LCD Buyer's Guide

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: oxid
what happened to the link to the site where you could look up your LCD panel type?

Oops, I forgot I had removed that when I updated the main page. Here is the old section for now. I did also remove the weird numbering recommendations system because I thought it was worthless. Edit: original post updated.

Well this is great, but how do you tell which kind of panel an LCD is, you ask? Well there are a number of helpful resources. I prefer the following:

[*]Flatpanels.dk English Panel Search
[*]Prad.de
[*]Google (search with model and "Samsung panel" or "AUO panel" or "CMO panel" or "LG panel", "Hitachi panel", etc. without the quotes)

Or feel free to ask in this very thread. There are a number of tip-offs as well, like 178/178 viewing angle almost always being an VA/IPS panel. Beware however that, though rare, some LCDs of the same model may use a drastically different panel! One of the Dell UltraSharp monitors did this, but I'd think they had settled on the decent panel by now.

Also, speedlever, I think I will add in a general usage LCD section. If you decide on the 970P let us know how you like it, or if you've seen it in a store, let us know what you thought of it!

 

[xtknight]

speedlever: I think the Samsung would be better also because it has sharpness control (even on DVI) unlike the ViewSonic VP930b. My old Samsung 17" 170T LCD did at least, and I assume the 970P will as well. The text is just a tad crude on the VP930b for ClearType, but it would only annoy people like me probably. But even if it doesn't have sharpness control the 970P is still a better choice for general usage in my mind, IF you can afford it.

 

[oxid]

thanks

 

[speedlever]

5 years doesn't sound like a long time to me. TVs normally last a looooooooot longer than that. IAC, I'm sorta glad to get that 65lb behemoth outta the home ofc.

Whether or not I can afford the 970p is not so much the issue to me. I just wanna know that in my usage I'll benefit from the 970p's superior specs. ;-)

(ie, why pay for a Ferrari if a Toyota gets me there just as comfy)

w/r/t video cards, earlier posts in another forum here recommended something like a reconditioned 9800Pro. I'll hafta check and see if that offers DVI output. Glad I didn't already buy a video card before the CRT died!

 

[Luddite]

I noticed reading through the various reviews on the BeHardware site that they feel the S-IPS panels are on their way out. With better color fidelity being acheived, the S-PVA and P-MVA panels are poised to replace them as graphics monitors. This is certainly true at Eizo, who have recently released their new line-up with S-PVA panels [samsung LTM 210M2 and LTM 240M1, according to www.flatpanels.dk). Color fidelity and spectrum are just as good or better than S-IPS panels, according to the BeHardware reviews of them. Though BeHardware doesn't recommend them for games and movies (despite the fact that it's exactly how Eizo pitches their new models--as mainly all purpose gaming and entertainment monitors).

Also, something maybe for the guide, LG Philips is not the only manufacturer of S-IPS panels. Eizo's high end graphics monitors are made with both Sharp and Hitatchi S-IPS panels.

 

[harobikes333]

Originally posted by: xtknight
harobikes333:

Well with only 300 I'd say the Samsung 740b for 17".

Thanks for the reply! I looked around and newegg has it for 236+12shipping but it was out of stock....:

I'm just wondering, how much more would I need to spend to get a 19in LCD monitor.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: harobikes333

Originally posted by: xtknight
harobikes333:

Well with only 300 I'd say the Samsung 740b for 17".

Thanks for the reply! I looked around and newegg has it for 236+12shipping but it was out of stock....:

I'm just wondering, how much more would I need to spend to get a 19in LCD monitor.

Around $350. Cheapest is ViewSonic VX924 I think.

 

[harobikes333]

Is that an ok monitor for 350...? I'm just wanting a good monitor so that my parents don't have to buy a new LCD if the one I buy is junk>_<

 

[xtknight]

Yes, the VX924 is comparable to the Samsung 740b. Same TN panel. It should be great for gaming, and the colors should be fine.

 

[harobikes333]

So for 50 bucks more I can get a 2 more in. !? Also Looking at stores and all the different prices... what store do you suggest I buy it from..

 

[xtknight]

Newegg is awesome. Both of my LCDs (Samsung 710T and ViewSonic VP930b) came from Newegg, and both arrived with no dead pixels. First LCD came via Fedex Express and second came UPS 3-day. Yup 2" for $50.

