LCD Buyer's Guide

[Zebo]

Same picture quality, same high quality LGP IPS - 2001FP is larger but 2007FPW is wider. My choice would be 2001 for everything but movies.

 

[Dethfrumbelo]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: xtknight
Here's some NEC 20WMGX2 pics :Q : http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1043429

Pwnage!!! That's exactly how it looks in RL!

I wish I could take pics like this so I could show you guys how strong 20WMGX is over my Dells and 2070 CRT.

Zebo, you'd actually prefer gaming on the NEC over your 2070 + superbright?

How's the texture crawl/shimmer, not as bad as most LCDs?

Can the brightness be turned down to a very low level, acceptable for viewing at ~18"?

The biggest downside may be the resolution. 1680x1050 is not the greatest for CAD, but is probably passable.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Dethfrumbelo

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: xtknight
Here's some NEC 20WMGX2 pics :Q : http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1043429

Pwnage!!! That's exactly how it looks in RL!

I wish I could take pics like this so I could show you guys how strong 20WMGX is over my Dells and 2070 CRT.

Zebo, you'd actually prefer gaming on the NEC over your 2070 + superbright?

How's the texture crawl/shimmer, not as bad as most LCDs?

Can the brightness be turned down to a very low level, acceptable for viewing at ~18"?

The biggest downside may be the resolution. 1680x1050 is not the greatest for CAD, but is probably passable.

That's a good question strictly gaming, no, High end CRT will always be superior in response time by a large margin. Secondly resolution options giving you flexibility with titles and video hardware. With that said the real issue is the panel so fast I no longer notice the motion blur or get used to it. Yes finally. Having to run at native resolution to look good locks your choices out. CRT does'nt have this problem at all. For instance my son is running oblivion at 10x7 on it with his low end video card and it still looks great on now his 2070!

Since no monitor is perfect yet, like all compromises, you choose the best for all things considered which I think the LCD NEC is superior for me. Some things go without saying inherent to LCD tech - like convergence/ text, whites, brightness, profile size etc.. But this NEC LCD is also superior in blacks and color too IMO. Overall use I much perfer the LCD. I could never get the 2070 to have razor sharp text which bugged me ever since I got my first LCD (Dell 2001) but I was willing to put up with it because LCD's were slow. Not anymore..

Fast enough, blacks, razor sharp image, CRT view angles, and great color puts 20WMGX2 over the top.

No Shimmer or crawl. Brightness can be turned way down.. I use 26%. 16x10 may be too small for CAD though. I really can't say how you react comming of a high end CRT but I can say it beats the hell out off any LCD.. Go to frys and pick one up take it for a spin.. you have a month.

 

[CP5670]

How do the blacks look in a dark room? I've found that the CRT's strength in contrast is best seen when there is no ambient lighting. That 20WMGX2 is the first LCD I've heard of that may be a CRT beater in terms of black levels, but just going by its specs and that Behardware comment on the PVA LCDs having better blacks, I'm wondering if the coating (which is only effective when there is some amount of ambient lighting) is actually what's giving it those great black levels in daytime conditions.

 

[DangerDave]

Originally posted by: Zebo
Same picture quality, same high quality LGP IPS - 2001FP is larger but 2007FPW is wider. My choice would be 2001 for everything but movies.

How about a 2001FP vs a 2007FP?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: DangerDave
Whats better a Dell 2001fp or a Dell 2007fp? I'm gonna be using it for gaming and non professional photoshop work, and some movie watching; so basically, overall performance.

Well the 2007FP has been reported to have the gradient problems so I think the 2001FP is better for now. I didn't have much luck finding reviews on the 2007FP. The Dell ****7s are coming up disappointing.

 

[DangerDave]

Cool, thanks. Now I have it narrowed down to 5 lcd candidates.

 

[darXoul]

Another part of my "hunt for perfect monitor" soap opera.

