LCD Buyer's Guide

[xtknight]

Wait a minute...the LG L1970H-BF is one of the new LGs with the high contrast. Go for that one!

It should be great for gaming if the response time rating is any indication. Viewing angles tell me it's a TN panel, reaffirming that it should be good for gaming.

Details about the high-contrast method based on a similar LG model:

Originally posted by: Rasmus Larsen {flatpanels.dk Forum}
The review is online now: http://www.flatpanels.dk/l1770h.php

I'm sure it's hard for you to decipher it so I'll summarize the comments about the contrast ratio and DFC. First of all check this video out: http://www.flatpanels.dk/billeder/l1770h_vid1.wmv

It shows how the DFC dynamically changes according to the image on the screen. The backlight is reduced when the mouse is out of the frame. When I move the mouse back the white cursor is recognized and some algorithm must decide to intensify the backlight.

Without DFC I measured the contrast ratio to be 172/0.3 = 573:1. Black dot 0.3 cd/m2

With DFC: 172/0.1 = 1720:1. Black dot 0.1 cd/m2.

The method has potential but it's not perfect yet. If the manufacturers could use LEDs together with this kind of technology we could see interesting results as the backlight could be controlled in sections.

 

[sokos]

any idea what film the LG1970H-BF has?
and if it has high contrast won't that be tiring for the eyes of the players? I need displays that will be "gentle" to the eyes. Keep in mind that the netcafe's are almost completely dark inside.

Now since I m getting my hands on the BenQ and if I like it, it seems I ll have to decide between BenQ and the new LG.
The BenQ is about 50-60 euros cheaper than the LG. What would you do considering we talk for 50 units here?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: sokos
any idea what film the LG1970H-BF has?
and if it has high contrast won't that be tiring for the eyes of the players? I need displays that will be "gentle" to the eyes. Keep in mind that the netcafe's are almost completely dark inside.

Now since I m getting my hands on the BenQ and if I like it, it seems I ll have to decide between BenQ and the new LG.
The BenQ is about 50-60 euros cheaper than the LG. What would you do considering we talk for 50 units here?

I would not think it would be harder on the eyes. Even though the room is completely dark, the brightness of the backlight is the same as it would be with the other LCDs, as far as I know. It is just that it uses an algorithm to evaluate the image and actually lower the backlight with a darker image. So based on that one might think it would be easier on the eyes. But again I am not 100% sure of the algorithm.

I would still go with the LG, even if it was $100 more. I think the contrast adjustment makes a huge difference. In any case, judging from the video it looks like this contrast adjustment is quite mild, so I don't think it will be harder on the eyes at all.

Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean by what film it has. It may (and probably does) have a polarizing film to distribute the backlight better and make viewing angles better. I'm not sure if those have the 'contrast coating' (OptiClear, etc). For the LG L1970H-BF, contrast algorithm yes, but coating, my guess is no.

I am not sure of the exact model of the TFT panel that's inside any of those. But to me they all definitely look like they are "TN" type panels.

 

[sokos]

First of all thanks for your valuable assistance.
By saying film i mean panel

hmm.. now I m in a big dilemma..
I ll get back to you later today with my experience with the BenQ.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: sokos
First of all thanks for your valuable assistance.
By saying film i mean panel

hmm.. now I m in a big dilemma..
I ll get back to you later today with my experience with the BenQ.

I'm sure the BenQ is really just fine for gaming too. But the high-contrast monitors are brand new and are probably better. If money doesn't allow for the new LG L1970H-BF then the BenQs are probably great for gaming, from the reviews I've seen.

Here is what the flatpanels.dk "Panel Search" has to say about those (or similar) monitors:

LG L1970H has a 19 inch 8 ms TN panel.
Philips 190X6FB has a 19 inch 8 ms TN panel.
LG L1932P has a 19 inch 4 ms (g2g) TN panel.

But again I'd avoid the LG L1932P though because of that "4 ms" response time. Typically those monitors have the aggravated overdrive problems.

