LCD Buyer's Guide

[nyllefjun]

Originally posted by: xtknight
So your choices change to: Samsung 193P+ and ViewSonic VP930.

It's PVA, but I'd stick with the 193P+ for now since it got a good review from X-Bit and I haven't heard anything about the 940Fn. Then again, who knows what THG will have to say about its overdrive? I still do think the THG results for the 970P were screwed up, or the way they judge RTC error is way too strict. I've heard many happy 970P owners.

The 193P+ is even more expensive at a whopping $600 versus the $550 970P, and it still dithers! Are you sure you don't want a true 8-bit 20" widescreen like the VX2025WM instead? (It sounded like you were looking at 19" only.) The Samsung 215TW is the best for graphical work but the VX2025WM is a good balance too (the 215TW may be a tad slow for your tastes). Both use no dithering and are true 8-bit panels. If there is anywhere you can check the 215TW out, I recommend you do that and if you find the response time acceptable, go for that. If not, you would surely be happy with the response time of the VX2025WM. It won't be as high-contrast, but still above average.

Ah, just wanted some stuff cleared up and your help is greatly appreciated.

I have idd only been looking at 19" since I heard that 20"+ WS monitors had problems with some games, back bleeding (or something like that, I'm not sure what it is) and their native resolution seems insane (I'm used to 1024*768 @ 17" CRT) but after I read what you wrote I went checking up on that and it seems that they don't seem to have to much of a problem with games atleast. I've read up on the VX2025WM monitor you talked about and the NEC 20WGX2 aswell. Both seems to be good. However I'm a bit worried that it will be a bit of a strain on my eyes adjusting to everything being so small at native resolution.

They seem to need quite a bit of settings of colors and whatnot until they look that good tho and the NEC is a bit big and not to pretty to look at. Not that I would choose design>performance but if two monitors are just about equal you can bet I want to go with the one that I'm not annoyied with looking at.

The 193P+ price doesn't bother me much, just to clear that up.

Since this is my first TFT monitor, I hope there would be some change even if I decided to go with a 19" instead of a 20"+ WS eventho it might be a stupid decision.

 

[pencilcase]

Originally posted by: Psykosis
Jej xtknight and I understood something different, pencilcase, this "wave" is static/fixed or pulsates or move somehow?

It's moving. I tried to take pictures but for some reason it's extremely difficult to capture in a photo.

Psykosis, thanks for drawing the HP line of monitors to my attention, I hadn't considered them before. Have you seen one in person by any chance?

Also, VP930 owners, if any of you have ever had the opportunity to hook up your monitor to a computer with onboard graphics, I'd be very interested to hear from you.

 

[imported_Psykosis]

Originally posted by: xtknight
I think mine has slightly disappeared since (it can disappear over time, just ask NEC 20WGX2 owners ).

I have read that a kind of backlight bleeding can happen because the frame of the screen is too tight over the LCD pannel, pressing it a bit too hard over the priferical LCD cells. In this case, in time and when the monitor gets older the external frame relaxes and the LCD gains some space.

Originally posted by: pencilcase
It's moving. I tried to take pictures but for some reason it's extremely difficult to capture in a photo.

If it moves I still think that can be some kind of interference, product of the VGA input, but xtknight has a lot more experience on that

Psykosis, thanks for drawing the HP line of monitors to my attention, I hadn't considered them before. Have you seen one in person by any chance?

Yes, I saw a couple of the 17" versions and feels quite solid. I like the L1955, this is my best choice for a professional polivalent monitor so far, and the reason because I didn't have one right now is that here HP wants US$ 800 for it (!!).

 

[pencilcase]

Originally posted by: Psykosis

Psykosis, thanks for drawing the HP line of monitors to my attention, I hadn't considered them before. Have you seen one in person by any chance?

Yes, I saw a couple of the 17" versions and feels quite solid. I like the L1955, this is my best choice for a professional polivalent monitor so far, and the reason because I didn't have one right now is that here HP wants US$ 800 for it (!!).

