LCD Buyer's Guide

[niall]

Heh. Nice to have confirmation of my suspicions. I get the distinct feeling I'll have to compromise. At least the viode/photo is not professional, so it's not a Must Have - would just be a Nice If I Can Have It.

And considering I have a GeForce4 Ti4800 SE (Asus) with dual VGA/DVI output, I'm starting to wonder if there would even be any difference with something that old... Since I got all these components last year (don't ask - I'm weird ), I may have to go with a simple and cheap (but not too cheaply-made) 17" on sale somewhere even if it's analog only. And go for 20"+ on my next update round - in about 5 years. (My current monitor is CRT 17", but it's angled on my desk to fit, and ergonomically, it's starting to destroy my shoulder and neck.)

 

[raildogg]

I am considering an 20"-22" widescreen LCD on the value side. I am looking at some of the 22" widescreen LCDs now, such as the Samsung 225BW and the Acer AL2216Wbd. Does the Acer AL2216Wbd have HDCP support like the Dell 2007WFP? I am still leaning towards the Dell 2007WFP, but going to a bigger monitor is tempting.

It is at a at great price, but I cannot find any reviews of it.

 

[imported_mingus]

Originally posted by: raildogg
I am considering an 20"-22" widescreen LCD on the value side. I am looking at some of the 22" widescreen LCDs now, such as the Samsung 225BW and the Acer AL2216Wbd. Does the Acer AL2216Wbd have HDCP support like the Dell 2007WFP? I am still leaning towards the Dell 2007WFP, but going to a bigger monitor is tempting.

It is at a at great price, but I cannot find any reviews of it.

The Sceptre x22wg-Gamer 22" might be interesting.
http://www.costco.com/Browse/Productgroup.aspx?Prodid=11178163
Says on sceptre.com that it's 16.7 million colors, and 1200:1. I guess that doesn't mean much - worth looking at tho.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: niall
Heh. Nice to have confirmation of my suspicions. I get the distinct feeling I'll have to compromise. At least the viode/photo is not professional, so it's not a Must Have - would just be a Nice If I Can Have It.

Yup. I think everybody would love to have an 8-bit monitor. Who wouldn't? You don't want one so bad as to pay $1000 for it in 19" size though do you? I knew it. Well, I would if I even had that kind of money, but only because I think the monitor is the most important piece of the "PC". I doubt most people do. There are readily available 8-bit 20"+ LCDs for under $500 but there just aren't any decent 8-bit 19" ones. They want to focus on the bigger screens and not the small ones, and I can understand that. I would never go back to 19" after using a 20" widescreen, even with the latter being shorter. The resolution makes all the difference. 1280x1024 is too confined for me.

And considering I have a GeForce4 Ti4800 SE (Asus) with dual VGA/DVI output, I'm starting to wonder if there would even be any difference with something that old... Since I got all these components last year (don't ask - I'm weird ), I may have to go with a simple and cheap (but not too cheaply-made) 17" on sale somewhere even if it's analog only. And go for 20"+ on my next update round - in about 5 years. (My current monitor is CRT 17", but it's angled on my desk to fit, and ergonomically, it's starting to destroy my shoulder and neck.)

Well, how much are you willing to spend? Are you sure a 19" with DVI isn't an option or maybe even a cheap 20" with as good or better quality than the 19"? The ViewSonic VX2025WM is as low as I'd go on 20" screens but it's a decent screen aside from a few quirks (and the unfortunate DVI bug). The Acer 22" is interesting too but I'd get the LG L204WT for that price.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: raildogg
I am considering an 20"-22" widescreen LCD on the value side. I am looking at some of the 22" widescreen LCDs now, such as the Samsung 225BW and the Acer AL2216Wbd. Does the Acer AL2216Wbd have HDCP support like the Dell 2007WFP? I am still leaning towards the Dell 2007WFP, but going to a bigger monitor is tempting.

It is at a at great price, but I cannot find any reviews of it.