If you could report your thoughts on any of the monitors you get (and if they have the scrolling text problem), we'd be grateful.

 

[darXoul]

http://www.hardware.fr/articles/619-1/c...ratif-8-lcd-20-pouces-5-6-8-16-ms.html

8 new 20" LCDs compared:

Acer AL2051W
Belinea 10 20 30W
BenQ FP202W
Nec MultiSync 20WGX²
Nec MultiSync LCD2090UXi
Samsung SyncMaster 204B
ViewSonic VX2025wm
ViewSonic VP2030b

 

[xtknight]

Thanks for the link. Well based on lots of reviews (both user and pro) and the lesnumeriques pictures, I'm confident in saying the VX2025wm is a close second behind the NEC MultiSync 20WGX2 for $400!

Things are looking up for ViewSonic. They seem to be being more honest with their specifications now (well, hey, at least the VX2025wm isn't "2 ms") and they're selling awesome monitors (VP930b, VX922, and VX2025wm) for practically bargain-bin prices. From what I've read the VX922 is a huge improvement over the VX924.

 

[sokos]

Ok xtk, I just finished testing and comparing the BenQ FP91G+.
It's a sure winner

I ve connected both the BenQ and the Viewsonic via DVI cables on my 7900GT and the difference is dramatic.
The problem with scrolling windows or text doesnt exist on the Benq, as well as the colors look warmer on the BenQ.
I ve been playing with settings on both screens, i can't get the VP920 to have as nice colors as the FP91G+.
My friend here mentions (coz 4 eyes are better than 2) that:
VP920 seems to have excessive contrast and the pixels seem to be out of phase, and that orange trail of fonts when you move windows, seems so annoying!

Then I ve running 3DMark2006 simultaneously by using the Clone option at the Gforce drivers and BenQ seems much nicer due to colors but movement is nice on both displays.
Do you think I should give a shot at the new LG baby?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: sokos
Do you think I should give a shot at the new LG baby?

Yeah...I think the LG would probably be even better than the BenQ. LG L1970H-BF that is. Thanks for the review!

 

[sokos]

you are welcome, besides sharing information is the way to knowledge and that's what the forums are for
LG will be too pricey.. 50e difference x 50 pieces =2500e
What better will it have to offer for the customers from the BenQ.. is this extra money worth ?
We are already over budget with the 7900GT's

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: sokos
you are welcome, besides sharing information is the way to knowledge and that's what the forums are for
LG will be too pricey.. 50e difference x 50 pieces =2500e
What better will it have to offer for the customers from the BenQ.. is this extra money worth ?
We are already over budget with the 7900GT's

OK, it's probably not worth going in debt to get it. The BenQ is probably one of the best gaming LCDs.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: darXoul
http://www.hardware.fr/articles/619-1/c...ratif-8-lcd-20-pouces-5-6-8-16-ms.html

8 new 20" LCDs compared:

Acer AL2051W
Belinea 10 20 30W
BenQ FP202W
Nec MultiSync 20WGX²
Nec MultiSync LCD2090UXi
Samsung SyncMaster 204B
ViewSonic VX2025wm
ViewSonic VP2030b

What does it say my smart freind?

 

[n7]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: xtknight
Here's some NEC 20WMGX2 pics :Q : http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1043429

Pwnage!!! That's exactly how it looks in RL!

I wish I could take pics like this so I could show you guys how strong 20WMGX is over my Dells and 2070 CRT.

Oh man that looks incredible.

Makes my Samsung look like a POS...

Damnit, NEC please give us a 23" 1920x1200 version of that

 

[samduhman]

Any opinions on the Samsung 204b?

