LCD Buyer's Guide

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darXoul

Senior member
Jan 15, 2004
702
0
0
Originally posted by: xtknight
Overall I think you'd love the VP2030b. I've heard good things about it.

Hey, xtknight, have you heard a user's opinion? I'm asking because after a lot of research and reading countless reviews/forum posts as well as seeing a few popular monitors in action, I pretty much decided to grab this one instead of the ultra-fast VS VX922/924, widescreen Dell 2005/2405FPW, etc.

The specs look great, a bit better in terms of brightness and response time than VP930b which seems to be THE most popular multipurpose 19 incher out there, also among gamers.

I would be VERY interested in hearing any first-hand info on the VP2030b since atm, there are no reviews available...

 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: darXoul
Originally posted by: xtknight
Overall I think you'd love the VP2030b. I've heard good things about it.

Hey, xtknight, have you heard a user's opinion? I'm asking because after a lot of research and reading countless reviews/forum posts as well as seeing a few popular monitors in action, I pretty much decided to grab this one instead of the ultra-fast VS VX922/924, widescreen Dell 2005/2405FPW, etc.

The specs look great, a bit better in terms of brightness and response time than VP930b which seems to be THE most popular multipurpose 19 incher out there, also among gamers.

I would be VERY interested in hearing any first-hand info on the VP2030b since atm, there are no reviews available...

lol...circular reference

You seemed to really like it in the other thread so that's why I said that. Sorry, I've heard nothing else about this monitor but I have about a lot of ViewSonic monitors. Some one or a couple people here loved the ViewSonic 19" widescreen LCD, and I like my VP930b. Others loved the VP191b. Some said the VX924/922 were absolutely awesome for gaming. So maybe the same is true for their 20"? The specs are so good I don't see how they could possibly screw it up. I'm going to assume it's a very good monitor.

I only have a couple gripes with my VP930b, one which I really hope will be fixed. I'm not sure if this goes with ViewSonic monitors in general or what.

The OSD is less intuitive than my old Samsung's, it's sluggish, but that's just a minor gripe.

What really pisses me off right now is I can't hook up my HDTV tuner to this monitor (VP930b). This monitor's internal scaler chip can not handle 1280x720 (HD resolution), not at all. It seems to be 'covert' about it too. No messages, just a big black screen, really annoying. My old Samsung 17" would even take the 1920x1080 (completely out of the monitor's range) and scale it to 1280x1024. Maybe Samsung is just really good while ViewSonic is average. It just seems like I'd be able to use 1280x720 without the graphics card having to scale it. My HD tuner does not have a scaler chip thus it leaves it to the monitor. Then this monitor has a scaler that doesn't support 1280x720, so I get no image. I hope the VP2030b is not like it in this area. I e-mailed ViewSonic about it and am hoping to update my monitor's firmware. Just a warning if you use any 720p VGA/DVI output devices.

But the colors are great (after they're adjusted that is, which will take a while). The 20" VP2030b uses a really similar panel (same AUO P-MVA). The response time is also great, definitely not a disappointer in this area. In some cases I can not even see the blurring.

Yeah, I went on a bit much on the VP930b, but I have a feeling the VP2030b will be very similar.
 

darXoul

Senior member
Jan 15, 2004
702
0
0
Originally posted by: xtknight

lol...circular reference

You seemed to really like it in the other thread so that's why I said that. Sorry, I've heard nothing else about this monitor but I have about a lot of ViewSonic monitors.



That's what I expected, tbh Anyway, my post wasn't based on nothing. I do have a friend who's a comp hardware retailer and he's just received info from his wholesalers on this monitor. He says he's seen one in action and when I sent my order including among other parts the VX924 gaming TN panel, he said - "hey man, I know you're a gamer but you might like the new VP2030b. It's twice as expensive at least here, in my country but you get better viewing angles, great color, 1600*1200 for your SLI and crisp gaming, too. Think about it!". I talked to him on the phone a few hours ago and he said the display was really nice for gaming - some dude demonstrated CoD2 on it. He noticed no ghosting and backlight also seemed very uniform.

