LCD Buyer's Guide

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imported_Loque

Junior Member
Apr 21, 2006
20
0
0
xtnight or anyone else, can you tell a LCD newbie like me why I experience a certain kind of eye strain with LCDs that I didn't before with CRTs (which still may have been harder on the eyes overall). In particular, I feel like the brightness/contrast settings of several LCDs I have tried have been *way* to high for me, to the point that I wanted to turn one or the other setting down to 20% or even lower to feel comfortable, but with the effect that colors could start to fade. I know there is specmanship going on over brightness/contrast and that settings can be intentionally high to give that initial wow factor in store displays, even though optimal monitor brightness recommended by many sources is a fairly low 100-140 cd/m2 for extended viewing.

My question(s): (1) are others doing the same and dropping settings very low for extended computing sessions? I have a 90GX2 right now that I have at what seem like absurdly low 10% brightness and 20% contrast. (2) is there a spec or panel type (maybe one of the older lower brightness LCDs) that might be more suitable for me if I'm sensitive to this burning-sun-of-krypton LCD glare, or is it just a matter of proper calibration?

PS - I find my Thinkpad X41 laptop screen relatively easy to view and read with over long periods, whatever that means.
 

OptimisTech

Senior member
Nov 13, 2001
277
0
71
I was recently shopping for a new LCD and wanted info on actual screen dimensions but it wasn't very easy to find. All anyone wants to talk about is resolution. I created this graphic just as a visual aid for myself. I thought I would post it here in case anyone could use it. This is pretty dell-centric, I know, but the basic measurements should hold pretty accurate for standard monitor sizes.

Screen Size Comparison
 

Skott

Diamond Member
Oct 4, 2005
5,730
1
76
I got my new 20" Viewsonic VX2025wm LCD up and running. It replaced my old 19" Samsung 955DF CRT. The difference is amazing. Running a Intel 3.0GHz with a AGP 7800GS CO Superclock card on it. 1600x1050 is just sweetness! Picture and color is great. If you dont want to spend more money on the NEC then this is a great cheaper alternative. So far only had time to play DAoC on it but I plan to test some other games I have once I get the chance. I paid $344 for mine at ZZF. PageComputer had it for $10 less but I never dealt with them so stuck with ZZF becuase I have not yet had a problem with their service.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: Loque
xtnight or anyone else, can you tell a LCD newbie like me why I experience a certain kind of eye strain with LCDs that I didn't before with CRTs (which still may have been harder on the eyes overall).

LCDs require more brightness to display the same range as CRTs do. CRTs are generally 100 nits, even the $5000 ones. SuperBright mode can take this up to 500 nits. Most LCDs run probably at least 100 nits at 50%/50% settings. I'm not sure because I haven't measured it, but the point still stands you'll be looking at a brighter image if you want saturated midtones.

My question(s): (1) are others doing the same and dropping settings very low for extended computing sessions? I have a 90GX2 right now that I have at what seem like absurdly low 10% brightness and 20% contrast.

I don't think so. I normally run mine (VP930b) at 65%/72% without any eye strain at all. The odd thing is, some days the SRGB mode, which is like 90%/90%, makes my eyes water, but other days it isn't bad at all (though not 100% comfortable, I could use it for an hour without any problems).

(2) is there a spec or panel type (maybe one of the older lower brightness LCDs) that might be more suitable for me if I'm sensitive to this burning-sun-of-krypton LCD glare, or is it just a matter of proper calibration?

Glare? That is probably coming from the OptiClear coating on the 90GX2, which most LCDs don't have, but it does improve the perceived colors. I don't think you'd get much glare at all with LCDs without the coating. The 90GX2 uses a TN which is actually the lowest brightness panel available (although it's anyone guess how bright the TNs have gotten these days). They probably stuck a brighter backlight in the 90GX2 since it can dynamically adjust the brightness depending on the image.

PS - I find my Thinkpad X41 laptop screen relatively easy to view and read with over long periods, whatever that means.

It's likely a much lower-brightness TN. Sorry, I'm not sure which TNs these days have low brightness levels. Maybe you could give some of the NEC IPS screens a try. What do you use it for (any gaming?, just general usage?)
 