I'm moments away from putting the Acer 22" on the recommended LCDs list. BeHardware gave it an above average review and people in the AL2216 thread here love it. I had jiffylube1024 do some tests with his AL2216 and he reported back very satisfactory results so I wouldn't hesitate to say that it's a great value monitor. It does seem to be slower in response time than the Dell though.

I don't believe the AL2216 has HDCP support, and the European version doesn't even have DVI (licensing->price reasons).

I wouldn't get a bigger monitor just for the sake of it being bigger. I'd much rather have a fine dot pitch, so I'd get the 2007WFP anyway. The Acer does have a TN and the Dell has an S-PVA or S-IPS, depending on your unit, which are generally inevitably better.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: mingus

Originally posted by: raildogg
I am considering an 20"-22" widescreen LCD on the value side. I am looking at some of the 22" widescreen LCDs now, such as the Samsung 225BW and the Acer AL2216Wbd. Does the Acer AL2216Wbd have HDCP support like the Dell 2007WFP? I am still leaning towards the Dell 2007WFP, but going to a bigger monitor is tempting.

It is at a at great price, but I cannot find any reviews of it.

The Sceptre x22wg-Gamer 22" might be interesting.
http://www.costco.com/Browse/Productgroup.aspx?Prodid=11178163
Says on sceptre.com that it's 16.7 million colors, and 1200:1. I guess that doesn't mean much - worth looking at tho.

1200:1? I hope they're rating that on dynamic contrast because there's no way a TN today would ever reach >500:1 at once.

 

[raildogg]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: raildogg
I am considering an 20"-22" widescreen LCD on the value side. I am looking at some of the 22" widescreen LCDs now, such as the Samsung 225BW and the Acer AL2216Wbd. Does the Acer AL2216Wbd have HDCP support like the Dell 2007WFP? I am still leaning towards the Dell 2007WFP, but going to a bigger monitor is tempting.

It is at a at great price, but I cannot find any reviews of it.

I'm moments away from putting the Acer 22" on the recommended LCDs list. BeHardware gave it an above average review and people in the AL2216 thread here love it. I had jiffylube1024 do some tests with his AL2216 and he reported back very satisfactory results so I wouldn't hesitate to say that it's a great value monitor. It does seem to be slower in response time than the Dell though.

I don't believe the AL2216 has HDCP support, and the European version doesn't even have DVI (licensing->price reasons).

I wouldn't get a bigger monitor just for the sake of it being bigger. I'd much rather have a fine dot pitch, so I'd get the 2007WFP anyway. The Acer does have a TN and the Dell has an S-PVA or S-IPS, depending on your unit, which are generally inevitably better.

Thanks. I do a lot of web browing, as well as a lot of text reading and a little bit of gaming. I want as much information on my screen as possible so I can do more things. I think this is one of the reasons I want to go to a widescreen. Does the Dell 2007WFP offer the best text and web browsing out of the <$370 widescreen LCDs?

 

[eeric]

Originally posted by: raildogg

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: raildogg
I am considering an 20"-22" widescreen LCD on the value side. I am looking at some of the 22" widescreen LCDs now, such as the Samsung 225BW and the Acer AL2216Wbd. Does the Acer AL2216Wbd have HDCP support like the Dell 2007WFP? I am still leaning towards the Dell 2007WFP, but going to a bigger monitor is tempting.

It is at a at great price, but I cannot find any reviews of it.

I'm moments away from putting the Acer 22" on the recommended LCDs list. BeHardware gave it an above average review and people in the AL2216 thread here love it. I had jiffylube1024 do some tests with his AL2216 and he reported back very satisfactory results so I wouldn't hesitate to say that it's a great value monitor. It does seem to be slower in response time than the Dell though.

I don't believe the AL2216 has HDCP support, and the European version doesn't even have DVI (licensing->price reasons).

I wouldn't get a bigger monitor just for the sake of it being bigger. I'd much rather have a fine dot pitch, so I'd get the 2007WFP anyway. The Acer does have a TN and the Dell has an S-PVA or S-IPS, depending on your unit, which are generally inevitably better.