What?!:shocked: I can find it here for £233 (432 US$)! Am I missing something? I need to find some user reviews for it...

 

[xtknight]

Dithering/frame rate control also create moving artifacts that look exactly like static/interference. Especially if you mean a blue tinge near the dark end of the grayscale...

 

[nyllefjun]

So, all my fears about the WS monitors were true which is why I'm not getting an answer, xtknight?

I'm sure you are very busy but I'd be very happy if you could shed some light on the matter.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: nyllefjun
Ah, just wanted some stuff cleared up and your help is greatly appreciated.

I have idd only been looking at 19" since I heard that 20"+ WS monitors had problems with some games, back bleeding (or something like that, I'm not sure what it is) and their native resolution seems insane (I'm used to 1024*768 @ 17" CRT) but after I read what you wrote I went checking up on that and it seems that they don't seem to have to much of a problem with games atleast. I've read up on the VX2025WM monitor you talked about and the NEC 20WGX2 aswell. Both seems to be good. However I'm a bit worried that it will be a bit of a strain on my eyes adjusting to everything being so small at native resolution.

Any LCD can have backlight bleeding. For the native resolution, maybe you can try raising the size of the text? There are lots of good 20"+ gaming LCDs. I was just making sure you didn't think the 20" ones were more expensive if that was the reason. If you want a 19" go with the Samsung 193P+.

 

[imported_Psykosis]

Originally posted by: pencilcase
What?!:shocked: I can find it here for £233 (432 US$)! Am I missing something?:confused.

Yep, that's what I thought. Here a good 19" can be US$600 to US$700 due to taxes, but US$800 is really too much for a ~16ms montior. About the reviews, prad.de has a very good one, but its bassed on the model with a S-MVA panel wich I presume is no more on production. The actual one for sure will come with a P-MVA screen. Watch THIS

 

[xtknight]

I went to Circuit City today to check out some LCDs. Of the ones they had on display (ViewSonic VA912b, VA1912wb, VA712b, Samsung 930B, 731B, 931B, Gateway FPD2185W), I thought the Samsung *31B series had a great, accurate image, where the ViewSonics tend to have some weird tinge to their whites, or overbrightness. The Gateway was quite impressive but the viewing angles were less than I thought for an S-PVA. On the flip side, some of the TNs had a noticeably better horizontal viewing angle than others! Unfortunately none were hooked up to any input devices (keyboard, mouse) so I couldn't test motion blur on them. I'll keep an eye out for reviews on the Samsung *31Bs though. There were some Sonys with X-Brite and if you want to know the truth they looked pretty crappy. Glossy coating is no substitute for a good panel.

 

[cyber56]

hi,

Since my crt monitor is slowly dying on me and that lcds are about the same price nowadays, i was thinking about buying something along the line of the viewsonic vx922, benq fp93gx or something similar ( i saw a nec 70gx2 for about the same price as these 2). What would be the best for my needs since i do mainly fps gaming (mohaa, hl1 and such) and browsing?

i have a 9600 non pro on a a7v333-x and 1 gig of ram. will i be able to play these games at the native 1280x1024 resolution of these monitor or will i have to upgrade my video card. ( i saw a 9600xt for 58$ at ncix.com would this do the trick if i have to upgrade.)

I dont plan on upgrading my rig until next year.

Thanks for the help.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: cyber56
hi,

Since my crt monitor is slowly dying on me and that lcds are about the same price nowadays, i was thinking about buying something along the line of the viewsonic vx922, benq fp93gx or something similar ( i saw a nec 70gx2 for about the same price as these 2). What would be the best for my needs since i do mainly fps gaming (mohaa, hl1 and such) and browsing?

i have a 9600 non pro on a a7v333-x and 1 gig of ram. will i be able to play these games at the native 1280x1024 resolution of these monitor or will i have to upgrade my video card. ( i saw a 9600xt for 58$ at ncix.com would this do the trick if i have to upgrade.)

I dont plan on upgrading my rig until next year.