CP5670

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2004
5,528
604
126
I finally got my 90GX2 (among other things) up and running a few days ago. It fortunately doesn't have any dead pixels or backlight bleeding. Here are some thoughts on it:

The default setting out of the box is really bright and kills the black level. I turned the brightness down to about 15% and everything looks better and is much easier on the eyes. In general, the black looks excellent in a very brightly lit room due to the Opticlear coating, as good as my CRT in fact, but it takes on an increasingly blue tinge as the ambient light decreases and look pretty terrible in a pitch dark room. This is pretty much what I expected from what I've seen of other LCDs, but it's not a big issue for me as I will only be using that computer in the daytime.

The coating makes this LCD very susceptible to glare and reflections, much more than my CRT. They don't really get in the way though as long as you don't have any direct light sources in front of it, and actually it's good to have the room a little bright in order for the coating to have full effect. I think the reflections are actually what improves the perceived black level so much in the daytime.

The viewing angles are surprisingly good considering it's a TN panel. There is none of that color shifting effect when you move your head slightly up or down, which I've seen with many other TNs. At extreme angles the image becomes messed up, but the colors hold up very well when viewed from any normal angles.

The one thing that's a little disappointing is that the screen door effect is pretty noticeable. While better than most other LCDs I have seen, it's considerably more apparent than what I saw with the display unit in CC last month. I guess the graphics they were showing there didn't exhibit the effect well enough, or I just wasn't looking very closely.

As for the ghosting, it's minimal enough that it can be considered a non-factor for my usage. I can sometimes see it in certain situations, but it's almost never enough to bother me. It's worth noting that I am running it at 75hz though instead of the standard 60hz. The only game where the blurring slightly got in the way was Ballistics (extremely fast paced arcade racer from 2001), but in everything else I tried it didn't bother me at all.

Overall I'm pretty happy with this LCD. It won't replace the CRT on my main system but it's generally excellent for what I got it for, with better black levels and less motion blur than I had expected. The only downer is the screen door effect, which I guess I'll get used to.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Thanks for the assessment CP5670. It's possible the 90GX2 is an arc lamp compared to other LCDs since both of you seem to be running quite low brightness. I was thinking the 70GX2 would have less of a screen-door effect because of the lower dot pitch.
 

poxery47

Junior Member
May 16, 2006
12
0
0
Originally posted by: Skott
I got my new 20" Viewsonic VX2025wm LCD up and running. It replaced my old 19" Samsung 955DF CRT. The difference is amazing. Running a Intel 3.0GHz with a AGP 7800GS CO Superclock card on it. 1600x1050 is just sweetness! Picture and color is great. If you dont want to spend more money on the NEC then this is a great cheaper alternative. So far only had time to play DAoC on it but I plan to test some other games I have once I get the chance. I paid $344 for mine at ZZF. PageComputer had it for $10 less but I never dealt with them so stuck with ZZF becuase I have not yet had a problem with their service.


could you plz test your cpu utilization with task manager (ctr + alt + del) while gaming?

Thanks
 

imported_Loque

Junior Member
Apr 21, 2006
20
0
0
Originally posted by: xtknight
PS - I find my Thinkpad X41 laptop screen relatively easy to view and read with over long periods, whatever that means.

It's likely a much lower-brightness TN. Sorry, I'm not sure which TNs these days have low brightness levels. Maybe you could give some of the NEC IPS screens a try. What do you use it for (any gaming?, just general usage?)

Unfortunately I do both very extended word processing / office work sessions on the LCD as well as some hardcore FPS playing, which makes it very hard to find the right model. I am definitely still interested in trying one of the older generation 250 cd/m2 brightness IPS panels but have no friends with one. I might be able to get a hold of a LCD2070NX or VP201. Hopefully these will be easier on the eyes over the long haul while still being playable in fast games, but who knows.
 

imported_Loque

Junior Member
Apr 21, 2006
20
0
0
NEC 90GX2 REVIEW

Since I have had a 90GX2 on loan for a few days I will write some rambling impressions following on CP5670's report. Overall I have been extremely impressed with this TN panelled LCD, especially considering I was very prepared to dislike the Opticlear coating.

ERGO: seems like very good construction, nice easy swivel capability, no height adjustment but pretty decent fixed height level. OSD is okay once you are used to it. The joystick is inaccurate in movement but it does facilitate quicker setting changes IMO.

