LCD Buyer's Guide

[Low Radiation]

 

[Talcite]

What's a good way to calibrate the LCD for contrast and brightness setttings? I don't see myself buying an electronic eye, but I'd like to have some setting that's relatively accurate if possible.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Low Radiation
Can someone with experience compare response times of 2080uxi and 2070nx?
Thanx guys...

I haven't used them myself, but both are rated at 16 ms and use overdrive so both are pretty decent. They would be good gaming monitors.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Talcite
What's a good way to calibrate the LCD for contrast and brightness setttings? I don't see myself buying an electronic eye, but I'd like to have some setting that's relatively accurate if possible.

I'd go through these tests and find which settings make them look best: http://lcdresource.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=29&Itemid=39

 

[samduhman]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: samduhman
Is something really wrong with Viewsonics VX2025 20" lcd or are people just dumb like me?

Here's what happened. I recieved my lcd back from their repair center (they repaired the OSD buttons) but they forgot to send back my digital cable. So I used the analog cable with a dvi adapter for a few days. A friend of mine had a spare digital cable so he gave it to me. I hooked it up and nothing, blank screen. I went through a number of troubleshooting attempts for about 5 minutes without any luck. Finally I dug down in the OSD options and there is a setting for digital or analog. I simply changed it to digital and waa laaa! I seriously thought the dvi was now bad on my lcd but it was a simple setting.

I don't know. I assume they know about the input controls. Why do I only hear it about this monitor? Perhaps it just has a different default?

Why you only hear about it with this monitor I couldn't tell you. This being my first lcd Im not fimiliar enough with them to give an experienced guess. All I can comment on is what I personally experienced. I had thought my lcds dvi port had went bad. Someone with less technical know how IMHO would have easily given up on it.

 

[Hikari]

Just wanted to warn anyone who might buy a Apple 23" Display. Apple updated the specs on their site, but it seems you get an old one most of the time. I returned mine to my Apple store since they sold me an old panel and didn't have a single new one there.

 

[Low Radiation]

Just one more question about 20wgx2. Now many of you have experience, and i'd ask you to tell me how does the monitor behave when you turn down the brightness to some comfortable level? How does white look? Is the display calm to the eyes? Which settings you recommend for normaly lit room?

I just dont want it to look washed out or dim when the brightness is set to some comfortable level.

For me, monitor must be suitable for long time daily use.

Ah, i still have the same dilemma...which one should i take (and i can choose only between these two):

1. NEC 20wgx2 - high brightness frightens me (please tell me it's calm to the eyes and that you can look at it all day)
2. NEC 2080uxi - response time frightens me (but now i saw what xtknight said....)

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Low Radiation
1. NEC 20wgx2 - high brightness frightens me (please tell me it's calm to the eyes and that you can look at it all day)

It's an IPS screen, and the high brightness is really only when you use dynamic contrast, AFAIK. You may have to ask about it on widescreengamingforum.com (lots of 20WMGX2 owners there).

 

[Low Radiation]

I know, but 470cd/m2 sounds way too high....

 

[apr]

Argh, here I am with a NEC 20WGX2, and while the image is colorful and pretty, the black levels are absolutely TERRIBLE. I've been trying all the DV modes, all possible brighness/contrast combinations, and fiddling with QuickGamma to try to bring them up. Unfortunately, no matter how hard I try, I can't see any darks below RGB 10,10,10, which is utter garbage. My broken old CRT will start showing it around RGB 3,3,3! If I remember correctly, the NEC LCD2070NX actually showed up around 5, which was acceptable, but editing black and white photos on this screen is impossible, when the lower half of the spectrum shows up as a big black blob. The special DV modes have insane banding, and advance DV will actually adjust brighness and contrast depending on what your screen is showing, so moving a photo around will make the same pixels look brighter and darker depending on where they are on the screen, which is, again, utter garbage.

I haven't tried gaming or movie watching or anything such yet, but so far the glossy coating seems more pleasant than the matte alternative of the 2070NX, but with the crappy blacks I am miserable with this screen.

