LCD Buyer's Guide

[ivwshane]

Originally posted by: drwho9437
I agree, 600 is a lot. I have been looking for an IPS panel for sometime under 400 but it seems tricky as sometimes different panels are used in the same model. The 2007WFP was IPS for awhile, but when they fixed the banding issue they went over to an PVA panel from samsung from what I have read.

Really I probably want a 20.1" (or a 17 inch as most 19s have the same resolution as 17) panel, but I'm trying to stay well under 600 that is for sure.

I think LG's L2000C is IPS, some of the NX NECs but yeah. NEC is pricy and I'd rather avoid glossy I think. Thanks for adding the section I'm sure there a handful of us non-gamer's out there.

The 2007fpw is an ips screen even with the new updated firmware (a02) only with the 2007fp is there a possibility that you may get an mva panel.

So far everyone who has received the updated fpw they have been very happy with it.

I could have gotten the 2007fpw for about $329 but I can't afford it at this point in time

 

[El Greco]

Hi all and thanks for this excellent buyers guide!

I have been searching for info about LCDs for some time and the info I needed has often been in this thread, so I decided to register.

I need a good LCD for photo editing, photo viewing and also for 3D design, so I don´t want much ghosting.

I´m currently eyeing 20WGX2, since it has a glossy panel (my preference and I print on a glossy paper, so I think it´s a good match) It can be had in Germany for around 530 euros.

However, I have one question and that is how low can you turn the brightness down? Can it go all the way down to 100, since the default is 470?

 

[Mystiqq]

Originally posted by: El Greco
Hi all and thanks for this excellent buyers guide!

I have been searching for info about LCDs for some time and the info I needed has often been in this thread, so I decided to register.

I need a good LCD for photo editing, photo viewing and also for 3D design, so I don´t want much ghosting.

I´m currently eyeing 20WGX2, since it has a glossy panel (my preference and I print on a glossy paper, so I think it´s a good match) It can be had in Germany for around 530 euros.

However, I have one question and that is how low can you turn the brightness down? Can it go all the way down to 100, since the default is 470?

Ive been looking for lcd for the exact same purpose. I did consider that same NEC model but abandoned it for some reason, which i cant recall now. Ive got my eyes on Eizo FlexScan S1910(K) which seems to be reasonably priced and seems to be suited exactly for graphics editing needs... Though, this one is only 19".

 

[drwho9437]

I have read many reports that the A02 revision of the 2007wfp is a PVA samsung panel.

 

[ivwshane]

Originally posted by: drwho9437
I have read many reports that the A02 revision of the 2007wfp is a PVA samsung panel.

You will have to show me because all the threads I have read have said that the 2007wfp (or 2007fpw) are all s-ips and only the 2007fp (no w) switched between s-ips and pva.

 

[El Greco]

Originally posted by: Mystiqq

Ive been looking for lcd for the exact same purpose. I did consider that same NEC model but abandoned it for some reason, which i cant recall now. Ive got my eyes on Eizo FlexScan S1910(K) which seems to be reasonably priced and seems to be suited exactly for graphics editing needs... Though, this one is only 19".

Thanks for your reply.

I came across this discussion: http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1004&thread=18884805

I looks like that LCDs with such a high brightness are not useable for photo editing. With inaccurate brightness on your monitor, you are likely to edit your photos so they become either too dark or will have blown up highlights.

So, if this is correct, the 20W(M)GX2, should not be recommended for photo editing in this buyers guide.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: El Greco

Originally posted by: Mystiqq

Ive been looking for lcd for the exact same purpose. I did consider that same NEC model but abandoned it for some reason, which i cant recall now. Ive got my eyes on Eizo FlexScan S1910(K) which seems to be reasonably priced and seems to be suited exactly for graphics editing needs... Though, this one is only 19".

Thanks for your reply.

I came across this discussion: http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1004&thread=18884805

I looks like that LCDs with such a high brightness are not useable for photo editing. With inaccurate brightness on your monitor, you are likely to edit your photos so they become either too dark or will have blown up highlights.

