LCD Buyer's Guide

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DoctorM

Member
Jan 31, 2001
180
0
0
I'm curious why you now rank the LG panel where you do. What is that based on? I mean have you seen/tested the display? Have you seen reviews we haven't?
I just don't have a feel for it myself.

Either way I'm taking this 90gx2 back, but I don't know whether to exchange it for another one hoping the brightspots are a fluke or whether I'd do better with LG.

Edit: OMG I'm going nuts. Costco had the VX922 for $250 YESTERDAY on their webpage. Now they don't even carry it! It's a conspiracy!!!!
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: DoctorM
I'm curious why you now rank the LG panel where you do. What is that based on? I mean have you seen/tested the display? Have you seen reviews we haven't?
I just don't have a feel for it myself.

Either way I'm taking this 90gx2 back, but I don't know whether to exchange it for another one hoping the brightspots are a fluke or whether I'd do better with LG.

The way I generally rank is: the more good user reviews I hear about it, the higher it is. Pro reviews are also taken into account. That doesn't mean I've heard bad things about the ones lower. It's generally just the amount of good reviews, but if I hear consistently bad things about it anywhere it will be off the list. The included panel also is a major factor in my judgment. flatpanels.dk, a reliable Danish LCD review site, liked the LG L1970HR (from talking to the owner's English forum).

When one pro review disagrees with a lot of user reviews, I'm gonna trust the users. If another pro review mentions the same downfalls then I just won't bother recommending it. When you compare the amount who do like the 90GX2 with the amount that don't, the don'ts are certainly the minority. I don't think one LCD doesn't have a displeased user. Nor will I ever know if your panel was defective. You aren't going to want another 90GX2 and I can't say I blame you. It's hard to judge.
 

Josh7289

Senior member
Apr 19, 2005
799
0
76
Originally posted by: xtknight
Originally posted by: Josh7289
Hey, I just dropped in again, even though I'm not in the market for an LCD right now, but I checked out your new site, xtknight. I didn't really go through it, and this is why: the black background is killing me. The black and green is really difficult to get an idea of what is going on in the site, and doesn't appear very welcoming. I'd recommend lighter colors like what you see right here on Anandtech. Besides that, I'm sure the site is/will be chock full of great information, as this thread is, so I'm hoping you can make it look a little nicer.

Please don't take what I said harshly, though.

Yea, it's hard to choose a good color theme. I wish it could be changed per-user but then everybody would need accounts. Well, you'd need an account if you wanted a different theme. Thanks for the feedback, I wish I got more of it.

Actually, you don't need accounts. Go to http://www.avsforum.com/ and scroll to the very bottom left and you can select different colors without an account. It's probably just some sort of cookie or something.
 

martman

Member
Dec 10, 2005
157
2
81
xtknight ....hello just popping back in to let you know that I took your suggestion and am VERY happy with your advise !! I love this monitor. Thanks a million bud. great out-of-the-box colors..no banding..no dead pixels..very little to non-existent backlight bleed...text looks great (with windows "clear type" ticked ) scales very well..and I run at max res 1920x1200. maybe I just got lucky with my 2407..but I'm happy.Thanks again!!

quote:

Originally posted by: xtknight

"The Dell 2407WFP is a tad better for cheaper. You can check out this article: http://www.behardware.com/articles/629-...uces-dell-2407wfp-vs-samsung-244t.html "



sorry dont know how to use the quote function properly..lol
 

DoctorM

Member
Jan 31, 2001
180
0
0
So I returned the 90gx2 and went back to the wall of shame at Best Buy. Those lines of overbright monitors with direct florescent light on them. Vibrant photos at low resolution sent by analog signal split across 3 dozen monitors. How do they manage to sell anything?

This time I went and reset the defaults on the NEC and the L1970HR. Then I tried different dynamic brightness modes. I turned the NEC around under a shelf to see it without direct light and I STILL though the NEC looked better. Certainly better than the one I returned.
The LG seemed to have noticible darker patches in the top corners.
So I decided to give the NEC another go, what the heck.

