LCD Buyer's Guide

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: steved72
Tried My Benq FP93gx again last night, so far all racing & flight games blur on the side of the screen, Flight sims blur when looking left or right. FPS - fear, quake4 are ok, bnut when on a crt all the games are fine.

Either you are sensitive to the blurring or what you're really seeing is tearing. Which image best describes the effects you see?

a) http://www.lesnumeriques.com/produits/48/1134/48_112_109.jpg
b) http://www.extron.com/technology/img/imagetearing.jpg

 

[El Greco]

Mystiqq,

Yes I have several models in mind and maybe the 20WGX2, as well as Philips 200W6 and LG L2000C.

xtknight posted a thread 1 or 2 days ago about new consumer 1600x1200 panels coming out within a year or so, that will have more gamut than NTSC. So I don´t think it is wise to buy a very expensive panel today, because they will be worse than this new panel when it arrives.

I think that one of these S-IPS panels I mentioned are good enough to get the job done for the next year or so.

 

[Luddite]

Originally posted by: Mystiqq

Originally posted by: El Greco

Originally posted by: Mystiqq

Ive been looking for lcd for the exact same purpose. I did consider that same NEC model but abandoned it for some reason, which i cant recall now. Ive got my eyes on Eizo FlexScan S1910(K) which seems to be reasonably priced and seems to be suited exactly for graphics editing needs... Though, this one is only 19".

The NEC might be ok for photo editing etc., but i donno. At least with Eizo i can be relatively safe that the display will work for CAD, photoshop, etc. stuff since they do mainly monitors for professionals.

Also i read somewhere that Eizo is releasing new models based on the 1910 by this summer/fall.

Eizo has just come out with the Flexscan S1931 and S1921, with the former having a faster response time. Eizo, as some of you may know, made the switch from S-IPS (Hitatchi and Mitsubishi) panels to the new Samsung S-PVA panels. They must feel those panels are superior for whatever reason. The new Flexscan S2100 (4:3) has been added to their 21" line-up to go along with the 21" widescreens. The S2100 has a more realistic 300 cd/m2 brightness level ( compared with the 450 cd/m2 [yikes!] of the widescreens) and looks very tempting to me.

 

[El Greco]

Or Eizo could just get them for less than the S-IPS? Eizo like other companies are not in the market to make the absolutely best monitors, but make them cheap and sell expensive. The Flexscans are just consumer monitors with a high end name IMO.

If people think that there are better panels than S-IPS today, just take a look at this:

http://www.behardware.com/articles/619-...ated-survey-13-lcd-20-5-6-8-16-ms.html

 

[fstime]

Quick question,

I'm looking at buying a nice 20-24 inch LCD monitor.

My price limit is $800 but don't let this fool you, i'm looking at spending much less (~500 maybe) if I can.

I want something with good picture quality, gaming is also a concern of mine.

I basicly want somthing very balanced in all fields.

So what do you guys think?

 

[imported_Psykosis]

I was checking up the specs of the Viewsonic vp720b for a friend and found some inconsistences. The pannel seems to be a TN 4ms g2g one, but the viewing angles don't match (they are too wide but still, you can see the classic TN "shadow" near the top border). Can the clearmotiv coating boost the response time and viewing angles?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Psykosis
I was checking up the specs of the Viewsonic vp720b for a friend and found some inconsistences. The pannel seems to be a TN 4ms g2g one, but the viewing angles don't match (they are too wide but still, you can see the classic TN "shadow" near the top border). Can the clearmotiv coating boost the response time and viewing angles?

ClearMotiv in it self is not a coating, but a set of technologies that aim to reduce response time (adjusting liquid crystal viscosity, overdrive, backlight switching). Viewing angles can be a little different within a class of panels (like TNs). The main sign that it's a TN would be the especially bad bottom viewing angle.

 

[imported_Psykosis]

Oh but, the viewing angles are pretty wide for a TN: 170/170 at least as stated on Viewsonic's page, that why I thought the it has some kind of coating to reach thouse values.

 

[CP5670]

My 90GX2 inexplicably broke down a few days ago. I have no idea what happened to it, but it refused to display any image at all on Monday morning despite working fine the previous night. My only guess is it may have been a power surge as I've had some trouble with that recently, although the computer and desk light on the same power strip haven't had any problems.