Act I:

I went to a store selling used CRTs. Among tons of different monitors, most of them looking just horrible compared to my 109P4 (which looks like a brand new monitor after two and a half years of use), one managed to draw my attention. Dell P1130. 21", all black, with Sony Trinitron tube. Almost flawless physically, just one minor scratch on the anti glare coating, in the upper left corner. A bit annoying but I could live with it. Turned it on. Still looking great. Vibrant colors, very bright, deep black, sharp picture... not quite. Off center, text looked very blurry, and the monitor's convergce was just poor in corners. Tried to correct it. Nope. Convergence better but text still blurry as hell. Unfortunately, it was the only black P1130. Crap Such a nice looking monitor, not even THAT huge or deep. The text blurriness was a deal breaker. My 109P4 might not be LCD-perfect in corners but it's still pretty sharp. On the Dell, just off-center text was already crap. If all used CRTs look like that, I say no, thanks.

Act II:

I went to my friend who has a NEC 90GX2.

First impressions:

- looks very good, like a real classy, high quality display;
- the glossy panel is not really bothersome when the monitor is turned on - if someone plays darker games or watches movies in a dimly lit or dark room, it is just fine;
- colors are nice and crisp - no apparent banding visible either;
- viewing angle is surprisingly good for a TN display - horizontally, the picture does get a slight yellowish hue and a washed out look but it's not bad; vertically, typical TN stuff (milky-pale up, dark down) but unless someone wants/needs to look at the screen from crazy angles or watch movies with current and former girlfriend, her new guy and his dog, the angles are absolutely OK for a single user - I expected worse;
- no dead pixels, no screen door effect, backlight very good - at max brightness, a slightly brighter stripe visible along the upper edge and a slightly more illuminated lower left corner, but even then, it's barely annoying - at brightness turned down, backlight was very good, and blacks quite nice too (washed out at max brightness, but that's understandable);
- the 5:4 format looks a bit squarish first but it's really large so it's hardly annoying;
- scaling was good on this monitor - text was crap as usual but games looked fine, especially with AA on - even though I don't plan to interpolate, the display handles this aspect of its functionality quite well.

Movie tests:

Fellowship of the Ring / Attack of the Clones - very fast, no ghosting or apparent blur, good colors, staisfying blacks. Some skin tones a bit more "artificial" than on my CRT but my friend uses the out-of-the-box settings so it could improve. Some "square building"/video noise effect clearly visible and even annoying in scenes like e.g. Aragorn contemplating in Rivendell (dark, gloomy scene). Horrible, I thought. Then I came home and noticed some image compression artifacts on my CRT as well, when I looked with a more critical eye. Also, lower brightness reduced the unpleasant effects quite a bit. Overall, I wasn't impressed but it was better than I had expected. Again.

Game tests:

GTA San Andreas - a pretty demanding title for LCDs. In the first cutscene (CJ at the airport) I thought I noticed some yellow ghosting but then, the monitor performed great. I ran around, blasted some fools, drove a few rides and I must say, it was very good and convincing. No problems with blurring, no ghosting visible even when driving real fast. To be honest, I was amazed.

FIFA 06 - difficult game for LCDs with fast camera swings during long through balls, some "x on green" color combinations tend to ghost, just like balls shot from outside the box. Well, it was quite stellar again. No problems whatsoever. Camera swings, powerful shots, long passes. You name it, the LCD does it. Very satisfying experience, way better than expected. Sure it does look a tiny bit different than on CRT but that's due to some faint blur seen on every single LCD. I was afraid of this blur, and it turned out harmless and barely noticeable. If you specifically look for it, it's possible to grasp. Otherwise, you won't even notice it playing.

Freelancer - another hard game for LCDs. Action in space is fast, and there are many dark-bright-dark transitions (stars and shots vs. space). If you want to read your opponent's name displayed at his ship during fast chases and dogfights, it's more difficult than on a CRT for sure. The blur isn't bad though, and the game on the whole looks just great. Blacks were deep enough and ghosting was imperceptible. At this point I was confident that G for gaming was a good name for this monitor. Apparently, it handled whatever I threw at it. BTW, no input lag whatsoever in any game.

