LCD Buyer's Guide

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supastar1568

Senior member
Apr 6, 2005
910
0
76
Originally posted by: samduhman
Originally posted by: supastar1568
Originally posted by: samduhman
What happened to the Viewsonic VX2025mw? Just two months ago it ranked very well in every category and now its not in any! How did it in such a short time fall off of every list? I spent $350 after much research with this list being a primary reason why I made my 1st lcd purchase and now its not even in the top eight for gaming speed. Im :Q and and a little :|


So your monitor now runs slower and different because it is no longer ranked on an internet forum???

Yes it actually does run slower now


nice, cause im actually going to buy one in 50 minutes

 

samduhman

Senior member
Jul 18, 2005
397
2
81
Originally posted by: DoctorM
XTKnight said:

I had to pull it because too many people were having DVI issues with it. (google vx2025wm dvi) However not everybody has the problem, supposedly. Two people on this very forum had problems with it. There's a program called 'dvi recover' that might fix it.

Thanks Doctor M. I couldn't find that message. I scanned back a few pages and tried a search without luck.

So it has a dvi issue eh. Is it a confirmed problem with many or just a couple people complaining because they got a dud.

This whole issue concerns me. I had to send mine in for repairs. The front OSD buttons went bad. I had an unsatisfactory experience with Viewsonics procedures to repair/replace a lcd but thats another story. Let me just skip to the end. They sent back a lcd. I dont know if its the same one I sent them or a replacement. I cant find my damn paperwork with the serial number. What concerns me is they sent back the analog video cable but not the dvi video cable. I called them last night about this issue and was told it could take up to 90 days to get a dvi cable sent to me. WTF!

On another note. The vx2025 I received back looks fantastic. I honestly think its my original but the picture looks much better. I dont know if they fixed/improved the picture also or the analog is making it look better than the dvi. Once I get my hands on a dvi cable I can confirm.
 

DoctorM

Member
Jan 31, 2001
180
0
0
I wouldn't count on it being the same panel that you sent viewsonic. A few years back I had a CRT with problems and they told me up front that it was an exchange not a repair.

The replacement unit had a dirty case I had to use wipe down with cleaner, I was very angry and they said that's how it is. Now that same monitor is dying (yes years later), but a similar model bought a few months early acts like it's brand new.

One of the reasons I'm off of Viewsonic myself.
 

DoctorM

Member
Jan 31, 2001
180
0
0
Can anyone confirm deny that it is a factor of LCD to have blacks that seem more silvery than black in dark games? I found it crazy distracting in some testing and I need to know if I'm giving up on LCDs or just returning ANOTHER display.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: DoctorM
Can anyone confirm deny that it is a factor of LCD to have blacks that seem more silvery than black in dark games? I found it crazy distracting in some testing and I need to know if I'm giving up on LCDs or just returning ANOTHER display.

Yes, most LCDs have trouble with dark games, especially with high brightness and no dynamic contrast.
 

DoctorM

Member
Jan 31, 2001
180
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0
especially with high brightness and no dynamic contrast.

Meaning what? I have the brightness turned down by about half.

Can you elaborate what exactly dynamic contrast is? Are you saying the monitor changes contrast to suit what's being shown? Does the 90gx2 not have that?

(shakes head) They are going to hate seeing me coming at Best Buys.

And I still still still see the bottom as bright than the top on this thing.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: DoctorM
especially with high brightness and no dynamic contrast.

Meaning what? I have the brightness turned down by about half.

A 300 nit LCD cut in half would be 150 nits, which is still 50% more bright than the CRT at its brightest settings (100 nits).

Can you elaborate what exactly dynamic contrast is? Are you saying the monitor changes contrast to suit what's being shown? Does the 90gx2 not have that?

Yes, adaptive contrast. It depends what mode it's in. I don't know which ones enable it. It's probably in the manual.

(shakes head) They are going to hate seeing me coming at Best Buys.