TEXT: pretty sharp text but not as dark and crisp as with the LG L1970HR I had... generally does not feel as focussed and clear on very small text but overall still very good as most all LCDs are. I suspect the glossy coating can also be a minor distraction that affects long sessions with text. Otherwise, there was no bleed of colored text against different backgrounds that I could find. Overall I found this monitor average or less than average for black on white text but well above average for text against other backgrounds, though I admit more effective calibration may improve the white levels (a purer white without blinding brightness) though it would be hard to match the L1970HR's black on white quality with its super high contrast. Another area this monitor excelled was with the scaled text of Firefox which other LCDs I have tried have not done so well with (text at different sizes lose their dark, crisp look). It also seemed to handle scrolled text very differently than any other LCD I tried. I use Firefox with a smooth scrolling extension, and previous LCDS I used always scrolled text in jittery, abrupt fashion no matter what scrolling setting. For some reason the 90GX2 made scrolled text very readable, as close to a CRT as I've seen. On the other hand, unlike any other LCD, this same scrolled text showed definite afterimages when the background was certain gray/blue tones. Overall I still preferred the limited and occasional afterimage to the abrupt scrolling of other LCDs.

IMAGE/COLOR: Like CP5670 I found the brightness / contrast settings had to be cranked way down. Image quality generally and color quality specifically *really* surprised me for a TN panel. Opticlear, despite the disparaging remarks of Tom's Hardware and others, really made colors much more vibrant and video/photos more lifelike to my eyes. I am not a photo editor or critical movie watcher so I cannot comment reliably on precise color accuracy or motion video quality except to say that compared to other TNs, I personally found color reproduction much more lively and compelling on the whole despite the usual occasionally shade of color off probably due to dithering or maybe calibration. I can report that my 90GX2 had definite banding on xtknight's gradient test, on most colors. Fairly narrow, faint bands mostly on the dark ends of the color spectrums. I did not notice banding in games or video but I was not looking for it since I hadn't run the gradient test until just before writing this. BTW, I also found banding in this test on the VX922 and L1970HR, the slightest and faintest bit of banding on the Samsung 950b, and no visible banding only on the Samsung 204b and my little Thinkpad X41. TN panels, hmmm...

GHOSTING,BLUR,LAG: I detected no ghosting during gaming (note above comments about scrolling text in firefox) though I must admit I have not seen ghosting in any of the new generation TN type LCDs I have tried. I may be less sensitive. I felt like motion blur was very, very minimal and in my recollection less than other LCDs I tried including the VX922 and L1970HR (I did not have them side to side). Input lag was also not noticeable: no subjective perception of it and when I used the stopwatch test discussed at Hard Forums and elsewhere I measured lag of around 15ms average -- as low as any other LCD I tested (comparable to the VX922 and L1970HR, lower than 204B). Overall I found this to be an exceptional gaming monitor for fast FPS like UT2004, maybe even better than the VX922 and L1970HR due to the more impressive colors and equal or superior performance in terms of ghosting, blur and lag (to my eyes).

INTEPOLLATION/SCALING: very good from what I've seen so far, but haven't finished testing yet.

OTHER NOTES: I will have to look a little more for the screendoor effect that CP5670 found. I did not notice it. The Opticlear is a mixed blessing as many have noted. It is a definite distraction, however minor, though as I said I found that it enhanced color vibrancy (not necessarily accuracy) significantly. For gaming the net effect is positive IMO. For text and office applications I would say try before you buy, because it may be a liability.

I would love to get my friend's L1970HR back since for side-to-side comparision since it and the 90GX2 are the best 19" TN I have tried so far. Might still happen.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Added the ViewSonic VP2030b and Samsung 204B to recommendations for gaming to fill some holes. LesNumeriques has an image quality comparison up, of the new BenQ FP93G X:

BenQ FP93G X
 

raildogg

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
12,884
569
126
Originally posted by: OptimisTech
I was recently shopping for a new LCD and wanted info on actual screen dimensions but it wasn't very easy to find. All anyone wants to talk about is resolution. I created this graphic just as a visual aid for myself. I thought I would post it here in case anyone could use it. This is pretty dell-centric, I know, but the basic measurements should hold pretty accurate for standard monitor sizes.

