LCD Buyer's Guide

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: eeric
hi everyone, first of all a big thanks to xtknight and all for this thread, its an awesome resource.

Welcome to the forums..

anyways, i'm currently in the process of replacing my aging samsung 19" 955df crt, and i'm considering the Viewsonic VX2025WM 20.1" widescreen. it might just be me, but i thought it was one of the recommended monitors in the first post a while ago, but its no where to be found now.

It was, until lots had DVI issues with it. I can't believe ViewSonic hasn't fixed them yet. You have to void the warranty to fix them yourself (flashing the EDID) and that's just ridiculous IMO.

considering its price (~$350 CDN, i live in toronto) and reviews it seems like a good choice, but is there something i don't know about this lcd that should keep me away? the only thing i've read is that it doesn't 1:1 pixel scaling for traditional aspect ratios, and the general viewsonic problems ("high gamma/washout effect"). I plan to use it for general use (work, study, movies) as well as gaming (lots of WoW, FPshooters now and then). any comments or help would be greatly appreciated. thanks in advance.

Well, have you considered the LG L204WT as listed in the recommendations list? I think this is the best alternative price-wise to the ViewSonic and IMO it's better in many ways. It's available at futureshop.ca and is very close in price.

btw this is my system i'm running:
Msi neo4 platinum (non-SLI)
Amd x2 3800+
ATI x800XL
OCZ Premier 2x512MB Dual Channel

If I may, I suggest a video card upgrade if you want to play with higher settings at 1680x1050. You can see how it goes though.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: lepump
Any intel on samsung+vista 22'' monitor?
http://www.engadget.com/2006/07/27/samsungs-new-22-inch-widescreen-lcd/
http://www.engadget.com/2006/06/29/micr...with-samsung-on-22-inch-lcd-for-vista/

same as 215TW but 1'' more and faster response time?

I would say, same as 205BW but 2" more because it's a TN. Fast response time/6-bit and viewing angles get darker from horizontal viewing (vs. brighter for PVAs). I'm not expecting miracles until we see some true 8-bit color and high-contrast 22"s.

 

[imported_neon]

Hello,

I have 3 systems that are used for different purposes, and 2 monitors. So I need another monitor, and would appreciate advice.

System A: Gaming (6800 GT)
System B: Video editing (X600 All In Wonder)
System C: Everyday use, email, web browsing, scanning, photo editing, some website development (7600 GS)

Monitor 1: Samsung 900NF 19" CRT Aperture Grille 0.25mm
Monitor 2: NEC 1980SX 19" TFT-LCD PVA 25ms panel Samsung LTM190E1-L03

So I was thinking of matching A-1 and B-2, and buying a new monitor to go with system C. It could be a 19-21" 8-bit non-TN panel. I like the NEC 1980SX, and initially thought the new NEC 90 series monitors would be good, such as 1990SXi or 2090UXi, but they are kinda spendy. So, here are some candidates that I think would be suitable:
NEC 2070NX
NEC 1970NX
Samsung 204t
Samsung 215tw
LG L2000C
BenQ FP2092

Should I match up B-2 and get a new monitor for System C, OR match C-2 and get a new monitor for System B?
Of the candidates above, how would you rank them for the intended uses?
Are there other monitors that would also be good candidates?

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: xtknight
White still looks white at brightness 18.7%, contrast 15.0% (Advanced DVM off). Anything lower isn't quite white IMO. It's OK for text but not that contrasted.

What I prefer for text is:
Brightness: 60.9%
Sharpness: 20.8%
DV Mode: Gaming (changes contrast and color temp for you)
Advanced DVM: On

I love advanced DVM. It's awesome for most things. Maybe for web browsing I'd turn it off. But for plain old text, games, HD video it'll be left on.

I'm typing over a cyan background right now (AnandTech theme), and this looks contrasted at the above settings.

Text is very high contrast here and it doesn't feel too hard on the eyes. I changed my mind about advanced DVM. I actually like it for text work. Whenever you turn it on it seems to darken everything (reduce blinding brightness) but it maps the colors correctly.

Granted it's not all the monitor's fault the text isn't perfectly contrasted. I'm sure if I told it to display pure black text it would look decent on almost any setting. Unfortunately I can't do that. I definitely need my text anti-aliased.

I still don't quite understand how these DV modes work. Some change the brightness/contrast, some don't.

My gamma on the OS/video card side has been 1.0,1.0,1.0 all throughout, and I intend to keep it that way. Otherwise I'd be clipping the gamut.

The biggest challenge is getting text to look as good in contrast as HD content does. If you raise the contrast too high, the white/light background of your text editor will be blinding. On the other hand, I want the text to be sharply contrasted, just at a lower brightness. What is clear is that I should probably get some more ambient lighting (it's pretty dark in here thanks to the light that burned out). That helps things a lot.

