LCD Buyer's Guide

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junkyardDawg

Senior member
Oct 11, 2001
300
0
0
Regarding the Acer al1923r

I've had this monitor for about 2 weeks now and since there is almost no information to be found on it I'll post my opinions

First impression

The base looks kind of cheap but the rest seems reasonably well made. Comes with all the cables(vga,dvi,audio,power). It adjusts smoothly in all directions and should raise up enough to suit most. OSD buttons are on the bottom and are easy to get used to. The pic on Newegg showed the color as silver which was not what I wanted and I was surprised when mine was a dark bronze. The bezel is narrow and it's really a pretty sharp looking monitor

Screen

Has noticable back-light bleeding, most noticable on boot-up but any dark solid background shows it. Lighter shades on a solid background look kind of splotchy, like the screen is not uniformly lit.

Color and contrast is very good. Blacks look black, whites look good out of the box but when I adjusted the brightness (way too bright for me) they're not quite perfect. They're not yellowed, just slightly off-white. If you can handle high contrast and brightness settings they are snow-like. I've played with the color settings quite a bit but I can't get it looking very much better than default. There are 3 color settings in the OSD, warm, cool and user; cool is way too blue and warm is only slightly better. I set it on user and played around with it. Overall colors look very realistic, especially subtle tones. Reds don't seem quite red enough, but I took a few digital pics and they look dead on compared to the actual object. If you're used to a good aperture grill CRT colors will probably look a little washed out.

One stuck red pixel, it's invisible except on a solid black background, and even then it's hard to see. I've got to say that worried more about dead pixels than anything else when deciding to get a LCD but it's really no big deal.

One more thing; it seems to take the monitor 2 or 3 minutes to "warm up" after being powered off.

Ghosting

If you're looking for it you can see some bluring in fast-paced games but I think this is the case with most if not all LCD's. During actual gameplay I personally don't notice it all. YMMV. Videos look good, no bluring or noise at all.

I've kind of focused on the negatives here but I'm pretty happy with this thing all-in-all.




 

Phoenix 97

Junior Member
Dec 12, 2005
7
0
0
So, I want to dip my toe into the LCD pool with this model:
http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetai...S10067860&catid=22559&logon=&langid=EN
It's $450 Canadian, use xe.com for conversion to your favourite currency.
20", 1600x1200, 16 ms response time, 400 cd/m², 400:1 contrast ratio.
I'm worried about price, this is by far the cheapest LCD I can find that's above 19" - are there any quality issues than would make the price on this one so low or did I just find a good buy?

I'm a casual gamer; 80-90% of the time I will not be playing a game, and even then it won't be at any outrageously large resolution anyway, I plan to update my CPU/mobo this summer, but I digress.

This will be replacing a 21" flat CRT (i.e., the front pane is flat and not curved) which tends to go clink-clank-clunk at night as it's decompressing while cooling down and waking me up. Also it's not very sharp despite my fiddling with the settings for a long time. Also, the screen will expand and get dimmer, the monitor will click and then it will collapse back to normal size, all in about 1/5 of a second. Annoying, but it's still under warranty. It'll do this maybe 3-6 times a day.

My video card does have a DVI-I output, and the monitor has a DVI-D input, I'll just need a $30 DVI cable for a better picture.

I can't seem to find any good reviews on this monitor, should I go for it?
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: Phoenix 97
So, I want to dip my toe into the LCD pool with this model:
http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetai...S10067860&catid=22559&logon=&langid=EN
It's $450 Canadian, use xe.com for conversion to your favourite currency.
20", 1600x1200, 16 ms response time, 400 cd/m², 400:1 contrast ratio.
I'm worried about price, this is by far the cheapest LCD I can find that's above 19" - are there any quality issues than would make the price on this one so low or did I just find a good buy?

I've never seen reviews of the NEC AccuSync monitors but the MultiSync are the higher-end. I'm not sure how good that LCD would be, but do you have a price range? The Dell 2001FP is a fairly decent LCD. You could also give the Samsung 204B a try if you don't want to order the 2001FP. The AccuSync does look very cheap for an LCD.
 

