LCD Buyer's Guide

[RenaissanceMan]

Originally posted by: videogames101
I was thinking. Say I have a monitor with a 8 ms response time, and lets say I'm playing BF2 and I'm pulling 50 fps. Now, 50 fps means every 2 ms there is a new frame. Is that correct? If so, how could a 8 ms response time monitor possibly show a frame every 2 ms? The way I see it, a 8 ms response time would only let you see 12.5 fps. Am I missing something here????

1/50=.02 seconds=20*10^-3 seconds=20 ms

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: progressiveMOJO
someone mentioned issues with widescreen resolutions causing 100% cpu/memory usage for no good reason with some video chipsets, which is why I mention it.

How well does the NEC monitor handle non-native/non-widescreen resolutions displayed with black bands around the edges? For instance, if I told it to run 1280x1024 with bands around the sides, is it going to have a heart attack the way I've heard of some widescreens doing?

I guess, for a dorm setting, the NEC monitor is probably great because of all the inputs and the built-in tuner. Eliminates the need for a TV, which saves space, etc.

If there are any other monitors that I've overlooked, or if you think I should give the Samsumg 214T a look anyway, let me know. And between the VX2025 and the VP2030b, which would you recommend (in case I decide the NEC is too pricey)?

The NEC should be among the top for resolution scaling considering its price. I'd just go with the VX2025 if the NEC isn't an option.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: videogames101
I was thinking. Say I have a monitor with a 8 ms response time, and lets say I'm playing BF2 and I'm pulling 50 fps. Now, 50 fps means every 2 ms there is a new frame. Is that correct? If so, how could a 8 ms response time monitor possibly show a frame every 2 ms? The way I see it, a 8 ms response time would only let you see 12.5 fps. Am I missing something here????

8 ms lets you see 125.0 FPS. They still can't really be compared. 8 ms is the time it takes for the crystal to complete its transition. If it can't do it in time, I assume it just tries to go to the next frame as fast as possible.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Manoletez
I have a vx2025wm, and i think that this monitor kill my eyes for text reading.
Should i buy a 215TW instead of vx2025wm? Also, how does affect 215TW's input lag to mouse movement?

I doubt the 215TW would be much better. Give the Samsung 204B a try, which is a lower-brightness TN screen. You can always turn down the brightness/contrast while text-reading as well.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: RenaissanceMan
Hi, I'm looking for a LCD (preferably cheap, but I don't mind paying more if it's worth it) purely for reading. I have a 21" CRT for gaming/movies but I find it hard reading on any CRT for any significant time period.

The Samsung 214T (21"), Samsung 204B (20.1"), ViewSonic VP2030b (20.1"), and ViewSonic VP2130b (21") should be good for reading. Nearly any LCD will be great as long as you're just reading.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: JETninja
Hey Guys!

Have read all through this thread over the past couple months (And forget most of it! LOL!)

I need to replace my Teens pos 17" cheapo CRT. Money is a concern, they'll use it for Teen stuff. Homework, Surfing, Chatting, and Games. (mostly Flight and Racing Sims) Decent video card but nothing special.

Looking at these two:

Benq FP72G+ S Silver 17" 8ms DVI LCD Monitor-Swivel, Tilt and Height adjustment 250 cd/m2 500:1 0.264mm Pixel Pitch - Retail $179

http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16824014118


Rosewill R911E 12ms Black 19" 12ms LCD Monitor 250 cd/m2 500:1 Built in Speakers 0.294mm Pixel Pitch - Retail $159 after $70 rebate

http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16824021034


Any thoughts? Lookng for something decent under $200 with DVI and 17-19" range.

Thanks!

Try the LG L1752TX (this one has the new high-contrast features, and also a low response time): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824005073

Originally posted by: videogames101
Time to upgrade! I'll be using this for FPS gaming, and whatever game I feel like playing at the time. Widescreen is a plus, but I don't want to pay any more then $300-400. i've read about Viewsonic VX2025wm, but thats just what I've read. Help me!

The VX2025WM is a great screen for the $300-$400 range. That would be the first thing to come to mind for FPS gaming in the 20"/21" sector. Colors/contrast should also be top-notch.

Edit: merged posts.

 

[conlan]

xtknight......thanks much for all the work you have ,and are putting into this thread. After my 19" CRT died yesterday, I read this entire thread as well as most of the reviews posted within on my 17" CRT. My eyes are now totallly bloodshot! Heres hoping my new LCD will allow us to read and game without klling our eyes. I decided on the Ben-Q FP93GX for price and performance. I'll post back on my impressions after a thourough workout. Thanks again!

