LCD Buyer's Guide

[Stonemason]

I am looking into buying a monitor (19", using for gaming and movies) soon, and I have a few questions. I would love to get either the Samsung 970p or the Viewsonic VP930, but they are a bit out of my price range. I have a couple of good deals on the following:

BenQ FP91v
Samsung 940b
Viewsonic vx924

Now, I've gathered that these monitors are faster than the previous 2, but they lack colour definition and black level. Is this true? If it is (or isn't), would I really notice the difference between the two? If I should opt for the cheaper variety, which do I choose? Or, if you have any other suggestions that would fit the price range (around $350 USD), I would apprecate it.

 

[Keeir]

Originally posted by: Stonemason
I am looking into buying a monitor (19", using for gaming and movies) soon, and I have a few questions. I would love to get either the Samsung 970p or the Viewsonic VP930, but they are a bit out of my price range. I have a couple of good deals on the following:

BenQ FP91v
Samsung 940b
Viewsonic vx924

Now, I've gathered that these monitors are faster than the previous 2, but they lack colour definition and black level. Is this true? If it is (or isn't), would I really notice the difference between the two? If I should opt for the cheaper variety, which do I choose? Or, if you have any other suggestions that would fit the price range (around $350 USD), I would apprecate it.

TN panels in general lack 3 things:
#1. Viewing Angle (Although it is certainly sufficent for 1-2 people viewing)
#2. Black Level is "high" (won't really notice if you play in a well lighted room)
#3. Color Depth, 6-bit as opposed to 8-bit. This one is tricky because it really depends on what you are used too... most displays aren't very accurate after time so people can and do get used to colors that aren't entirely accurate/wide range. After proper calibration/adjsutment, the majority of people will not notice a significant difference between 6-bit and 8-bit.

As to specific monitors, I have worked with a few Viewsonics and Samsungs over the years and trust thier brands more than BenQ.

 

[Keeir]

Originally posted by: martensite
Xtknight, TY.
I had not considered the 740B, but I'll give it a good look now. If the image quality is far better for the 740B, I might opt for it instead.

You may want to consider the Viewsonic VX724 if you care about fast response time the most. In the US, its cheaper than the VP730. As to the VP171b and the VP730b, I think it may have been a QA/yield issue or may just be to be consistent with the change from VP191b to VP930b which was an improvement.

 

[Stonemason]

Originally posted by: Keeir

TN panels in general lack 3 things:
#1. Viewing Angle (Although it is certainly sufficent for 1-2 people viewing)
#2. Black Level is "high" (won't really notice if you play in a well lighted room)
#3. Color Depth, 6-bit as opposed to 8-bit. This one is tricky because it really depends on what you are used too... most displays aren't very accurate after time so people can and do get used to colors that aren't entirely accurate/wide range. After proper calibration/adjsutment, the majority of people will not notice a significant difference between 6-bit and 8-bit.

As to specific monitors, I have worked with a few Viewsonics and Samsungs over the years and trust thier brands more than BenQ.

Thanks for the advice. I'm coming from a CRT so do you think I will notice the difference between 6- and 8-bit?

 

[Ankle]

Gateway FPD2185W experience:

Specs:
21"
1680x1050
8ms g-to-g
1000:1
178 degree viewing angles

I've gone through two of them in a week and returned both.

The black levels are good as far as LCDs go, but pretty horrible compared to CRT. Really bothered me trying to watch movies and play dark games such as FEAR or X3.

No dead/stuck pixels on either panel and no back light bleeding. The brightness seemed uniform over both.

The corners tend to wash out when looking directly at the monitor and the area being viewed directly looses its detail unless you look at it from an angle.

Horrible banding. Any gradient black/white transition will show this. Any dark area looks like 3-5 different solid shades of grey rather than a smooth transition. Absolutely unacceptable for graphics work, gaming in dark/grey coloured games, and movies.

The colour on the first panel was good with minimal calibration, however, the second panel made all the greys look pink and no matter how I adjusted the colours. I could not get rid of the pink tint to all the greys.

The ergonomic features of the monitor is great. Haven't seen a better stand myself. The second unit would not rotate correctly and would sit on a funny tilt that was beyond 90 degrees. Cable management is less than great, but it does exist.

As far as motion trails/blur and ghosting goes, I could not see any. I played some Tribes as it was the fastest paced game I could think of in my library off hand.

Interpolation looks pretty bad. I wouldn't use anything but the native resolution.

Conclusion: I cannot recommend this monitor because of the banding. I would have probably have settled for the first panel if it not suffer banding as I don't know of any other displays that would have been any better other than going back to CRT.