The best scene yet I've seen this monitor produce is this one: http://xtknight.atothosting.com/hd/bbcjapan1.png

On this one, I wouldn't be able to tell if the inferno was inside my monitor or in a video: http://xtknight.atothosting.com/hd/bbcjapan2.png

This is from the Quicktime HD gallery (BBC Japan H.264 1080p). It produces picture elements in one screen in a way three other monitors couldn't if they were to attempt each element individually. The gamut and contrast is incredible. The AS-IPS panel looks its most amazing at a low brightness. Everything is extremely saturated and deep but does not look oversaturated at all.

Other LCDs just can't produce these deep colors in an effective way (too much backlight is let through). Only S-IPS monitors truly can. Basically it's the quality of a high-end rear-projection CRT with a flat profile and a crystal clear image and small dot pitch. As for the granite object at the right of that pic, you might as well be looking through a window. The violet on the parasol is perfect. The depth of field down the path is reproduced brilliantly. Vegetation on the left is a very deep/intense lush green, but without being oversaturated in the least.

I'm glad you like it told ya. "NEC 20WMGX2 pwns all"

... we differ extremely on settings. I find your brightness way too high but I only work in a room with a 60w lamp and no windows and dark wood walls. Also I find ADV mode extremly distracting, it's delayed automatic ajustments just bother me when the screen chnages it's contrast or brightness or whatever it decides to do automatically.

My Settings are
Brightness 39%
Contrast 50%
Sharness 16.6%
ADV mnode - off
DV mode - standard all the time. (we went though this before and standard seems to offer the best combo)
RGB mode native of course with DVI.


BTW this thread was good before but since checking in last this thread has turned really into the ultimate LCD thread you've really outdone yourself... Thank you very much xknight for your efforts.:thumbsup:

 

[eeric]

Thanks for the quick response. I've just searched around for more info on the LG display.

I've read some forum posts around and some customer reviews and there seem to be some complaints (aside from aesthetics, particularly the so-so stand) about various quality issues. I'm tempted to say that its probably defective panels those people have, but I can't seem to find any reliable sites who have done full reviews on this LCD yet, strangely enough. Any place I could find an in depth test of this LCD? Oh and for curiousity's sake, what kind of DVI issues are the Viewsonics having?

Actually, I forgot to mention I'm not in a particular rush, I'm willing to wait a month or two, and with the gradient problem fixed in the 2007WFP in the new revision, should I just wait for the next Dell sale and grab one of those (last Dell sale 2 weeks ago it was only 379.99)? The height adjust and pivot Dell's have would be a very nice feature to have.

Thanks!

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: eeric
hi everyone, first of all a big thanks to xtknight and all for this thread, its an awesome resource.

Welcome to the forums..

anyways, i'm currently in the process of replacing my aging samsung 19" 955df crt, and i'm considering the Viewsonic VX2025WM 20.1" widescreen. it might just be me, but i thought it was one of the recommended monitors in the first post a while ago, but its no where to be found now.

It was, until lots had DVI issues with it. I can't believe ViewSonic hasn't fixed them yet. You have to void the warranty to fix them yourself (flashing the EDID) and that's just ridiculous IMO.

considering its price (~$350 CDN, i live in toronto) and reviews it seems like a good choice, but is there something i don't know about this lcd that should keep me away? the only thing i've read is that it doesn't 1:1 pixel scaling for traditional aspect ratios, and the general viewsonic problems ("high gamma/washout effect"). I plan to use it for general use (work, study, movies) as well as gaming (lots of WoW, FPshooters now and then). any comments or help would be greatly appreciated. thanks in advance.

Well, have you considered the LG L204WT as listed in the recommendations list? I think this is the best alternative price-wise to the ViewSonic and IMO it's better in many ways. It's available at futureshop.ca and is very close in price.

btw this is my system i'm running:
Msi neo4 platinum (non-SLI)
Amd x2 3800+
ATI x800XL
OCZ Premier 2x512MB Dual Channel

If I may, I suggest a video card upgrade if you want to play with higher settings at 1680x1050. You can see how it goes though.

 

[Tifosi248F1]

Hello there neon, I noticed the 2070nx on your list of considerations. I am now the proud owner of that monitor and I am in awe. After using an 18" viewable CRT for so long, a 20" screen looks huge. It looks wonderful with 2D apps, exceptionally clear text and a very good viewing size. Nothing is so small that you need to squint to see it. I've only had it for a little over a day, and I plan posting a better, more thorough review of it on here in a couple days. A few things I noticed were it was insanely bright out of the box, for me anyway, others may not think it's as bright. And adjusting things to suit my tastes caused it to be a tad off calibration, so I had to fix it so greyscale gamuts displayed correctly. I've got a lot to tinker with so hopefully I can get it pretty close to prefect, although I don't know where to start. Anyway, I bought mine to be the main monitor with my CRT as a second display. I plan to do all my photo editing/drawing/designing/video editing timelines on the LCD and use the CRT for the video preview windows and gaming, and of course anything else that makes a 2nd monitor nice.