Thanks for the help.

The BenQ FP93GX is the best of those for both gaming and general purpose. I just like a bigger screen for gaming and they also have a slight speed advantage over their 17" brothers. I'm really not sure if a 9600 can push older games at 1280x1024. I know for newer ones you'll want at least a 7600GT (preferably 7800GT+) for 1280x1024. Maybe you can dig up some benchmarks for those games and your card, or make a new thread in the video forum.

 

[cyber56]

thanks for the quick response,

I've heard good things about the benq but i'm still worried about dead pixels since viewsonic has a better policy about it than benq ( i think). i won't necessarily play the newer games since my rig can't handle them but i would like to play the ones i have. do the x700pro would do then? it's at 129.99 at fs right now?

i will surely take your advice and post something in the video forum.

your help is appreciated.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: cyber56
thanks for the quick response,

I've heard good things about the benq but i'm still worried about dead pixels since viewsonic has a better policy about it than benq ( i think). i won't necessarily play the newer games since my rig can't handle them but i would like to play the ones i have. do the x700pro would do then? it's at 129.99 at fs right now?

i will surely take your advice and post something in the video forum.

your help is appreciated.

Hmm. According to Newegg, both are '8 or more' and are warranted through the manufacturer only, so I assume Newegg is stating the manufacturer's policy. I don't know much about how lower-end video cards perform.

But, according to BeHardware, here are the policies (ViewSonic is better), so I don't know what Newegg is stating (maybe that's how much it takes to be eligible as defective for Newegg).

http://www.behardware.com/articles/519-9/lcd-screens-dead-pixels.html

 

[l33tc0w]

I'm in the market for a LCD now, and was wondering if the helpful people here could help me out. I'm wanting to spend $400~ or lower, and it's got to be 1600x1200 (or higher, but I don't think higher resolution monitors are anywhere near that price point).

I'd be playing games on it, and doing lots of reading and general windowsey things. I'd like to try for accurate color reproduction as much as is reasonable, just for purposes of very not professional web design and photo editing.

The internet seems to like the Planar PL2010M and the Samsung 204-T. Are either of those good, or is there a UXGA LCD mostly accepted as "best" for general use?

Thanks.

 

[nyllefjun]

Originally posted by: xtknight
Any LCD can have backlight bleeding. For the native resolution, maybe you can try raising the size of the text? There are lots of good 20"+ gaming LCDs. I was just making sure you didn't think the 20" ones were more expensive if that was the reason. If you want a 19" go with the Samsung 193P+.

Just hadn't been looking for a 20" WS monitor before you mentioned it. The NEC 20" TFT MultiSync 20WGX2 seems really sweet, only drawback would be reflectivity but can be helped so that sounds like a good choise of what I have read about it.

I wonder how games look on it though, I take it a little bit of the top and bottom gets cut of but you get an increased width (atleast with games that can handle the native res). What I read, 20" WS are supposed to have the same hight as the picture of a 17" CRT? That sounds a bit little, perhaps I should look for a bigger WS if thats the case. I also read that you can play older games with other resolutions, it just makes a window in the middle of the screen with black bars around, so thats quite nice since I have a few older games which I wan't to play but I wouldn't wanna get streched looking weird.

How are non-WS 20" monitors compared to 19" non-WS and 20" WS in terms of, well everything?

 

[pencilcase]

Originally posted by: Psykosis

Originally posted by: pencilcase
What?!:shocked: I can find it here for £233 (432 US$)! Am I missing something?:confused.

Yep, that's what I thought. Here a good 19" can be US$600 to US$700 due to taxes, but US$800 is really too much for a ~16ms montior. About the reviews, prad.de has a very good one, but its bassed on the model with a S-MVA panel wich I presume is no more on production. The actual one for sure will come with a P-MVA screen. Watch THIS

Psykosis, thanks for the link!