 

[harobikes333]

Thanks for all these fast replies!

I'm just wondering because newegg with shipping is 364 and zzf is 360 with free shipping lol:

Where I'm getting the prices

And chiefvalue has it for 348..

I need your help.

 

[xtknight]

Go with Newegg IMO.

 

[harobikes333]

alrighty since you know what you're talking about I'll go with newegg thanks for the help! (now onto find a good mobo for my 3800 X2...and find a good case...)

 

[farp96]

Well after much debate I've decided to go back to my CRT. Not so much for desktop use but for games. The Viewsonic was better on general use things like internet, word processing etc. but for games it just couldn't hold up to my CRT. After playing Bf2 side by side with both the CRT and LCD the CRT looked better played smoother and just basicly kicked the crap out of the LCD at games. Yes I know people that have LCD's don't notice blurring or ghosting. Maybe I have eagle eyes or something but I noticed blurring and ghosting and I just can't get used to it. My CRt has someting like .5 response time across the board their's not one LCD that can come even close to that. Anyway to each his own. I'm going to wait a year or so until some newer LCD's come out and see how they do.

 

[Ricky Ricardo]

Originally posted by: Luddite
I noticed reading through the various reviews on the BeHardware site that they feel the S-IPS panels are on their way out. With better color fidelity being acheived, the S-PVA and P-MVA panels are poised to replace them as graphics monitors.

I'm also finding this to be true in my search for an S-IPS panel. I'm starting to look at the S-PVA & P-MVA panels. How important is response time using an 19" P-MVA/S-PVA panel for viewing DVDs?

 

[Luddite]

Ricky, you beat me to that question. I was just looking again at my CRT at 1600 X 1200 resolution and how rather small the text is at that size. If an LCD has problems scaling anything other than its native resolution, then I don't know whether I should go with a 20".

Until better LCD technology comes along, maybe I will need a two-monitor solution. One smaller one (say 17" or 19") for general everyday use (office, internet, movies, streaming video, games etc. ), and a larger one > 20"+ for photo editing.

So, like you, I wonder how important response time is for a 19 " LCD for viewing streaming videos and DVDs? It obviously doesn't matter for office apps.

 

[xtknight]

Any TN or Overdrive VA/IPS panel should be fine for DVD viewing/TV watching/streaming video. Games are where ghosting is most evident.

 

[Scorpion]

darXoul, xtknight: thanks for the help guys.

Alright guys. I'm taking the plunge. This is my first LCD monitor experience and I've decided to go with the relatively unknown Viewsonic VP2030b. I'll post back here after I get it and let you know what I think.

I'm an LCD newbie, and currently I don't have the greatest computer, but that's soon to change. I was just forced to get a new monitor a little earlier than I anticipated. I've got a GeForce4 Ti4600 graphics card, so definatly a bit old. If there's any tips or recommendations that you all would offer to help me properly "assess" or "test" this thing when I get it, things that you all would like to know, I'd appreciate any advice.

Hopefully once I get my new machine with brand new everything, I can come back and really give you a good idea of what this thing can do.

Wish me luck! I'm nervous about whether I made the right choice or not.

 

[darXoul]

I hope you made the right choice because if you did not, I'll probably stick with my "old|" Philips Brilliance 109P4 CRT. Coming straight from the HQ CRT world and being a gamer who plays some real fast games online like Q3 with ProMode installed, I'll be probably pretty sensitive to ghosting and motion blur. Still, unless my RG hit rate suddenly drops because of that, I'm willing to get used to slight blurring in super fast games rather than to accept the compromises connected with TN panels VX922/924, i.e. poor vertical viewing angle, no height adjustment (I don't really need pivot) and 6-bit dithered color.

I would take the plunge as well but something else is holding me back (and I want to upgrade everything at once to get a nicer discount from my retailer) - namely the 7800 GT SLI vs. G71 dilemma because of which I'll probably end up waiting for the new GPU, mainly for reduced noise and most likely better performance @ similar or lower price compared to GT SLI.

Anyway, good luck with the VP2030b, man. I really really hope for us both it's an excellent panel, as stated at the first glance by my retailer dude Color and viewing angles will be fine for sure, even if you need some tweaking. I'm not too afraid of bad pixels and interpolation either. Just the goddamn blurriness and/or ghosting in games are the bitter pills I hope I'll be able to swallow.