And xtknight or anyone else...now that I have everything up and running, what is the best way to get my monitor just right? Running nView in dualmode, I can't quite figure out how to calibrate each monitor and apply a profile to each. It seems to apply the same profile to both. I looked everywhere for a how-to for nView and calibration/profiling but nothing is helpful enough. Thanks in advance guys.

 

[steved72]

HI all

I used to have the Benq 93gx lcd, sold it. Looking at the LG 1970HR, anyone know how it is and if it is any better than the Benq?

 

[Low Radiation]

One question for xtknight and other proud 20wgx2 owners:

Now when some time has passed, is it really easy on the eyes with some normal settings and do you still say that it has some strange backlight that doesn't hurt eyes even on high values?

Thanx a lot...

 

[imported_neon]

Hello Tifosi, the 2070nx is intentionally high on that list. It seems like that monitor and the Samsung 215tw get a lot of praise here, and I have had a good experience with my NEC 1980sx.

I would second your request for a monitor calibration how-to.

 

[Low Radiation]

And once again, if we forget about the price, please tell me a few words about NEC 20wgx2 vs NEC 2007wfp

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: neon
Hello,

I have 3 systems that are used for different purposes, and 2 monitors. So I need another monitor, and would appreciate advice.

System A: Gaming (6800 GT)
System B: Video editing (X600 All In Wonder)
System C: Everyday use, email, web browsing, scanning, photo editing, some website development (7600 GS)

Monitor 1: Samsung 900NF 19" CRT Aperture Grille 0.25mm
Monitor 2: NEC 1980SX 19" TFT-LCD PVA 25ms panel Samsung LTM190E1-L03

So I was thinking of matching A-1 and B-2, and buying a new monitor to go with system C.

Sounds good to me.

It could be a 19-21" 8-bit non-TN panel. I like the NEC 1980SX, and initially thought the new NEC 90 series monitors would be good, such as 1990SXi or 2090UXi, but they are kinda spendy. So, here are some candidates that I think would be suitable:
NEC 2070NX
NEC 1970NX
Samsung 204t
Samsung 215tw
LG L2000C
BenQ FP2092

The NEC LCD2070NX is the best for general usage, like System C. The 215TW would be good for multimedia, but the NEC (S-IPS) is just better for your purposes: good color saturation at normal brightness, and wide viewing angles. The L2000C has banding issues and the rest just aren't competitive (inaccurate colors).

Should I match up B-2 and get a new monitor for System C, OR match C-2 and get a new monitor for System B?
Of the candidates above, how would you rank them for the intended uses?
Are there other monitors that would also be good candidates?

Using the LCD2070NX for System C definitely sounds like the best option.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Zebo
I'm glad you like it told ya. "NEC 20WMGX2 pwns all"

Indeed.

... we differ extremely on settings. I find your brightness way too high but I only work in a room with a 60w lamp and no windows and dark wood walls. Also I find ADV mode extremly distracting, it's delayed automatic ajustments just bother me when the screen chnages it's contrast or brightness or whatever it decides to do automatically.

Right now I'm using brightness: 30.4%, contrast 33%. I have a tendency to adjust it a lot.

My Settings are
Brightness 39%
Contrast 50%
Sharness 16.6%
ADV mnode - off
DV mode - standard all the time. (we went though this before and standard seems to offer the best combo)
RGB mode native of course with DVI.

ADV is frustrating for web or general usage but if I'm just staring at a text document it's decent. Not that it makes much difference there, but it does seem to lower the brightness in a unique way.

DV mode-text for forums, and DV mode-movie for everything else.

BTW this thread was good before but since checking in last this thread has turned really into the ultimate LCD thread you've really outdone yourself... Thank you very much xknight for your efforts.:thumbsup:

Thanks. I plan to continue.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: eeric
Thanks for the quick response. I've just searched around for more info on the LG display.

I've read some forum posts around and some customer reviews and there seem to be some complaints (aside from aesthetics, particularly the so-so stand) about various quality issues. I'm tempted to say that its probably defective panels those people have, but I can't seem to find any reliable sites who have done full reviews on this LCD yet, strangely enough.

I did read about some having an ununiform screen but others say there was no backlight bleeding at all, so I'm not sure what to think. There's been a drought of pro reviews. I just have to go off my gut instinct and what users say. HardForum has a big thread on the L204WT.