 

[Aldoria]

Just to toss this out there.

The other news in this segment was upcoming Pro versions of the GX2 range for gamers, in particular the 20WGX2 Pro, available from October. However no details were given at this stage though my money is on further reductions of the response time from the current 6ms to 4 or even 2ms.

Source: http://www.trustedreviews.com/article.aspx?page=6538&head=0

 

[imported_Psykosis]

I'm looking for information about Acer AL1923 monitor. So far I couldn't find any review about it.
Any idea wich Samsung can be the equivalent to the 8ms PVA pannel it has? Thanks!

 

[JETninja]

Originally posted by: xtknight


Try the LG L1752TX (this one has the new high-contrast features, and also a low response time): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824005073

Thanks! Looks pretty sweet!

Any input on this daily special ViewSonic? Has awesome reviews....

ViewSonic VA1912wb Black 19" DVI 8ms Widescreen LCD Monitor Built in Speakers - Retail $196.99 after a $20 Rebate, Free Shipping too....

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824116373

 

[steved72]

Colan, please let us know how the benq fp 93gx is.

 

[JediJorgie]

Originally posted by: conlan
xtknight......thanks much for all the work you have ,and are putting into this thread. After my 19" CRT died yesterday, I read this entire thread as well as most of the reviews posted within on my 17" CRT. My eyes are now totallly bloodshot! Heres hoping my new LCD will allow us to read and game without klling our eyes. I decided on the Ben-Q FP93GX for price and performance. I'll post back on my impressions after a thourough workout. Thanks again!

I bought the FP93GX yesterday too. That combo deal on newegg for an x1600 Pro for $40 and the monitor was too good to pass up. When it comes, I'll post my thoughts on the monitor too.

 

[j3ffry]

Just got my VX2025. It's great! but what's holding me off is that it has a 1 dead pixel in the middle of the screen..

I know I there's no way to get rid of it. Just releasing my "bad luck" I guess..=(

 

[conlan]

Originally posted by: JediJorgie

Originally posted by: conlan
xtknight......thanks much for all the work you have ,and are putting into this thread. After my 19" CRT died yesterday, I read this entire thread as well as most of the reviews posted within on my 17" CRT. My eyes are now totallly bloodshot! Heres hoping my new LCD will allow us to read and game without klling our eyes. I decided on the Ben-Q FP93GX for price and performance. I'll post back on my impressions after a thourough workout. Thanks again!

I bought the FP93GX yesterday too. That combo deal on newegg for an x1600 Pro for $40 and the monitor was too good to pass up. When it comes, I'll post my thoughts on the monitor too.

Don't forget there's a $15MIR on that X1600Pro as well...Final price..$24.95 :Q

 

[JediJorgie]

You're right, I didn't realize the $15MIR was not apart of the $40 price until I saw your thread in Hot Deals. Now if I could only convince my roommate to buy my old card for his new rig for $25...

 

[progressiveMOJO]

This Review warns that the NEC 20WMGX2 stretches the image to fit the full size of the screen, regardless of aspect ratio and regardless of driver settings. Can anyone confirm this? My video card isn't beefy enough (7800GT 256MB, moderately overclocked) to run all my games at full 1680x1050 resolution, and I'd like to be able to switch down to a 4:3 aspect ratio like 1280x1024 or lower without the picture being distorted and stretched. I'd rather just have black bands around the sides and preserve the native resolution as much as possible, but it doesn't look like this monitor will permit that.

That's the one drawback that I see to this monitor, and the only thing that's keeping me from putting one on order.

Also, between the Viewsonic VX2025WM and the VP2030b, which are my backup choices after the NEC, is there a strong reason to pick one over the other? The uses would be a mixture of RTS/FPS/RPG gaming, movie watching, and general/internet/multimedia use. I honestly like the idea of the bigger screen and higher resolution (VP2030b) but don't know if the response time or other factors push the widescreen choice over the top.

 

[Luddite]

xtkight, I noticed on the recommended review sites you list PC World but not CNET. This strikes me as odd. I don't find PC World's monitor reviews very informative as they do not go into very much detail nor explain their testing methods very well. CNET does not come close to X-bit labs or Tom's Hardware, but at least they do seem to go into more detail than PC World. Yet CNET isn't even on the list.

 

[drwho9437]

Question:

I've seen a lot of panel reviews with angle pictures (like on behardware etc). And the TN panels are shown as black from large angles below. My question is if the other technologies eventually look black from bellow or is this a trait exclusive to TN type panels (ie is it a way to identify them).