So, if this is correct, the 20W(M)GX2, should not be recommended for photo editing in this buyers guide.

I think that, properly calibrated, the 20WMGX2 would be a great monitor for photo-editing (certainly better than many LCDs after calibration). But after reading some reviews, the Samsung 215TW would probably be better, so I'm going to change that.

http://www.flatpanels.dk/test.php?subac...ll&id=1145524300&archive=&start_from=&

 

[xtknight]

You learn new things every day (well, sometimes on a rather weird schedule in the terms of TFT-LCD news).

Every P-MVA panel produced by AU Optronics has up to this point been in a 4-domain cell configuration (like Samsung's PVA). For that reason, PVA and P-MVA screens have had inferior contrast and viewing angles to Samsung's S-PVA series (which has always been 8-domain and has been around for ages now). Now (announced at FPD Taiwan 2006), AUO is coming out with A-MVA (Advanced MVA) panels which are also 8-domain. They will have, you guessed it, improved contrast and viewing angles. The traditional 'washout' (at off-axis angles) of PVA panels like the 2405FPW and all the MVA panels will be a thing of the history (A-MVAs will be almost as good as S-IPS now). The new A-MVAs will be rated as >1200:1 contrast ratio and 89/89/89/89 viewing angle (178/178 like S-PVAs). Pardon me if these sentences are a little mangled. I have been deciphering "Engrish" for the past hour. There is a presentation up at: http://www.auo.com/ discussing also their new motion blur reduction technique (similar to BFI) and dynamic color adjustment technologies.

 

[drwho9437]

ivwshane: yeah I sware someone said that once on the dell forum but I never found it again someone else says its still been IPS the whole time. But the price is back up again so for the moment at least I shall hold off on the dell route, all the banding issues resolved or not make me a bit nervious.

 

[clax]

Thanks for the informative guide xtknight, its very helpful and does a good job of explaining the important factors to consider when looking to buy an LCD.

I've been doing some research into LCD panels and I've pretty much narrowed down my options to either the Viewsonic VX2025WM, or the Dell 2007WFP. I noticed that the Dell 2007WFP isnt recommended here due to the banding issues people have been having, but I wondered whether that is the only reason why it isnt recommended. Behardwares review of the monitor seemed to show good performance with little ghosting, the main caveat behardware suggests is that you're not guaranteed to get a nice panel with the Dell as theyre known to change the internals without warning. In terms of image quality and response time (ghosting issues) how does the 2007WFP compare to the VX2025WM (assuming that the banding issues have been fixed)?

The main things I use my computer for are Web browsing, Gaming and sometimes to watch DVDs. Id probably rate Gaming performance as highest importance, then browsing and movies at about equal.

The main advantages that I know of with the Dell 2007WFP is that it has better ergonomics (tilts, height etc), I think it has some better scaling options whereas I've read that the Viewsonic relies on video card drivers to achieve the same (i dont know if thats a bad thing or not), HDCP support is mentioned but I've heard contradictions. The Viewsonic VX2025WM is cheaper and is recommended at a number of websites as being better than the 2007WFP (this thread, behardware, cnet) and other websites also recommend the Viewsonic against other panels.

I would be interested to hear opinions regarding the Viewsonic VX2025WM vs the Dell 2007WFP (preferably unbiased please), as I really would like to get the best monitor I can for the best price. Here in New Zealand I can get the Viewsonic for around USD$499 and the Dell for $615 without coupons, but its possible that the Dell may eventually be on special for a similar price to the Viewsonic. (on a side note OUCH i never realised how bad the prices here were compared to the US until I did that conversion, you guys are lucky).

Also the NEC 20WMGX2 is not an option for me since it isn't available here in NZ yet, and it would also be prohibitively expensive for me so you need not recommend that one to me

and on a side note, anyone heard of any other AS-IPS monitors coming out soon?