And I still still still see the bottom as bright than the top on this thing.

You can give the Samsung 215TW a try. It's probably more uniform, but it always depends on the unit. One could be horrible, the next could be perfect. It is always better in other categories though (like contrast), if not in uniformity.
 

DoctorM

Member
Jan 31, 2001
180
0
0
Where would the VX2025wm rank and in what category if it was still on the list?
What panel does it use? Is it another crappy TN or did they use something else?
Details please.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: DoctorM
Where would the VX2025wm rank and in what category if it was still on the list?
What panel does it use? Is it another crappy TN or did they use something else?
Details please.

It's a full 8-bit color P-MVA (AU Optronics 4-domain vertical alignment). The only problem with the VX2025wm is that backlight bleeding seems more common on it than other LCDs (like all the ViewSonics).

General usage - fourth
Gaming (better color, decent speed) - tied for second (only one better is the expensive NEC)
Watching movies - third

The 215TW (Samsung S-PVA, full 8-bit, highest contrast, 8-domain vertical alignment) is very close behind the VX2025wm in speed and its colors are even better.
 

DoctorM

Member
Jan 31, 2001
180
0
0
backlight bleeding seems more common on it than other LCDs (like all the ViewSonics)

Are you saying that backlight bleeding is more common on all Viewsonics than other displays or are you saying that backlight bleeding is more common on the Vx2025wm than on all other displays (including other Viewsonics).
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: DoctorM
backlight bleeding seems more common on it than other LCDs (like all the ViewSonics)

Are you saying that backlight bleeding is more common on all Viewsonics than other displays or are you saying that backlight bleeding is more common on the Vx2025wm than on all other displays (including other Viewsonics).

Backlight bleeding is more common on all ViewSonics than other brands.
 

CP5670

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2004
5,535
613
126
Originally posted by: DoctorM
Viewsonic G90FB-4 19" CRT $175 at TechOnWeb.com

Just being devil's advocate.

eh, it's a shadow mask. I would try my luck with the SGI branded 2070SB on www.accurateit.com instead. If it turns out to have no problems, you will have one heck of a display.

Backlight bleeding is more common on all ViewSonics than other brands.

The Dell LCDs seem to suffer from it too, just from the comments I see around here.
 

Hexerott

Junior Member
Aug 11, 2006
4
0
0
Wow! Simply THE BEST resource on LCD monitors. Thank you sooo much for your hard work and sharing.

I have a question. I have been looking at the Samsung 940BF but ran into a Samsung 931BF.

The 931BF boasts a 2ms (g-g) response time while the 940 boasts a 4ms response time that I see.

The only other difference I see is the Panel type:
931BF a-si TFT/TN
940BF a-si TFT/LCD
Is one better than the other in this realm?



Here are the specs on the 931BF:

Panel Type a-si TFT/TN
Size 19?
Pixel Pitch (mm) 0.294
Brightness (Typical) 300 cd/m2
Contrast Ratio (Typical, Dynamic Contrast) 700:1, 2000:1
Viewing Angle (H/V, Typical) 160°/160° (CR>5)
Response Time (Typical) 2 ms (G-G)
Aspect Ratio 5:4
Interface Analog/Digital

I will primarily be gaming so no ghosting or gaming issues is mandatory.

Which monitor would you folks go with for gaming? I haven't seen anything on the 931BF in this guide.

Thanks again!!!!!

 

DoctorM

Member
Jan 31, 2001
180
0
0
I wanted to thank you all for the info and help. I know I've been a pain with all the questions I've asked.

My second monitor had died (I started with two 17" viewsonic crts) and I was going to upgrade to an LCD to replace the dead one.
After 2 of those NECs and the LG panel I've come to the conclusion: LCDs are not ready for me.
The refresh rates need to be above 60-75hz before I'm comfortable. I get eye strain otherwise.
Also the lighting is too uneven. On every display I found the bottom brighter than the top and/or light bleeding at the extreme edges (mostly the top). So either I had to balance the contrast/brightness for the top, washing out the taskbar, or the bottom, giving a dark top to the screen. I guess LED backlights are really needed.