Thanks. I do a lot of web browing, as well as a lot of text reading and a little bit of gaming. I want as much information on my screen as possible so I can do more things. I think this is one of the reasons I want to go to a widescreen. Does the Dell 2007WFP offer the best text and web browsing out of the <$370 widescreen LCDs?

I was looking into all this a few weeks back (still am), but from what I can tell from all the reviews I've read, the Viewsonic VX2025WM has the best image quality for panels <$400, but unfortunately, as xtknight pointed out, it has that DVI problem which occasionally seems to cause the panel to stop working (more of an annoyance, it can be "reset" with a few simple steps as I recall reading from a forum).

Because of this, the Dell 2007WFP is probably the best bet (the height/tilt/pivot doesn't hurt either ). Horizontal for movies/games, vertical for text/programming. Good image quality, good response time. I was actually holding off to see some reviews on the Samsung 931C, but seems like its just a hyped up 6-bit panel. So when the next Dell Days of Deals comes around I'm probably picking up a 2007wfp myself (*prays for an S-IPS* lol). The only hesitance with Dell is that you never know what panel you'll get... with my luck I'll prolly end up with a TN .

 

[niall]

Originally posted by: xtknightWell, how much are you willing to spend? Are you sure a 19" with DVI isn't an option or maybe even a cheap 20" with as good or better quality than the 19"? The ViewSonic VX2025WM is as low as I'd go on 20" screens but it's a decent screen aside from a few quirks (and the unfortunate DVI bug). The Acer 22" is interesting too but I'd get the LG L204WT for that price.

Price varies a lot; I'm looking for local pickups from reputable computer stores (cheaper than the three big box stores we have), and Canadian prices are simply not comparable to anything Newegg et al carries. (And I don't trust shipping of fragile items like monitors.) But basically, ~$250 for 17", ~$325 for 19", and I'll take a long look at 20" - though some are as low as $310... whether they're any good though...

So far I've inventoried 98 models to look at, and I still have three stores to look at. It'll take a while, but I think after this I'll be able to spout specs on any brand to anyone. (Call it obsessive, but I call it the pursuit of knowledge...)

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: raildogg
Thanks. I do a lot of web browing, as well as a lot of text reading and a little bit of gaming. I want as much information on my screen as possible so I can do more things. I think this is one of the reasons I want to go to a widescreen. Does the Dell 2007WFP offer the best text and web browsing out of the <$370 widescreen LCDs?

Certainly...(and better than the ViewSonic VX2025WM on all fronts except price/speed, although the Dell is very fast). It's all about value for me. If the VX2025WM is $300 and the Dell is $375, for $75 you get a wider variety of video inputs, better color reproduction, wider viewing angles, less backlight bleeding, a less annoying OSD, and a better return policy (if ordered from Dell.com)? I'll take it.

It's the backlight bleeding that ruins the ViewSonics for me. "You don't notice it except on a black background." I don't buy that. I've owned a VP930b and the light seeps through in dark tones and washes stuff out. It is always there whether you realize it or not, and frankly I am not going to save money if that's what it entails. It really does ruin the whole thing for me. It's far more annoying than one dead pixel, slightly constrained viewing angles, or a medium/slow response time (none of which the Dell is known for anyway). At calibrated settings my ViewSonic shows three times the bleeding of my old TN Samsung 710t, and probably 10x my NEC. There's just no excuse for that. It is prevalent in nearly all of their models. Dells used to have lots of bleeding but they've gotten a lot better lately. Turning down the brightness does help but there's consequences to doing that (limited color range). The best LCD is a uniform one, regardless of sheer black level.

 

[eeric]

If you happen to be in Canada like me, you're in luck. Rumor has it Dell Days of Deals are starting on Oct. 9 -> Oct. 20 and I'm pretty sure 2007WFP will be there (the School savings days had it for $379 CAD).