Any place I could find an in depth test of this LCD? Oh and for curiousity's sake, what kind of DVI issues are the Viewsonics having?

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1040780&highlight=dvi_recover

Actually, I forgot to mention I'm not in a particular rush, I'm willing to wait a month or two, and with the gradient problem fixed in the 2007WFP in the new revision, should I just wait for the next Dell sale and grab one of those (last Dell sale 2 weeks ago it was only 379.99)? The height adjust and pivot Dell's have would be a very nice feature to have.

The Dell sure is better. I wasn't aware it was available for that cheap in Canada. Go for it.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Low Radiation
One question for xtknight and other proud 20wgx2 owners:

Now when some time has passed, is it really easy on the eyes with some normal settings and do you still say that it has some strange backlight that doesn't hurt eyes even on high values?

Thanx a lot...

Nah...I've kept my brightness much lower lately. If you sit farther back it's not nearly as bad though. Only >70% is uncomfortable for me. I do have a cold though so I'm sure my eyes are more sensitive than when I didn't. With reasonable settings like brightness 30/contrast 30/ADVM off it's just fine.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Tifosi248F1
And xtknight or anyone else...now that I have everything up and running, what is the best way to get my monitor just right? Running nView in dualmode, I can't quite figure out how to calibrate each monitor and apply a profile to each. It seems to apply the same profile to both. I looked everywhere for a how-to for nView and calibration/profiling but nothing is helpful enough. Thanks in advance guys.

Calibration should probably only be done on the monitor itself unless you have a hardware calibrator that correctly adjusts software gamma compensation. Show the calibration screen and then adjust each monitor with its OSD. I haven't been able to find that much information about calibrating LCDs. The best I can do is direct you to the calibration category on my website: http://lcdresource.com/index.php?option...k=category&sectionid=5&id=22&Itemid=39

Modern ones probably pass the image tests easily so beyond that I'm just not sure. Everything still struggles with gradients though. I would recommend using the CMYK windowed gradient program and adjusting it so each step looks like a consistent increase in brightness to the last.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: steved72
HI all

I used to have the Benq 93gx lcd, sold it. Looking at the LG 1970HR, anyone know how it is and if it is any better than the Benq?

I suspect that it has a more accurate gamma and higher contrast. I haven't seen them tested against each other so I'm not sure.

 

[Captk]

 

[Captk]

I decided to order the Samsung 940BX, all of the reviews I've read are very positive and several remarks about games playing excellent. I'll post back after I try it out. I ordered from Buy.com, opened another credit card and took the cheapest shipping option ending up at $234 delivered.
Ken

 

[imported_neon]

Originally posted by: xtknight
Using the LCD2070NX for System C definitely sounds like the best option.

Thanks xtknight,
That is the direction that I was already leaning towards. I value your opinion.

 

[Low Radiation]

xtknight and others, how does 20wgx2 work with dark scenes in games?

thanx

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Low Radiation
And once again, if we forget about the price, please tell me a few words about NEC 20wgx2 vs NEC 2007wfp

This article sums it up nicely for the most part:

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1945228,00.asp

Despite the NEC's lack of scaling options in PC mode (it has great options for multimedia modes like when viewing component), I'd take it any day over the Dell because of the TV tuner and component input. I view the glossy coating as a plus too (though some people despise it).

 

[imported_mingus]

What are the differences on the latest revision Dell 2007WFP's?

I buying 2 monitors so the NEC's are a bit much. It's probably either the Samsung 215TW or Dell 2007WFP. I'm not much of a gamer.

Now I see an Samsung 204BW along with the 205BW, wonder what the difference is. I know the BW monitors are the lower-end Samsungs.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Low Radiation
xtknight and others, how does 20wgx2 work with dark scenes in games?

thanx

It handles them brilliantly. The only thing is, make sure you don't use photo mode because, even though it looks the most contrasty, it hides dark details. FEAR looked good to me with minimal banding. It looked like some saturation was lost in extremely dark cases, but that's going to happen with every LCD. It's much better than with my VP930b.

 

[Low Radiation]

OK...time for buying has come, so...

20wgx2 sound just perfect for me...i'm pretty sure about averything except high brightness, since that's highly subjective thing to talk about....but most of you say that it calm to the eyes, and i have to belive you , because i can;t see the monitor in person. Ah...i'll just pray that it's possible to work many hours a day on it

Glossy screen isn't a problem for me, so the brightness is the only thing i'm gonna think of in next few days until it arrives

 

[leglez]

Here

Is this a good entry left HD monitor? I am looking for something that I will be able to hook PS3 and Xbox 360 up to. I will be using it in a dual monitor setup and want to be able to switch one to a PS3 or X360 easily. I want to get 2 Wide screen 19" monitors. And this is the only one on newegg that was HD Ready.