LCD Buyer's Guide

[darXoul]

Large footprint... Not good for my desktop layout. Doesn't look too great, either. It looks like the smaller brother of the 230WP7. I think it's new IPS, I guess 6 ms g2g, 12 ms on/off.

EDIT: the 2170NX is S-PVA, not S-IPS. It ghosts pretty bad, it's worse than 16 ms IPS panels according to many users.

 

[imported_Ebola]

Originally posted by: darXoul
The 20" looks like the old S-IPS 16 ms panel. To be confirmed. For sure, it's S-IPS by LG.Philips.

huge disappointment. doesn't seem like much of an improvement compared to its predecessor.

Two more swords in my little "Dell LCDs are overrated" crusade

So the old Philips 200W6CB/27 used the same panel as that found in the dell 2005, and now in the dell 2007 specs they both have 800:1 contrasts now (you can still find 600:1 versions of the Philips for sale but there is an 800:1 now... I think) so I would say they're both using the same "newer" panel. There's a problem however because the new version of the Philips lists an 8ms g2g response while Dell lists a 16ms response time. I find it far more likely that one of them is lying instead of them using different panels this year.

I really want to find out the deal with the Philips but I have a bad feeling it isn't what I want it to be =

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: alanelf
beside BenQ FP91G+. ...do you have any other for recommend

There may be other comparable ones but that's one I know of that should be decent for the price.

Originally posted by: alanelf
what do you think of this viewsonic VX924

Backlight bleeding problems and one of the revisions of it had a response time problem so I'd still go with the BenQ FP91G+.

 

[alanelf]

how about asus monitor...asus PW191 widescreen monitor

 

[alanelf]

how about acer AL1932 and AL1951

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: alanelf
how about asus monitor...asus PW191 widescreen monitor

I don't know of any other LCDs I'd recommend for $250-300 other than the Benq FP91G+.

 

[Vazkor]

First of all I'd like to say xtknight's work is AWESOME ... still, I'm more confused than ever.
I have THREE windows and two lights right behind my desk so NEC 20WMGX2 is out of question ( and I hate glare ), BenQ FP91G+ is too noisy for I have an almost fanless uber-silent pc, Samsung 970p is not imported here in Italy ( omg ) and abroad shipping is expensive.

I was wondering why there's no reviews of Samsung 204b, it's pretty cheap and it has a good response time ... I'm not too enthusiast about widescreen and it's about the only 20'' 5:4 out there.

Someone can tell me if it's a viable option? Should I get a 940b instead?
Thanks to everyone who'll help me out ...

 

[Zebo]

Does'nt anyone think VA's blur more than IPS? I do. My Dell 1905 (same as Samsung 193P) was just an aweful blur master deluxe with S-PVA, worse than Dell2005 by large margin, just aweful - I saw my brothers Gateway 21" it blur like crazy too, also a VA. Maybe they just have more a bell curve going on x-spectrum who knows but I do not recommend VA type displays for gamers. The newer IPS's should be only choice IMO. Followed by TN for budget consious.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Vazkor
First of all I'd like to say xtknight's work is AWESOME ... still, I'm more confused than ever.
I have THREE windows and two lights right behind my desk so NEC 20WMGX2 is out of question ( and I hate glare ), BenQ FP91G+ is too noisy for I have an almost fanless uber-silent pc, Samsung 970p is not imported here in Italy ( omg ) and abroad shipping is expensive.

I was wondering why there's no reviews of Samsung 204b, it's pretty cheap and it has a good response time ... I'm not too enthusiast about widescreen and it's about the only 20'' 5:4 out there.

Someone can tell me if it's a viable option? Should I get a 940b instead?
Thanks to everyone who'll help me out ...

The LG L2000C seems best bang for buck.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: darXoul
The 20" looks like the old S-IPS 16 ms panel. To be confirmed. For sure, it's S-IPS by LG.Philips.

The 24" is the 6 ms g2g / 16 ms on-off S-PVA by Samsung.

TBH, both look like a huge disappointment. The first one doesn't seem like much of an improvement compared to its predecessor, the second one features a panel that seems particularly prone to the infamous input lag (Acer AL2416W, Samsung 244t).

Two more swords in my little "Dell LCDs are overrated" crusade

Dell Is not overrated.

Fantastic stands no one can touch IMO. Rock solid and very flexible and stylish.

How much was Samsung 193P? Dell 1905 same thing hundreds less.