Thanks much.

 

[ThanatosGOD]

I'm currently about to upgrade from a seriously old 19" CRT and reckon I should make the leap to LCD. After extensive research (and looking at this brilliant thread!) I've compiled this shortlist:

Wide Screen 1680x1050
NEC
MultiSync® LCD20WGX2 6 ms (g2g) S-IPS (LG.Philips LM201W01) panel
Samsung
215TW 21" Wide 8 ms (g2g) S-PVA (Samsung LTM210M2) panel
Viewsonic
VX2025wm 20.1" 8 ms (g2g) P-MVA (AUO M201EW01 V0)

4:3 1600x1200
Samsung
204T 20.1" 16 ms S-PVA (Samsung LTM201U1) panel
214T 21.3" 8 ms (g2g) S-PVA (Samsung LTM213U6) panel
Viewsonic
VP2030b 20" 8 ms (g2g) P-MVA (AUO M201UN02 V5) panel
VP2130b 21" 8 ms (g2g) S-PVA (Samsung LTM213U6) panel

I was considering the Dell UltraSharp 2007WFP/2007FP, but extensive reports of colour banding etc put me off.
Basically my CRT is so old and crap I don't even know the make or model, it?s even a curved screen which reflects! So I'm expecting major improvements from any of the above.
I will be using the screen for FPS gaming along with other genres, watching video torrents e.g. downloaded movies etc, and normal web and office use. I find the idea of widescreen quite appealing-I would not be losing any vertical height compared to my old CRT anyway, and the extra space would be useful.

I realise that pretty much all of the above screens are very good-but I'm looking for the best. All but the NEC MultiSync LCD20WGX2 are Super Patterned Vertical Alignment (S-PVA)/Premium MVA panels (P-MVA). The NEC's new Advanced Super IPS (AS-IPS) panel does appear to be perhaps slightly superior in terms of response times and colour; whereas the S-PVA/P-MVA's seem to have better blacks and movie playback. I'm not too concerned about ergonomics and features etc but want solid build quality and warranties.

Will the 21" screens affect sharpness much with the larger dot pitch? I'm used to reflective screens and they don't bother me much but is the NEC's OptiClear coating really bad? Plus what is 'twinkling' in movies and will it affect me?

I'm not too concerned about price or about displaying these native resolutions, I have a 7900GTX; I just want the best screen possible in this range in terms of responsiveness, clarity, vivid colours, sharpness, and general IQ. The NEC being a widescreen has 1:1 Pixel Mapping which I think could be very useful for any 4:3 games; I'm not sure if any of the other 16:10 screens mentioned have this feature, but then again if the 4:3 screens above are superior then this in inconsequential.

It would be really helpful if someone who has 1 or more of these screens gave their conclusive opinions. Currently I'm leaning towards the NEC MultiSync LCD20WGX2 and widescreen (in general) but will simply get whichever you guys think is the most outstanding!

Thanks

 

[lazerlover]

wow. very nice. thank you for all that info.
my nightmare:
i got a new Dell 1905fp in february 2006 with a newly built system.
a couple of weeks ago my better (in this case, worse) half decided she wanted
destroy it and she exploded a water balloon right in front of the monitor.
death to the 1905!

now i've been looking for a better replacement.
lots of options.

will keep you posted as what i get and how it works.
thanks again.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: progressiveMOJO
This Review warns that the NEC 20WMGX2 stretches the image to fit the full size of the screen, regardless of aspect ratio and regardless of driver settings. Can anyone confirm this? My video card isn't beefy enough (7800GT 256MB, moderately overclocked) to run all my games at full 1680x1050 resolution, and I'd like to be able to switch down to a 4:3 aspect ratio like 1280x1024 or lower without the picture being distorted and stretched. I'd rather just have black bands around the sides and preserve the native resolution as much as possible, but it doesn't look like this monitor will permit that.

I'm not sure. You can check the manual or ask at the Widescreen Gaming Forum thread: http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/fo...=3208&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Also, between the Viewsonic VX2025WM and the VP2030b, which are my backup choices after the NEC, is there a strong reason to pick one over the other? The uses would be a mixture of RTS/FPS/RPG gaming, movie watching, and general/internet/multimedia use. I honestly like the idea of the bigger screen and higher resolution (VP2030b) but don't know if the response time or other factors push the widescreen choice over the top.