Luddite

Senior member
Nov 24, 2003
232
3
81
Originally posted by: darXoul
Some comments about the 20 inchers:

- NEC 2090UXi should be an awesome monitor. It's predecessor, the 2080UXi was highly praised as a fantastic allround display with great colors, viewing angles, contrast and very good blacks, response time and backlight. It is/was considered one of the best, if not THE best 20" LCD. The 2090 should be a great monitor as well. 8 ms g2g on an IPS panel is likely to be great also for gamers. RapidMotion should improve video playback. It's a high quality device, I don't know why it only got 3.5/5 in the PC Mag review. TBH, the article seemed pretty weak and worthless - rather a description of features, plus some vague performance evaluation, not a real "test"

According to the NEC website for the model NEC 2090Uxi, the contrast is 700:1, only above average, and certainly no where near the 1600:1 of their 20" glossy widescreen. The response time is listed as 16ms, not 8, and the brightness is only 280 candelas.

That's probably why PC Mag wasn't overly impressed.
 

Phoenix 97

Junior Member
Dec 12, 2005
7
0
0
The Samsung 204B seems to have really impressive specs, I see it at FutureShop on sale this week for $540. The Dell 2001FP is priced at $594.
I really only see a price difference when comparing the Dell and the NEC; I don't see a response time listed anywhere for the NEC, neither on their site, nor in the manual. Just a correction to what I have above, the NEC's contrast ratio is 250:1, not 400:1 as the BestBuy site lists.
Taxes would be an extra 14% on any choice, the Samsung would put me down $615, while the NEC would only set me back $513.
 

darXoul

Senior member
Jan 15, 2004
702
0
0
Originally posted by: Luddite
According to the NEC website for the model NEC 2090Uxi, the contrast is 700:1, only above average, and certainly no where near the 1600:1 of their 20" glossy widescreen.

700:1 was already the contrast of 2080UXi and it was good enough. 1600:1 is just a trick - a feature that dynamically changes the display's image characteristics during gameplay or video playback. TBH, I would probably disable this anyway, since it doesn't seem too realistic or convincing to me. Also, be aware that the contrast ratio itself isn't even close to being enough information for black level assessment. Example: one of the more reliable review sites evaluated Samsung 204B's black at 8/10 (contrast 800:1). NEC 2080UXi at 9/10 (contrast 700:1).

The response time is listed as 16ms, not 8,

The response time is 8 ms g2g and 16 ms on/off (7 ms rise, 9 ms fall). Here's a proof:

http://www.nec-display-solutions.de/cor...d/146228/2090UXi-Datasheet-english.pdf

and the brightness is only 280 candelas.

So what? I consider this an advantage. Excessive brightness to reach a high contrast ratio is a drawback in my eyes. Just look at the 2405FPW - many people complain it's too bright within its possible adjustment range. 280 cd/sqm is fine.

That's probably why PC Mag wasn't overly impressed.

I've read a few of their superficial and inaccurate reviews. Conclusions: the guys are newbs and don't really know what they're talking about.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: TecHNooB
Hey, when's the shiny NEC coming to the US? Yes, the shiny/glossy NEC.

The 20" widescreen? It already is available in the US: NEC MultiSync 20WMGX2 and 20WMGX2-BK (black bezel).
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
The best is when you have a high contrast ratio and a low enough brightness to get a deep black. An overly bright backlight will brighten dark- and mid- tones too much even though it makes brighter colors more vibrant. The end result is a gamma curve that's way too high and misbalanced/nonlinear colors.

An accurate contrast rating and an accurate brightness rating will yield an accurate white and black level. But that's worthless because those ratings are never accurate. My ViewSonic VP930b at 250 cd/m² is blinding whereas my Samsung 710T at a supposed 300 cd/m² is dim.