 

[xtknight]

Ankle: have you had a similar experience with other LCDs or was it just the Gateway?

 

[Ankle]

As far as the washout/loosing details go, I've experianced them on all the samsung panels. The larger they are, the more I have noticed the washout. I have never seen the banding before, though.

 

[xtknight]

Added info on NVIDIA PureVideo LCD Overdrive. Sounds neat.

 

[Luddite]

This is a fantastic sticky xtkight. Thanks very much for your research and hard work!

I was just wondering about something.....

Considerations

[*]1. Accuracy of color (6-bit or 8-bit?)
[*]2. Speed of crystals (response time)
[*]3. Black level
[*]4. Viewing angle

Today's types of panels

[*]TN (Twisted Nematic)+Film: This type of panel delivers the fastest pixel transition (minimal "ghosting" effects) at the expense of inferior viewing angles and loss of color gamut. Lower contrast. This type of panel must use dithering or frame rate control (FRC) to virtually reach 16.2 million colors.

[*]S-PVA (Super Patterned Vertical Alignment/Samsung): Typically has very slow response time, but excellent color accuracy (8-bit) and viewing angles, second only to S-IPS. Best contrast. The response time of this type can be made-up for by a technology called feedforward driving, invented by Mitsubishi Electric. This same tech can also drive down the response times of any other panels. More on this later.

[*]P-MVA (Premium Multi-Domain Vertical Alignment/AU Optronics): Very similar to S-PVA, except manufactured by AU Optronics. I'll refer to both as S-PVA hereafter.

[*]S-MVA (Super Multi-Domain Vertical Alignment/Chi Mei Optoelectronics): Very similar to S-PVA, except manufactured by Chi Mei Optoelectronics. I'll refer to both as S-PVA hereafter.

[*]S-IPS (Super In Plane Switching/LG+Philips): Typically demands a price premium, however this type of panel delivers excellent viewing angle, CRT-like colors, and has a response time somewhere inbetween TN and modern VA technologies. However the contrast does suffer a bit on this display. Eizo's ColorEdge monitors mostly use this type of panel for their excellent gamut and minimal viewing angle distortion.

PROFESSIONAL PHOTO EDITING
Note: This is if you work professionally as a graphics designer and need picture-perfect colors. You do not need these by any means for casual off-and-on photo editing!
->S-IPS[+Overdrive]+10-bit gamma LUT+LED backlit
->S-PVA+Overdrive+10-bit gamma LUT+LED backlit

....For color accuracy, would an S-PVA panel and an S-IPS panel be similar, or does one have a slight edge over the other? In other words, is there any difference relative to color accuracy why a rating of 1-1-3-1 [S-IPS recomended panel] would be a "photo editor's dream come true" while a 1-1-1-1 [S-PVA recommended panel with overdrive] would be an "everything the best possible" ??

...specific models coming soon

I am also eagerly awaiting your recomendations for specific models for photo editing, although I am more of a prosumer than a pro, and would probably do well with a consumer level panel that has high color accuracy for its price point.

Here is my situation: Looking to move from a CRT to LCD within the next couple of months (tired of eye strain, etc.). I surf a lot, do a lot of online research, and so need something that has great, sharp text. I game little to none, so don't need a fast panel. I also do a fair amount of photo editing, but it's not critical color work for professional layouts, just a hobby that I would like to get better at.

I am leaning towards a size 20" model and a 4:3 ratio, as I like the sharper pixel pitch at the 1600 X 1200 resolution.

Any suggestions would be highly appreciated.

Thanks again for this thread.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Luddite
This is a fantastic sticky xtkight. Thanks very much for your research and hard work!

I was just wondering about something.....

...

....For color accuracy, would an S-PVA panel and an S-IPS panel be similar, or does one have a slight edge over the other? In other words, is there any difference relative to color accuracy why a rating of 1-1-3-1 [S-IPS recomended panel] would be a "photo editor's dream come true" while a 1-1-1-1 [S-PVA recommended panel with overdrive] would be an "everything the best possible" ??

...

I am also eagerly awaiting your recomendations for specific models for photo editing, although I am more of a prosumer than a pro, and would probably do well with a consumer level panel that has high color accuracy for its price point.

Here is my situation: Looking to move from a CRT to LCD within the next couple of months (tired of eye strain, etc.). I surf a lot, do a lot of online research, and so need something that has great, sharp text. I game little to none, so don't need a fast panel. I also do a fair amount of photo editing, but it's not critical color work for professional layouts, just a hobby that I would like to get better at.