If this is all true, it may be yet the best monitor for my needs, i.e. gaming (primary) + movies / Office / internet (secondary). It's a second-hand opinion though, and knowing how subjective LCD assessments are, particularly in terms of gaming performance, I just wanted to gather some more info.

Maybe I'll just take the plunge. It's not a big risk knowing ViewSonic, and I'll still have my CRT as backup. If I get it, I'll make sure to post a small review on the boards here. I know how many people are still on their quest for the Holy Grail in the compromise-ridden world of LCDs

EDIT: now it's very late here (almost 2 AM ) but tomorrow, I'll speak with my friend again and try to see the monitor myself before I buy it. It should be possible, maybe he'll put up one of them in his store for show
 

Luddite

Senior member
Nov 24, 2003
232
3
81
I would be very interested in a review of the Viewsonic VP 2030, DarXoul. That would be great. I can't find any reviews of it either, which is rather odd.

 

farp96

Member
Dec 10, 2005
172
0
0
Ok after messing around with my new vp930b this is what I have observed. Played Bf2 last night for about 3 hours. With vsync off, forget it. The ghosting and blurring and tearing is way to much for me. I find it very very hard to play and do well. If I turn vsync on with triple buffering, than its ok. I notice almost no blurring ghosting or tearing. But that comes at a price. With vsync off I get like 100 frames all the time, so slow downs what so ever. With it on, well it goes between 60 and 30 frames a second and it gets choppy at times. So for me its a mixed bag. My crt was certainly alot better than the vp930b in games. Now I have to decide weather to get used to the drop in frames rates or not. As for the desktop. At 1280x1024 I have to set the dpi of the fonts to large, because when its at standard I can't really see them that well. I actually had to wear my glasses last night when viewing the lcd, which I have never done before when using my crt. Colors I think I ned to get some good settings for that, because as it stands right now, I think my crt looked better color wise. Everything looks so washed out on the lcd. The green start button in windows xp is a nice dark green on my crt while the lcd is a faded green. Its hard to explain but the colors on my crt just seem more alive than the lcd. I also have to increase the text size when surfing the internet, because at normal size I really can't see it too well. So to sum it up, to me the only thing that a lcd has over a crt is, it takes up less deskspace and uses less power and that's about it. Now maybe I have some settings wrong I don't know but right now my crt clearly is better in almost everything. Oh and people say lcd's are better for your eyes than crt's, well I don't know but I was getting a nice headache from the lcd one which I never got with my crt. 85hz seems alot better to me than 60hz. I'm going to wait another couple of days before I decide weather to keep this lcd or not. But as it stands now, I certainly like my crt alot better.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: farp96
Ok after messing around with my new vp930b this is what I have observed. Played Bf2 last night for about 3 hours. With vsync off, forget it. The ghosting and blurring and tearing is way to much for me. I find it very very hard to play and do well. If I turn vsync on with triple buffering, than its ok. I notice almost no blurring ghosting or tearing. But that comes at a price. With vsync off I get like 100 frames all the time, so slow downs what so ever. With it on, well it goes between 60 and 30 frames a second and it gets choppy at times. So for me its a mixed bag. My crt was certainly alot better than the vp930b in games. Now I have to decide weather to get used to the drop in frames rates or not. As for the desktop. At 1280x1024 I have to set the dpi of the fonts to large, because when its at standard I can't really see them that well. I actually had to wear my glasses last night when viewing the lcd, which I have never done before when using my crt. Colors I think I ned to get some good settings for that, because as it stands right now, I think my crt looked better color wise. Everything looks so washed out on the lcd. The green start button in windows xp is a nice dark green on my crt while the lcd is a faded green. Its hard to explain but the colors on my crt just seem more alive than the lcd. I also have to increase the text size when surfing the internet, because at normal size I really can't see it too well. So to sum it up, to me the only thing that a lcd has over a crt is, it takes up less deskspace and uses less power and that's about it. Now maybe I have some settings wrong I don't know but right now my crt clearly is better in almost everything. Oh and people say lcd's are better for your eyes than crt's, well I don't know but I was getting a nice headache from the lcd one which I never got with my crt. 85hz seems alot better to me than 60hz. I'm going to wait another couple of days before I decide weather to keep this lcd or not. But as it stands now, I certainly like my crt alot better.

