LCD Buyer's Guide

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lepump

Member
Aug 24, 2006
47
0
0
Thanks xtknight

..LG L204WT-SF would be a good monitor to try out until i fall in love with a LED modell.
And I would have use for a spare monitor, so it wouldn't be going in the trash afterwards..
Can you enlighten me on the LG? Or should I just forget about it and pay 130? more for the Dell 2007WFP?
 

lepump

Member
Aug 24, 2006
47
0
0
..so would the Dell 2007WFP with an S-IPS panel be better for image editing than the S-PVA Samsung 215TW?
 

Kung Foo

Junior Member
Sep 24, 2006
10
0
0
I wouldn't be so dramatic about the viewing angles. At least I won't be viewing the monitor anywhere near 170 degrees.
It's however a bit different if the image quality or detail level drops already if you're viewing inside 90 degrees or so.

Oh, don't be expecting to hear from my experiences too soon - the LG 204 seems to be selling here more than what they can import. So the delivery of the monitor (if I now decide to order it) would take at least two weeks, propably more
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: lepump
Thanks xtknight

..LG L204WT-SF would be a good monitor to try out until i fall in love with a LED modell.
And I would have use for a spare monitor, so it wouldn't be going in the trash afterwards..
Can you enlighten me on the LG? Or should I just forget about it and pay 130? more for the Dell 2007WFP?

The LG is a 6-bit TN with great black level, uniformity, and response time. It's probably the best TN out there. I wouldn't let the 6-bit part disappoint you though. It dithers to 8-bit just like every other 6-bit, and I think they've got the dithering pretty unnoticeable now. Many people thought it was some '8-bit TN'.

My recommendation is to sacrifice just a bit now and get the LG and then save up for one of the really good LED LCDs.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: lepump
..so would the Dell 2007WFP with an S-IPS panel be better for image editing than the S-PVA Samsung 215TW?

That's a hard question but I think the 215TW is still superior. It has higher contrast and a better black level. The reason I don't recommend the NEC for photo editing is the very slight banding problem. The glossy coating might make photo editing a little odd too. Still better than most LCDs for that purpose but if the 215TW does it better and costs cheaper then I don't see a reason to recommend the more expensive NEC for it. But I still have no idea what people are hiding about the Samsung. It probably has a problem I don't know about (nobody mentioned the bands with the NEC). My job isn't easy especially when I have to say the NEC isn't as good as another monitor for one purpose. But I take pride in being honest. I would think the S-IPS LCD2070NX is better than the 215TW for photo editing though.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
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71

kreidel

Senior member
Jan 30, 2001
611
0
0
I was at Compusa again today and the saleman I spoke with said alot of people have asked about the Samsung 225BW and whether it is a 6-Bit or a true 8-Bit. He said that their store talked with a rep for Samsung and verified it is indeed there new 8-bit panel in this monitor. Should I believe him?
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: kreidel
I was at Compusa again today and the saleman I spoke with said alot of people have asked about the Samsung 225BW and whether it is a 6-Bit or a true 8-Bit. He said that their store talked with a rep for Samsung and verified it is indeed there new 8-bit panel in this monitor. Should I believe him?

I'm not going to completely rule out the possibility of there being 8-bit TNs. I just really doubt they exist. In marketing speak, they are 8-bit because they dither to achieve that. I'll have to test one some how, some day.
 

kreidel

Senior member
Jan 30, 2001
611
0
0
I really like it but again I held off. The viewing angles arent a big issue because I sit directly in front of the monitor. But the 6-bit/8-bit thing is a concern though. I would already have bought a 2007fpw if I could physically buy it from a store so this seemed like my only other option.
 

Vuronev

Junior Member
Sep 8, 2006
16
0
0
Well, thanks to the advice of xtknight and others in this thread I went ahead and got a Dell 2007FP lcd and it seems I got a freshly made one. Sticker on the back says it was made south of the border in Aug 06. The service menu says the panel is an LPL UXGA LM201U05 so at the very least I guess I got one of the philips S-IPS ones?

So far, I can definitely say this dispaly is alot brighter than my previous Dell 2001FP. I'm not sure if the contrast is any better even though it is supposed to be 800:1 versus my old 400:1. I can't say for certain yet but in games the colors seem a bit less "warm" though that may be a result of the brightness, I havent done any adjustments to settings yet.

I love the design of the new monitor but am not quite sure if the image quality is better. Guess I'll have to play around with it more.

It's hard for me to get a real sense of comparison since I can't see them side by side and I also upgraded my vidcard from a 7900gt to 7900gtx and the latest nvidia drivers.

Any deeper info on this panel available? especially versus my old one?

Thanks!
 