Painkiller - last but not least, the Polish succesful FPS that Fatal1ty dominated as well, winning the most important tournament and highest prize vs. Vo0 in the finals. The game is a hardcore, old school, "no bullshit" shooter. No strafe/circle jumps like in Q3 CPMA but very fast and with flight control. To show off my sk1llz a bit I took a few "laps" around the first level (cemetary). Let me tell you - performance was again flawless. No ghosting, no blur. I couldn't test the stake gun (sort of closer range rail) to see the real aiming efficiency, but I can say that I'm convinced it would be good because playing with someone else's keyboard and mouse, and on LCD (OMG!), game movement and aim were both absolutely fine.

So, lengthy, but that's it. Is it a perfect monitor? Nope. Viewing angles are OK but could be better for ultimate allround, CRT-like use. The same with blacks. But hey, it's an LCD. Movie playback was a little disappointing with quite a bit of noise especially in darker scenes with uniform backgrounds but adjusted settings can really minimize it. For gaming, it's just awesome for an LCD and damn close to CRT. This is coming from a CRT guy who has never owned a real LCD apart from his laptop and cellphone and saw quite a few LCDs in games (193P+, 2405FPW, 2005FPW, 204B, 960BF, VX924 - saw it this week: good speed but colors, blacks and viewing angles suck, VP930B and a few others) and was pretty disappointed on the whole.

This monitor shouldn't disappoint gamers. Unless you are a purist expecting 125 fps and perfect image sharpness when at speed 700 in Q3 CPMA, you shouldn't be afraid of the 70/90GX2 for gaming. It's 100% gaming-certified by darXoul aka Darius-PvP in Diablo2 aka dx>drizzt in Q3 CPMA

Unless a miracle happens and a sharply focused Dell P1130 CRT lands on my desk, I'm getting the 90GX2. It's that good. I just need to test a few more movie scenes to make sure the digital "squarification" won't kill my watching pleasure. I doubt it though. Therefore, an excellent gaming monitor usable also as an allrounder - this is my preliminary verdict.

 

[Zebo]

Nice review Dar and you can save money on video card (being 12x10) and get that GT instead of GTX.

Personally I think 5:4 is even less standard than WS but to each his own. If you can handle glossy of 90gx2 then you can handle glossy of 20gx2 and its superior in every way.

edit spelling

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: darXoul
Unless a miracle happens and a sharply focused Dell P1130 CRT lands on my desk, I'm getting the 90GX2. It's that good. I just need to test a few more movie scenes to make sure the digital "squarification" won't kill my watching pleasure. I doubt it though. Therefore, an excellent gaming monitor usable also as an allrounder - this is my preliminary verdict.

*evil voice* another CRT user converted...muwahahhah



Good, I'm glad you like it. I bet the NEC 20WMGX2 is even better than that.

 

[darXoul]

Zebo, I expect my MSI X1900XTX to arrive tomorrow. I'm installing the Accelero X2 on it, and off we go

5:4 being less standard than 16:10, I just don't agree Most games support 1280*1024 natively - if not, I can use 1280*960 with black horizontal bars (hopefully it works on ATi) and I'll still have a large viewable area. On a 20" ws, if the game doesn't support ws (out of the examples I tested, FIFA 06 is unusable on 16:10 and Freelancer as well), I will have a damn small screen. That's just bad.

Besides, movie playback on IPS isn't really any better than on TN in terms of noise, plus the monitor could turn out noticeably slower in fastest games (6/12 vs. 4/8 response times), even if behardware.com claims it's not. I've seen reports by users who say that ghosting is pretty much the same (read: barely there in any situation) but blur was considerably more noticeable. I'm a bit afraid of that as well.

Colors might be a bit more natural, but seriously, on this particular TN, you can't complain. I think it's listed at 16.77M for a good reason.