How much were othe S-IPS 20"? Dell 2001 same thing hundreds less.

How much were other S-PIS 20" WS? Dell 2005 same thing hundreds less.

How much is Apple 30"? Dell 3007 same thing hundreds less.

In case you don't notice trend here Dell uses top industry rated panels for hundreds less to the end user

Now the 2405 I feel they made a mistake on - should have used 23" sony and HP is using - but it's still an awesome display for $750 when sales do down.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Zebo
Does'nt anyone think VA's blur more than IPS? I do. My Dell 1905 (same as Samsung 193P) was just an aweful blur master deluxe with S-PVA, worse than Dell2005 by large margin, just aweful - I saw my brothers Gateway 21" it blur like crazy too, also a VA. Maybe they just have more a bell curve going on x-spectrum who knows but I do not recommend VA type displays for gamers. The newer IPS's should be only choice IMO. Followed by TN for budget consious.

IPS panels have always been faster than the MVA/PVA types. With today's overdrive, the MVA/PVAs can achieve maybe around 15 ms lowest but still have dreadful response times in the, though rare, 0-64 pixel range. Since it's so dark it's hard to notice, but if you have one lighter dark color against a darker dark color then it's quite noticeable. Like I said it's not too common most of the time though. IPS has the same problem but to a much lesser extent due to its native response being lower than that of VA's. They don't overdrive too much in the 0-64 area because there would be too many noticeable artifacts, that's my guess anyway. However, MVA/PVA still transmit the most light and are high contrast, and some are 8-bit. They still have wider viewing angles than TN.

There haven't been any overdrive IPS panels that I've been aware of until the NEC LCD20WGX2/20WMGX2 so overdrive+VA remains the best choice for 19". VA itself without overdrive is quite unacceptable, and IPS without overdrive is hardly optimal either.

More info regarding response time of the matrices and other things: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/other/display/lcd-guide.html

 

[pcmodem]

Just got back from perusing Worst Buy (aka Best Buy).

Among the 19" LCDs on display, the NEC 1970GX had the best image, with one caveat: the reflective coating on the NEC's screen will be annoying if lights are near the monitor.

The Samsungs and LGs were about equal, depending on the model.

The best looking 19" in stock for the least amount of money seemed to be the LG L1932TQ. It was around $360 at Worst Buy, so would expect it to be around $299 elsewhere.

Note that at Worst Buy, they were using a still image slideshow, so that's the evaluation's limiting factor (ie, no movies or games).

Yesterday, took a look at Fry's, and the ViewSonic VX924 had the best image of the 19" LCDs, better than the Samsung 940bf. There was an inexpensive NEC too... the model escapes me, but it wasn't the 1970GX... and the NEC was also respectable. Fry's used a fishtank screen saver, again, not a very good way of measuring LCD quality and performance.



Cheers,
PCM

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Vazkor
First of all I'd like to say xtknight's work is AWESOME

Thanks.

I was wondering why there's no reviews of Samsung 204b, it's pretty cheap and it has a good response time ... I'm not too enthusiast about widescreen and it's about the only 20'' 5:4 out there.

Well, for the 204B the response time rating is quite skewed. It's not really any faster than your regular "8 ms g2g" display. It's actually a 4:3 aspect ratio (1600/1200).

Someone can tell me if it's a viable option? Should I get a 940b instead?
Thanks to everyone who'll help me out ...

Like Zebo said the LG L2000C is good. What about price though?

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: Zebo
Does'nt anyone think VA's blur more than IPS? I do. My Dell 1905 (same as Samsung 193P) was just an aweful blur master deluxe with S-PVA, worse than Dell2005 by large margin, just aweful - I saw my brothers Gateway 21" it blur like crazy too, also a VA. Maybe they just have more a bell curve going on x-spectrum who knows but I do not recommend VA type displays for gamers. The newer IPS's should be only choice IMO. Followed by TN for budget consious.

IPS panels have always been faster than the MVA/PVA types. With today's overdrive, the MVA/PVAs can achieve maybe around 15 ms lowest but still have dreadful response times in the, though rare, 0-64 pixel range. Since it's so dark it's hard to notice, but if you have one lighter dark color against a darker dark color then it's quite noticeable. Like I said it's not too common most of the time though. IPS has the same problem but to a much lesser extent due to its native response being lower than that of VA's. They don't overdrive too much in the 0-64 area because there would be too many noticeable artifacts, that's my guess anyway. However, MVA/PVA still transmit the most light and are high contrast, and some are 8-bit. They still have wider viewing angles than TN.