Nov 15, 2005
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Originally posted by: lepump
..so would the Dell 2007WFP with an S-IPS panel be better for image editing than the S-PVA Samsung 215TW?


I'm reading that the Dell 2007wfp's are shipping with an
S-PVA and assembled in China now. I think it's crap shoot on the 2007wfp. Dell will use whatever they get a deal on that month.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: Vuronev
Well, thanks to the advice of xtknight and others in this thread I went ahead and got a Dell 2007FP lcd and it seems I got a freshly made one. Sticker on the back says it was made south of the border in Aug 06. The service menu says the panel is an LPL UXGA LM201U05 so at the very least I guess I got one of the philips S-IPS ones?

So far, I can definitely say this dispaly is alot brighter than my previous Dell 2001FP. I'm not sure if the contrast is any better even though it is supposed to be 800:1 versus my old 400:1. I can't say for certain yet but in games the colors seem a bit less "warm" though that may be a result of the brightness, I havent done any adjustments to settings yet.

I love the design of the new monitor but am not quite sure if the image quality is better. Guess I'll have to play around with it more.

It's hard for me to get a real sense of comparison since I can't see them side by side and I also upgraded my vidcard from a 7900gt to 7900gtx and the latest nvidia drivers.

Any deeper info on this panel available? especially versus my old one?

Thanks!

The LM201U05 is LG Philips LCD's latest/best 20.1" 1600x1200 8-bit S-IPS panel. It's definitely newer than what was in the old 2001FP (though by only one revision number it seems). It's not quite as good as their 20.1" widescreen S-IPS though. The 2001FP had a really low contrast and I'd be surprised if the 2007FP's wasn't a lot better. It's possible though. It's still 300 nits while the widescreen version is up to 470 nits so maybe that makes a difference.

I'll hopefully be able to review the Dell 2007FP (20.1" 1600x1200) shortly (mom is getting one at work). Work made a smart choice on an LCD (when does that happen)! I'll let you guys in on the panel I get of course, and if they let me I'll be messing around with it quite a bit.

Have you tried calibrating it with the tools on lcdresource.com?
 

ViRGE

Elite Member, Moderator Emeritus
Oct 9, 1999
31,516
167
106
Hey xtknight, have you seen the 2070WNX that Newegg is selling?
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: zeronine
Hey since this thread helped me out so much, and lead me to my decision to buy it, here is a link to a great deal on the 215tw ($299.00 after rebate) at OfficeDepot in America. I just bought it today. Any idea why they are discontinuing it. new models?

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...atid=40&threadid=1933861&enterthread=y

Holy crap, that's awesome! $200 off retail? I have no idea why they're discontinuing it though.

For whoever in this thread that was looking for an LCD <$300 with the best image quality, look no further.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: ViRGE
Hey xtknight, have you seen the 2070WNX that Newegg is selling?

Yup, but sadly I've never seen any reviews of it. It is a TN though, not an S-IPS.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
I got to check out the Dell 2007FP (20.1" 4:3). They also had an NEC LCD4610 46" LCD in the lobby at my mom's work. I gotta see that sometime. They had it off tonight though.

When I got there it was running 1024x768/74.8 Hz on VGA. Panel was: V1B11 LPL UXGA LM201U05 (S-IPS). The PC doesn't have a DVI port (boo). I used native 1600x1200 to do my testing and switched it back to 1024x768 afterwards.

The contrast was OK, but details in the blacks were disappointing (tones 0-15 were all black). That said, it's a text worker's dream monitor. Great for general usage. Very, very easy on the eyes. White was white and the black level was quite good (but like I said, darker tones were all black). Uniformity was above average. Color tracking on gradients was definitely decent (I attribute that to the 8-bit panel), but the gradient didn't seem to be lit optimally (there was a 'dark' section and a 'bright' section without much variation in the middle). I'm not saying there was banding (none of that at all), but the gradient seemed lopsided like on many LCDs. Viewing angle was near perfect (only very slight reduction in brightness at 160 degrees or so in any direction, no grayscale inversion) as I expected with such a panel.

Pictures were displayed decently. Like I said, the contrast wasn't amazing (it wasn't very bright) but not bad by any means. I don't think I'd recommend it for photo work.

Response time control was excellent. There were no signs of too much overdrive. And when I say none I mean it. That's rare with "fast" LCDs these days. The response time itself was also very reasonable. Text was almost legible when scrolling. It wasn't blazing fast, but definitely sufficient for text, movies, and maybe games.

The screen door effect was invisible to me while using this monitor.