Btw, anyone know what kind of panels they are putting into 2007WFP lately? Would really appreciate to know.

 

[AnotherGuy]

Does Vista require the monitor to have HDMI or HDCP in order to play HD movies?... HDDVD or Blueray ? or the monitor doesnt matter... only the vidcard does ..... ?

Pls give me an answer before i buy a non-hdcp monitor today in newegg

 

[imported_Cicero]

Vista runs with a standard monitor that doesn't HDMI or HDCP.

I'm using Vista RC2 with a Acer AL2416WD that doesn't have HD.

HTH

 

[AnotherGuy]

Ok i edited the previous message,,... And yes i amruning Vista rc1 on my crt monitor right now but I was refering to watching that DRM protected stuff in Vista..... Does it require anything on the monitor?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: AnotherGuy
Does Vista require the monitor to have HDMI or HDCP in order to play HD movies?... HDDVD or Blueray ? or the monitor doesnt matter... only the vidcard does ..... ?

Pls give me an answer before i buy a non-hdcp monitor today in newegg

HDCP is an encryption protocol that uses keys to communicate with each end of the connection. The idea is, if one if these keys is cracked, it can be blocked by all the devices. That's about all I know about the technicalities of it. It can be used over DVI or HDMI (which is just DVI with audio).

The monitor and video card/drivers are required to support HDCP (over DVI OR HDMI) to play Blu-Ray and HD-DVD movies on any operating system, including Windows Vista and Mac OS X. HDCP is NOT and will NOT be required for playing back unencrypted HD material such as the commonly available BBC HD reels. It's also not required for HDTV tuners. There are still many encryption schemes in use that do not require HDCP (i.e. MS WM DRMv1 and DRMv2) right now. Whether they will in the future is unknown, but my guess is: likely not. MPEG-2/CSS DVDs do not and will never require HDCP.

No operating system in existence today requires HDCP for common purposes such as booting up, running MS Office, or gaming. It's strictly for HDCP-encrypted media (right now Blu-Ray/HD-DVD). There may be a couple other things that require HDCP but I'm not aware of them.

I'd only worry about it if you really plan to watch movies on your PC. If not just get a HDCP-supported HDTV for the living room and a set-top-box Blu-Ray/HD-DVD player.

 

[AnotherGuy]

Originally posted by: xtknight
...
The monitor and video card/drivers are required to support HDCP (over DVI OR HDMI) to play Blu-Ray and HD-DVD movies on any operating system, including Windows Vista and Mac OS X.

SO from this I guess i should understand that the monitor is required to support HDCP in order to play those BluRay movies on my pc...
Since I only buy monitors like once in 4-5 years.... I wanted it to be the right choice.... coz yes id like it to be a general porpouse monitor ( including watchin blu ray movies or whatever)

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: AnotherGuy

Originally posted by: xtknight
...
The monitor and video card/drivers are required to support HDCP (over DVI OR HDMI) to play Blu-Ray and HD-DVD movies on any operating system, including Windows Vista and Mac OS X.

SO from this I guess i should understand that the monitor is required to support HDCP in order to play those BluRay movies on my pc...
Since I only buy monitors like once in 4-5 years.... I wanted it to be the right choice.... coz yes id like it to be a general porpouse monitor ( including watchin blu ray movies or whatever)

Yes, you need an HDCP-supported monitor for Blu-Ray or HD-DVD.

 

[AnotherGuy]

Thanks for ruining all my plans.... gotta start from ground zero now to decide which 1 to get

 

[niall]

Sorry for asking basic questions... Still learning a lot, as fast as I can...

On the Prad.de site, I've been checking specs for as many of the monitors I can find sold by local stores (despite so many sub-versions of each monitor existing, not all of them on Prad, augh); On the number of colours, obviously "16.2" means 6-bit extrapolating. But I found some that say TN, S-IPS, MVA, PVA or P-MVA panel and "16.7" or "16.70" colours; is that still extrapolation? Because I've found only one monitor with S-IPS saying "16.77" million colours; would only those be true 8-bit? Just so I can know what it all means... as much as any sane human can.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: eeric
If you happen to be in Canada like me, you're in luck. Rumor has it Dell Days of Deals are starting on Oct. 9 -> Oct. 20 and I'm pretty sure 2007WFP will be there (the School savings days had it for $379 CAD).