I am leaning towards a size 20" model and a 4:3 ratio, as I like the sharper pixel pitch at the 1600 X 1200 resolution.

Any suggestions would be highly appreciated.

Thanks again for this thread.

No problem...

Yeah I confused myself a bit there.

According to the X-Bit Labs Contemporary LCDs article, the S-IPS panels will give you CRT-like warm color and better viewing angles. So that's why S-IPS would be better for photo editing. Though it's in the middle as to contrast so it's hard to say. Since Eizo uses S-IPS panels in their ColorEdge series (probably for a reason), that's why I chose S-IPS.

X-bit?s Guide: Contemporary LCD Monitor Parameters and Characteristics (page 23)

As for advantages, the IPS technology has always been better than TN+Film in terms of color reproduction and viewing angles. In fact, S-IPS matrices leave no chance to other LCD technologies in the color-reproduction quality. They have soft and pleasant colors, which are natural and close to high-quality CRT monitors. That?s why all LCD monitors for professional work with color are based on S-IPS matrices, starting from relatively inexpensive to hi-end models of the Eizo ColorEdge series with integrated tools for custom hardware color-calibration.

For "best all around", I chose S-PVA/Overdrive because it's much more abundant and cheaper among LCDs than S-IPS/Overdrive, essentially...it does have more contrast than S-IPS as well.

(I'll probably do away with that confusing numeric recommendations thing and just have people ask in here. I'm always here to answer.)

I think these LCDs would be great for photo-editing:

LG L2013P 20.1"

Dell UltraSharp 2001FP (often comes with big coupons!)

BenQ FP2091

These all use the LG.Philips 8-bit S-IPS LM201U04 panel. Only the LG LCD above has a program called forteManager that allows you to adjust colors with software. Hopefully one of these will fall within your price range, but maybe not. I haven't researched any of those LCDs so I recommend you look at reviews of them just to make sure one's not an awful outlier.

 

[Ricky Ricardo]

Great buyer's guide xknight. Thanks for the effort.

I'm shopping for 2-19" LCD monitors.

For "best all around", I chose S-PVA/Overdrive because it's much more abundant and cheaper among LCDs than S-IPS/Overdrive, essentially...it does have more contrast than S-IPS as well.

Other than the ViewSonic VP930B or Samsung 970P what other 19" S-PVA/overdrive monitors are available? I searched www.flatpanels.dk using S-PVA as the search term and no other 19" monitors showed up. I might go for the 970P if it was available with a black bezel.

With that said, I think an S-IPS would work best for me. I need sharp, clear text, will be watching TV and DVDs, occasionally doing some photo editing and my wife occasionally does some 2-D cad work. No gaming.

This NEC LCD1970NX looks pretty good. It has a 19 inch 18 ms S-IPS (LM190E01-C4 / LM190E02) panel. I found this one review and it is not very favorable. Is anyone here familiar with this monitor? This NEC LCD1980FXi-BK looks very nice, has a 19 inch 18 ms S-IPS (LG.Philips LM190E05-SL02) panel but it's kinda pricey.

Thanks

Rick

 

[xtknight]

Ricky Ricardo:

Welcome to the forums.

Other S-PVA/Overdrive include:

Samsung 193P+ (defunct version of Samsung 970P)
ViewSonic VP191b (defunct version of ViewSonic VP930b)
Samsung 913TM (fairly sure)

Search for just 'PVA' and 'MVA' and look for low "g2g" response times.

I too think an S-IPS would be good for you. Since Samsung does not do S-IPS LCDs, my first choice would be an LG because of their forteManager software that allows you to adjust the display via software. They are also very thin and stylish. Picture quality would generally be equivalant among LCDs using the same panel.

The LG.Philips LM190E02 panel looks like their latest S-IPS, so you'll want that one. If you search for that on flatpanels.dk it gives you a good list of LG LCDs that use it.

 

[Luddite]

Thanks for the photo editing monitor recommendations, xtknight.

Someone here also mentioned the Dell 2007FPW. Do you, or anyone else, have any advanced info on this model ? I presume this will also be an S-IPS panel ?

 

[Ricky Ricardo]

Thanks for the additional information xknight!
I'll check it out.

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

Right now i am comparing the 214T Samsung(http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824001210) to the VX922 Viewsonic (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824116375). When I buy a LCD it will be my first. I've been only looking at articles for the last 2-3 days. Any Pros want to give me a few pointers/tips on what would be better for Gaming? My hangup is, I want a large 21.3 screen (samsung) but would not want to get ghosting. Which leaves me the Viewsonic. Please help.