Now on a black screen there is better uniformity. Though the bottom is brighter (slightly) than the top but it is in a smooth decreasing gradient rather than that blotchy manner with a vertical strip down the middle like the last one. There's also a thin lighter strip along the top, but very thin.

I still wish the bottom wasn't so dark since it washes the taskbar a bit, but after adjusting the brightness and contrast for that (now the top of the display is a bit dark), my first impressions are that this panel is much better than the first one I picked up.

I guess that happens.

There's a lot to love about this display and I suppose there'll be no perfect uniformity on any of them until we see LED backlights.

Am I wrong to settle for this or should that gradient of brightness still not be there?
If not I'll swap for the LG and try again.
 

supastar1568

Senior member
Apr 6, 2005
910
0
76
So whats everyones take on dead pixels? I recieved my very nice 20WMGX2 with one dead pixel last week. Decided it was annoying and ordered another one. The second one had two.

This weekend i am going to a local Costco to check out 2007WFP's. That way if there is something wrong I can return it locally without having to ship anything.

I personally want a perfect monitor and wish that at least one of the NEC's that i ordered was flawless.

 

DoctorM

Member
Jan 31, 2001
180
0
0
Dead pixels use to be a fact of life for LCDs.
From what I'm reading it's not uncommon to find flawless displays now.

I would think it woudl drive me batty, but either this is the second 90gx2 I've picked up that's pristine or I can't see them.
I like to think it's the former, but if it's the later, that's just as well.



Anyone have a take on my brightness question?
 

samduhman

Senior member
Jul 18, 2005
397
2
81
What happened to the Viewsonic VX2025mw? Just two months ago it ranked very well in every category and now its not in any! How did it in such a short time fall off of every list? I spent $350 after much research with this list being a primary reason why I made my 1st lcd purchase and now its not even in the top eight for gaming speed. Im :Q and and a little :|
 

littlefrank

Junior Member
Aug 5, 2006
10
0
0
Originally posted by: DoctorM
Dead pixels use to be a fact of life for LCDs.
From what I'm reading it's not uncommon to find flawless displays now.

I would think it woudl drive me batty, but either this is the second 90gx2 I've picked up that's pristine or I can't see them.
I like to think it's the former, but if it's the later, that's just as well.

Anyone have a take on my brightness question?

I just took home 6 new widescreen LCDS - all bought locally because I was seriously worried about screen defects. I didn't get 1 bad pixel in the whole bunch. Maybe I was lucky ... I'm guessing the bad pixel receivers are just UNlucky!

As for your brightness question ... I'm VERY happy with my Samsung 215tw, which I believe xtknight suggested you try earlier. Yes, it's not as fast as some others, but brightness (& overall) uniformity, lack of backlight bleed, colour fidelity, and every other quality measure I had are all excellent as far as I'm concerned - and I'm pretty picky.

They have them at Costco, CompUSA, Fry's and some Best Buys so you should be able to check them out. Apart from BB, you should be able to see one hooked directly to a suitable source to see what you think. Got mine at BB with a coupon discount
 

DoctorM

Member
Jan 31, 2001
180
0
0
Sooooo. Now I'm sitting here with my 3rd monitor....
My second NEC 90GX2 and a LG L1970HR.
Side by side, clone mode. Makes me feel like a giddy little geek.
BUT 2 monitors enter, one monitor leaves.

First impressions:

NEC feels more solid and it's easier to rotate and tilt. The LG is is very thin. The base is VERY tight. You won't be knocking it away from where you set it, that's for sure. It took me like 5 minutes to unlock it from the collapsed position to get it set up. Like I said, tight. (Couldn't collapse the base again after opening it).

LG has no DVI cable and uses a power brick (if you hate those beware).

NEC has USB ports (good I was running out). Ports are on the back of the LG base, easy: plug in and you're set. NEC has this funky thing where you thread the cables up the base, connect under the pannel (turn it over to find what you're plugging in), leave some slack, attach the monitor's bottom panel, put a cover over the arm and whew.