Btw, anyone know what kind of panels they are putting into 2007WFP lately? Would really appreciate to know.

I do know they are still switching between S-PVA and S-IPS (yup, still while I'm typing this). I believe there have been more S-PVAs recently.

If you get a good deal and end up with an S-PVA I don't think that's a reason to be disappointed. S-PVAs are actually higher contrast even if their color saturation/viewing angles aren't as good.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: niall
Sorry for asking basic questions... Still learning a lot, as fast as I can...

On the Prad.de site, I've been checking specs for as many of the monitors I can find sold by local stores (despite so many sub-versions of each monitor existing, not all of them on Prad, augh); On the number of colours, obviously "16.2" means 6-bit extrapolating. But I found some that say TN, S-IPS, MVA, PVA or P-MVA panel and "16.7" or "16.70" colours; is that still extrapolation? Because I've found only one monitor with S-IPS saying "16.77" million colours; would only those be true 8-bit? Just so I can know what it all means... as much as any sane human can.

Well 16.7M is actually 256^3 (16,777,216) so both 16.7M and 16.77M are the same thing in this sense, the first one is just rounded down.

There could still be (and often is) dithering with 16.7M or 16.77M. Some rules of thumb that apply to most LCDs: if it's 19" or under, it dithers. If it's 20" and above and it has viewing angles of 176 or 178, it's true 8-bit, or otherwise, it dithers. I can't think of any exceptions off the top of my head for the 20" rule, but there are some 8-bit 19" LCDs (just not any that are that decent).

 

[directhit]

This is from a while ago (*) but now I know I feel like reporting it because maybe somebody cares about this fact. The VP930B stand (neck and base) can be disassembled from the bottom plate (just remove the screws.) The reason I asked this was because I needed an LCD with good ergonomics and that it could be transported from place to place in a more compact way than its original box.

(*)

Originally posted by xtknight on 08/25/2006 09:36 PM

Originally posted by directhit on08/25/2006 09:31 PM

2) AFAIK, the display can be detached from the stand, but is it possible to disassemble the stand? I mean, the "neck frame" from the base plate.

I'm pretty sure you can't.

 

[kreidel]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: eeric
If you happen to be in Canada like me, you're in luck. Rumor has it Dell Days of Deals are starting on Oct. 9 -> Oct. 20 and I'm pretty sure 2007WFP will be there (the School savings days had it for $379 CAD).

Btw, anyone know what kind of panels they are putting into 2007WFP lately? Would really appreciate to know.

....I believe there have been more S-PVAs recently....

Not really, they have been using S-IPS mostly with only a very few reported S-PVA's.

 

[Aulryz]

Just some questions:

1. From digging around a few places on the web, it seems like the 2007WFP Rev. A02 is only fixed in normal mode or whatever the standard mode is (so like switching to gaming mode or whatever = crap again)?

2. If prices were equal, or at least very similar, is it better to buy the Dell 2007WFP or the Samsung 215TW? The only way I see myself pushing the monitor to its limits would be gaming (BF2, COD2, Oblivion, etc.) since I don't video/picture edit or any variant of that kind. From what I have read so far, it seems like the 215TW is near the boarderline between ghosting and non-ghosting whereas the 2007WFP is in better shape.

3. Either the 2007WFP or 215TW support HDCP? I'm just trying to future-proof since I don't buy monitors too often.

Thanks in advance .

 

[Mem]

I should meantion that the Belinea 10 20 35w(20" widescreen) is an AU-Optronics P-MVA 8 bit panel,manual states v 178 h 178 for viewing angles,worth a look if you live in Europe.

UK members can find and buy it here .