Thanks,

BTRY B 529th FA BN

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Luddite
Thanks for the photo editing monitor recommendations, xtknight.

Someone here also mentioned the Dell 2007FPW. Do you, or anyone else, have any advanced info on this model ? I presume this will also be an S-IPS panel ?

Nothing for sure. It'll probably just be a later revision of the currently-used LG.Philips S-IPS LG.Philips LM201W01 panel. Probably with HDCP thru DVI support. New aesthetics I'm guessing.

Specs very likely to be (at least):

Size: 20.1"
Resolution: 1680x1050
Panel: 8-bit S-IPS/72% color saturation
Luminance: 300 cd/m²
Contrast ratio: 600:1
Response time: 8 ms. g2g (through overdrive?) [ 16 ms. bwb original ]
Viewing Angle [°,U/D/L/R] 178/178(CR=10) (S-IPS)

Though those are just specs of the currently-used panel. They will be at least that good, except response time which I took a guess on. I'll make a conjecture the contrast ratio will be higher, maybe 1000:1 ("rated"). Brightness maybe 350 nits instead. Then again maybe they will use the same panel but just HDCP and new aesthetics/ergonomics.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: BTRY B 529th FA BN
Right now i am comparing the 214T Samsung(http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824001210) to the VX922 Viewsonic (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824116375). When I buy a LCD it will be my first. I've been only looking at articles for the last 2-3 days. Any Pros want to give me a few pointers/tips on what would be better for Gaming? My hangup is, I want a large 21.3 screen (samsung) but would not want to get ghosting. Which leaves me the Viewsonic. Please help.

Thanks,

BTRY B 529th FA BN

The Samsung 214T's response time should be almost as good in reality. If the X-Bit Labs review I read today is any indication, the TN will edge it out on transitions within color levels 0-50 which aren't very common (hence the adoption of gray-to-gray, or light-gray-dark-gray-light-gray). That would mean very subtle transitions like dark orange to medium-dark orange, or dark gray to black. You may come across it in games with light shading, but when it blurs within that range it's so unnoticeable anyway.

Suppose in a game you have a wall and you're looking at it at a 45 degree angle. Then suppose a not-so-bright light source is like 175 degrees to that wall shining at it from the wall's right. Well the gradient produced by the light on that wall will likely comprise of transitions between 0-50 (maybe more in which case there is no problem). When that light moves, the gradient moves too. But within 0-50 at least I can't discern much difference on my LCD. Thus when it blurs together you will hardly notice it. Suppose the edge of that wall is black and it's right in front of a light blue sky, and the wall is moving. Well the black->light blue transition should be fairly fast on the VA+Overdrive LCD assuming Overdrive was done correctly (from what I interpreted from X-Bit Labs' graphs), so you will see minimal blur as the black edge of the wall moves on that light blue sky. Yeah, a mouthful, I know.

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: BTRY B 529th FA BN
Right now i am comparing the 214T Samsung(http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824001210) to the VX922 Viewsonic (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824116375). When I buy a LCD it will be my first. I've been only looking at articles for the last 2-3 days. Any Pros want to give me a few pointers/tips on what would be better for Gaming? My hangup is, I want a large 21.3 screen (samsung) but would not want to get ghosting. Which leaves me the Viewsonic. Please help.

Thanks,

BTRY B 529th FA BN

The Samsung 214T's response time should be almost as good in reality. If the X-Bit Labs review I read today is any indication, the TN will edge it out on transitions within color levels 0-50 which aren't very common (hence the adoption of gray-to-gray, or light-gray-dark-gray-light-gray). That would mean very subtle transitions like dark orange to medium-dark orange, or dark gray to black. You may come across it in games with light shading, but when it blurs within that range it's so unnoticeable anyway.

Suppose in a game you have a wall and you're looking at it at a 45 degree angle. Then suppose a not-so-bright light source is like 175 degrees to that wall shining at it from the wall's right. Well the gradient produced by the light on that wall will likely comprise of transitions between 0-50 (maybe more in which case there is no problem). When that light moves, the gradient moves too. But within 0-50 at least I can't discern much difference on my LCD. Thus when it blurs together you will hardly notice it. Suppose the edge of that wall is black and it's right in front of a light blue sky, and the wall is moving. Well the black->light blue transition should be fairly fast on the VA+Overdrive LCD assuming Overdrive was done correctly (from what I interpreted from X-Bit Labs' graphs), so you will see minimal blur as the black edge of the wall moves on that light blue sky. Yeah, a mouthful, I know.

what would you recommend? and yeah, hehe, that was a mouthfull!

