LCD Buyer's Guide

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xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: Liran xD
Thanks again xtknight I invited the 730B but...OMG another problem \=
they said in the store they don't import the screen anymore since it's old and it's the same situation almost in all the stores here

so I'm thinking about the 731B or 740B -
They written on their site the 740B has 4:3 aspect ratio compare to 5:4 on most LCD's is it a mistake ? if not is it better ?
and another thing about those 2 the 731B is catagorized as "LCD- Analog" and the 740B as "LCD- Digital" :S
which one is known as better ?

I'd get the 731B. It'd probably be faster than the 740B. Both are digital (the B at the end is digital, N at the end is analog). I haven't really noticed a huge difference among Samsung's monitors. They all seem consistently high quality, except for a few that have response time problems.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
I've got an NEC 20WMGX2-BK en route from Newegg so you should expect a comprehensive review by Friday.
 

Liran xD

Junior Member
Aug 21, 2006
22
0
0
Originally posted by: xtknight
Originally posted by: Liran xD
Thanks again xtknight I invited the 730B but...OMG another problem \=
they said in the store they don't import the screen anymore since it's old and it's the same situation almost in all the stores here

so I'm thinking about the 731B or 740B -
They written on their site the 740B has 4:3 aspect ratio compare to 5:4 on most LCD's is it a mistake ? if not is it better ?
and another thing about those 2 the 731B is catagorized as "LCD- Analog" and the 740B as "LCD- Digital" :S
which one is known as better ?

I'd get the 731B. It'd probably be faster than the 740B. Both are digital (the B at the end is digital, N at the end is analog). I haven't really noticed a huge difference among Samsung's monitors. They all seem consistently high quality, except for a few that have response time problems.

You probably mean BF series ? I heard a lot of bad about them
Anyway it's for sure the 731B has no problem?
You had any experience with these ?
Thanks, Liran.

 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: Liran xD
You probably mean BF series ? I heard a lot of bad about them
but it's for sure the 731B has no problem?
You had any experience with these ?
Thanks, Liran.

The 940B had a 40ms. response time so that's why I'd stay away from the 740B. The 731B I saw at the store the other day looked great. I'm pretty sure it doesn't have any response time problem. The 940BF is an excellent monitor as well, but the 930BF had some bad problems.
 

Liran xD

Junior Member
Aug 21, 2006
22
0
0
Originally posted by: xtknight
Originally posted by: Liran xD
You probably mean BF series ? I heard a lot of bad about them
but it's for sure the 731B has no problem?
You had any experience with these ?
Thanks, Liran.

The 940B had a 40ms. response time so that's why I'd stay away from the 740B. The 731B I saw at the store the other day looked great. I'm pretty sure it doesn't have any response time problem. The 940BF is an excellent monitor as well, but the 930BF had some bad problems.

40ms ? :S
You mean by benchmarks because by samsung specs it's 8ms
I'll look for where I can see the 731B, thanks.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: Liran xD
40ms ? :S
You mean by benchmarks because by samsung specs it's 8ms
I'll look for where I can see the 731B, thanks.

Yeah, X-Bit Labs measured 35~40 ms. on the Samsung 940B.
 

nevbie

Member
Jan 10, 2004
150
5
76
Originally posted by: xtknight
I've got an NEC 20WMGX2-BK en route from Newegg so you should expect a comprehensive review by Friday.

As I haven't done the final decision yet... please explore the scaling options of that display (4:3 doesn't work, right?). You posted a link to powerstrip forums at the other thread here, if that way works well it might be enough.

Remember, an useful review tries to find out what is Wrong with the display, not listing all good things.
 

Liran xD

Junior Member
Aug 21, 2006
22
0
0
Hi I hope next time i'll reply here as a one who had experience with a LCD :]
anyway after the eliminations i've got 2 options left- 731B or L1732TQ
By specs the LG is better
anyone knows else or can give a personal experience or review?
Thanks for this awesome forum,
Liran.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: nevbie
Originally posted by: xtknight
I've got an NEC 20WMGX2-BK en route from Newegg so you should expect a comprehensive review by Friday.

As I haven't done the final decision yet... please explore the scaling options of that display (4:3 doesn't work, right?). You posted a link to powerstrip forums at the other thread here, if that way works well it might be enough.

Remember, an useful review tries to find out what is Wrong with the display, not listing all good things.