I've been looking for a couple weeks now and Im hopefully coming down to a final decision soon. I went to Microcenter today and looked at the VX924 (did'nt have the VX922), VX2025VW and 90GX2. I didn't like the 90GX2 because of the terrible glare. It had a sharp picture and would be great in my room but taking it to my monthly lan party where there is considerable lighting would be a problem. Plus it was pretty expensive for a 19". The VX2025WMs letters had a blueish/purple haze to them and they weren't very sharp. Im assuming it was a settings issue?? So the VX924 won me over on that trip.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: samduhman

Any opinions on the Samsung 204b?

I've been looking for a couple weeks now and Im hopefully coming down to a final decision soon. I went to Microcenter today and looked at the VX924 (did'nt have the VX922), VX2025VW and 90GX2. I didn't like the 90GX2 because of the terrible glare. It had a sharp picture and would be great in my room but taking it to my monthly lan party where there is considerable lighting would be a problem. Plus it was pretty expensive for a 19". The VX2025WMs letters had a blueish/purple haze to them and they weren't very sharp. Im assuming it was a settings issue?? So the VX924 won me over on that trip.

The Samsung 204B is alright, but I'd think the VX2025WM would be a lot better. The text problem on the VX2025WM was probably due to misconfiguration of ClearType. The VX922 is quite a bit better than the VX924 in a couple aspects, response time and better black level, AFAIK.

 

[xtknight]

Yet more 20WMGX2 pics at middle of this thread: http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/fo...208&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=550

(Put on your Depends before clicking.)

 

[xtknight]

The Samsung 215TW is something to keep your eyes open for...I'm going to see if I can get some information on it from flatpanels.dk English forums. Anyone know Danish?

 

[WaTaGuMp]

Originally posted by: xtknight
The Samsung 215TW is something to keep your eyes open for...I'm going to see if I can get some information on it from flatpanels.dk English forums. Anyone know Danish?

I think I am the only one to have one in the whole world

 

[firewall]

Viewsonic VA712. Nice LCD with 8ms response time. No problems till yet. Gaming is OK (NFSMW).

 

[samduhman]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: samduhman

Any opinions on the Samsung 204b?

I've been looking for a couple weeks now and Im hopefully coming down to a final decision soon. I went to Microcenter today and looked at the VX924 (did'nt have the VX922), VX2025VW and 90GX2. I didn't like the 90GX2 because of the terrible glare. It had a sharp picture and would be great in my room but taking it to my monthly lan party where there is considerable lighting would be a problem. Plus it was pretty expensive for a 19". The VX2025WMs letters had a blueish/purple haze to them and they weren't very sharp. Im assuming it was a settings issue?? So the VX924 won me over on that trip.

The Samsung 204B is alright, but I'd think the VX2025WM would be a lot better. The text problem on the VX2025WM was probably due to misconfiguration of ClearType. The VX922 is quite a bit better than the VX924 in a couple aspects, response time and better black level, AFAIK.

Oh ya, sorry I didn't make it clear. I'd definately go with the VX922 over the VX924 if I go that way.

Has it been pretty much confirmed that the VX2025WM is ghost free in FPSers?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: samduhman
Oh ya, sorry I didn't make it clear. I'd definately go with the VX922 over the VX924 if I go that way.

Has it been pretty much confirmed that the VX2025WM is ghost free in FPSers?

Yep, it's on par with the 20WMGX2 from what I can tell.

Reviews:
BitTech
hardware.fr (translated) (this review will appear on BeHardware.com in a better translation in a couple days)
lesnumeriques.com (translated)
20WMGX2 vs. VX2025WM (select under "Etape 3" for more comparisons)
widescreengamingforum.com (HoodooGuru)
HardForum (Coldtronius)
prad.de Forum (translated)

 

[Dethfrumbelo]

On that French site with the visual comparisons, the 20WMGX2 has slightly less ghosting going on during motion, very small difference though. I also noticed that the VX2025 appears to be brighter and slightly faded at wider viewing angles, while the 20WMGX2 seems a touch darker at wider angles, but less faded than the VX2025. Maybe that's due to the coating. The 20WMGX2 has the most CRT-like appearance I've seen for an LCD in terms of not being grainy. It looks cleaner and darker.