I'm hoping other 20WGX2 owners will assist me and check where they start seeing the gray square on the following page:
http://www.drycreekphoto.com/Learn/Calibration/monitor_black.htm
Please report back if you can see it below 10 without bringing dithering about, and at what settings.

 

[Worthington]

My 20wmgx2 shows your square at 3,3,3. Now that i know what to look for I keep telling myself I see it at 2,2,2 but I'm pretty sure thats my imagination

Brightness is high, contrast is at 50% and sharpness is around 15% if I remember (pretty much the default settings). Using the Game profile with advanced DV mode off.

 

[apr]

Originally posted by: Worthington
My 20wmgx2 shows your square at 3,3,3. Now that i know what to look for I keep telling myself I see it at 2,2,2 but I'm pretty sure thats my imagination

What mode and settings and so on?

Edit: DV modes don't count, you have to be able to see it in "standard mode", since the DV gaming mode simply adjusts contrast as the picture changes, which is really, really bad. It also makes gradients look like big blocks of chocolate.

 

[Worthington]

Ah, your right. My bad.

Set to standard with everything else the same I see it at 6,6,6

 

[xtknight]

Set contrast and brightness to 100 with DV mode off and you still can't see lower than 6,6,6, even if it's blindingly bright at that point? I guess your only choice then is to raise gamma. That really shouldn't be happening though.

 

[ViRGE]

Originally posted by: xtknight
The LCD2070NX is slightly slower than a regular TN (~22ms) for gaming, but not too bad. It's tops in every other category. I'm not sure about anyone else but I'd gladly game on it. Just to be on the safe side I haven't put it under gaming yet, but several reviews have reported minimal ghosting. That doesn't mean what apr is saying is false but almost all LCDs (all the overdrive ones) have input lag to my knowledge. He didn't mention ghosting as a problem though.

As for apr you'd probably be happy with the NEC 20WMGX2 unless widescreen isn't your thing.

Well it arrived today, and I'm not seeing anything I'd call ghosting(though I don't own another LCD, either). I'm also not seeing any mouse lag, so I really don't have any complaints so far.

What can you tell me aobut these DV modes though, xtknight? I'm not seeing anything in the manual.

 

[guimasun]

I'm searching for a 19" LCD that works great mainly for text reading, because I'm using the computer 80% for programming !
After some web searching and articles, Dell Ultrasharp 1905FP and Sony X-Brite seems good options.
Any tip on the easiest LCD on the eyes for text reading ?

Thanks for any tip !

 

[apr]

Originally posted by: xtknight
Set contrast and brightness to 100 with DV mode off and you still can't see lower than 6,6,6, even if it's blindingly bright at that point? I guess your only choice then is to raise gamma. That really shouldn't be happening though.

I've tried it, and nothing below 9 will show up at that point. In fact I photographed the screen att brightness/contrast 100/100 and RGB 6/6/6 won't even show up at severe overexposure on the camera's part (Nikon D50). It's like it doesn't exist.

I tried using the ATI Catalyst colour settings to flip the gamma around until something showed up, and at setting 1.20 (1.0 is default) I can make out RGB 5,5,5. The downside is that it introduces severe banding in gradients. I can also increase brightness 20 points, which will allow darker grays to show up, but I stop seeing the difference between RGB 250,250,250 and 255,255,255 (bad). The panel's simply incapable of showing the spectrum from black to white properly. Above RGB 10,10,10 everything looks splendid (very minor banding depending on brightness/contrast settings, with the best results at brightness ~33 and contrast ~50), but it's quite useless for editing photos.

It's possible that it will perform differently in daylight, however, so I will report back tomorrow when the sun's up. I haven't noticed any input lag on this screen, btw.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: ViRGE
Well it arrived today, and I'm not seeing anything I'd call ghosting(though I don't own another LCD, either). I'm also not seeing any mouse lag, so I really don't have any complaints so far.

That's what I had suspected. Some people just notice more than others (not that there's anything wrong with that) and would notice it on most every, if not every, LCD.