Ahh...

Yeah the VP930b definitely is bright. Damn right, it takes a lot of adjusting to get the colors right on this thing. My old Samsung was good (for a 6-bit) at a linear gamma. This thing at gamma 1.0 is quite washed out. I'm wondering if the Samsung 970P is any better in this regard. If the 970P was $100 cheaper I'd probably give it a try. Maybe I'll go check it out at a store some time.

This monitor (VP930b) definitely has more problems than my 17" Samsung 710T did. I'll go with Samsung in the future most likely, and I may change my recommendations. Though it's hard to say, because I personally don't know if the Samsung 970P is any better, or maybe it's worse.

I am surprised the ghosting on the VP930b bothered you though. In most cases, I can't even see it. Then again that just proves different people have different sensitivities. They focused so much on that part that they went cheap on the scaler, the OSD, and the backlight tweaking. That's where the problem lies I think.

There is also the minor issue of text. ClearType seems to induce annoying color fringing, but maybe this happens on all monitors with this huge dot pitch. I wish I could see how standard font smoothing looks on this LCD. For some reason, I can only get the ClearType option to do anything. It's probably not the LCD's fault though. ClearType does add the color fringing and you have to adjust the gamma to remove it. For black non-Cleartype text, this monitor is just fine. But do you see a white shadow around some of the black text like I do? Not sure what's going on here. It's particularly noticeable on light gray objects.

Otherwise though, the colors on this monitor are very pleasing to me after they're tweaked. It definitely displays a better range than my 710T would ever do. My 710T was washed out compared to the CRT in a lot of conditions, but man, this one can really display the colors. I'll learn to live past the inperfections of this monitor because otherwise I think it's great.

Let's just say the panel is great anyway. Certainly isn't AUO's fault here. Everything ViewSonic had control of though (including default settings and backlight leaking), for the most part, went to crap here, that is something we agree on. But, they are probably selling it at a loss so I can't blame them (I guess). It wouldn't have been that hard to put good controls, and a good input system on this monitor, it really wouldn't have been! In addition they could definitely have better default colors. The default colors are DeltaE 5, which is quite awful. After they're adjusted, they're at DeltaE 0.6, which is a lot better. Still, and like I said, the default settings lie on ViewSonic. I would definitely recommend another monitor with the same panel. I'm still convinced there's a holy grail.

I think I'm just seeing things, but do you notice the backlight very subtly fluctuate at all on your VP930b? Probably just the placebo effect after reading about what they do to reduce response time (turn off the backlight very briefly). I thought it might be related though.

Despite its vast amount of minor (IMO) flaws, I still like the VP930b from a perspective. Its simply amazing colors and furiously fast response time have won me over.

I have to say my old Samsung was nothing crappy at all though (except the 6-bit colors), definitely. What they do, they do very well, compared to ViewSonic.

Edit: hmm...wtf.. I just noticed something weird.

Do you see moving video noise (even just leaving it still) anywhere in the upper part of this image? Look very carefully and close. 1280x1024x75 Hz mode. In the topmost middle part...this shouldn't be happening in DVI.

http://xtknight.atothosting.com/Leopard.jpg
 

farp96

Member
Dec 10, 2005
172
0
0
Well after messing with the vp930b all day today, I think I'm going to go back to my crt. Games just don't do it for me on the lcd. It looks and play much better on my crt. And I don't have to wear glasses to play or see things What's really funny is I looked at my Dad's L90D+ lcd and I thought that the color and text looked better than the vp930b. Isn't the L90D+ a 6 bit panel? The colors on that looked much more alive and the text was alot more readable. Oh well that's my 4th lcd to go back. I've tried 3 others and I always go back to my crt. I'll wait until Lcd's are like 1ms across the board and when you can change from different resoltions.
 

farp96

Member
Dec 10, 2005
172
0
0
I have to say this again. I have my vp930b and my dads l90d+ hooked up side by side. And I cannot believe how much better than text looks on the l90d+. It is sooo much clearer and more visable. Yet all the settings are the same. I must be doing something wrong if a lcd that's about $300 and a 6 bit panel is looking better than a $500 lcd and an 8 bit panel....
 