 

[steved72]

Alos got the Benq FP93GX. Graphics look crisp, but when playning toca race driver 3 the trees on the side of the track look like there is a slight blur, put on a normal 17" crt and they are gone. Could it be the monitor.

 

[ivwshane]

Originally posted by: clax
Thanks for the informative guide xtknight, its very helpful and does a good job of explaining the important factors to consider when looking to buy an LCD.

I've been doing some research into LCD panels and I've pretty much narrowed down my options to either the Viewsonic VX2025WM, or the Dell 2007WFP. I noticed that the Dell 2007WFP isnt recommended here due to the banding issues people have been having, but I wondered whether that is the only reason why it isnt recommended. Behardwares review of the monitor seemed to show good performance with little ghosting, the main caveat behardware suggests is that you're not guaranteed to get a nice panel with the Dell as theyre known to change the internals without warning. In terms of image quality and response time (ghosting issues) how does the 2007WFP compare to the VX2025WM (assuming that the banding issues have been fixed)?

The main things I use my computer for are Web browsing, Gaming and sometimes to watch DVDs. Id probably rate Gaming performance as highest importance, then browsing and movies at about equal.

The main advantages that I know of with the Dell 2007WFP is that it has better ergonomics (tilts, height etc), I think it has some better scaling options whereas I've read that the Viewsonic relies on video card drivers to achieve the same (i dont know if thats a bad thing or not), HDCP support is mentioned but I've heard contradictions. The Viewsonic VX2025WM is cheaper and is recommended at a number of websites as being better than the 2007WFP (this thread, behardware, cnet) and other websites also recommend the Viewsonic against other panels.

I would be interested to hear opinions regarding the Viewsonic VX2025WM vs the Dell 2007WFP (preferably unbiased please), as I really would like to get the best monitor I can for the best price. Here in New Zealand I can get the Viewsonic for around USD$499 and the Dell for $615 without coupons, but its possible that the Dell may eventually be on special for a similar price to the Viewsonic. (on a side note OUCH i never realised how bad the prices here were compared to the US until I did that conversion, you guys are lucky).

Also the NEC 20WMGX2 is not an option for me since it isn't available here in NZ yet, and it would also be prohibitively expensive for me so you need not recommend that one to me

and on a side note, anyone heard of any other AS-IPS monitors coming out soon?

Those are the same two lcd's I'm looking at. I'm waiting for the guys at widescreengaming.com to compare the two (their forums have been great for hearing real world experiences).

 

[Heartbreaker]

Originally posted by: xtknight
You learn new things every day (well, sometimes on a rather weird schedule in the terms of TFT-LCD news).

Every P-MVA panel produced by AU Optronics has up to this point been in a 4-domain cell configuration (like Samsung's PVA). For that reason, PVA and P-MVA screens have had inferior contrast and viewing angles to Samsung's S-PVA series (which has always been 8-domain and has been around for ages now). Now (announced at FPD Taiwan 2006), AUO is coming out with A-MVA (Advanced MVA) panels which are also 8-domain. They will have, you guessed it, improved contrast and viewing angles. The traditional 'washout' (at off-axis angles) of PVA panels like the 2405FPW and all the MVA panels will be a thing of the history (A-MVAs will be almost as good as S-IPS now). The new A-MVAs will be rated as >1200:1 contrast ratio and 89/89/89/89 viewing angle (178/178 like S-PVAs). Pardon me if these sentences are a little mangled. I have been deciphering "Engrish" for the past hour. There is a presentation up at: http://www.auo.com/ discussing also their new motion blur reduction technique (similar to BFI) and dynamic color adjustment technologies.

I don't know about this. I had a supposed S-PVA screen in my Dell 2007fp, LTM201U1 S-PVA. It had washout just as bad as the Dell 2405 I had.

 

[QuantumPion]

Right now I have both a Samsung 204b and a Viewsonic VX922. I don't like the Viewsonic at all, the 5:4 ratio is distracting, the stand is too tall for my desk and is not adjustable, and I really notice the screen-door effect all the time. I'm not usually bothered by visual artifacts like that but it is so apparent it is bad. Also, there is bad backlight leakage on the top edge. On the bright side though it is very fast with no ghosting at all. I want to return it but I don't think I can, on newegg it is listed as warrantied by manufacturer only. I might try to sell it on ebay, it doesn't have any dead pixels so I can use that as a selling point.