Formulas:

White Level (nits) = Brightness
Black Level (nits) = Brightness / Contrast Ratio
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Dar - Why don't you just get the big dog LCD2190UXi? I mean only 22% more money

Oh and Luddite - NEC tells the truth - only reason they even started with this 6 and 8 ms grey to grey stuff in thier consumer line is because pressure put on them by the liars (samsung/veiwsonic et al who use g2g all the time). Most all LCD's are over 12 ms so when NEC says 16ms for pro models it's fast - NEC used to say 25ms on same panels which dell and others called 12-16ms! :Q
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Interesting info in a press release if you can beleive that:

NEC Display Solutions Introduces New Professional Display Series New 19-, 20- and 21-inch NEC MultiSync 90-series LCD monitors deliver high-end performance to professional markets (March 13, 2006)

NEC's 19-inch MultiSync LCD1990SXi

NEC's 19-inch MultiSync LCD1990SXi
NEC Display Solutions of America, a leading stand-alone provider of flat panel desktop and large-screen displays, today announced its new series of professional LCD monitors - the NEC MultiSync 90-series. Designed to deliver technology-leading screen performance to image-critical markets, the new NEC MultiSync 90-series, which will replace the award-winning MultiSync 80-series, contains over 25 new or improved features that produce crisper, clearer images; enable better control and connectivity; increase energy efficiency; and provide greater adjustment versatility.

Poised to address the demanding and varying needs of professional end-users from photographers and graphic designers to engineers and radiologists, the new NEC MultiSync 90-series offers desktop displays using the most advanced technologies available, including in-plane switching (IPS) and vertical alignment (VA) LCD module technology:

* IPS-based modules, arguably the highest performing LCD technology available on the market, deliver unparalleled color reproduction and brightness uniformity by minimizing off-angle color shift and by producing clearer black tones in dark-colored images

* VA-based modules offer excellent image quality, high contrast ratios and fast response times in a cost effective solution

The new MultiSync 90-series "i" models, which use IPS-based modules, address the color critical needs of markets such as medical imaging, graphic illustration and photography. Carrying a standard four-year warranty, among the highest and most comprehensive in the industry, the MultiSync 90-series "i" models include the 19-inch MultiSync LCD1990SXi, the 20-inch (20.1 viewable) MultiSync LCD2090UXi and the 21-inch (21.3 viewable) MultiSync LCD2190UXi monitors.

The new MultiSync 90-series "p" models, utilizing VA-based modules, are well-suited to meet the needs of CAD/CAM and other users who demand high resolutions, precise images, adjustment flexibility and advanced features but may not have a need for exacting color reproduction. The MultiSync 90-series "p" models will include the 19-inch MultiSync LCD1990SXp and the 21-inch MultiSync LCD2190UXp monitors, which will carry a standard three-year warranty.


Designed for professionals who rely on image excellence, all of the new NEC MultiSync Professional 90-series displays feature a 12-bit Look-Up Table (LUT) for unparalleled color breadth and depth, ColorComp for improved color, brightness and grayscale uniformity, and an ergonomically advanced cabinet design with ultra thin bezels, pivot capability and a 150mm height adjustable stand for unsurpassed flexibility.

"NEC has a history of developing displays with leading-edge technology," said Ray Froude, Senior Product Specialist, NEC Display Solutions of America. "By involving end-users such as illustrators, animators, and radiologists in our development process, the new MultiSync Professional 90-series not only raises the performance bar in these image-critical markets, it also delivers the features and improvements these professionals demand."

In addition to new image-improvement features, the NEC MultiSync Professional 90-series also contains Eco-related features such as AmbiBright and Eco-mode that will manually or automatically adjust the display's brightness relative to the ambient lighting. These features provide optimal power management for greater energy efficiency and longer product life.