Scorpion, I hope you'll be upgrading soon cause I just can't wait to hear from you about your VP2030b

 

[xtknight]

darXoul: I also played Q3/CPMA mod. Ghosting on my old TN did not bother me in the least. You're far too focused on railing some bastard than some miniscule 1/2 pixel wide blurring on the edges of things. Battlefield 2 is where it stuck out the most, but Quake 3 and Wolfenstein? About nothing...

Fast-paced games like promode just won't be affected that much by it. What it does affect is slowly turning around in-game. Sometimes you can see it when you pan across a scene as well. However, Overdrive seems to maintain contrast better in transition so it is less bothersome even-so than a regular TN monitor.

Edit: just tried it on this VP930b. Still nothing... less than my TN.

 

[darXoul]

Good to hear (read ) this! I'm very focused in CPMA, and I really don't give a crap about graphics as such. In my cfg, I have everything simplified / turned off (huge picmip so virtually no textures, no smoke, no shot marks on walls, vertex lighting, etc.)... and, as we say here, eye-f*cking green enemy bots of course

The VP2030b with its slightly better on-off response time than VP930b is starting to look more and more appealing. Now, let's just wait for the report from Scorpion.

 

[Scorpion]

Ahhhh! I suddenly feel like a 5 year old waiting for Christmas, or Veruca Salt. "I want it now!"

 

[farp96]

darxoul just remember when you go LCD you have to use Vsync that's a must, so if you have a fast system your frames will drop to 75 or 60 depending on what resolution you run at. When I ran fraps using my crt I was getting 100 plus frames a second with BF2, with the LCD it would be 75 max and sometimes dip to 40 or so. And even with vsync on, I still noticed blurring. So if your sensitive to that, then I bet you'll notice it on a lcd. I tried to get used to it, just couldn't do it. The crt was leaps and bounds better than an lcd at gaming. It will probably be at least a year or two before I look at lcd's again. Lcd's users point out two things when using an lcd over a crt, space and power. Now I for one could careless how much space a monitor takes up, and as for power an Lcd would probably save you about $20 a year over a crt, again that's nothing in my book. At 85hz on my crt I notice no flicker what so ever. I can play Bf2 for 4 or 5 hours without any problem. And of course if you have a slow system, go luck at trying to run the lastest games at the native resolution of 1280x1024, and if you try to go any lower it look like crap out of its native resolution, the lcd that is. I mean if they made crt the same size as lcd's, what would you buy, a crt flat panel or an lcd flat panel? I'll wait for those SED monitors But to each his own

 

[wpeng]

I have a question and a comment.

1. A while back, I bought a 6-bit Princeton LCD previously and returned it for various reasons. In games, however, the colors were extremely vibrant and looked magnificent. I have since purchased the 19" Ultrasharp and 20" widescreen Dell monitors and now a Sceptre 19" and none of them looked as good in games as that Princeton LCD although they were probably more accurate. What settings would you use for "vibrant" colors rather than accurate colors?

2. I would just like to say that if 6-bit bothers anyone, then don't hesitate to buy Sceptre. I recently purchased the 19" Sceptre Naga IV, and the monitor is extremely nice. I emailed Sceptre and it is confirmed that this is an 8-bit panel (actually, they wouldn't tell me, but said "it's not a 6-bit panel.") The greatest part about it is it doesn't have an 8-bit price tag: $330 shipped from Costco (not sure they have it anymore though).

--This first thing I did was to play games on this thing, and there is minimal ghosting (I can see ghosting in almost any LCD but tolerate anything under TN 12 ms).
--Viewing angles are extremely nice and color doesn't wash out at large angles.
--Out of the box, colors are a bit bland and a little washed out. I used Adobe Gamma and now they are fine.
--Quality control may be a bit iffy. I have 3 stuck pixels that can only be seen on a black screen. Backlight bleeding is evident in two corners but is not as severe as with the Dell 2005fpw.
--Contrast is very nice. Much blacker blacks than any LCD I have ever owned. The specs say 1000:1. I wouldn't doubt it.

I don't really have time for a full review, but that's what I've got. There's been a lot of reviews of already popular monitors, so I thought I'd throw in something for people with smaller pocketbooks.