Compellor

Senior member
Oct 1, 2000
889
0
0
Originally posted by: xtknight
Do you see moving video noise (even just leaving it still) anywhere in the upper part of this image? Look very carefully and close. 1280x1024x75 Hz mode. In the topmost middle part...this shouldn't be happening in DVI.

http://xtknight.atothosting.com/Leopard.jpg

No video noise here. I'm connected using DVI.

For my VP930b I run it at 60Hz since I feel it looks slightly better over 75Hz. In games I don't notice much of a difference other than more FPS when benchmarking. But when playing games I barely notice the increase so I just leave it set at 60Hz.

I find text looks better and more readable with the ClearType Tuner set to 1.4.

For gamma I have to set it down to 0.85 thru CCC to eliminate the washed out look. This goes for both the Desktop and Full Screen 3D settting. Once this is done the color really pops and is very well saturated. The game Far Cry looks stunning as does Quake 4 with all its eye candy.
 

Navid

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2004
5,053
0
0
Originally posted by: farp96
I have to say this again. I have my vp930b and my dads l90d+ hooked up side by side. And I cannot believe how much better than text looks on the l90d+. It is sooo much clearer and more visable. Yet all the settings are the same. I must be doing something wrong if a lcd that's about $300 and a 6 bit panel is looking better than a $500 lcd and an 8 bit panel....

Have you calibrated Gamma?
 

farp96

Member
Dec 10, 2005
172
0
0
Actually Xtknight helped me out quite a bit with settings and calibration. Now the Lcd looks excellent. Its alot better than before. I may keep it. I've got all day today and tommorrow to mess with it. But things are looking up.
 

darXoul

Senior member
Jan 15, 2004
702
0
0
Hey guys, I wasn't even aware but there is a new version of the ViewSonic VP213wb, namely the VP2330wb. It looks like a great monitor: 250 brightness, 800:1 contrast, MVA matrix, 8 ms gtg response time, 16 ms on-off, 23", 1920*1200 widescreen.

Looks great, doesn't it? Already the 231wb with poorer contrast and gtg response was considered as a good multipurpose monitor, also for gaming (e.g. by prad.de). This one should be even better, superior to Dell 2005FPW (which is IMHO too small anyway) and 2405FPW.
 

Scorpion

Senior member
Oct 10, 1999
748
0
0
Originally posted by: darXoul
Hey guys, I wasn't even aware but there is a new version of the ViewSonic VP213wb, namely the VP2330wb. It looks like a great monitor: 250 brightness, 800:1 contrast, MVA matrix, 8 ms gtg response time, 16 ms on-off, 23", 1920*1200 widescreen.

Awesome thread. Been reading up to this point and I'm also very intersted in the VP2030b. My 19" KDS CRT just died, and I need a new monitor quick. I'd like to perhaps get a widescreen. I do just about everything on my computer from movies, to games, to programming, wordprocessing etc... Some graphics, but I'm not looking for the best graphics color representation.

I sure would like to hear some opinions on the VP2030b if anyone has any. I'm also considering the VX924. I understand the differences between these monitors: widescreen, response time, and in the end I'm not real sure which one would be better for what I want to do. I'd like to know how the VP2030b holds up in FPS games.

 

speedlever

Senior member
Oct 27, 2000
277
0
0
Excellent work, xtknight. My 19" Samsung CRT died recently (flyback xformer - $250 repair) so I've elected to replace it with an LCD.

I would like to suggest that you add to your recommendation list a category for general home office use (web browsing, email, occasional hobbiest photo editing, MS Office apps, etc... no movies, games or professional photo editing)

It's hard to discern how important (or not) response time, etc. would be for that type of usage.

