LCD Buyer's Guide

[xtknight]

Thanks darXoul and Zebo for answering questions; you've been a big help.

Originally posted by: Ebola
As an aside, is the NEC LCD1980FXi a good monitor if you can't afford and can't wait for 20WMGX2's to become available here in the US?

The 20WMGX2 is available in the US at several stores: http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=20WMGX2&hl=en&btnG=Search+Froogle

But it may be sold out for now. Zebo is in the US and he has had one for a while now though.

I'm really not sure about the NEC LCD1980FXi but I really doubt it's better than their 20" widescreen (definitely not in response time).

I really don't care about widescreen or not, I just want a monitor that's close to, "perfect" for around 600. I could stretch my budget to 700... and if it's this week maybe 800 but I really don't want to spend that much. On the other hand I've been using this Samsung CRT I bought since 99 so if it's worth it beyond a doubt I could go to 800. This whole HDCP nonsense has only confused the issue for me because I might care about it at some point I can't afford it but someone will probably develop a bypass like they always do.

The 20WMGX2 has HDCP so you won't have to worry about that aspect. (HDCP is only needed for playing back Blu-Ray and HD-DVD discs. Other high definition videos can still be viewed without it.) You video card will be the one needing to be upgraded to HDCP though. If I recall, none today support HDCP whatsoever despite it having been implemented in reference designs. The DVI transceiver must be upgraded, so a BIOS flash won't do it.

Here's the issue, I'm starting grad school in the summer and would like a LCD that does everything and will last me for the next 6 years. I've spent around 7 or 8 days researching LCDs and I really have no idea anymore.

I feel your pain...there is a lot of information out there, but a lot of it is misleading.

I've heard IPS is a waste of money if you don't need viewing angles, I've heard it isn't worth it for true 8-bit color and that I want a TN, I've heard that TN has horrid color and I want some kind of acronym-P or MVA, that if I don't get a Dell I'll regret it, that the Dell's available are the best buys possible, that the Dell's available aren't so great vs the "2007" models and I can't keep this all straight anymore.

TN is best-suited for the pure LAN party gamers who want a fast and portable display. It's also a low-budget solution. It'll certainly suffice for any kind office work too.

IPS is not a waste of money. It continues to offer the greatest color accuracy of any of the panel types, the best viewing angle, and superior response time to MVA- or PVA- mode panels.

PVA/MVA panels are fairly decent. They are generally less expensive than IPS, but half of them still only offer the color accuracy of TN panels. However their high contrast still makes for a great image.

Dell...well, they are a mixed bag. Their 2005FPW is decent, but their 2405FPW isn't the best like so many proclaim. Plus their monitors have frequent backlight problems although they do have a satisfaction-guaranteed policy. They do sell their monitors for dirt cheap in comparison as well.

Half the review pages are full of lies or half-truths at best

Tons of big reviewer sites obtain LCDs and review them but most aren't dedicated to LCD testing and as a result they get caught in many misconceptions. Many will suffice for cursory examinations but it's not a good idea to base a buying decision off of them.

I can't figure out whose testing procedure is best and more importantly whose procedure measures real world facts instead of bulletpoints on a pdf.

http://www.tomshardware.com/
http://www.behardware.com/
http://www.xbitlabs.com/

Those are my favorite English LCD review sites. Though they actually are all general, they do know their LCD stuff. Tom's and Xbit show you the circuitry they made to measure resopnse time and everything. BeHardware shows you decent color calibration and response time results. I'd say XBit and a foreign site called flatpanels.dk know the most period. I have been frequenting the English forum at flatpanels.dk. Lesnumeriques.com also has good response time measurement images and comparisons of different monitors based on many objective attributes.

It's going with either a 7900GT or a 1900xt. I'd like it under 600, but if that doesn't allow for what I want then I'll have to see. I want a monitor that'll last, ideally 6 years but whatever. I want it to do everything well, I need gaming first and foremost, but I watch movies and I write papers and read text and do graphics work as well and don't want to compromise these just for gaming capability I won't be maximizing on. Please help?