I also hate the silvery look to the black in dark games I was getting and the really small viewing angles before colors looked to be crap. I know a more expensive panel might fix those at the expense of speed, but why should I compromise? That's why we're stuck with these things.

I know most people don't see what I see but it screams at me.
I'm getting a 19" CRT (and possibly a 22" to replace the other viewsonic) to tide me over until LCDs really are ready to replace them. Thanks again for all of the help guys.
 

rlorita

Junior Member
Jul 27, 2006
2
0
0
I picked up a Samsung 970p today and have a few comments.

The viewing angle is fantastic. Best I have ever seen in LCD, even looking up from below. There is a slight gamma shift as you move away from the normal. But text is still fully readable and colours remain the same, though a little paler, even at nearly 90 degrees (ie, completely side on).

Colours and sharpness is fantastic, as is to be expected with an LCD. The uniformity of the backlight is much better than I have seen in other LCDs. The wide viewing angle probably has a lot to do with this.

The 2x2 dithering is particularly noticeable when I sit within about 10 inches from the screen, but not distracting and when I sit more than 10 inches from the screen it's not noticeable. I don't mind it either way, although when editing raster graphics (ie editing graphics for the web with photoshop) it may be an issue, but can be worked around.

The response time is great. I'm not a heavy gamer. I rarely get into games but I have been playing a FPS style game recently. Many do not like the motion blur effect when panning but I think it looks awesome. Considering that the colours are so much better it is a pretty good deal.

The overdrive effect (response time compensation) is noticeable. As you pan, there is a white edge trailing the black tree trunks, and a black edge trailing white objects like laser beams etc. But it still looks pretty cool. As I said, some people don't like the motion blur but to me, it is pretty cool and not too heavy to be a distraction.

For video it is more than worthy, overkill in fact. The sharpness of LCD makes all the grain and MPEG noise in a video much more noticeable.

It has no dead pixels.

Installation was no problem although I think the supplied software is a bit crappy. The magic rotation application kept popping up errors after I disabled the tray icon. I've uninstalled it. I don't think I really need to rotate my desktop. The magic tune application is a bit clunky and I think it might have been crashing my computer - in combination with my graphics drivers. Anyway, it worked well enough to use it. I calibrated my monitor with it, and then uninstalled it. Set it the way you want then get rid of magictune.

I needed to adjust the gamma up a bit (ie, make mid tones darker) to match a 2.2 gamma. The black level is not configurable (from 100 to 50, the brightness adjustment alters the backlight intensity, and from 50 to 0 the backlight stays the same and it is like turning the contrast down). But I found the black level to be perfect. I found I needed to turn the contrast down a little tiny bit from the default to gain back some detail in the whites. The colour calibration tool was easy to use and impressive, as I haven't seen that in an LCD before.

Mine is black. It looks nice, and suits my black keyboard and mouse. I don't need the glossy good looks or flashy designs, I am mainly interested in graphics quality, but the simplicity of design is a plus.

Some have said that the hinge is a bit loose and the monitor will slowly slide down over time if you have it up high. Mine seems to hold the weight of the screen fine. Makes sense that not all hinges would be the same though.

Oops, I forgot to mention brightness. It's virtually impossible to tell how bright a monitor is with the human eye other than how it compares with surrounding light. This room doesn't get much sunlight so it looks extremely bright. I had to turn the backlight down. You're not likely to be disappointed, but then again I haven't tried it in direct sunlight.

Positives: colour, sharpness, contrast, viewing angle (for an LCD), response time (for an LCD with a viewing angle and contrast ratio like this)
Negatives: 6-bit+dithering (if you edit raster graphics), supplied software (but you can use it once then remove it)
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: Hexerott
Wow! Simply THE BEST resource on LCD monitors. Thank you sooo much for your hard work and sharing.