I'm inclined to go with either the 970P or the vp930b... but don't know if spending ~$500 on an LCD will really buy me anything for general home office usage.

Thanks.

Edit: Let me add that my current video card is an old Leadtek Winfast GEForce2 MX. Would I need to upgrade that as well or would it drive the LCD just fine?

 

darXoul

Senior member
Jan 15, 2004
702
0
0
Originally posted by: Scorpion

I sure would like to hear some opinions on the VP2030b if anyone has any. I'm also considering the VX924. I understand the differences between these monitors: widescreen, response time, and in the end I'm not real sure which one would be better for what I want to do. I'd like to know how the VP2030b holds up in FPS games.

Attention - VP2030b is not a widescreen monitor, it's a 1600*1200 20.1" 4:3 aspect display. The new VP2330wb is a widescreen LCD. I'll probably go for the standard monitor because of two reasons:

a) price - the VP2030b costs ca. 3,000 PLN in my country whereas the VP231wb (VP2330wb's predecessor) is priced at almost 7,000 PLN which makes it insanely expensive;

b) still relatively poor widescreen support in games - many games just stretch (I'd be able to avoid this by setting aspect to 1:1 and playing in 1600*1200 with black vertical bars), others chop off the top and bottom a bit instead of adding FoV... not really worth the price premium, I think.

 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: Scorpion
Awesome thread. Been reading up to this point and I'm also very intersted in the VP2030b. My 19" KDS CRT just died, and I need a new monitor quick. I'd like to perhaps get a widescreen. I do just about everything on my computer from movies, to games, to programming, wordprocessing etc... Some graphics, but I'm not looking for the best graphics color representation.

I sure would like to hear some opinions on the VP2030b if anyone has any. I'm also considering the VX924. I understand the differences between these monitors: widescreen, response time, and in the end I'm not real sure which one would be better for what I want to do. I'd like to know how the VP2030b holds up in FPS games.

The VP2030b will give you a wider range of color but the VX924 will hold up slightly better in gaming. I haven't heard much bad about the VX924 except backlight bleeding (seems to be the norm for ViewSonic; my VP930b has the X shape). I might recommend you go with a Samsung if you decide on 19". But it's hard to say. I have not seen the Samsung 970P in comparison--no idea how it compares to the VP930b. I had to get the VP930b because it's ~$125 cheaper. What's your budget?
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: speedlever
Excellent work, xtknight. My 19" Samsung CRT died recently (flyback xformer - $250 repair) so I've elected to replace it with an LCD.

I would like to suggest that you add to your recommendation list a category for general home office use (web browsing, email, occasional hobbiest photo editing, MS Office apps, etc... no movies, games or professional photo editing)

It's hard to discern how important (or not) response time, etc. would be for that type of usage.

I'm inclined to go with either the 970P or the vp930b... but don't know if spending ~$500 on an LCD will really buy me anything for general home office usage.

Thanks.

Edit: Let me add that my current video card is an old Leadtek Winfast GEForce2 MX. Would I need to upgrade that as well or would it drive the LCD just fine?

The 970P and VP930b are still great for general usage. Personally I think the VP930b is a bit bright, and requires a high brightness to display the whole color gamut. Too high of a brightness hurts my eyes but you'll have to see for yourself. I eventually got it at a good setting. I'll have to recommend the 970P if you plan on either though. I was very pleased with my old Samsung 17" 710T (for what it was). The colors weren't really good though, because it was indeed a 6-bit TN panel. Design was excellent.

I am happy with the VP930b as well, but be ready to adjust the colors a ton, even for general usage I'd say. At default they are washed out, which farp96 (AT user) can attest to as well. But hey, not everyone has the time to hack around and adjust the colors like I do, so just something to think about. The controls are also a tad slow and resolution versatility isn't the best (monitor will not go in to 1280x720 unless graphics card scales it; meaning you can't hook up stuff like HDTV tuners to it via VGA/DVI), nor can you fix that by updating the EDID (I've tried that). You might get backlight bleeding as well, but the pixel response and price are noticeably better than the Samsung it seems. OK...I went on a bit of a tangent there...

