, it bugs me to know it is there...there is also more "green fringing" to certain types of text on the HP...the HP has a bit less banding however...so tough to decide which to keep!

I also noticed that when looking at a white screen from close and a bit underneath, there is some kind of banding apparent on the w2207: instead of a uniform white, one can see white bands around 1 cm high. This is different from the picture darkening inherent to TN screens when viewed from below. I had the impression that this banding was in the glossy film, not in the screen itslef.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Samsung 226BW A vs S from behardware!

For any who is interested.

 

[adamsleath]

love that banding....

 

[pdawg1717]

Originally posted by: adamsleath
love that banding....

Love that 4 foot deep footprint...

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: errto
Regarding my earlier question about 23-24" LCDs:

Originally posted by: xtknight

The BenQ offers HDMI input and it uses a P-MVA panel. The HP LP2465 uses a Samsung panel, probably the same one in the Dell or other Samsung-based LCDs. Many sources say the P-MVA offers better color reproduction and backlight uniformity, so I would take that into account.

What kinds of differences do these various panel technologies entail? For me text is my biggest concern since I do a lot of programming, reading papers etc (in fact I had to return an HP f2105 I bought earlier because small-font text was unbearable) with the occasional game or video.

Well, the P-MVA will offer a more uniform screen like I said. Probably not a huge thing for text...but the P-MVA is higher contrast which may aid your reading ability.

With a 21" the dot pitch is 0.270 mm, and with a 24" it is exactly the same. If you'd like bigger text I'd suggest you adjust DPI parameters or settle with a lower resolution.

Originally posted by: arcarsenal

Originally posted by: xtknight

How would you even guarantee getting a 206BW S panel?

Anyways, yes, I would go with the L204WT. It sounds like you have a better chance at getting a panel you'd like that way.

Exactly, I'd have to open the box (noone will let me as yet), and I'd have to check the service menu... and even then there's no guarantee..

The LG ships with a DVI cable too, as I've found.. which makes the $50 less than the samsung 205bw a bargain.

Related to this, someone on hardforums mentioned that the 205bw & the L204wt can come with a chungwha panel. And, I read that both the 205bw & 206bw can come with same samsung panel.. Maybe the 206bw will ship with the chungwha variant as well, and we'll have another? A, C, & S lottery? ;-)

I was under the impression that C was Chi Mei in the 206BWs, not sure though. I do know the L204WT can come with a Chunghwa.

Originally posted by: BernardP
Speaking of glossy finish, I went to Futureshop with my wife over the weekend and she singled out the HP w2207 from 15 feet away as the best-looking on a shelf of about 12 monitors. It was the only one with a glossy finish, and I have to say that it gives an extra something to the picture.

The glossy screen is more reflective, even more reflective than my current CRT, but somehow, it was not very distracting, even in a well-lighted store. Could you explain what you mean by "the coating is also antiglare, just in another way"
Or maybe you could point me to a website that explains the mechanics of this glossy coating (I realize such a link might also be buried somewhere in the previous 200 pages).

I don't recall that it has been discussed a whole ton in this thread, actually. NEC had a good description of OptiClear on their site but I can't find it. It's reducing the glare where the light emanates amongst the panel, but it's increasing the glare where it reflects light off the panel.

Edit: And I am also wondering why glossy screens are so often seen in laptops. What are the particular benefits of glossy screens on laptops, considering that laptop screens are often more oriented towards the ceiling and the lights that are there?

Don't know about this. I don't believe that they are more oriented toward the ceiling though. You usually use laptops in your lap and the screen is facing your shirt or you face. So, in that way the reflections may not be as bad.

I just found out Samsung is going to release a 22-inch widescreen monitor with glossy screen finish, the 2232GW

There is some kind of explanation here about the glossy finish, but my chinese is sorely lacking...

Interesting and thanks for the news.

Originally posted by: BernardP
xtknight,

Suggestion of the day

Because the thread is now 200+ pages, it is taking longer and longer to load pages.

Have you considered starting the "LCD Buyer's Guide - Part 2 (after May15 2007)" Thread?

You could copy your very informative OP at the start of the new thread and resume discussions from there. It would also require a "Do not post Here" notice in the "Old" thread.

What do you think?

I like the idea, I may not get around to doing anything major until the weekend though. I do agree that the slow-loading is frustrating and I'm always open to suggestions.