I'll be sure to do that but I only have an NVIDIA card (which we know works anyway). I can confirm what scaling the monitor has by sending it a smaller native signal though.

Originally posted by: Liran xD
Hi I hope next time i'll reply here as a one who had experience with a LCD :]
anyway after the eliminations i've got 2 options left- 731B or L1732TQ
By specs the LG is better
anyone knows else or can give a personal experience or review?
Thanks for this awesome forum,
Liran.

From what I saw the 731B was about the best you could get for a 17", but I haven't seen the LG. I'll just have to go off what I've read. The LG has the adaptive contrast stuff and I already recommend two of their high-contrast LCDs so I have little doubt it'd be good. I don't think you'd be disappointed with it.
 

Liran xD

Junior Member
Aug 21, 2006
22
0
0
Originally posted by: xtknight
From what I saw the 731B was about the best you could get for a 17", but I haven't seen the LG. I'll just have to go off what I've read. The LG has the adaptive contrast stuff and I already recommend two of their high-contrast LCDs so I have little doubt it'd be good. I don't think you'd be disappointed with it.

So you say if i'll go to a store and see the LG and will like it I should take it ?
like for games it'll probably be good
and if not i'll take the 731B

and thanks again for your kindly help

 

Insom1

Junior Member
Aug 22, 2006
2
0
0
Originally posted by: xtknight

The Samsung 940BF is a great monitor for you and it's only about $300 in the US. Now the only thing I'm unsure about is height adjustment.

One LCD I know has height adjustment is the ViewSonic VP930b (because I have one right in front of me). It rotates into portrait mode as well. And the VP930b is quite good for gaming too, with a higher contrast. It's available almost everywhere at a very reasonable price (<$320) so I'd recommend that.

From the surface of table upon which the VP930b sits to the absolute bottom of the active display area, there exists 16.9 centimeters of space. It can adjust down all the way to about 3.4 cm using the same methodology (until it hits the feet). The bezel is 1.5 cm thick all around. The feet consume about 1 cm of height.

Thanks for that Xtknight.

One final question, how does the Viewsonic VX924 stack up against the two products you mentioned? It's more expensive but what would the speed/quality difference be in real terms do you think?

Thanks again,

Insom.
 

imported_Cicero

Junior Member
Jun 25, 2006
18
0
0
I assume no one has posted this info before (I couldn't find it using the forum search engine).
Here are the specs of the new 22" VX2235wm from Viewsonic:

VX2235wm details from Viewsonic Australia

Also got an email from Samsung Australia about their new 19" LCD 931C

Samsung 931C

The VX2235wm is a reasonable price. Response time is claimed to be 5ms. Looks like it is aimed at the video gamer/movie watchers.

The new Samsung has a contrast ratio of 2000:1
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: Insom1
Thanks for that Xtknight.

One final question, how does the Viewsonic VX924 stack up against the two products you mentioned? It's more expensive but what would the speed/quality difference be in real terms do you think?

Thanks again,

Insom.

I would say the VX924 isn't as good as either of them.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: nevbie
Why isn't the THG review in the list of NEC 20WMGX2 reviews? (http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/06/27/xxl_displays/page7.html)
THG and xbitlabs seem to be the sites that measure the most.

I haven't updated it in awhile (it's for old LCDs). Nowadays I'd catch any new review out there a couple days after it was posted, so I don't need to go scouring all over the Internet indexing them. If I find a review interesting for some reason (it mentions something the others don't), I'll usually post it here but it's generally just more of the same (what every other review has echoed). I try to keep track of the THG/X-Bit Labs ones pretty well so I'll add it in.

I'll probably keep waiting for new LCDs to pop out.. how often does this LCD market refresh? (if that question can be answered at all)
Reading reviews is pretty fun. ;P

It really doesn't like graphics cards do. There is no 'generation' (besides size of LCD glass which is totally irrelevant).
 