The new "i" series NEC Professional 90-Series features include:

* Standard four-year limited warranty
* SpectraViewII, which delivers an advanced and easy-to-use calibration and profiling solution for color-critical applications

The new "p" series NEC Professional 90-Series features include:

* Standard three-year limited warranty


All NEC Professional 90-series models include:

* AmbiBright - By automatically adjusting the display's brightness for varying ambient lighting, AmbiBright produces optimal brightness for optimal viewing enjoyment and energy conservation
* Ambix3 - Dual-input technology, which allows up to 3 inputs: VGA, DVI-D & DVI-I to be connected to a single display
* Overdrive - Improves gray-to-gray response time
* Black Level Adjustment - Allows for black levels of the LCD to more closely resemble the levels of a CRT
* 12-bit LUT allows more levels of shading between black and white
* ColorComp -compensates for slight variations in the white and color uniformity level of the display for greater image accuracy
* GammaComp - allows for preset or customized gamma curves to be displayed
* Digital CableComp - Longer DVI-D cables of up to 30 meters, in addition to analog cable runs of up to 100 meters, can be utilized for greater location flexibility
* GammaComp MD Supported - DICOM compliant for medical applications
* RoHS & WEEE Compliant - The Professional series complies with these e-waste standards, ensuring easier, more environmentally friendly product transitions
* Eco-Mode - Users can dim the back light by using setting presets to as much as 75% for power conservation, enabling greater product life
* Ultra-Thin Bezel - A bezel width of just 12 mm on some models makes the 90-series ideal for multiple monitor configurations, including PACS or tiling installations
* Easy-to-use Multi-Directional Controls - Horizontal and Vertical control buttons allow easier on-screen management in either landscape or portrait modes
* OSD Lockout - All functions, including power, can be locked out at the display for greater setting security
* Increase Height Adjustment - With a range of 150mm, the Professional series can be easily raised to the needs of any user
* Quick-release stand for easy mounting on third party arms or wall mounts

The new NEC MultiSync Professional 90-series LCD products are RoHS (Restriction on Hazardous Substances) compliant, containing fully disposable plastics and are free of hazardous materials such as lead, hex-chrome, cadmium, mercury, PBDE and PBB.

The NEC MultiSync LCD1990SXi and MultiSync LCD2090UXi monitors are available for immediate shipment. The MultiSync LCD2190UXi is scheduled for a mid-April delivery. The MultiSync LCD1990SXp and MultiSync LCD2190UXp will be available for spring 2006 delivery.


About NEC Display Solutions of America, Inc.
Headquartered in Itasca, Ill., NEC Display Solutions of America, Inc., is a leading provider of innovative LCD displays and integrated display solutions. NEC Display Solutions develops leading-edge visual technology and customer-focused solutions for the consumer, enterprise, professional, medical and digital signage markets. NEC Display Solutions ranked as one of the best-selling stand-alone LCD monitor providers in the U.S. for all of CY2005, according to iSuppli's quarterly monitor reports. For more information, please call 1-866-NEC-MORE or visit www.necdisplay.com.

All trademarks and registered trademarks are the property of their respective owners. Reseller prices may vary.

For additional information about NEC Display Solutions of America monitors, consumers can call (866) NEC-MORE, or visit the Web site at: www.necdisplay.com/protectyourimage/. For digital images, please visit www.necdisplay.com/mml.

 

Fallen Kell

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,067
438
126
Has anyone heard anything about the Samsung SyncMaster? 214T? I have been trying to find real reviews of it and not just marketing fluff that we get. I am really interested in a similar monitor like this one. Mainly the due to the features like DVI+HDCP, 4:3 aspect, 1600x1200 resolution. I am hoping that its response times, color quality (and spectrum) are similar to the 244T, but knowing the fact that the 244T is a widescreen model, I know they are not based on similar panels, and thus all the above items come into question.

So anyone seen one and/or seen a true review? Thanks.
 

TecHNooB

Diamond Member
Sep 10, 2005
7,460
1
76
Originally posted by: xtknight
Originally posted by: TecHNooB
Hey, when's the shiny NEC coming to the US? Yes, the shiny/glossy NEC.

The 20" widescreen? It already is available in the US: NEC MultiSync 20WMGX2 and 20WMGX2-BK (black bezel).

Hm... I wonder when Newegg will begin stocking them.
 