What can you tell me about these DV modes though, xtknight? I'm not seeing anything in the manual.

I believe the DV modes are a set of presets (games, movies, text?) that adjust the adaptive contrast feature to suit the usage. I haven't owned an NEC (that'll change in 3 weeks) so I wouldn't be able to tell you the specifics.

Besides the DV modes, they also have sRGB which adjusts gamma to match the sRGB color space as much as possible, and native, which sets gamma on the monitor to 1.0 to match the TFT panel's native abilities. With sRGB you would want Windows gamma to 1.0 because the monitor is adjusting itself. With native, it's up to you to adjust gamma in Windows to calibrate it (obviously you don't have to, but the colors won't necessarily be accurate). The sRGB gamma adjustment on the monitor is always preferred.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: guimasun
I'm searching for a 19" LCD that works great mainly for text reading, because I'm using the computer 80% for programming !
After some web searching and articles, Dell Ultrasharp 1905FP and Sony X-Brite seems good options.
Any tip on the easiest LCD on the eyes for text reading ?

Thanks for any tip !

The ViewSonic VP930b would be great for that purpose (so would the 1905FP if you can find it anywhere). The Dell 1907FP is OK too I suppose but you're getting more bang for your buck with the VP930b. I wasn't impressed by the Sony X-Brites I've seen (the coating tries to make up for their poor native color reproduction).

I probably do 80% text/website/programming too and the VP930b is awesome for that. It's very good with games too (15 ms for most tones).

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: apr
I've tried it, and nothing below 9 will show up at that point. In fact I photographed the screen att brightness/contrast 100/100 and RGB 6/6/6 won't even show up at severe overexposure on the camera's part (Nikon D50). It's like it doesn't exist.

I tried using the ATI Catalyst colour settings to flip the gamma around until something showed up, and at setting 1.20 (1.0 is default) I can make out RGB 5,5,5. The downside is that it introduces severe banding in gradients. I can also increase brightness 20 points, which will allow darker grays to show up, but I stop seeing the difference between RGB 250,250,250 and 255,255,255 (bad).

You mean RGB (0,0,0) and (5,5,5) right? Or is the bright side of the scale getting clipped too? Did you say you saw dithering in the dark tones? On my VP930b the first tone that appears (to my eyes) is (2,2,2) and it is quite dithered. Did you also try setting user color to 100% on all r,g,b components at brightness 100/contrast 100? Try changing sharpness? (no clue but it's worth a try) This is with DVI?

The panel's simply incapable of showing the spectrum from black to white properly. Above RGB 10,10,10 everything looks splendid (very minor banding depending on brightness/contrast settings, with the best results at brightness ~33 and contrast ~50), but it's quite useless for editing photos.

Well, that is kinda scary. I hope that doesn't affect all units. Many reported a "perfect grayscale", but maybe they were only looking at banding.

It's possible that it will perform differently in daylight, however, so I will report back tomorrow when the sun's up. I haven't noticed any input lag on this screen, btw.

It has as little input lag as the VX922 according to the BeHardware article.

 

[nyllefjun]

Originally posted by: apr
Argh, here I am with a NEC 20WGX2, and while the image is colorful and pretty, the black levels are absolutely TERRIBLE. I've been trying all the DV modes, all possible brighness/contrast combinations, and fiddling with QuickGamma to try to bring them up. Unfortunately, no matter how hard I try, I can't see any darks below RGB 10,10,10, which is utter garbage. My broken old CRT will start showing it around RGB 3,3,3! If I remember correctly, the NEC LCD2070NX actually showed up around 5, which was acceptable, but editing black and white photos on this screen is impossible, when the lower half of the spectrum shows up as a big black blob. The special DV modes have insane banding, and advance DV will actually adjust brighness and contrast depending on what your screen is showing, so moving a photo around will make the same pixels look brighter and darker depending on where they are on the screen, which is, again, utter garbage.

I haven't tried gaming or movie watching or anything such yet, but so far the glossy coating seems more pleasant than the matte alternative of the 2070NX, but with the crappy blacks I am miserable with this screen.