ViRGE

Elite Member, Moderator Emeritus
Oct 9, 1999
31,516
167
106
So I've been messing around with the 2070NX looking for the tearing problem apr mentioned, and he seems to be right. The monitor seems to be pretty sensitive to the lack of v-sync in general, but it's worse in a scaled mode, even with v-sync enabled. Thankfully scaling the image using the video card instead of the monitor seems to solve it(and produces overall visual results that on first-glance seem to be just as good as the monitor's own scalers), but it's something to keep in mind if you're picking up this monitor.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: ViRGE
So I've been messing around with the 2070NX looking for the tearing problem apr mentioned, and he seems to be right. The monitor seems to be pretty sensitive to the lack of v-sync in general, but it's worse in a scaled mode, even with v-sync enabled. Thankfully scaling the image using the video card instead of the monitor seems to solve it(and produces overall visual results that on first-glance seem to be just as good as the monitor's own scalers), but it's something to keep in mind if you're picking up this monitor.

I just needed more confirmation of that before I add it to the OP but I have now. Do you notice any difference in refresh rate (the one reported in monitor OSD) while the monitor scales vs. when the graphics card scales? Like subtle .1 Hz differences?
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: Cicero
I assume no one has posted this info before (I couldn't find it using the forum search engine).
Here are the specs of the new 22" VX2235wm from Viewsonic:

VX2235wm details from Viewsonic Australia

Also got an email from Samsung Australia about their new 19" LCD 931C

Samsung 931C

The VX2235wm is a reasonable price. Response time is claimed to be 5ms. Looks like it is aimed at the video gamer/movie watchers.

The new Samsung has a contrast ratio of 2000:1

Thanks for the info. I'd heard about the VX2235wm (though no official spec page) but not the 931C yet. Samsung is coming out with new LCDs in droves. Another to look out for is the 940BX. I've heard great things about it on Newegg. It may be a 940BF replacer.

Whoa. The 931C has 97% NTSC color gamut. Wide Colour Gamut (CCFL 97%)! This is a sign of things to come. They are apparently finally producing these things.
 

ViRGE

Elite Member, Moderator Emeritus
Oct 9, 1999
31,516
167
106
Originally posted by: xtknight
Originally posted by: ViRGE
So I've been messing around with the 2070NX looking for the tearing problem apr mentioned, and he seems to be right. The monitor seems to be pretty sensitive to the lack of v-sync in general, but it's worse in a scaled mode, even with v-sync enabled. Thankfully scaling the image using the video card instead of the monitor seems to solve it(and produces overall visual results that on first-glance seem to be just as good as the monitor's own scalers), but it's something to keep in mind if you're picking up this monitor.

I just needed more confirmation of that before I add it to the OP but I have now. Do you notice any difference in refresh rate (the one reported in monitor OSD) while the monitor scales vs. when the graphics card scales? Like subtle .1 Hz differences?
I get 60hz on the dot when the monitor scales, 60.3 when the video card scales(though the default rate for the monitor at lower resolutions is actually higher, 75hz@1024 for example).
 

imported_Cicero

Junior Member
Jun 25, 2006
18
0
0
Originally posted by: xtknight

Thanks for the info. I'd heard about the VX2235wm (though no official spec page) but not the 931C yet. Samsung is coming out with new LCDs in droves. Another to look out for is the 940BX. I've heard great things about it on Newegg. It may be a 940BF replacer.

Whoa. The 931C has 97% NTSC color gamut. Wide Colour Gamut (CCFL 97%)! This is a sign of things to come. They are apparently finally producing these things.

No problem!



I'm extremely pleased with the Samsung 215TW and am now going to replace the old Dell 21" CRT on my other puter in 3 weeks time. I am thinking about getting another 215TW but that 931C looks most interesting.

 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
First of all, you people better be happy I'm willing to stare at a text editor on this thing for this long (470 nits hurts you know). But here's my thoughts. This will be a brutal and honest review, I promise.

INITIAL IMPRESSIONS

This thing is quite a bit shorter than my ViewSonic VP930b 19" (by 30mm.) Very shiny though. I immediately noticed glare on the OptiClear screen, but not as much as I was expecting given all the flak this LCD has received for that very aspect. The next thing I noticed was much more screen door effect than my VP930b. The damper lines separating the pixels are apparently a lot darker on this LCD. Even with the coating, the screen door effect is pretty noticeable (only up close). When I sit back and use my glasses, I can't tell the screen door is there at all. Colors are pure. So, I will continue and do that.

+5 MINUTES

Glare? What glare? After using it for just a bit, I don't even see how you can be bothered by it.