In the midrange, the VX2025 is probably the best WS LCD out there. I still have 6 weeks or so before I make my decision, but if I had to buy an LCD right now, it would be between these two. The only question is whether or not the added quality of the 20WMGX2 is worth the extra $300-$400.

 

[Luddite]

Originally posted by: xtknight
The Samsung 215TW is something to keep your eyes open for...I'm going to see if I can get some information on it from flatpanels.dk English forums. Anyone know Danish?

flatpanels lists it as a S-PVA panel

Here is a user review for the 215TW

another one with feedback

website listing

Also, there is an Anandtech forum member with the handle 'Tweakin' who has the Samsung 215TW listed in his rig sig.

Maybe try and bring up the 215TW in the English forum at flatpanels.dk. I could maybe ask my mom to translate , as that level of discussion is a bit beyond my weak Danish abilities.

 

[WaTaGuMp]

Originally posted by: Luddite

Originally posted by: xtknight
The Samsung 215TW is something to keep your eyes open for...I'm going to see if I can get some information on it from flatpanels.dk English forums. Anyone know Danish?

flatpanels lists it as a S-PVA panel

Here is a user review for the 215TW

another one with feedback

website listing

Also, there is an Anandtech forum member with the handle 'Tweakin' who has the Samsung 215TW listed in his rig sig.

Maybe try and bring up the 215TW in the English forum at flatpanels.dk. I could maybe ask my mom to translate , as that level of discussion is a bit beyond my weak Danish abilities.

They are correct about the bleeding being in the 4 corners, BUT its easily made so its not even noticeable when gaming. The only time I see it is when my screensaver is on. Turning the brightness down helps the the bleeding alot it seems.

 

[samduhman]

Just did something crazy after looking at the VX924, VX2025, 90gx2 yesterday and weeks of researching lcds. I ran out and bought Samsung 215TW at Office Depot today on a crazy impulse! First and formost Im a hardcore gamer and one of the crt holdouts so ghosting is my biggest concern.

I've had it hooked up for about 30mins. I've ran dead pixel buddy, looked for backlight bleeding and played a few minutes of BF2 an UT2004. I really don't know what Im doing or how to properly set this thing up. So here are my quick initial observations.

- NO DEAD PIXELS
- NO BACKLIGHT BLEEDING. That I can tell anyway not sure if theres a sure fire way to test for it. I've looked closely for it as I booted my pc and as I've used it. I don't see any at all.
- AWESOME PICTURE and this is after looking at 30+ displays yesterday. Once I was able to get it to run in its native resolution of 1650x1000 (or whatever it is). The first couple times of messing with display properties it wouldn't even give that option. I don't know what I did but its available now.
- sitting on my desk it just looks gooooood Kind of wanted the silver to match my case but the black comes across as pretty formidable. I like it. It feels pretty sturdy. This being my first lcd I have nothing to compare to.
- it has connections I wasn't even looking for svga, component video. Not sure how to get the built in speakers to work. Not planning on it since I have surround sound but I'd at least like to make sure they work.

My concerns.

Ghosting. Playing BF2 and UT2004 of course Im looking like a hawk to see if I notice it. Im not sure!? I may be acting to anal and confusing the frantic action (UT2004) of spinning around and the walls blurring by as ghosting. The only way I guess I can tell for sure is to hook up my 19" Samsung crt and see if I notice the same thing.

BF2 sharpness. I did a executable hack in the startup line of BF2 and it looks like it worked fine. However the game just doens't look sharp. Theres a lot of ruff edges. Im not sure if this is just a configuration issue or if this is the best it gets. The video options show 1024x768 with everything turn all the way up. Im assuming the startup line overrides the 1024x768 but what about the eye candy?

Well thats it. As of this moment I absolutely love the display but have some concerns about ghosting and BF2 graphics quality.

If anyone can assist with how to set this up properly it would be great.