LG looks better out of the box at default settings. Nice vibrant picture, nice contrast (as expected).
NEC is nice too, but maybe the edge to LG for naturalness. Not sure there. The LG blacks seem a bit light.
OH yeah this is the second NEC with no dead pixels, LG 1 dead that won't repair in the top left 1".

Lets tweak:
Oh god oh god oh god someone spank LG. Those under monitor buttons are so hard on the fingers to use. The menu system is a bit awkward too.

NEC's little eraser head control is sweetness. A little inaccurate on occasion but very pleasant to use. The controls are also in the front instead of under the monitor so hopeless tweakers have good access.

NEC has 5 useful modes for brightness/contrast and you can tweak any of them as you like (that is your brightness/contrast will effect all mode presets). Ignore the names, movie is bad for movies and good for text, standard is good for movies, different games benefit from different modes.
LG f-engine: 3 modes + one user defined. If you tweak the brightness/contrast manually you are no longer using the f-engine's modes. If you switch the f-engine setting your contrast/brightness settings are disabled.

THX optimode. Not the best method for adjusting monitors really but it'll do for my retardedness.

NEC Contrast 40% Brightness 50% (you can go much higher if you like in your face bright, it's all up to your taste (which helps if you have a bit of clear on the clearcoat). I have it at 40% Bright 30% Contrast at the moment). Movie mode and Standard both look pretty good on these settings.

LG weighs in with a Contrast of 60% and Brightness of 50%. I've brightened it a little for typing this.

Movies: Star Wars Ep3... NEC's movie mode looks ok, Text mode seems a bit better quality. If you like dark blacks, you can go with photo mode but I think it's a bit innacurate. LG, looks very nice, possibly better than any of the NEC modes, it's hard to say. The LG seems to have less of that sparkly artifact the faster panels are prone to. PowerDVD messes up the brightness if you try to overlay both monitors at the same time. I'm giving the edge to the LG here. I'm not swearing to any of this, you'll have to decide for yourself really.

Web, text, desktop use: NEC wins it. Nice on the eyes, great contrast for reading. LG seems a little washed out. None of the f-modes help. My manual attempts look worse.

Dr. M's synthetic black test. I don't know if this shows off backlight bleeding or if it's just inconsistency of lighting. Using a pure black screen I twiddle the modes, contrast and brightness. (How's that for scientific?)
My previous NEC blew at this. The new one is much more uniform. It is moves towards brighter at the bottom in a smooth gradient (most noticeable in game mode (which is fairly bright)) with a thin brighter patch at the very top. This is minimized a great deal in some of the preset modes and with the contrast/brightness I've set. Overall not bad, not perfect, but pretty good.

LG, at it's current settings shows a very similar patch of light along the top as with the NEC, but also one along the left edge. Not much else to say about it.

Color: Don't ask. I'm slightly color blind so I won't judge accuracy, but the NEC seems more vibrant. I like the clearcoat on it, if that makes me shallow TGH, I'm ok with that. The reds are a little more "CRT monitor" looking (kind of bright like neon is bright but not that intense). LG shows reds that are deep but slightly dull. Subjectively I like the NEC colors better, I suspect the LG is more accurate, but I don't care, I like the vibrancy of the 90gx2.

Ghosting: Pixperan... looks like a single ghost behind the car test for the NEC, ghostless for the LG. LG wins no question, but the NEC did well.

I didn't fire up any actual games (did play the internal Pixperan one), but I've pretty much covered the bases here.

The viewing angles seem similar, scrolling text seems similar.

The LG is going back (if I can get it in the box again). The NEC, even with it's DVI port tied behind it's back (it's on my analog output). It is just more pleasing to me.
I wish it were as fast as the LG, but that's not enough reason to keep it, NEC edges it out nearly everywhere else.

If gaming and movies is 95% of what you do and ghosting annoys you, the LG is a good decision.
If you 50% game like I do and then split your time across productivity and other uses the NEC might be a better choice.
 