The only real advantage would be viewing angles but like I said, contrary to what I had expected, they are not a big issue on the 90GX2 for a single user who can stare at the monitor from a sane, normal angle Paper specs say nothing in this case. I've seen the VX924 side-by-side with the 90GX2 in store and I'm sure as hell that especially the vertical was clearly and apparently worse on the ViewSonic. Maybe OptiClear has some advantages in terms of perceived light polarization, no idea.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: darXoul
Zebo, I expect my MSI X1900XTX to arrive tomorrow. I'm installing the Accelero X2 on it, and off we go

5:4 being less standard than 16:10, I just don't agree Most games support 1280*1024 natively - if not, I can use 1280*960 with black horizontal bars (hopefully it works on ATi) and I'll still have a large viewable area. On a 20" ws, if the game doesn't support ws (out of the examples I tested, FIFA 06 is unusable on 16:10 and Freelancer as well), I will have a damn small screen. That's just bad.

Besides, movie playback on IPS isn't really any better than on TN in terms of noise, plus the monitor could turn out noticeably slower in fastest games (6/12 vs. 4/8 response times), even if behardware.com claims it's not. I've seen reports by users who say that ghosting is pretty much the same (read: barely there in any situation) but blur was considerably more noticeable. I'm a bit afraid of that as well.

Colors might be a bit more natural, but seriously, on this particular TN, you can't complain. I think it's listed at 16.77M for a good reason.

The only real advantage would be viewing angles but like I said, contrary to what I had expected, they are not a big issue on the 90GX2 for a single user who can stare at the monitor from a sane, normal angle Paper specs say nothing in this case. I've seen the VX924 side-by-side with the 90GX2 in store and I'm sure as hell that especially the vertical was clearly and apparently worse on the ViewSonic. Maybe OptiClear has some advantages in terms of perceived light polarization, no idea.

You may have a small screen when scaled but it will be much more detailed. Personally I don't see how you can stand the huge pixels of a 19" I can actually see them from 3 ft away. "the only real advantage" LOL only? As far as IQ it's night and day between 90 and 20. You really need to do a side by side. Black blacks, true color, whiter whites. It's not even close.

 

[darXoul]

xtknight, I still have some time before my other parts arrive so there is still a chance I can resist the dark side's lure

The rational question that comes up now is of course: OK, the LCD is good indeed but what real advantages does it offer in comparison to my CRT? Is it worth spending 500 bucks just to get something modern-looking on my desktop? Hmmm... It also vastly depends on the selection available in store. If I get this LCD, I want one with perfect backlight and (sub)pixels. I'll also play a bit more with settings, especially brightness.

 

[darXoul]

Originally posted by: Zebo

You may have a small screen when scaled but it will be much more detailed. Personally I don't see how you can stand the huge pixels of a 19" I can actually see them from 3 ft away. "the only real advantage" LOL only? As far as IQ it's night and day between 90 and 20. You really need to do a side by side. Black blacks, true color, whiter whites. It's not even close.

I'll compare them side by side for sure. I want to know my decision is the right one before making the choice. I'll also look at the pixels a bit more. At my friend's place, they were not an issue but admittedly, I focused on ghosting/blur. What I know for sure is that I like the larger fonts in Windows and games.

 

[Dethfrumbelo]

Personally, I don't see how anyone can stand 1280x1024 on a 19" monitor. It looks like Legos to me and no amount of AA can restore the lost texture detail.

My field of view extends more side-to-side than top-to-bottom, so I never really see the top 1/5 of the top or bottom of the screen when gaming. Widescreen is a more natural fit to one's FOV, much less wasted space.

If I were you, I'd go for the 20WMGX2. I've seen some European retailers selling it for around 500 euros or less. Think of it this way - when you go to sell it down the road, it'll probably hold its value better than any LCD out there today.

 

[silrais2]

I had a pair of LG Flatron L1920PQs overnighted to me and will be giving them a test run over the next few days. Information on this particular model is elusive at best, but they seem to fit my requirements quite well.