BTW, I have found further confirmation that my SM770p is not the only Samsung monitor to exhibit white shadows around black text on grey background. This xbitlabs review of the SM710n states:

The auto adjustment of the analog signal works fine; the color-reproduction quality is good as TN+Film matrixes go, without any serious visual artifacts. The main defect of the monitor is the white shadow to the right of vertical black lines on a gray background. This defect was less visible and strong with the SyncMaster 710V. This shadow doesn?t bother you if you?re working with black text on a white background, but it?s more noticeable in menus that have a gray background. The higher the monitor?s brightness, the stronger this effect is.

The reviewer also detected this problem on the 710t but said it was far less noticeable. Well, maybe I'm being too picky, but it does bother me a lot on my 770p, especially when I am browsing on forums such as this one.

And here is a thread in which a SM712N user describes the problem and Samsung's response to it.

 

[cyber56]

looking at BeHardware and if it's true i much rather have the viewsonic. i think viewsonic has a new 0 dead pixel policy but it's only for the vp series so it doesn't apply to me.

Given this would the vx922 be a good choice for me?

thanks.

 

[eXecutioner28]

hey guys, I returned... still haven't been to capital city to look at LCDs, so another question. How does Hyundai 19' ImageQuest L90D+ stand? I saw it on an auction, so I might bid for it... how does he behave in games/movies?

 

[pencilcase]

Hey, xtknight, do you have the white shadow problem on your VP930 too? I've just found this post of yours (dated 12/31/2005 06:34 PM) in which you write:

But do you see a white shadow around some of the black text like I do? Not sure what's going on here. It's particularly noticeable on light gray objects.

Might it be related to the dithering issue?

 

[imported_Psykosis]

Originally posted by: pencilcase
And here is a thread in which a SM712N user describes the problem and Samsung's response to it.

Thats pretty interesting, perhaps just before returning the monitor you can call Samsung, explainning your disconfort to see what they have to say. Overall Samsung has a good customer support. I currently have a credit for two SM760B monitors I've returned because I didn't liked the TN vertical viewing angles. The monitors worked OK, but Samsung agreed that the problem was real and they can't do nothing to solve it.

 

[pencilcase]

Originally posted by: Psykosis

Originally posted by: pencilcase
And here is a thread in which a SM712N user describes the problem and Samsung's response to it.

Thats pretty interesting, perhaps just before returning the monitor you can call Samsung, explainning your disconfort to see what they have to say. Overall Samsung has a good customer support. I currently have a credit for two SM760B monitors I've returned because I didn't liked the TN vertical viewing angles. The monitors worked OK, but Samsung agreed that the problem was real and they can't do nothing to solve it.

I called Samsung and had much better luck with them than last time. I spoke to a very nice guy with an American accent, who didn't seem to have heard of the problem before. He said he believed the monitor was faulty and advised me to return it to my retailer for a refund.

However, a Google search shows that the problem is not confined to Samsung monitors. Here's a list of affected monitors:

SM713BM
SM712N
SM710N
SM914V
SM914N
SM930MP
HP F2105
Compaq L1740
Iiyama VM Pro 512
Cornea MP704
Sony Multiscan 520GS

Here's one of the worst cases.

No one seems to know the real cause of the problem...

 

[A5]

Originally posted by: nyllefjun

Originally posted by: xtknight
Any LCD can have backlight bleeding. For the native resolution, maybe you can try raising the size of the text? There are lots of good 20"+ gaming LCDs. I was just making sure you didn't think the 20" ones were more expensive if that was the reason. If you want a 19" go with the Samsung 193P+.

Just hadn't been looking for a 20" WS monitor before you mentioned it. The NEC 20" TFT MultiSync 20WGX2 seems really sweet, only drawback would be reflectivity but can be helped so that sounds like a good choise of what I have read about it.

I wonder how games look on it though, I take it a little bit of the top and bottom gets cut of but you get an increased width (atleast with games that can handle the native res). What I read, 20" WS are supposed to have the same hight as the picture of a 17" CRT? That sounds a bit little, perhaps I should look for a bigger WS if thats the case. I also read that you can play older games with other resolutions, it just makes a window in the middle of the screen with black bars around, so thats quite nice since I have a few older games which I wan't to play but I wouldn't wanna get streched looking weird.