I'm hoping other 20WGX2 owners will assist me and check where they start seeing the gray square on the following page:
http://www.drycreekphoto.com/Learn/Calibration/monitor_black.htm
Please report back if you can see it below 10 without bringing dithering about, and at what settings.

I don't see anything below 20,20,20 on that RGB scale.

I read some about that and some other stuff over at widescreengamingforums

Also the on the "Monitor Grayscale Test Image" page it just looks like a mess of blocks.

I am using DVI-D connection now but there is not much difference.

Can it be that I get all of the above mentioned problems just thanks to my old ti4200 card or is it a matter of tweaking and setting different options and settings in some program?
And if thats the case, please give names or a link to such programs.

I guess I was just really unlucky getting such a flawed NEC monitor :/

 

[apr]

Originally posted by: xtknight
You mean RGB (0,0,0) and (5,5,5) right? Or is the bright side of the scale getting clipped too? Did you say you saw dithering in the dark tones? On my VP930b the first tone that appears (to my eyes) is (2,2,2) and it is quite dithered. Did you also try setting user color to 100% on all r,g,b components at brightness 100/contrast 100? Try changing sharpness? (no clue but it's worth a try) This is with DVI?

No, I mean 250 and 255, since raising the brightness will simply bump up all levels by x steps, meaning 250 in effect becomes the same as 255. This is from looking at a gray level test chart, not the website linked earlier.

Yeah, it's on the DVI digital port. The LCD2070NX has much better levels than this 20WGX2. In daylight I can spot the gray box at around RGB 9,9,9, but that's not good enough for photo editing, I'm afraid.

The DV modes appear to be remapping all colour levels, but since the panel gives no leeway on the spectrum it can show, this leads to very, very apparent banding on colour (and grayscale) gradients, so while darks look slightly brighter, you have to pay for it in gradients, which is useless. It really does look awful. The "movie" DV will also adapt its mapping of brightness levels depending on what the image on the screen is like at that particular moment, so if you move a bright window from one end of the screen to another, a totally unmoved grayscale image will be changing its appearance during the motion. Obviously, this isn't what you want when trying to figure out what a photo will look like in print.

 

[xtknight]

I'm thinking there's a bad batch going around. Several (knowledgeable users that I trust) have reported absolutely no gradient problems. I'll have to check it out when I get it. I totally understand your frustration though. 16/255 ({0-9},{250-255}) is a lot of tones to sacrifice.

Here's an interesting question: are these tones only missing on a grayscale? What happens if you load up a green scale (easiest to see with the eye), 0-255? Are the ends of the spectrum still getting clipped? Does this seem to happen anywhere in the middle of the gradient?

BTW, my banding testing program will just repeat the last color to make up for scaling issues so don't go off of that.

Load up a 512x256 image, for example, and fill it, with each color element (0~255) being two pixels wide.

 

[apr]

Originally posted by: xtknight
I'm thinking there's a bad batch going around. Several (knowledgeable users that I trust) have reported absolutely no gradient problems. I'll have to check it out when I get it. I totally understand your frustration though. 16/255 ({0-9},{250-255}) is a lot of tones to sacrifice.

Maybe you're misunderstanding me. The gradients look fine in DV standard, but are horrible in the "special" DV modes. I can also see the difference between the upper levels (250-255) fine in DV standard. The trouble occurs when I try to fiddle with gamma to see RGB 5,5,5 since this will mess up gradients a whole lot, along with clipping a bit of the top whites. Thus the choice is either seeing 10-255 with good gradients, or 5-250 with bad gradients.

 

[ViRGE]

Okay, I just noticed something odd on the 2070NX. I just tried that PixPerAn program that someone linked to a page or two ago, and noticed on the loading screen that the car(or whatever it is) isn't scrolling smoothly. It's hiccuping(for the lack of a better word) about once a second, as if it was skipping a frame(but the frame counter clearly shows its properly rendering all the frames). Does anyone know what this is about?