I like the 204b, I think I can get used to 1600x1200. However, I am worried that it might have input lag. I have read that the video response can be as much as 50 ms behind the input signal. Now I'm not sure if I am noticing input lag or if it is just a psychosomatic response after reading the article. Sometimes it seems like sound effects are happening before I see them visually, but it might just be my imagination, or because I had to move my speakers around from when I was using a CRT and the sound field is just different. I can see a tiny bit of ghosting if I try, but it doesn't bother me. However I would be wary about getting a monitor with any slower of a response rate. I have until Friday to make up my mind whether to return it or not.

I kind of want to get a 4:3 1600x1200 8 bit monitor, but they all seem to have problems or are too expensive.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: El Greco
Hi all and thanks for this excellent buyers guide!

I have been searching for info about LCDs for some time and the info I needed has often been in this thread, so I decided to register.

I need a good LCD for photo editing, photo viewing and also for 3D design, so I don´t want much ghosting.

I´m currently eyeing 20WGX2, since it has a glossy panel (my preference and I print on a glossy paper, so I think it´s a good match) It can be had in Germany for around 530 euros.

However, I have one question and that is how low can you turn the brightness down? Can it go all the way down to 100, since the default is 470?

In my experience, most LCDs allow you to turn the brightness down to where it looks like you're wearing sun glasses. I don't know how many nits that would be. The Samsung 215TW would be a better choice for photo-editing.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: clax
Thanks for the informative guide xtknight, its very helpful and does a good job of explaining the important factors to consider when looking to buy an LCD.

I've been doing some research into LCD panels and I've pretty much narrowed down my options to either the Viewsonic VX2025WM, or the Dell 2007WFP. I noticed that the Dell 2007WFP isnt recommended here due to the banding issues people have been having, but I wondered whether that is the only reason why it isnt recommended.

That, and the fact that Dell switches the monitors' internals on a monthly basis, voiding earlier reviews and experiences.

In terms of image quality and response time (ghosting issues) how does the 2007WFP compare to the VX2025WM (assuming that the banding issues have been fixed)?

Actually, if it weren't for the banding, it would probably be better than the VX2025WM. Apparently though the Dell also had some weird text sharpness problems.

The main things I use my computer for are Web browsing, Gaming and sometimes to watch DVDs. Id probably rate Gaming performance as highest importance, then browsing and movies at about equal.

The main advantages that I know of with the Dell 2007WFP is that it has better ergonomics (tilts, height etc), I think it has some better scaling options whereas I've read that the Viewsonic relies on video card drivers to achieve the same (i dont know if thats a bad thing or not), HDCP support is mentioned but I've heard contradictions.

Scaling by the video card usually isn't bad. Sometimes the monitor's scaling quality is better, but sometimes vice versa.

I would be interested to hear opinions regarding the Viewsonic VX2025WM vs the Dell 2007WFP (preferably unbiased please), as I really would like to get the best monitor I can for the best price. Here in New Zealand I can get the Viewsonic for around USD$499 and the Dell for $615 without coupons, but its possible that the Dell may eventually be on special for a similar price to the Viewsonic. (on a side note OUCH i never realised how bad the prices here were compared to the US until I did that conversion, you guys are lucky).

I would get the VX2025WM because it has little banding, is cheaper, and the Dell isn't better enough in other areas to warrant its price (basically only slightly better viewing angles).

and on a side note, anyone heard of any other AS-IPS monitors coming out soon?

I haven't heard of any other AS-IPS panels.

 

[ivwshane]

All reports are saying that the banding issue on the dell 2007fpw has been fixed with the a02 firmware, as well as any text ghosting issues.


In terms of price, you can easily reduce the price of the dell 2007fpw if you call in as opposed to ordering it online.