There haven't been any overdrive IPS panels that I've been aware of until the NEC LCD20WGX2/20WMGX2 so overdrive+VA remains the best choice for 19". VA itself without overdrive is quite unacceptable, and IPS without overdrive is hardly optimal either.

More info regarding response time of the matrices and other things: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/other/display/lcd-guide.html

Thanks Xknight - I thought so just did'nt understand why...can always count on you to come though with encyclopedic knowledge of LCDs

 

[Vazkor]

No L2000C here in Italy ... I like the 4:3 aspect ratio of 204b however, I'm not very into the widescreen thing ... budget is under 500 euro.

 

[darXoul]

http://www.lesnumeriques.com/duels.php?ty=6&ma1=36&mo1=101&p1=1021&ma2=52&ph=1

Look here. The 204B isn't as fast as Samsung wants us to believe. In fact, in typical game situations well represented by these screenshots, it looks considerably worse than most TN monitors up to 6 ms, 6 ms VA and overdriven IPS. Speed is supposed to be its biggest strength so I wouldn't buy it, also considering the fact that image quality of TN monitors isn't the most impressive, plus the vertical viewing angle is IMO very annoying, especially in case of a display as large as the 204B.

I live in Poland, and the L2000C is unavailable here as well. The dudes working at LG Poland don't even know IF it will be offered here. When is an even more challenging question for them.

 

[roisin]

anyone knows what panel is HP L2065 using? AUO M201UN02 maybe?

 

[alanelf]

yeah i know buy i have checked my place over here dont have this model...shipping expensive

 

[roisin]

woohaa, they have 2090UXi in the database now: http://www.lesnumeriques.com/duels.php?...=103&p1=1026&ma2=52&mo2=95&p2=969&ph=1

are they using the same images behardware.com/hardware.fr comes up with in their tests? if so, they must have reviewed that new nec, however it doesnt look like it has the same overdrive as 20WGX2, which i hoped it would have

 

[darXoul]

This is exactly what I've been waiting for. Yep, lesnumeriques uses the same stuff as hardware.fr. They might post a review soon... Anyway, it looks like the monitor ghosts quie a bit. Deal breaker?

Damn, I'm about to pull the trigger on the ViewSonic P227fB. I think I'll just order this monster from Germany, since it's not sold in Poland.

I'm crazy, I know that - BUT I need a good allround monitor, also for fast games. It has to be black and basically rock in every department. I guess I'll take the heat and size like a man (my desk has a dedicated mini-desk for monitor) and order the bastard

LOL

Zebo will be surprised

EDIT:

they added the 204B to their 20" LCD roundup. Conclusion: not for games, not for movies. Bleh.

http://www.lesnumeriques.com/article-203-1021-36.html

 

[roisin]

would you be willing to wait for the new 120Hz models? wonder how long will it take, how much more will they cost, and if they will sell both 60Hz and 120Hz versions

 

[Zebo]

NEC does'nt lie should be clear by now - they say 16 ms they mean 16 while Samsumg/Veiwsonic will claim 5 and be 20, 3 and be 12. I'm working on a formula for guys like that, alleged response time in ms * 4 should suffice for now.

Just get NEC WGX2 to tie you over till SED comes. Alternativly you can wait for Phillips 23" review. (12ms)

the 2090UXi colors do look fantastic though!

Damn, I'm about to pull the trigger on the ViewSonic P227f

I never liked invar shadow masks - grainly looking, not bright and poor color compared to AG.. How much is shipping to PL for 2070 I got a fairly new one.

 

[roisin]

so basically only the ² NEC gaming line will have overdrive, damn!

 

[Robocop]

Can I ask anyone if they have experience with Planar? Specifically, the PX2320MW model? I have a PL190M 19" which I have been very happy with and need to upgrade finally. I like the NEC's but have been very happy with my Planar especially the color quality of the monitor Would going to the PX2320 be a good choice?

 

[Zebo]

According to that press release I quoted a while back *ALL* 90 series have overdrive - both NEC's IPS and VA 90's they say! Maybe there is "more" overdrive in ^2 series? More overvolted? Who knows. But NEC used to say 25 MS or even 30 for most of thier pro IPS displays.. http://www.necdisplay.com/corpus/U/7/LCD_matrix0106.pdf
You can do further research on even older models at thier website.

So, they have come down signifigantly - I can only assume because of overdrive.