Just choose whichever size you like better. They perform very similarly. The VX2025WM may be slightly better overall (take a look at the color delta chart as well): http://www.lesnumeriques.com/duels.php?...08&p1=1073&ma2=41&mo2=102&p2=1025&ph=1

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Luddite
xtkight, I noticed on the recommended review sites you list PC World but not CNET. This strikes me as odd. I don't find PC World's monitor reviews very informative as they do not go into very much detail nor explain their testing methods very well. CNET does not come close to X-bit labs or Tom's Hardware, but at least they do seem to go into more detail than PC World. Yet CNET isn't even on the list.

I don't believe I've come across CNET's LCD reviews before. I've added it to the list. Also updated prices.

I generally, myself, only trust Tom's, X-Bit, hardware.fr (BeHardware), and LesNumeriques. But if one of the more generic review sites catches something they don't, I'd raise an eyebrow.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: drwho9437
Question:

I've seen a lot of panel reviews with angle pictures (like on behardware etc). And the TN panels are shown as black from large angles below. My question is if the other technologies eventually look black from bellow or is this a trait exclusive to TN type panels (ie is it a way to identify them).

Thanks much.

The intense darkening from the bottom angle is characteristic of only TN panels. S-IPS panels will have a purple hue on black colors, and MVA/PVA screens will add a slight yellow quickly at off-axis viewing.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: ThanatosGOD
.....
I will be using the screen for FPS gaming along with other genres, watching video torrents e.g. downloaded movies etc, and normal web and office use. I find the idea of widescreen quite appealing-I would not be losing any vertical height compared to my old CRT anyway, and the extra space would be useful.

I realise that pretty much all of the above screens are very good-but I'm looking for the best. All but the NEC MultiSync LCD20WGX2 are Super Patterned Vertical Alignment (S-PVA)/Premium MVA panels (P-MVA). The NEC's new Advanced Super IPS (AS-IPS) panel does appear to be perhaps slightly superior in terms of response times and colour; whereas the S-PVA/P-MVA's seem to have better blacks and movie playback. I'm not too concerned about ergonomics and features etc but want solid build quality and warranties.

The NEC will likely remain the top dog for a while. The PVA/MVAs may well have a darker black (despite reports of the contrary), but the NEC screen should be able to display colors without such a backlight bias since the PVA/MVA panels are very emissive.

Will the 21" screens affect sharpness much with the larger dot pitch? I'm used to reflective screens and they don't bother me much but is the NEC's OptiClear coating really bad? Plus what is 'twinkling' in movies and will it affect me?

Not sure; I've never seen OptiClear before. Well, I have in stores, however that's a bad basis for judgment since they have tons of lights in the store. As for 'twinkling', I have never seen it in any movies I've watched. I believe they are referring to overdrive artifacts, which are not limited to movies.

I'm not too concerned about price or about displaying these native resolutions, I have a 7900GTX; I just want the best screen possible in this range in terms of responsiveness, clarity, vivid colours, sharpness, and general IQ. The NEC being a widescreen has 1:1 Pixel Mapping which I think could be very useful for any 4:3 games; I'm not sure if any of the other 16:10 screens mentioned have this feature, but then again if the 4:3 screens above are superior then this in inconsequential.

It would be really helpful if someone who has 1 or more of these screens gave their conclusive opinions. Currently I'm leaning towards the NEC MultiSync LCD20WGX2 and widescreen (in general) but will simply get whichever you guys think is the most outstanding!

Thanks

I'd get the NEC over any other screen.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: lazerlover
wow. very nice. thank you for all that info.
my nightmare:
i got a new Dell 1905fp in february 2006 with a newly built system.
a couple of weeks ago my better (in this case, worse) half decided she wanted
destroy it and she exploded a water balloon right in front of the monitor.
death to the 1905!

now i've been looking for a better replacement.
lots of options.

will keep you posted as what i get and how it works.
thanks again.

I'd grab a ViewSonic VP930b. If that's too pricey, get a BenQ FP91G+ or Samsung 940B.

Originally posted by: JediJorgie

Originally posted by: conlan
xtknight......thanks much for all the work you have ,and are putting into this thread. After my 19" CRT died yesterday, I read this entire thread as well as most of the reviews posted within on my 17" CRT. My eyes are now totallly bloodshot! Heres hoping my new LCD will allow us to read and game without klling our eyes. I decided on the Ben-Q FP93GX for price and performance. I'll post back on my impressions after a thourough workout. Thanks again!

I bought the FP93GX yesterday too. That combo deal on newegg for an x1600 Pro for $40 and the monitor was too good to pass up. When it comes, I'll post my thoughts on the monitor too.

I'll be eager to replace the recommendation of the FP91G+ with the FP93G X once I hear more about it.