Thanks,

BTRY B 529th FA BN

 

[xtknight]

The Samsung 214T will be a great gaming monitor. It's possible the Dell 2001FP will deliver faster response times, though I'm not sure if the Dell 2001FP uses Overdrive like the Samsung 214T does. I'm fairly certain the Dell 2001FP does not use the overdriving circuit, leaving the Samsung 214T the fastest.

 

[xtknight]

New info on 30" widescreen Dell UltraSharp 3007WFP!

http://www1.us.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/brand/3007wfp?c=u
http://img.dell.com/images/global/brand/subpage/monitor3007wfp_splash.jpg

Native resolution: 2560x1600
Response time: 11 ms. (black-white-black?)
Contrast ratio: 700:1
Luminance: 400 cd/m²

I'm thinking it uses this panel now due to response and luminance/contrast claims.
http://www.samsung.com/Products/TFTLCD/...ors_n_Industrial/LTM300M1/LTM300M1.htm

Might possibly use the LG.Philips S-IPS LM201U04 panel. However Dell's 2405FPW uses a Samsung S-PVA.
http://www.lgphilips-lcd.com/homeContain/jsp/eng/prd/prd200_j_e.jsp

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

Thanks partner

Pure 529th

 

[harobikes333]

Hello, thnx for writing this guide!!! I read it and it helped me some what but I still haven't choosen a monitor


This is what my needs would be for the LCD:
everyday use

no professional video or photo editing so not insanely picky

no ghosting <--I'd like to have a LCD that doesn't ghost enough to have a person notice it

I'm looking for the most for my money. I've thought about a 19in LCD and a 17in LCD and I can't really decide which size to get. Right now I've got a hp pavilion mx50 CRT so an LCD will be nice

19in LCDs are just 17in lcds blown up right...? or......

Do any of these monitors look good?

Benq 19in 8ms

Samsung 19in 8ms

Viewsonic 19in 3ms gray to gray 6ms black to white

I'm on a budget so I'm trying to get the best for my money.

 

[Eyeless Blond]

(Reposted from new thread, as it seems it scrolls off the first page pretty quickly.)

So, it seems I'm getting a last-minute Christmas gift of a 19" flat panel, which is very good as my current 17" Gateway EV700 is getting old. To keep it simple I'm limiting myself to what's available at Costco and Sam's Club, as the 'rents tend to go there often and they've got good return policies in case something better comes up in the sales next week. Here's the ones I'm choosing between for now:

Samsung 916V

Sceptre X9G-NagaV

Viewsonic VA1912wb

Princeton VL1918

The problem is I'm partially-sighted, and not much into FPS-type gaming so most of the considerations everyone else has over a monitor (low ghosting, high resolution) don't really apply. What I'm really looking for is a monitor that:

-does well with *low* screen resolutions (800x600 or 1024x768 max). I'm not up on current tech, but I do remember that LCDs used to have problems displaying lower-than-optimum resolutions.
-Has a decent black-level and good contrast, to prevent eye fatigue.
-Good viewing angles, pretty much for the same reason and because my face is typically closer to the screen than most people.
-Good color couldn't hurt.

So, of those monitors what would be the best to get? Any suggestions for other monitors to look at at different B&M stores?

(Edit): Oh, and all four of the above cost about the same where I've seen them: ~$299-ish. I'm leaning toward the Spectre at the moment, but more than willing to look elsewhere.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: harobikes333
Hello, thnx for writing this guide!!! I read it and it helped me some what but I still haven't choosen a monitor


This is what my needs would be for the LCD:
everyday use

no professional video or photo editing so not insanely picky

no ghosting <--I'd like to have a LCD that doesn't ghost enough to have a person notice it

I'm looking for the most for my money. I've thought about a 19in LCD and a 17in LCD and I can't really decide which size to get. Right now I've got a hp pavilion mx50 CRT so an LCD will be nice

19in LCDs are just 17in lcds blown up right...? or......

Do any of these monitors look good?

Benq 19in 8ms

Samsung 19in 8ms

Viewsonic 19in 3ms gray to gray 6ms black to white

I'm on a budget so I'm trying to get the best for my money.

VX924 looks like the best for your money. It seems to have the least ghosting problems of the 19" fast TNs. 19" LCDs (all that I've heard of) are 1280x1024 and so are 17"s, so yeah, just bigger pixels, not more resolution.

 

[harobikes333]

o? ok thnx