The NEC customer support guy I talked to said I could send it in and get it back repaired in two to three weeks, or get a refurb replacment in two days for a cost of $50 (when I said that I had no such fees on my CRT RMAs a year ago, he said the RMA policies for their consumer monitors are different than for the professional models). I asked for the standard replacement, then changed my mind and decided I didn't want to wait so long, and called them back. The new guy said there was no extra fee for the advanced replacement option and promptly set me up for that. I was wondering if any of you have done RMAs with NEC and could clear this up.

The replacement just came in a hour ago and works fine. This one seems to be even brighter than the old one; I have the brightness set to 5% to bring it down to a comfortable level. It has one dead pixel, although I'll probably just live with it as it doesn't show up that easily with my green on black Windows color scheme.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: BouZouki
Quick question,

I'm looking at buying a nice 20-24 inch LCD monitor.

My price limit is $800 but don't let this fool you, i'm looking at spending much less (~500 maybe) if I can.

I want something with good picture quality, gaming is also a concern of mine.

I basicly want somthing very balanced in all fields.

So what do you guys think?

Would you consider widescreen?

The Samsung 215TW looks like a great all-around LCD. High contrast, low black level, good response time, and it also has HDCP support with tons of inputs. It costs $499.99 at Newegg: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824001078

There is also the ViewSonic VP2030b: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824116371

Though the VP2030b will have a faster response time, its colors will be inferior (but still quite good).

I have not heard much at all about the 23" S-IPS screens. Dell's 2405FPW (PVA) is decent if you can get it within your price range. The 2407WFP is even better (it has an S-PVA and HDCP support). However some reports say that it will not input 1080p. Check this thread for more info: http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...atid=31&threadid=1880209&enterthread=y

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Hikari
So is the new Phillips 23" one the only 'new' 23" S-IPS one (230WP7NS)? I've been holding off for ages. I'd not mind S-IPS and HDCP as well, but no one is offering this currently.

It's quite a chore to find out whether a monitor supports HDCP. ViewSonic has the VP231wb and BenQ also has a 23" widescreen, along with LG. Apple has the 23" Cinema Display too. All of these seem to be S-IPS, but whether HDCP or not, I don't know the answer to that. If you're planning on getting one I'd just grab the Philips.

CP5670: Sorry to hear but I've heard great things about NEC Europe's tech support.

 

[josh6079]

I don't mean to thread crap or anything and I hope I'm not doing so by commenting here, but why are 20" LCD's always locked at a 60 Hz refresh rate when in their highest resolution? in fact, why do they even have a "refresh" rate if they don't even refresh? Bascially, I'm tired of having to depend on Triple Buffering to keep my frames good without screen tearing. Sometimes you just don't have the extra memory to use Triple Buffering in a game. My IBM monitor, I believe it has the Trinitron tube, can do 2048x1536@75hz. I understand why it has one as it is actually a CRT, but the LCD's?

 

[CP5670]

CP5670: Sorry to hear but I've heard great things about NEC Europe's tech support.

Their support is indeed among the best I've dealt with. It's just that this $50 fee the first person brought up seemed a little strange, although it looks like they aren't charging me that after all.

I don't mean to thread crap or anything and I hope I'm not doing so by commenting here, but why are 20" LCD's always locked at a 60 Hz refresh rate when in their highest resolution? in fact, why do they even have a "refresh" rate if they don't even refresh? Bascially, I'm tired of having to depend on Triple Buffering to keep my frames good without screen tearing. Sometimes you just don't have the extra memory to use Triple Buffering in a game. My IBM monitor, I believe it has the Trinitron tube, can do 2048x1536@75hz. I understand why it has one as it is actually a CRT, but the LCD's?

I think it's a limitation of single link DVI. From the Wikipedia DVI article, it looks like standard DVI doesn't allow for 75hz at 1600x1200.

I find that triple buffering works well in games that support it. The memory usage of TB generally isn't a big problem, as modern cards usually have plenty of memory to spare, but there is sometimes no way to get TB working at all in certain games. (particularly on Nvidia cards, since the drivers don't have any option to force it on in D3D games)

 

[TubeTote]

Hi all...this seems like a great guide to understanding LCDs, but maybe a bit over my head technically. Can anyone recommend a solid LCD in the 19-20 inch range? Willing to spend a little more...want the moniter for gaming, photo manipulation, and television / movie viewing. I guess just an all around great moniter that isn't too specialized for one specific task, but doesn't let you down on any task either. Thanks in advance to responders.