I still think the NEC 20WMGX2 is the best for you given price range and longetivity. It is future-proof with HDCP. It's the fastest desktop LCD (great for gaming), and it offers the best colors so far, not to mention the best viewing angles. There is simply no competition for the time being (except possibly the LG IPSes above but they may not have HDCP or the dynamic contrast feature). The NEC really is a great monitor and I'm gonna get my hands on one as soon as...next birthday or so (less than 6 mo).

 

[Zebo]

You might get a perfect one sooner.. I might make you a sweet deal on my NEC after I get the Philips 230WP7NS.

Size is NEC's only weakness i've negected to discuss.

 

[Luddite]

Originally posted by: darXoul

Originally posted by: Luddite
According to the NEC website for the model NEC 2090Uxi, the contrast is 700:1, only above average, and certainly no where near the 1600:1 of their 20" glossy widescreen.

700:1 was already the contrast of 2080UXi and it was good enough. 1600:1 is just a trick - a feature that dynamically changes the display's image characteristics during gameplay or video playback. TBH, I would probably disable this anyway, since it doesn't seem too realistic or convincing to me. Also, be aware that the contrast ratio itself isn't even close to being enough information for black level assessment. Example: one of the more reliable review sites evaluated Samsung 204B's black at 8/10 (contrast 800:1). NEC 2080UXi at 9/10 (contrast 700:1).

The response time is listed as 16ms, not 8,

The response time is 8 ms g2g and 16 ms on/off (7 ms rise, 9 ms fall). Here's a proof:

http://www.nec-display-solutions.de/cor...d/146228/2090UXi-Datasheet-english.pdf

Ok, I hadn't seen that webpage before. Thanks darXoul. It's just that I was looking at these pages http://www.necdisplay.com/corpus/T/K/90_Series_Brochure_0206.pdf
http://www.necdisplay.com/products/ProductDetail.cfm?Product=454 and didn't see any mention of an 8ms response figure.

xknight made a good point about the brightness and contrast ratio. I suppose there is a point when a display can be too bright. And yeah that Dell 2405FPW has had a lot of complaints about its brightness level. I think anything over 350 cd/m is nearing the max. It's funny then that the new Eizo's which everyone are raving about have a brightness of 450 candelas. That's gotta hurt the old eyes. (it's obviously adjustable of course).

The NEC 2090uxi looks nice though. I just wish the contrast was a little higher, that's all. But I'd rather get the NEC 20WMGX2 anyway, if it only didn't have the glossy screen.

 

[OVERKILL]

what do you guys think of the
Acer AL2032WA?


http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=239038

 

[darXoul]

Originally posted by: Luddite
The NEC 2090uxi looks nice though. I just wish the contrast was a little higher, that's all. But I'd rather get the NEC 20WMGX2 anyway, if it only didn't have the glossy screen.

I'm still waiting for the UXi to appear in stores. The WGX2 is nice but its glossy panel and size are deal breakers to me. Actually, the Philips 230WP7NS may be the best choice right now - 12/8 ms IPS panel, 23" 1920*1200. Perfect... but... I don't like its looks

 

[roisin]

jesus, i wish somebody would review any of the 3 monitors with the LG.Philips LM201U05 panel, so i can be sure it performs. Ehm, can somebody buy the benq FP2092 and test it for us? i just cant be sure, they arent lying like when they said FP202W comes with a mva panel

 

[Ebolax]

Is the Phillips 200W6CB/27 the same monitor as the NEC WMGX2 but without the gloss coat? I can't find a meaningful review of it, which I take to mean that it is a clone and thus would be redundant to review or that it's just obscure? Or is it the same as the Dell 2005 in that they both lack what I think is overdrive found in the WMGX2? All of this rebadging/branding of panels and the differences between them is frustrating... and yes, I've been unable to find a place with the WMGX2 in stock, Zebo how soon are you planning on getting that Philips?