The 970P lacks an OSD, meaning you'll have to adjust it using one of the many direct adjustment (gfx card->i²c->monitor) programs that will interact with the monitor instead of just adjust your graphics card's outputs. Ultimately, you can only adjust the colors so much by using the graphics card (you can only map out colors with gamma, you can't adjust the backlight, etc.) Programs that will directly adjust it include: Samsung MagicTune, NVIDIA ForceWare control panel, Entech softMCCS freeware, and a Linux program also (of which the name is escaping me...)

The panel is always the first thing to consider when evaluating an LCD IMO. Both the 970P and the VP930b feature VA panels--meaning less viewing angle distortion and better colors than their TN counterparts (such as Samsung 940b and VX924). They also have a higher price though. So that's ultimately up to you. I'd recommend either the Samsung 940b or 970P, depending how much you can pay, the higher being better. The VP930b/970P are actually sped-up VA panels, which will also drive up their price. There are some VA panels that are cheaper (and still have good colors/viewing angle) but their response time could be absolutely atrocious, I haven't seen them. (Afterthought: Actually it looks like Samsung may have eliminated such models in their digital department, wow. The only one available is the 920T, which is just as expensive as the 970P but has a worse response. Not sure about 940MW, it's not much cheaper either.) I'd recommend getting the 970P if you can. If it's anything like my experience going from a TN to a VA panel, I think it'll be worth it for you. Even being a casual photo editor, you want decent colors.

One thing...19" LCDs are huge (to me anyway). :Q You'll be getting ~1.5in. more viewable image on your 19" LCD than you will be on your 19" CRT.

Hmmm...about the old video card: I'm not 100% sure. I don't think older ones have any LCD scaling built-in to them. So it's up to the monitor to the scaling. The monitor should be able to support general modes like 640x480, 800x600, 1024x768, 1280x960, 1280x1024 on its own. But you may want to upgrade to a new card so you can get a DVI out (if that card doens't have one). I think it would be worth it as you can also get more resolution versatility when the card does the scaling.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: farp96
xtknight are you going to keep your vp930b or return it?

Going to keep it. It is still a good monitor. Great colors (after adjustment), viewing angle, and stunningly fast response. It still annoys me I cannot watch 720p/1080i HDTV on it like I could on my old Samsung 17". Oh well, 480p is fine.
 

speedlever

Senior member
Oct 27, 2000
277
0
0
xtknight,

Thanks very much for your comments. I'm sorta partial to the Sammy... then again my 19"er was barely 5 years old before it died... and it was behind a UPS its whole life. (900nf)

New LCD plus new video card... and one of my HDs recently died... looks like I'm gonna have to spend some cash on the ol' computer.

 

oxid

Junior Member
Dec 20, 2005
20
0
0
what happened to the link to the site where you could look up your LCD panel type?
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: speedlever
xtknight,

Thanks very much for your comments. I'm sorta partial to the Sammy... then again my 19"er was barely 5 years old before it died... and it was behind a UPS its whole life. (900nf)

New LCD plus new video card... and one of my HDs recently died... looks like I'm gonna have to spend some cash on the ol' computer.

5 years is good for a CRT I'd say. None of mine have ever lasted that long. eMachines 17" o no I didn't buy an eMachines PC...the thing was $99) lasted 2 years before some connector got disconnected (my dad fixed that). The cathode ray tube itself went bad in one of the KDS 17" CRTs I had, and the electronics went bad in the other. So 1 CRT completely died (enclosure full of bad tube+bad electronics ), 1 was fixed easily, and the other took some time to fix. (Then I turned on the one with the bad tube+bad electronics thinking it was my old CRT and hearing a loud buzzing noise, but that's a whole 'nother story. )

I don't think you need to spend more than $50 on the video card to get a modern DVI one if you don't game at all.
 
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