Screen Size Comparison

From the looks of it, the 19' represents the best screen size to value ratio. The 20' widescreen looks smallish in comparison to the others, especially the 20' regular. I may change my mind on purchasing the Viewsonic 2025 now.
 

poxery47

Junior Member
May 16, 2006
12
0
0
Originally posted by: raildogg
Originally posted by: OptimisTech
I was recently shopping for a new LCD and wanted info on actual screen dimensions but it wasn't very easy to find. All anyone wants to talk about is resolution. I created this graphic just as a visual aid for myself. I thought I would post it here in case anyone could use it. This is pretty dell-centric, I know, but the basic measurements should hold pretty accurate for standard monitor sizes.

Screen Size Comparison

From the looks of it, the 19' represents the best screen size to value ratio. The 20' widescreen looks smallish in comparison to the others, especially the 20' regular. I may change my mind on purchasing the Viewsonic 2025 now.
yeah, same here, besides having problems with CPU utilization in games, the text @ 1680x1050 is very small, and Im coming from 1280x1024 19' vx924... I mean I dont have glasses and stuff, but I do have problems reading 12pt size Times new Roman in word on vx2025.

 

OptimisTech

Senior member
Nov 13, 2001
277
0
71
Originally posted by: poxery47
Originally posted by: raildogg
Originally posted by: OptimisTech
I was recently shopping for a new LCD and wanted info on actual screen dimensions but it wasn't very easy to find. All anyone wants to talk about is resolution. I created this graphic just as a visual aid for myself. I thought I would post it here in case anyone could use it. This is pretty dell-centric, I know, but the basic measurements should hold pretty accurate for standard monitor sizes.

Screen Size Comparison

From the looks of it, the 19' represents the best screen size to value ratio. The 20' widescreen looks smallish in comparison to the others, especially the 20' regular. I may change my mind on purchasing the Viewsonic 2025 now.
yeah, same here, besides having problems with CPU utilization in games, the text @ 1680x1050 is very small, and Im coming from 1280x1024 19' vx924... I mean I dont have glasses and stuff, but I do have problems reading 12pt size Times new Roman in word on vx2025.


I ended up with the same conclusion. Basically the only two with acceptable text size (for me) are the 19" and the 24". At 1920x1200, the 24" ends up at about the same ppi as the 19". All the others are just too small for my eyes. (Not sure about the 30" since that was way out of my range so I didn't bother with much research.)
 

poxery47

Junior Member
May 16, 2006
12
0
0
Originally posted by: OptimisTech
Originally posted by: poxery47
Originally posted by: raildogg
Originally posted by: OptimisTech
I was recently shopping for a new LCD and wanted info on actual screen dimensions but it wasn't very easy to find. All anyone wants to talk about is resolution. I created this graphic just as a visual aid for myself. I thought I would post it here in case anyone could use it. This is pretty dell-centric, I know, but the basic measurements should hold pretty accurate for standard monitor sizes.

Screen Size Comparison

From the looks of it, the 19' represents the best screen size to value ratio. The 20' widescreen looks smallish in comparison to the others, especially the 20' regular. I may change my mind on purchasing the Viewsonic 2025 now.
yeah, same here, besides having problems with CPU utilization in games, the text @ 1680x1050 is very small, and Im coming from 1280x1024 19' vx924... I mean I dont have glasses and stuff, but I do have problems reading 12pt size Times new Roman in word on vx2025.


I ended up with the same conclusion. Basically the only two with acceptable text size (for me) are the 19" and the 24". At 1920x1200, the 24" ends up at about the same ppi as the 19". All the others are just too small for my eyes. (Not sure about the 30" since that was way out of my range so I didn't bother with much research.)


Moreover, I work with Photoshop and word a lot (50% fps gaming and 50% of office work), and proportions are just wrong in photoshop @ 1680x1050! I dont see ANY reasons of going WS at this point - many games have problems with WS, like 100% memory usage, 100% cpu utilization even with games like CS 1.6!, and if you work with text a lot, or use photoshop - forget it, you will end up buying 19'' or 20'' if you have $.