 

[roisin]

200W6 is the old generation philips s-ips, also found in the apple 20" wideangle or Dell 2005FPW

 

[imported_Ebola]

Thus my confusion... http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/fo...2&sid=1530670a9e0a9a97f6e2479bf7011b83 seem to disagree, and they cite flatpanels.dk

it would seem that there's a new version of this monitor (but the old has quickly been sold/removed/been disposed of?) that has specs that differ from the apple and the dell 2005fpw

namely, 800:1 contrast instead of 600:1, and a 8ms g2g response instead of a 16ms g2g. From what widescreengaming has to say it seems conclusive that Philips did change the screen, New Egg has the new /00 variant in stock and lists the 800:1/8ms stats. So what siblings does this panel share? It would seem that 8ms g2g would represent overdriven S-IPS or AS-IPS like the one in the WMGX2 if I'm not mistaken, albeit not to the precision found in the WMGX2.

edit: and now it makes sense why my password didn't work even when I knew it was right. I don't suppose it is possible for a mod to merge the two accounts? further edit: just ignore this, I messaged a moderator

 

[alanelf]

xtknight can you recommed me a good 19" monitor for gaming and designing use budget is $250 to $300

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Ebolax
Is the Phillips 200W6CB/27 the same monitor as the NEC WMGX2 but without the gloss coat? I can't find a meaningful review of it, which I take to mean that it is a clone and thus would be redundant to review or that it's just obscure? Or is it the same as the Dell 2005 in that they both lack what I think is overdrive found in the WMGX2? All of this rebadging/branding of panels and the differences between them is frustrating... and yes, I've been unable to find a place with the WMGX2 in stock, Zebo how soon are you planning on getting that Philips?

No Sir I plan to get the Philips 230WP7NS, it's 23" wide screen overdriven IPS....


As far as WMGX2 it may be startting to get the point where it's too expensive! I got mine for $650 which was high - but now it's $800 everywhere!!!- just crazy for WS 20"

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: alanelf
xtknight can you recommed me a good 19" monitor for gaming and designing use budget is $250 to $300

BenQ FP91G+.

 

[darXoul]

The 2090UXi-BK has just appeared at one vendor, at a price of PLN 3,564. This is 49% more expensive than 20WGX2. What would you say? I guess the difference is bigger in the US but of course, you damn Yanks get HDCP and TV functionality as a little icing on the cake

 

[kgraeme]

Dell Austrailia is listing the 2007fp.

Link

$1049AUD = ~ $754US

 

[alanelf]

beside BenQ FP91G+. ...do you have any other for recommend

 

[alanelf]

what do you think of this viewsonic VX924

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: darXoul
The 2090UXi-BK has just appeared at one vendor, at a price of PLN 3,564. This is 49% more expensive than 20WGX2. What would you say? I guess the difference is bigger in the US but of course, you damn Yanks get HDCP and TV functionality as a little icing on the cake

Not bad 3,564.00 PLN = 1,105.03 USD meaning it's cheaper than USA!!!

http://www.pricegrabber.com/rd.php/pg=~...9b7d7ae638b65700cc6b462/search=2090UXi
Get it!
Get it!
Get it!
Get it!

 

[darXoul]

Originally posted by: alanelf
what do you think of this viewsonic VX924

Ask Zebo He thinks it's a piece of crap. I say it's a fast gaming monitor for sure but it has: the 5:4 format I don't like; a huge pixel pitch like all 19 inchers; colors inferior to any decent VA or IPS display; blacks not as deep as any decent VA or new IPS; backlight bleeding issues; horrible vertical viewing angle like all TN displays; considerable video noise like all TNs; no height adjustment.

IMO, it's a monitor for gamers who don't care much about anything else than ghosting and are possibly on a budget and/or don't have a very powerful video card (relatively low resolution compared to 20+" monitors).