Fallen Kell

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,067
438
126
Originally posted by: TecHNooB
Originally posted by: xtknight
Originally posted by: TecHNooB
Hey, when's the shiny NEC coming to the US? Yes, the shiny/glossy NEC.

The 20" widescreen? It already is available in the US: NEC MultiSync 20WMGX2 and 20WMGX2-BK (black bezel).

Hm... I wonder when Newegg will begin stocking them.

buy.com has them listed, but temp. out of stock...
PC Mall has them supposedly, but they don't have the greatest reputation...
I looked at zipzoomfly but they only have the older ones at the moment.
 

darXoul

Senior member
Jan 15, 2004
702
0
0
Zebo, no thanks. It's slower

Fallen Kell, I don't recommend the 214t, because of two reasons:

1) it's not as fast as the 244t, it's 8 ms g2g, not 6. Usually, it's marketing, but in this case (S-PVA panel), the 2 ms make a huge, very noticeable difference. The 244t handles all games well in terms of ghosting/blur. The 214t does not.

2) Like in case of 244t, I've read many input lag reports in connection with this monitor.

I'd stay away from it, to be honest.
 

roisin

Member
Feb 28, 2006
34
0
0
is the smaller 204T more like 214T or 244T in terms of ghosting? btw, i dont really play games, but i do watch tv, and on my older lcd, any faster paced video blurs so much, it gives me a headache.
 

darXoul

Senior member
Jan 15, 2004
702
0
0
204t is like 214t in terms of ghosting, maybe a bit worse. For videos, it should be OK though.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Since I'm totally partial to IPS I'd look into this benQ with new overdriven LM201U05 IPS
http://www.prad.de/en/news/shownews505.html

LG L2000C same panel as above.

New 90 series "i's" from NEC since they say thier new panes are over driven.

HP 2035 or Sony SDM-S204 with older 16 ms LM201U04.

It's not by accident monitor top dogs like Sony, NEC, Apple all use IPS - they have a reputation to uphold.
 

roisin

Member
Feb 28, 2006
34
0
0
arent all three the same 'generation'? or does 244T come with a different overdrive technology? you're not just talking based on published specs? as that, especially with samsung is irelevant. how about 242MP, is that one as fast as 244T? wonder if i should wait till those 120Hz monitors hit the stores, not sure if that wont be 23" or bigger only though
 

darXoul

Senior member
Jan 15, 2004
702
0
0
Originally posted by: roisin
arent all three the same 'generation'? or does 244T come with a different overdrive technology? you're not just talking based on published specs? as that, especially with samsung is irelevant. how about 242MP, is that one as fast as 244T?

1. Yes, they are.
2. Yes, it does.
3. No, I'm not.
4. No, it's not.



http://www.lesnumeriques.com/duels.php?...o1=65&p1=702&ma2=38&mo2=64&p2=701&ph=1

(Acer 2416 has the same panel as Samsung 244)

6 ms vs. 8 ms really does make a huge difference in this case. Usually, I don't care about listed official specs because they are pretty much irrelevant. In this case however, both screenshots and reviews confirm that the 6 ms panel in the 244t and Acer AL2416W is clearly superior to the 8 ms panel in the 214t. The 242MP sucks in terms of ghosting with its 16 ms:

http://www.lesnumeriques.com/duels.php?ty=6&ma1=36&mo1=65&p1=702&ma2=36&ph=1
 

Ebolax

Junior Member
May 17, 2005
7
0
61
Originally posted by: Zebo
Interesting info in a press release if you can beleive that:

NEC Display Solutions Introduces New Professional Display Series New 19-, 20- and 21-inch NEC MultiSync 90-series LCD monitors deliver high-end performance to professional markets (March 13, 2006)

NEC's 19-inch MultiSync LCD1990SXi

NEC's 19-inch MultiSync LCD1990SXi
NEC Display Solutions of America, a leading stand-alone provider of flat panel desktop and large-screen displays, today announced its new series of professional LCD monitors - the NEC MultiSync 90-series. Designed to deliver technology-leading screen performance to image-critical markets, the new NEC MultiSync 90-series, which will replace the award-winning MultiSync 80-series, contains over 25 new or improved features that produce crisper, clearer images; enable better control and connectivity; increase energy efficiency; and provide greater adjustment versatility.