How are non-WS 20" monitors compared to 19" non-WS and 20" WS in terms of, well everything?

A 20" WS is the same physical height as a 17" LCD.

A non-WS 20" is usually 1600x1200 resolution, and a good deal more expensive. The overall number of pixels is higher, and the screen itself is taller, but not as wide (shocking! ).

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: l33tc0w
I'm in the market for a LCD now, and was wondering if the helpful people here could help me out. I'm wanting to spend $400~ or lower, and it's got to be 1600x1200 (or higher, but I don't think higher resolution monitors are anywhere near that price point).

I'd be playing games on it, and doing lots of reading and general windowsey things. I'd like to try for accurate color reproduction as much as is reasonable, just for purposes of very not professional web design and photo editing.

The internet seems to like the Planar PL2010M and the Samsung 204-T. Are either of those good, or is there a UXGA LCD mostly accepted as "best" for general use?

Thanks.

I can't say I've heard about the Planar (nor can I find any panel info on it) but the ViewSonic VP2030b seems the most promising for your purposes. Unfortunately it's $500+.

The Samsung 204t's response time is on the slow side. Of course, that's subjective, and I'd have no idea if the 204t's speed is enough for you or not. What I can tell you is it's slow in relative to other monitors today. Other than that, the colors on the 204t are very pleasing and certainly will suffice for casual photo editing and design. On the more accurate side you would want to look at the 215TW, but that's a 21" wide screen. If you can see the 204t in store and if the response time isn't bothersome, I would grab that. There are certainly people that are happy with the speed of it.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: nyllefjun

Originally posted by: xtknight
Any LCD can have backlight bleeding. For the native resolution, maybe you can try raising the size of the text? There are lots of good 20"+ gaming LCDs. I was just making sure you didn't think the 20" ones were more expensive if that was the reason. If you want a 19" go with the Samsung 193P+.

Just hadn't been looking for a 20" WS monitor before you mentioned it. The NEC 20" TFT MultiSync 20WGX2 seems really sweet, only drawback would be reflectivity but can be helped so that sounds like a good choise of what I have read about it.

Indeed it is and I'll be picking one up within a month or so!

I wonder how games look on it though,

Stunning, if they support the wide aspect (most do, but some support it really well with an increased FOV). Otherwise you'll have to live with scaling or black bars. Though I'd take black bars with the NEC any day over anything less.

I take it a little bit of the top and bottom gets cut of but you get an increased width (atleast with games that can handle the native res). What I read, 20" WS are supposed to have the same hight as the picture of a 17" CRT?

The height of the image is almost exactly that of a 17" LCD. Let's look at the active area specification for different panels:

17" normal aspect panel: active area (mm.): 337.9 x 270.3
19" normal aspect panel: active area (mm.): 376.3 x 301.1
20.1" widescreen panel: active area (mm.): 433.4 x 270.9

I also read that you can play older games with other resolutions, it just makes a window in the middle of the screen with black bars around, so thats quite nice since I have a few older games which I wan't to play but I wouldn't wanna get streched looking weird.

Yep, that's called centered mode.

How are non-WS 20" monitors compared to 19" non-WS and 20" WS in terms of, well everything?

Most manufacturers are now spending their R&D on widescreens and that's quite obvious. For this reason I feel the widescreen versions are almost always superior. They have essentially forgotten about 17" displays and there is little improvement in the 19" sector either. But that's not entirely true: Samsung released a set of new monitors the other day (17" and 19").

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: cyber56
looking at BeHardware and if it's true i much rather have the viewsonic. i think viewsonic has a new 0 dead pixel policy but it's only for the vp series so it doesn't apply to me.

Given this would the vx922 be a good choice for me?

thanks.

Yes the VX922 is a very good choice. Each has their advantages and I'm sure the VX922 is fast enough for anybody. It's in the same league plus or minus a couple milliseconds.