I have a question. I have been looking at the Samsung 940BF but ran into a Samsung 931BF.

The 931BF boasts a 2ms (g-g) response time while the 940 boasts a 4ms response time that I see.

The only other difference I see is the Panel type:
931BF a-si TFT/TN
940BF a-si TFT/LCD
Is one better than the other in this realm?



Here are the specs on the 931BF:

Panel Type a-si TFT/TN
Size 19?
Pixel Pitch (mm) 0.294
Brightness (Typical) 300 cd/m2
Contrast Ratio (Typical, Dynamic Contrast) 700:1, 2000:1
Viewing Angle (H/V, Typical) 160°/160° (CR>5)
Response Time (Typical) 2 ms (G-G)
Aspect Ratio 5:4
Interface Analog/Digital

I will primarily be gaming so no ghosting or gaming issues is mandatory.

Which monitor would you folks go with for gaming? I haven't seen anything on the 931BF in this guide.

Thanks again!!!!!

Sorry, I don't know much about the 931BF but it can't get much better than the 940BF for gaming. They both use a-si TFT TN LCD panels, just one is rated more specifically. The 931BF does have dynamic contrast, but I haven't seen a pro review of it to rule out other problems so common in the 930BF series, so I'd stick with the 940BF.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
rlorita: Thanks for the review. I'm sure people will be glad if they want to find info on the 970P.
 

nyllefjun

Junior Member
Jul 21, 2006
11
0
0
Hello again.

I picked up the NEC 20WGX2 earlier today that had just arrived.

I have a few questions about it, since I am (as I said) new to LCD's and I hardly touched any monitor setup settings on my old CRT monitor.

First of all the monitor looks really nice and blends in with my other computer equipment which is nice. Its sturdy and feels like a piece of good quality.

I was glad to see that my old GF4 ti4200 was able to run WS resolutions and I've just tried it out a little.

Now to some thoughts.

How can you test backlight bleeding and test for faulty pixels?
I read some about that but I never quite got how I'm supposed to do that.

I tried playing a few DVD's (Lockstock, Ice Age, Last Samurai) and some colors just seemed to wash into eachother makeing it look not much better then any random XviD video I tried playing. I also tried playing Unreal Tournament (yes, the original) and apart from feeling weird playing on a WS monitor (not neccessarily bad) it looked terrible around all dark areas where colors were big square blocks on the walls and on the ground pretty much. When using the photo mode that blended pretty alright but then it became a completely different and extremely dark game.

Sorry or being such a beginner at this but I'm now using the normal or the D-Sub connection to my gfx card. I think I read somewhere that the performance is better when using the DVI-D connection cable instead, is that true and if so, how much of a difference is there?

My gfx card has another connection to the side of the D-Sub altho the amount of holes compared to the pins of the DVI-D cablehead doesn't match up so I suppose thats something else?

One last thing for now, am I supposed to install the software that came with the monitor for everything to work at its best or are there some shareware programs that I'm supposted to use?

EDIT: one more question, how do you disable so that the monitor doesn't automatically change brightness on its own all of the time?
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: nyllefjun
How can you test backlight bleeding and test for faulty pixels?

For the first one, disable advanced DVM and display a full black screen. For the faulty pixels you can run things like Dead Pixel Buddy.

Sorry or being such a beginner at this but I'm now using the normal or the D-Sub connection to my gfx card. I think I read somewhere that the performance is better when using the DVI-D connection cable instead, is that true and if so, how much of a difference is there?

It really depends on a billion factors. DVI-D will always display a perfect picture. I would definitely try to use DVI if possible.

My gfx card has another connection to the side of the D-Sub altho the amount of holes compared to the pins of the DVI-D cablehead doesn't match up so I suppose thats something else?