Poised to address the demanding and varying needs of professional end-users from photographers and graphic designers to engineers and radiologists, the new NEC MultiSync 90-series offers desktop displays using the most advanced technologies available, including in-plane switching (IPS) and vertical alignment (VA) LCD module technology:

* IPS-based modules, arguably the highest performing LCD technology available on the market, deliver unparalleled color reproduction and brightness uniformity by minimizing off-angle color shift and by producing clearer black tones in dark-colored images

* VA-based modules offer excellent image quality, high contrast ratios and fast response times in a cost effective solution

The new MultiSync 90-series "i" models, which use IPS-based modules, address the color critical needs of markets such as medical imaging, graphic illustration and photography. Carrying a standard four-year warranty, among the highest and most comprehensive in the industry, the MultiSync 90-series "i" models include the 19-inch MultiSync LCD1990SXi, the 20-inch (20.1 viewable) MultiSync LCD2090UXi and the 21-inch (21.3 viewable) MultiSync LCD2190UXi monitors.





Something is seriously wrong here. I just went and "shopped online" through the NEC website and they want 20WMGX2 prices for this 19" variant??? It is available to ship at least but still, am I missing something here or do you usually see absolutely no, if not higher prices for 19" versions of 20" monitors?

As an aside, is the NEC LCD1980FXi a good monitor if you can't afford and can't wait for 20WMGX2's to become available here in the US? I really don't care about widescreen or not, I just want a monitor that's close to, "perfect" for around 600. I could stretch my budget to 700... and if it's this week maybe 800 but I really don't want to spend that much. On the other hand I've been using this Samsung CRT I bought since 99 so if it's worth it beyond a doubt I could go to 800. This whole HDCP nonsense has only confused the issue for me because I might care about it at some point I can't afford it but someone will probably develop a bypass like they always do.

Here's the issue, I'm starting grad school in the summer and would like a LCD that does everything and will last me for the next 6 years. I've spent around 7 or 8 days researching LCDs and I really have no idea anymore. I've heard IPS is a waste of money if you don't need viewing angles, I've heard it isn't worth it for true 8-bit color and that I want a TN, I've heard that TN has horrid color and I want some kind of acronym-P or MVA, that if I don't get a Dell I'll regret it, that the Dell's available are the best buys possible, that the Dell's available aren't so great vs the "2007" models and I can't keep this all straight anymore. Half the review pages are full of lies or half-truths at best, I can't figure out whose testing procedure is best and more importantly whose procedure measures real world facts instead of bulletpoints on a pdf. Other forums I thought useful turned into flocks of parrots all proclaiming one thing as the best for about half a week until it was something else. Over the months since I started intermittently researching LCD's this thread has remained pretty constant and quite useful as a resource but now I need specifics.

It's going with either a 7900GT or a 1900xt. I'd like it under 600, but if that doesn't allow for what I want then I'll have to see. I want a monitor that'll last, ideally 6 years but whatever. I want it to do everything well, I need gaming first and foremost, but I watch movies and I write papers and read text and do graphics work as well and don't want to compromise these just for gaming capability I won't be maximizing on. Please help?
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
19" is $800
20" is $1200
21" is $1500

Their 90 pro series is hella expensive - they are the best. I don't reccommend unless you just have lots of cash and have to have the best no matter what since same panels can be found else where (but not with NEC electronics).

Step down to thier consumer line and get monitor in my sig.

The Dell 2005/2007 uses IPS which is why it gets great reviews. Old IPS compared to NEC but still very good..

The reason it can be confusing is because IPS did'nt used to be quite as good and VA had a chance - they were slow and not very good blacks and expensive - all that has changed this year and IPS dominates every facet but price.

IPS has kept it's superior color and veiw angles but added response time and blacks.
 
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