Zebo, I've already asked my two retailers for an offer on the 2090UXi. Stay tuned.


EDIT: interesting comparison, the French site has added the 204B to their LCD head-to-head database. As you can see, the opinions (flatpanels.dk, some user reviews I read) seem to be confirmed here - the 204B is not really that fast in games, and it exhibits a fair amount of ghosting. Samsung might be cheating with specs a bit, because no way in hell this is 5 ms on/off:

http://www.lesnumeriques.com/duels.php?ty=6&ma1=36&mo1=101&p1=1021&ma2=52&ph=1

There goes its supposedly biggest strength (IMO).

Damn, I'm so glad I didn't buy it.

 

[roisin]

hey, what panels are in the new Dell 2007WFP and Dell 2407WF? philips only make a 23", so it's most likely Samsung LTM240M2?

 

[darXoul]

The 20" looks like the old S-IPS 16 ms panel. To be confirmed. For sure, it's S-IPS by LG.Philips.

The 24" is the 6 ms g2g / 16 ms on-off S-PVA by Samsung.

TBH, both look like a huge disappointment. The first one doesn't seem like much of an improvement compared to its predecessor, the second one features a panel that seems particularly prone to the infamous input lag (Acer AL2416W, Samsung 244t).

Two more swords in my little "Dell LCDs are overrated" crusade

 

[roisin]

flatpanels.dk reports Acer AL2416W to have LTM240M1 (12/16ms?) and 244t having LTM240M2 (6ms), and lesnumeriques.com does not have a pixperan image from a 244T or any other monitor coming with the newer LTM240M2, so maybe it's not that bad

LTM240M2 is also in Fujitsu-Siemens P24-1W, Samsung 244T/245T, BenQ FP241W, and most likely the new dell too

 

[darXoul]

"Acer AL2416W (widescreen) har et 24 tommer 6 ms (g2g) PVA (Samsung LTM240M1) panel."

Acer = 6 ms. Samsung = 6 ms. It might be PVA vs. S-PVA but the response time is the same. The Acer is a very fast monitor, even for FPS games it's still OK. It hardly shows any ghosting.

However, many people have reported consistent (on the contrary to Dell 2405FPW) and very annoying mouse lag on their Samsung 244t monitors. I've seen a couple of reports concerning the Acer as well.

In a nutshell, as a gamer, I'd stay away from both. Good behavior in terms of ghosting is an asset but the input lag is a clear deal breaker for me.

 

[roisin]

Dell 2405FPW (widescreen) has a 24 inch 12 ms (g2g) PVA (Samsung LTM240M1-L01) panel.
Samsung 242MP has a 24 inch 16 ms PVA (Samsung LTM240M1-L01) panel.
Acer AL2416W (widescreen) has a 24 inch 6 ms (g2g) PVA (Samsung LTM240M1) panel. << is that acer -L02 or something?
Samsung 244T (widescreen) has a 24 inch 6 ms (g2g) S-PVA (Samsung LTM240M2) panel.

 

[roisin]

btw, http://displays.engadget.com/2006/03/18/philips-200wp7-lcd-surfaces-at-the-fcc

looks like this is the new philips that comes with the same fast s-ips as Nec 20WGX²
check the pdf with pictures: http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/oet/cf/ea...mFrame=N&application_id=852268&fcc_id=

if someone has the time, you coud check the FCC site for any latest monitors they tested

 

[roisin]

looking at nec 2170nx http://www.lesnumeriques.com/duels.php?...o1=82&p1=856&ma2=36&mo2=65&p2=702&ph=1
to me it looks fast enough (if they actually tested the 2170nx, as if you scroll down, they list it with a s-ips panel, so who knows...

if that had a s.video input (which i really need to have), i would probably buy it, i would probably like the biger pixel.pitch of this 21" too, mva vs s-ips, i dont really give a crap about blacks/angles, alhough i do some gfx work

wish the NX series had the same design as the UX series, no 'round' edges