Dell UltraSharp 2007FP

General usage/text: 5/5 (low brightness and easy on the eyes, good black level, optimal)
Photo work: 2/5 (details in the dark were absent and the gradient was lopsided, may be 3/5 after gamma calibration)
Gaming: 3/5 (I have to guess because I had no chance to actually game on it)
Scaling quality: 4/5 (definitely above average here)

Another cool thing about the 2007FP is that you can go above 60 Hz on some resolutions. Given that all they do is text work (Word, Excel, statistical analysis, etc) I think they made an awesome choice. It's hard to fault it for colors because the brightness isn't very high. That's what makes it so nice on the eyes, and the colors are quite decent given its brightness level. It did pass the image tests on my site. I just felt nothing was that vibrant.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
NEC LCD2690 pics!

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1095840

There'll be a NEC 22WMGX2 and 24WMGX2 too. Looks like one of those will be my next upgrade.

Tons of great stuff in that thread. Check it out. Here's a quote by DVL73 detailing some of the 90 series features.

As far as I can tell from the brief look, NEC 2690 does look like very nice! and as I already mentioned before, it does keep the 90 series legacy - evolved into the 26" bezel and LG-Philips LM260WU1 panel. Specifically, that legacy includes:

Quote:
ColorComp?

This uniformity compensation and correction system aims to reduce any screen uniformity errors to almost unnoticeable levels. ColorComp works by applying a digital correction to each pixel on the screen to compensate for differences in color and luminance. Each display is individually characterized during production using a fully automated system which measures hundreds of points across the screen at different gray levels. These measurements are used to build a three-dimensional correction matrix for the display screen which is then stored inside the display. This data is used to compensate for the screen uniformity, not only as a function of position on the display screen, but also as a function of gray level. If desired, the ColorComp correction can be turned off in order to maximize the screen brightness.
http://www.necdisplay.com/products/...e/colorcomp.htm

Quote:
Internal 12-bit lookup table (LUT)

A 12-bit gamma lookup table (LUT), which allows MultiSync 90 Series monitors to display 16.7 million colors out of a palette of 68.5 billion, provides for more finely detailed, high-definition rendering of color images and crisper display of even the most delicate shadings and color differences.
http://www.necdisplay.com/products/...ormance/LUT.htm

Quote:
Gamma selection

Gamma can be set by using preset values (including S-Curve and DICOM GSDF) or creating a custom setting from 0.5 to 4.0 in increments of 0.1, providing an ideal setting for video or other applications.
http://www.necdisplay.com/products/...yMgmt/gamma.htm


I always liked the thin bezel of the 90 series, and 2690 bezel does look great and for someone interested in video walls, monitor stacking or dual screens:

http://www.necdisplay.com/products/...matrix_comp.htm

... such design could help, no doubt.


If you combine all of this from the above (and that means really really great colours) with low & much more improved response time (at least I hope that overdrive is properly controlled), increased 92% of the colour, 26" screen estate and great design - you have really superb all around screen, perfectly capable for any task - ranging from gaming to critical colour work.

Also, if we are talking about price, we have to be realistic. This monitor is expensive simply because it delivers expensive technology - and that always come with the price. You are paying for the NEC brand too (and that includes great after-sales support, at least in the UK). In that sense, price bracket, especially for this model, is quite realistic imho. Yes, you may downgrade to 24" and pay less for cheaper brands (BenQ, Dell ... etc), but I think that this usually comes with the PQ consequence. On the other hand, upgrade to Dell 30" or HP 30" is possible ... but this may bring another problems (dual DVI link + enormously expensive PC to drive such monitors in native resolutions). For me, 30" is simply huge & overwhelming option for PC (desktop) usage. It's really on the TV edge.

Interestingly enough, 2690 is the first 26" size panel - it's not everyday sight and question is: "is this panel size proper middle ground between the 24" and 30"? - especially because you are still keeping the 1920x1200 resolution and that means less costs for the upgrade no particular stress to the GPU. On the other hand, I'm slightly worried that keeping the same 24" resolution and adding the 2" more will introduce the chunky pixels (and screen door) - but we can't tell for sure until first hand experience.

Well ... on the second thought - I really could ask NEC to send me one sample for early review on TFTcentral

travbomb, are there any last minute spec changes ? I guess that DFC (digital fine contrast) is not included and that would leave us with LM260WU1 - dynamic contrast. Also, is there any chance that 2690 integrated the "OverDrive Off" feature ? As I predicted, OptiClear is not option on this model. If you still have that 2690 sample with you, I guess that you are still our reliable source for such information.
 
Sep 27, 2006
37
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For someone who has a small photography business, is there an advantage in going with a CRT over an LCD in $200-250 price range? If not, can you recomend an 8-bit panel display in that price range?
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: mostlyprudent
For someone who has a small photography business, is there an advantage in going with a CRT over an LCD in $200-250 price range? If not, can you recomend an 8-bit panel display in that price range?

$200-250 LCDs just aren't suited to photo editing at all.
 
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