It could be DVI-I (transmits DVI-D and DVI-A [vga]). But the DVI-D connector should fit in there just fine. I'm not sure what you mean by colors washing into each other, but it may very well be the card's weak VGA signal. The ti4200 is quite aged so I'd get a new DVI card if I were you. If not you may never see the potential of that great LCD you have.

One last thing for now, am I supposed to install the software that came with the monitor for everything to work at its best or are there some shareware programs that I'm supposted to use?

No software will magically make the monitor "better". Drivers are not needed to see its full potential like a 3D accelerator card. However the software can help you adjust the monitor so it does look better.

EDIT: one more question, how do you disable so that the monitor doesn't automatically change brightness on its own all of the time?

Disable "Advanced DVM" in the monitor setup. Remember to do this when you test for backlight bleeding with a full black screen. The monitor will just turn its backlight off on a full black screen if you have Advanced DVM on.
 

ThanatosGOD

Member
Feb 1, 2006
25
0
0
4:3 20" Replacement for NEC 20WGX2

I've owned the NEC 20WGX2 for few months now and its great, however I've gone through tons of units in order to try (pedantically!) to eliminate any backlight bleeding. Essentially though it's the 16:10 aspect ratio that is frustrating me. Basically I am a gamer and just about only HL2 supports widescreen, everything else requires .ini hacks etc which succeed to varying degrees. Having played many games I've realised that even when hacks work they tend to introduce a degree of instability to the games performance, and on top of that widesceen generally does not improve 'immersion' or anything.

After much consideration I realised that I wanted a 4:3, 1600x1200 screen. The problem is though that the NEC 20WGX2 is absolutely brilliant as a quality LCD and trying to find something that will even match it I assume wil be difficult. I've drawn up a shortlist of contenders below.

DELL
Dell UltraSharp 2007FP 20.1" 16 ms S-IPS (LG.Philips LM201U04)/8 ms (g2g) S-PVA (Samsung LTM201U1) panel.

NEC
MultiSync® LCD2070NX 16 ms S-IPS (LG.Philips LM201U04) panel

Philips
200P7ES/G 20" 14/8ms GTG S-IPS LG Philips (Unsure about exact specs)
200P6IS/G 20" 16 ms S-IPS (LG.Philips LM201U04) panel

Samsung
204T 20.1" 16 ms S-PVA (Samsung LTM201U1) panel

Viewsonic
VP2030b 20" 8 ms (g2g) P-MVA (AUO M201UN02 V5) panel


I realise that the NEC 20WGX2 panel is probably superior to most of these, and there is mix of different panels there. Nevertheless I would really appreciate your advice (particularly xtknight!) on which is the best. I have already budgeted for the models above and simply want the best screen of them; preferably similar in properties to the NEC 20WGX2.

Thanks!
 

jgaray2000

Junior Member
Aug 12, 2006
1
0
0
Hi!
I'm writing you from Lima, Perú (so please excuse my English). I had the same problem with my VP730b. I don't know what to do. I'd like to know how to hard-reset the LCD, or what is the telephone number of ViewSonic or Portrait Displays (PerfectSuite)...

Please, help me...

Thanks in advance.

José Garay
jgaray@unionvida.com.pe
jgaray2000@hotmail.com
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: jgaray2000
Hi!
I'm writing you from Lima, Perú (so please excuse my English). I had the same problem with my VP730b. I don't know what to do. I'd like to know how to hard-reset the LCD, or what is the telephone number of ViewSonic or Portrait Displays (PerfectSuite)...

Please, help me...

Thanks in advance.

José Garay
jgaray@unionvida.com.pe
jgaray2000@hotmail.com

I assume you mean the problem where it shows "theft deterrent"?

Right after plugging the power cable in, I pressed first (power) and third (contrast) button, holding them down. It will briefly show a message ("All Reset") if it did work. I hope it works for you. It works for the ViewSonic VP930b and might work for the VP730b.
 
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