JETninja

Senior member
Oct 5, 2001
355
0
0
Or if you only have the LG and nothing else in the house to compare it with......Ha Ha...

Anyways, a very nice comparo write up! Were they both hooked up per D-Sub or DVI?

I picked up Red Orchestra ($19.99 @ Target) and played a few hours last night. Based on the '41-'45 Eastern Front campaign, its very dark, overcast type setting, and some bright white winter scenes also. (Love that Russian Snow!)

I dont have a single complaint from the Monitor. Artillery explosions, Tank Blasts, Flaming Hulks, etc all looked GREAT! I'm driving it with a PNY GF6600GT through DVI. (and the sound from my new Koss 60mm driver Headphones!!! Wow!) When I find some time "ll do further tweaking, but reading my email, paying bills, or playing games I'm still ecstatic over the LG.
 

DoctorM

Member
Jan 31, 2001
180
0
0
I used clone mode with the LG in DVI and the NEC on a D-SUB cable. I wanted to give the LG an edge (I wanted to like it, 2 frickin ms come on!) and because I already knew how the NEC looked DVI from messing with it that way the last 2 days (really there wasn't too much difference).

My card is a Radeon X850 XT Platinum Edition. I prefer Nvidia, but this card was a cheap and powerful AGP champ 4 months ago when I bought it.
 

supastar1568

Senior member
Apr 6, 2005
910
0
76
good im not the only one who has to have a perfect monitor.

if i dont find a 2007wfp at Costco this weekend, i am ordering THREE 20WMGX2's from Sams Club and keeping the best one.

No hassle returns
 

Faulkner05

Member
May 7, 2005
45
0
0
Originally posted by: samduhman
What happened to the Viewsonic VX2025mw? Just two months ago it ranked very well in every category and now its not in any! How did it in such a short time fall off of every list? I spent $350 after much research with this list being a primary reason why I made my 1st lcd purchase and now its not even in the top eight for gaming speed. Im :Q and and a little :|

I'm wondering the same thing.
 

supastar1568

Senior member
Apr 6, 2005
910
0
76
Originally posted by: samduhman
What happened to the Viewsonic VX2025mw? Just two months ago it ranked very well in every category and now its not in any! How did it in such a short time fall off of every list? I spent $350 after much research with this list being a primary reason why I made my 1st lcd purchase and now its not even in the top eight for gaming speed. Im :Q and and a little :|


So your monitor now runs slower and different because it is no longer ranked on an internet forum???
 

DoctorM

Member
Jan 31, 2001
180
0
0
XTKnight said:

I had to pull it because too many people were having DVI issues with it. (google vx2025wm dvi) However not everybody has the problem, supposedly. Two people on this very forum had problems with it. There's a program called 'dvi recover' that might fix it.
 

CP5670

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2004
5,534
613
126
On the defective LCD issue, I have had two 90GX2s with no dead pixels and no backlight uniformity problems at all that I could see. The second one was a replacement for the first one which died for some strange reason (I posted earlier that there was a dead pixel on the second one, but it turned out to be just a black speck of dust).
 

DoctorM

Member
Jan 31, 2001
180
0
0
A plain black all page in a _dark_ room can show stuff that you might otherwise not see.

If you can do that and not see any of the bleeding at the top edge or a gradient under a bright setting (such as Gaming Mode), please let me know and I'll try a third one.
 

CP5670

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2004
5,534
613
126
Yeah, I know what you're talking about, as I use my machines in the night with the lights off very often. The "black" looks more like dark blue in the absence of any ambient lighting, but it's exactly the same shade of blue all around as far as I can see.

This does depend on where you're looking at it from though. If I look at the screen from a very slight vertical angle, I can see the top becoming darker and the bottom turning brighter (in a dark room). The black is completely uniform only when viewed directly from the front.
 

DoctorM

Member
Jan 31, 2001
180
0
0
Mmm. I see what you mean.