I was quoted a "buy it now price" of $329 a week ago and a call back price of $389.

For an lcd with hdcp support and swivel/height adjustment, think the price is worth an $80 difference.

 

[Mystiqq]

Originally posted by: El Greco

Originally posted by: Mystiqq

Ive been looking for lcd for the exact same purpose. I did consider that same NEC model but abandoned it for some reason, which i cant recall now. Ive got my eyes on Eizo FlexScan S1910(K) which seems to be reasonably priced and seems to be suited exactly for graphics editing needs... Though, this one is only 19".

Thanks for your reply.

I came across this discussion: http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1004&thread=18884805

I looks like that LCDs with such a high brightness are not useable for photo editing. With inaccurate brightness on your monitor, you are likely to edit your photos so they become either too dark or will have blown up highlights.

So, if this is correct, the 20W(M)GX2, should not be recommended for photo editing in this buyers guide.

Thanks for that link.

The NEC might be ok for photo editing etc., but i donno. At least with Eizo i can be relatively safe that the display will work for CAD, photoshop, etc. stuff since they do mainly monitors for professionals.

Also i read somewhere that Eizo is releasing new models based on the 1910 by this summer/fall.

 

[El Greco]

Originally posted by: xtknight


In my experience, most LCDs allow you to turn the brightness down to where it looks like you're wearing sun glasses. I don't know how many nits that would be. The Samsung 215TW would be a better choice for photo-editing.

I´m no expert but I read somewhere that LCDs don´t perform very well far away from their native luminance. I don´t know if that is true though.

I really want the glossy panel and I guess I should contact NEC about it. However, the tech support is likely to know less than me about the monitor...

At least, I´m getting a S-IPS panel, since they are within my budget.

 

[El Greco]

Originally posted by: Mystiqq


Thanks for that link.

The NEC might be ok for photo editing etc., but i donno. At least with Eizo i can be relatively safe that the display will work for CAD, photoshop, etc. stuff since they do mainly monitors for professionals.

Also i read somewhere that Eizo is releasing new models based on the 1910 by this summer/fall.

NECs are up to the same standard as the Eizo´s, at least when you compare equally priced monitors. At least, NECs are good enough and I haven´t noticed many complaints about their performance.

 

[steved72]

Tried My Benq FP93gx again last night, so far all racing & flight games blur on the side of the screen, Flight sims blur when looking left or right. FPS - fear, quake4 are ok, bnut when on a crt all the games are fine.

 

[steved72]

Any ideas on the above blurring.

 

[steved72]

 

[Mystiqq]

Originally posted by: El Greco

Originally posted by: Mystiqq


Thanks for that link.

The NEC might be ok for photo editing etc., but i donno. At least with Eizo i can be relatively safe that the display will work for CAD, photoshop, etc. stuff since they do mainly monitors for professionals.

Also i read somewhere that Eizo is releasing new models based on the 1910 by this summer/fall.

NECs are up to the same standard as the Eizo´s, at least when you compare equally priced monitors. At least, NECs are good enough and I haven´t noticed many complaints about their performance.

Im fairly sure you are correct, but i was referring to the 20W(M)GX2 model.

Originally posted by: El Greco

Originally posted by: xtknight


In my experience, most LCDs allow you to turn the brightness down to where it looks like you're wearing sun glasses. I don't know how many nits that would be. The Samsung 215TW would be a better choice for photo-editing.

I´m no expert but I read somewhere that LCDs don´t perform very well far away from their native luminance. I don´t know if that is true though.

I really want the glossy panel and I guess I should contact NEC about it. However, the tech support is likely to know less than me about the monitor...

At least, I´m getting a S-IPS panel, since they are within my budget.

Do you have any specific models in mind that have S-IPS?

 

[Hikari]

So is the new Phillips 23" one the only 'new' 23" S-IPS one (230WP7NS)? I've been holding off for ages. I'd not mind S-IPS and HDCP as well, but no one is offering this currently.