THE ANALYSIS

I haven't seen any stuck or dead pixels. Showing a full black screen reveals a dark faintish blue at the settings I like (brightness: 100, contrast: 40, DV mode: standard). I can't say I'm really surprised. The coating makes a full black screen worse as well (brownish tones appear). I leave advanced DV mode off. I don't care for the effect for desktop usage. Even scrolling on a website to reveal other elements of it modulates the backlight. It's just irritating. For photos however, the quality it reveals is unequivocal.

Forget looking at a full black screen to test uniformity. Pictures are simply stunning. Better than any CRT I've seen. Better than any LCD I've ever seen (perhaps a couple S-IPS LCD TVs are close). The black is deep. When I say deep I mean you can reach through the monitor and grab it. It's deep and pure like you spilled some pitch black ink. Colors are extremely contrasted from each other. I don't miss my last LCD one bit.

My last monitor, a ViewSonic VP930b, in sRGB mode (yielding roughly 300 nits) bothered my eyes a lot. Turning the brightness down helped. With the 20WMGX2, since it's 470 nits, I was prepared to turn the brightness down a lot. Guess what? I left it at 100. It's not even bothering my eyes. I was joking when I said it hurt in the first paragraph (I was sure it would after a couple minutes). But nope. I don't know how to explain that (different phosphors?), but the backlight on this monitor does not bother my eyes at all despite being significantly brighter. That's a godsend. Of course, I'll have to see how it goes throughout the week. Maybe my eyes are just not sensitive today. Speaking of that, I'll definitely be reporting any oddities (such as dithering) that I notice in later posts. Let's hope I don't need to. I have not seen any dithering so far.

Ghosting is hardly even noticeable, let alone bothersome. There's a trail maybe <1 mm. tall when moving a black-on-white text document vertically. It's pretty much still readable while you move it. Well, that may be stretching it, but it really is not bad at all. If you were wondering, no, it's not as fast as a CRT.

The OptiClear coating is simply amazing. It makes it look perfect. Flawlessly, seamlessly pure and saturated colors.

Viewing angles are great. If you tilt beyond, say 30 degrees, you will notice an ever so slight fading beginning. At 60 degrees, it doesn't look awesome like it does at zero degrees, but it's certainly usable. I'd use this thing at 60 degrees any day over my old LCD at zero degrees. At 89 degrees, there's not much difference from 60 degrees. Still perfectly usable and looks great if not awesome. Essentially, it starts fading at 30 degrees, and it fades only a tad more after that.

Overall, I'm floored, mostly by the image quality. The response time isn't that much better than my old LCD, which was pretty fast in and of itself. I would say maybe 15 ms. actual on average, and 10 ms. on bright colors. But wow is the overdrive much more controlled. It's amazing. There's no bleeding like there was on my VP930b. This test image used to be an absolute disaster on my VP930b. Colors would seep around everywhere and stuff would bleed. With my NEC, I don't even notice anything more than usual. I will never understand why THG rated this monitor lower than the VP930b for overdrive control. They are blatantly mistaken.


Overview:
+Pure, saturated colors with the help of the OptiClear coating
+Great viewing angle
+Amazing response time and overdrive control (much better control than my VP930b)
+No dithering; true 8-bit
+Sharpness control on DVI
+No dead pixels on my unit
+No screen door effect at ~1.5 ft. away from screen

-Uniformity isn't perfect
-Advanced DV mode is stranger than I thought (it fades in a dithery pattern)
-More screen door at close up use than anticipated
-Raising the contrast at high brightness clips the grayscale (much like the VP930b, I didn't mention this earlier)
-Only 60 Hz refresh rate at native 1680x1050

Rating: 9/10 (sounds cliche, but I mean it). The nitpicks are minor.

There are so many subtle things that make this monitor awesome, like sharpness control even on DVI. The DV modes and presets are great, and I'm not even done messing around with those. I'll try and experiment more in-depth tonight with the settings, scaling, etc. I haven't even gone into the TV tuner, PIP, or other features. I'm not done yet. I'll cover banding/gradients later on as well.
 

Skott

Diamond Member
Oct 4, 2005
5,730
1
76
Originally posted by: xtknight
First of all, you people better be happy I'm willing to stare at a text editor on this thing for this long (470 nits hurts you know). But here's my thoughts. This will be a brutal and honest review, I promise.


Xknight,
You will surely go down in history as a person who gave up alot of time and energy to do all this testing and did it well. You are greatly appreciated and deserve many big KUDOS! I Salute You!

/salute

P.S. Nice review btw.
 
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