As for me, I'm thinking about going vx922 or some good true 20'' (any propositions about the actual model?) thanks

 

samduhman

Senior member
Jul 18, 2005
397
2
81
VX2025 vs VX922

Well Im stuck with the VX2025. My 14days were up Thursday. Over all Im pretty damn happy with it. Its worked great for games which was my main concern. It also stretches older games well. I loaded a couple older titles which do not support widescreen and they looked fine to me.

My brother brought over his VX922 and we played side by side. My eyes couldn't see a difference between them as far as ghosting. Still if I had to choose again I would get the VX922. Why? Because while sitting on the couch looking across the room at them I realized that the VX2025 kinda looked small compared to the VX922. I broke out a tape measure and found that the VX922 was an inch or so taller (actual viewable area) and the VX2025 was only 2 inches wider! So considering the VX922 is running approximately $100 less than the VX2025 I'd definately go for the VX922 as the gaming lcd. I didn't compare side by side actual visual quality or photos but I do recall saying to him a number of times, "that lcd does look nice" and "I really like the looks of that lcd" meaning every word of it.

While I have your attention. My brother kept complaining about headaches after using the lcd for a while. Any idea whats causing that?
 

Heartbreaker

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2006
4,263
5,260
136
My 2405 gave me headaches and eyestrain. I think it is because it was just too bright even with the monitor brightness at zero. I got rid of it for this and other reasons. I had 2007fp for a while and that had much more moderate/controllable brightness. I did not get headaches/eyestrain. But it had banding and blurred text.

 

samduhman

Senior member
Jul 18, 2005
397
2
81
Originally posted by: guidryp
My 2405 gave me headaches and eyestrain. I think it is because it was just too bright even with the monitor brightness at zero. I got rid of it for this and other reasons. I had 2007fp for a while and that had much more moderate/controllable brightness. I did not get headaches/eyestrain. But it had banding and blurred text.

Ok thanks. I do recall him griping about the brightness. He called me after getting home asking how to find the adjustment using Nvidias display gui.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: raildogg
If anyone can comment on this monitor, I would really appreciate it:

Hanns-G 19" HU-196D

link

That looks like a pretty good deal but I've never seen the monitor in use.
 

intravino

Junior Member
May 22, 2006
3
0
0


Hello Guys,

I love this Forum BTW, I am a new member.

I was looking to purchase a 17 LCD like Eizo but not at $ 500 big ones.

I need something very good for text and colors. No games or DVD's.

From what I read, I would need a S-PVA 8-bit but they don't make in 17.

Should I purchase a 19 or wait for a newer 17 with S-PVA 8-bit?

Or you have something else to recommend?

Thanks,

Intravino
http://www.carplugs.com[/L]
 

jfunk

Golden Member
Oct 16, 2000
1,208
0
76
Can anybody confirm for me whether or not the VP930b is an 8-bit or 6-bit panel? The list at the top of this thread says 6, but the review linked in the same post says it is 8.

Thanks.


j

 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: jfunk
Can anybody confirm for me whether or not the VP930b is an 8-bit or 6-bit panel? The list at the top of this thread says 6, but the review linked in the same post says it is 8.

Thanks.


j

The VP930b is 6-bit and achieves 8-bit by frame rate control methods.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: intravino


Hello Guys,

I love this Forum BTW, I am a new member.

I was looking to purchase a 17 LCD like Eizo but not at $ 500 big ones.

I need something very good for text and colors. No games or DVD's.

From what I read, I would need a S-PVA 8-bit but they don't make in 17.

Should I purchase a 19 or wait for a newer 17 with S-PVA 8-bit?

Or you have something else to recommend?

Thanks,

Intravino
http://www.carplugs.com[/L]

Welcome to the forums. The Samsung 740T looks like it would be ideal for you. Though I haven't seen a review on it specifically, the high-contrast Samsung PVA panels (like the 740T) have great color and text. Hopefully response time isn't a huge factor in your decision because I don't think this would excel in that area.

Do you need a dither-free display or simply one with a good perceived image? The Samsung may possibly dither to achieve 8-bit, and if that's a problem, you'll have to consider another monitor. Unfortunately, full true 8-bit support for 17" and 19" monitors is basically non-existent unless you get one of the Eizos with an NEC SA-SFT panel. I'm not sure if the old IPS panels are true 8-bit or not.
 
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