Unfortunately I just started trying some games in ernest tonight. That included F.E.A.R. and Doom3. For dark games like that I'm seeing that silvery-blue/reflective(?) quality mostly off to the sides.

It's not pleasant but I would guess it's more a function of LCDs than this specific display.

Maybe I will get a CRT after all.

Btw, BEWARE Best Buy. One store was great to me on the NEC refund. On the LG when I tried to return it I complained of backlight bleeding and they tried to charge me 15% restocking fee!!!! I took it to a different branch. Yikes.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: Josh7289
Actually, you don't need accounts. Go to http://www.avsforum.com/ and scroll to the very bottom left and you can select different colors without an account. It's probably just some sort of cookie or something.
Yeah, accounts are just the easiest way to do it.

Originally posted by: martman
xtknight ....hello just popping back in to let you know that I took your suggestion and am VERY happy with your advise !! I love this monitor. Thanks a million bud. great out-of-the-box colors..no banding..no dead pixels..very little to non-existent backlight bleed...text looks great (with windows "clear type" ticked ) scales very well..and I run at max res 1920x1200. maybe I just got lucky with my 2407..but I'm happy.Thanks again!!

Originally posted by: xtknight
The Dell 2407WFP is a tad better for cheaper. You can check out this article: http://www.behardware.com/articles/629-...uces-dell-2407wfp-vs-samsung-244t.html
sorry dont know how to use the quote function properly..lol
Glad to hear! There's a quote. Press the quote link on the bottom of somebody's post to quote them. Insert your text below the [ /q].

Originally posted by: DoctorM
Am I wrong to settle for this or should that gradient of brightness still not be there?
If not I'll swap for the LG and try again.
I believe that is common on TNs. Thanks for the huge review of both monitors! I'm still unsure of whether I should be recommending the LG or NEC, but the LG is faster, and the category is maximum speed...sooo... I'll probably put the NEC in the second category as well. I'm surprised the LG didn't have better colors.

Originally posted by: supastar1568
So whats everyones take on dead pixels? I recieved my very nice 20WMGX2 with one dead pixel last week. Decided it was annoying and ordered another one. The second one had two.

This weekend i am going to a local Costco to check out 2007WFP's. That way if there is something wrong I can return it locally without having to ship anything.

I personally want a perfect monitor and wish that at least one of the NEC's that i ordered was flawless.
On a screen with as small a dot pitch as the NEC I would probably live with one.

Originally posted by: FreedomGUNDAM
Anyone know what panel does the Samsung 931B use?
TN 6-bit+FRC. The one I saw at Circuit City looked quite decent but I didn't get a change to test response time.

Originally posted by: samduhman
What happened to the Viewsonic VX2025mw? Just two months ago it ranked very well in every category and now its not in any! How did it in such a short time fall off of every list? I spent $350 after much research with this list being a primary reason why I made my 1st lcd purchase and now its not even in the top eight for gaming speed. Im :Q and and a little :|
Don't worry. It's still the best value out there. Too bad people were having DVI problems with it. No DVI=no display (or VGA, which I'm not sure worked either). Be glad you didn't have problems with it because you own the LCD of the best value, by far. If it weren't for that it would still be in the same ranks. If I don't hear too much more of the problem I'll add it back in another month or so, assuming they fixed it.
 

DoctorM

Member
Jan 31, 2001
180
0
0
Definitely take my opinion of colors with a grain of salt. The slight color blindness makes me a poor judge of that.

It's probably why I'm more sensitive to light/dark issues and artifacts.
 

samduhman

Senior member
Jul 18, 2005
397
2
81
Originally posted by: supastar1568
Originally posted by: samduhman
What happened to the Viewsonic VX2025mw? Just two months ago it ranked very well in every category and now its not in any! How did it in such a short time fall off of every list? I spent $350 after much research with this list being a primary reason why I made my 1st lcd purchase and now its not even in the top eight for gaming speed. Im :Q and and a little :|


So your monitor now runs slower and different because it is no longer ranked on an internet forum???

Yes it actually does run slower now

 
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