For $250, you get a well designed LCD featuring a 8ms S-IPS panel and all cables included. I've not yet torn the case apart to verify the exact model number, but my initial impression is good overall. Both monitors suffer some backlight bleed at the top and bottom, but it tends to fade after being on for awhile. Colors are vibrant, and while I haven't yet calibrated them, they appear pretty accurate out of the box.

They are currently replacing a pair of Dell 1905FPs for general office tasks and video playback. Providing my testing goes well, I'll probably be ordering another pair to replace my aging Dell P1130 CRTs for gaming and image editing.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: silrais2
I had a pair of LG Flatron L1920PQs overnighted to me and will be giving them a test run over the next few days. Information on this particular model is elusive at best, but they seem to fit my requirements quite well.

For $250, you get a well designed LCD featuring a 8ms S-IPS panel and all cables included. I've not yet torn the case apart to verify the exact model number, but my initial impression is good overall. Both monitors suffer some backlight bleed at the top and bottom, but it tends to fade after being on for awhile. Colors are vibrant, and while I haven't yet calibrated them, they appear pretty accurate out of the box.

They are currently replacing a pair of Dell 1905FPs for general office tasks and video playback. Providing my testing goes well, I'll probably be ordering another pair to replace my aging Dell P1130 CRTs for gaming and image editing.

Good to hear, but it looks like the 1920PQ is only a TN panel to me.

 

[sokos]

guys I need your help urgently..
I m helping out a friend with his netcafe (gaming mostly) and we are looking for monitors 19".
They are for games so they must be >=8ms, have a DVI connector (isn't it better than VGA) and cost not more than 400USD.
I saw a very nice LCD at viewsonic website, the VP920 got one yesterday to play with it and what a dissapointment.
When you scroll around windows there is an orange color trailing the fonts and borders! (Please keep in mind that I ve been working a lot with TFT's in my life, got a Dell 193P at office, a Philips 190X6 at home and used to own a LG1915S which I sold. At gaming things are better with the Viewsonic VP920, but it's colors and performance in Windows has really dissapointed me
Do you think I should do some tuning at Windows? I run a XFX 7900GT Extreme, but I tried it on other PC's with VGA 15pin cable and same terrible movement .. (titles trailing at scrolling webpages etc..)

Today I m buying a BenQ FP91G+, as I read some good comments on it so lets see how it goes..

What would you buy if you where in my shoes for the netcafe?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: sokos
Do you think I should do some tuning at Windows? I run a XFX 7900GT Extreme, but I tried it on other PC's with VGA 15pin cable and same terrible movement .. (titles trailing at scrolling webpages etc..)

Today I m buying a BenQ FP91G+, as I read some good comments on it so lets see how it goes..

What would you buy if you where in my shoes for the netcafe?

Some LCDs have that problem. It's due to their poorly-controlled "overdrive" functions. I guess the VP920 is one to avoid. I have the VP930, and it does not occur on any web pages as far as I can tell. I have had it turn up in Winamp a few times when scrolling through a play list with a funky skin, and a tad bit in Battlefield 2, despite getting an "A" rating on this factor from Tom's Hardware. The ClearType which creates a couple red, orangish artifacts due to its nature is made clear when you scroll the text. Disabling ClearType does fix this problem, but it might crop up in other places as well.

I'd buy the Samsung 940b. I believe it uses a different panel from the VP920 so you are safer in getting one that doesn't have the same problem. Also it doesn't have those crazy "4 ms" response times, which should mean they eased up on that overdrive function a little bit and there shouldn't be a problem (although I'm definitely not sure). The VP920 is new and performance details on it are sparse so thanks for reporting that it has this problem. The case with the VP920 is probably much worse than the VP930's problems.

 

[silrais2]

quote:Originally posted by: xtknight
Good to hear, but it looks like the 1920PQ is only a TN panel to me.

Can you tell me where you found this? Three people at LG have 'confirmed' it's S-IPS, but I'll look into it further. In the end I'll probably remove the casing to find out, but any extra information on the monitors would be helpful.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: silrais2

Originally posted by: xtknight
Good to hear, but it looks like the 1920PQ is only a TN panel to me.

Can you tell me where you found this? Three people at LG have 'confirmed' it's S-IPS, but I'll look into it further. In the end I'll probably remove the casing to find out, but any extra information on the monitors would be helpful.

I don't know but I believe they list their S-IPS panels as 178 degree viewing angles, VA ones as 176 degree viewing angles, and TN ones at anything lower than that. Also, I have never seen S-IPS panel LCDs for lower than $400 or so. An easy way to tell is to look from the bottom and see if the picture inverts or is otherwise horrifically dark. If it does it's a TN. If not, it's either a VA or IPS. If blacks turn a violet hue when you look to the side, it's an IPS. If not, it's a VA.

 

[sokos]

Originally posted by: xtknight


Some LCDs have that problem. It's due to their poorly-controlled "overdrive" functions. I guess the VP920 is one to avoid. I have the VP930, and it does not occur on any web pages as far as I can tell. I have had it turn up in Winamp a few times when scrolling through a play list with a funky skin, and a tad bit in Battlefield 2, despite getting an "A" rating on this factor from Tom's Hardware. The ClearType which creates a couple red, orangish artifacts due to its nature is made clear when you scroll the text. Disabling ClearType does fix this problem, but it might crop up in other places as well.

I'd buy the Samsung 940b. I believe it uses a different panel from the VP920 so you are safer in getting one that doesn't have the same problem. Also it doesn't have those crazy "4 ms" response times, which should mean they eased up on that overdrive function a little bit and there shouldn't be a problem (although I'm definitely not sure). The VP920 is new and performance details on it are sparse so thanks for reporting that it has this problem. The case with the VP920 is probably much worse than the VP930's problems.

Too bad I couldn't find a review with the problems I m facing with the VP920.
Do you think it sacrifices Windows good quality picture & movement for faster responce in games? Or in Games it's going to be as bad?
Well since I was the unlucky one I hope fellow readers will be careful of this monitor.
I m really eager to get my hands on the BenQ FP91G+.
What are your comments on that one?

The Samsung looks good but it's pricey

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: sokos
Too bad I couldn't find a review with the problems I m facing with the VP920.
Do you think it sacrifices Windows good quality picture & movement for faster responce in games? Or in Games it's going to be as bad?
Well since I was the unlucky one I hope fellow readers will be careful of this monitor.
I m really eager to get my hands on the BenQ FP91G+.
What are your comments on that one?

The Samsung looks good but it's pricey

I have added the VP920 to the LCDs with bad Overdrive side effects section.

The issue could very well come up in games as well. It's actually making stuff overly sharp in motion as a sacrifice to eliminate any type of blurring behind that object whatsoever. I think most would rather have the slight blurring than the color artifacts from being too sharp.

I actually recommend the FP91G+ so you could give that one a try. I don't think it would have the same problem as the VP920. But I have not seen either in motion.

 

[sokos]

LG 19" LCD 1970H-BF
LG 19" LCD 1932P-BN
PHILIPS LCD 19" 190X6/FB
------------------------------
What about these babies? What film do they wear and have we got any feedback on their gaming abilities?
The two LG's are brand new models here in Greece, costing about 360euros

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: sokos
LG 19" LCD 1970H-BF
LG 19" LCD 1932P-BN
PHILIPS LCD 19" 190X6/FB
------------------------------
What about these babies? What film do they wear and have we got any feedback on their gaming abilities?
The two LG's are brand new models here in Greece, costing about 360euros

If you don't want the same problem I'd avoid the 1932P-BN because it lists a "4 ms response time", typical of the faulty-overdrive LCDs.

I don't believe any of those monitors are available in the US and I haven't heard of them but I think the LG L1970H-BF would be a good choice. The Philips is probably fine too. They likely use the exact same "TN" panel (internals).

Wait a minute...the LG L1970H-BF is one of the new LGs with the high contrast. Go for that one!