 

[steved72]

Xtknight, I had a look at both the pics, more the first pic, also I do get a little vsync tearing now and again, also when I move my mouse across the desktop it blurs slightly & if I move a window around, Is this normal for an LCD.

 

[Dark Alchemist]

I am stuck (for a long time now) on which monitor I should buy. I am terribly afraid of stuck or dead pixels because that will annoy me so much I would take a sledge hammer to the monitor (I am not joking).

Now I am looking at the NEC 20WMGX2 but I read a review from May and it said the monitor can't scale 4:3 tv at all. Even on the PC you can tell it 4:3 and it will still stretch it horizontally. Is that still the case? If so forget that monitor.

What I need is a monitor to replace my pro Viewsonic 17PS. I use it for games, 3d rendering, as well as digital photography so my demands are quite high on what I need out of a LCD panel and it needs to scale to 4:3 as needed which is what I prefer.

Anyone out there with some suggestions? I need the replacement monitor asap as this 17PS is just dieing too fast now (thousands upon thousands of hours on it since 1997).

Thanks.

 

[josh6079]

Originally posted by: CP5670

I think it's a limitation of single link DVI. From the Wikipedia DVI article, it looks like standard DVI doesn't allow for 75hz at 1600x1200.

I find that triple buffering works well in games that support it. The memory usage of TB generally isn't a big problem, as modern cards usually have plenty of memory to spare, but there is sometimes no way to get TB working at all in certain games. (particularly on Nvidia cards, since the drivers don't have any option to force it on in D3D games)

In Oblivion with all of my mods that I have, I don't have enough memory for TB. And if it is a DVI thing, I wish that my IBM CRT's DVI actually worked so I could see. It has both VGA and DVI hookups yet the DVI doesn't work. Go figure, a grade A refurb my a$$.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: TubeTote
Hi all...this seems like a great guide to understanding LCDs, but maybe a bit over my head technically. Can anyone recommend a solid LCD in the 19-20 inch range? Willing to spend a little more...want the moniter for gaming, photo manipulation, and television / movie viewing. I guess just an all around great moniter that isn't too specialized for one specific task, but doesn't let you down on any task either. Thanks in advance to responders.

You'll probably want a high-quality 20"+ monitor. The Samsung 215TW is great for all of those, as is the ViewSonic VP2030b. The ViewSonic VX2025WM isn't too shabby either.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: steved72
Xtknight, I had a look at both the pics, more the first pic, also I do get a little vsync tearing now and again, also when I move my mouse across the desktop it blurs slightly & if I move a window around, Is this normal for an LCD.

You are most likely sensitive to the motion blur of your LCD. The only thing you can do is get a faster LCD.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Dark Alchemist
What I need is a monitor to replace my pro Viewsonic 17PS. I use it for games, 3d rendering, as well as digital photography so my demands are quite high on what I need out of a LCD panel and it needs to scale to 4:3 as needed which is what I prefer.

I'm pretty certain the Samsung 215TW will do all that, including 4:3 scaling.

 

[Dark Alchemist]

So, that review is still correct I take it and the NEC just can't scale down? That is a really poor design considering the thing is a tv too and regular televisions scale 4:3 perfectly fine (black strips on the sides).

How is the dead and stuck pixels on the 215TW?

Oh, and on this very forum I see that the 215TW ghosts 3 or 4 frames behind so that is no good and we know that surely isn't a real 8ms.

Man LCD monitors are so sucky still but they are getting better just not there yet.

 

[PolaroidPaul]

Originally posted by: UsandThem


I just ordered this when I saw it for $199.95 after $55.00 MIR. Can't wait to get it.

This refers to the Samsung Syncmaster 840B. Did you get it, do you like it, and where did you order it from?

 

[paulw86]

Is there a way I can play my PS2 on VX2025WM?

 

[xtknight]

Regarding the VP930b "theft deterrent" issue and about the VP930b in general, "Lubo" wanted me to post his e-mail, so here goes:

(The hard reset method is to hold both the first (power) and third (contrast) buttons down at once while plugging in the power cable.)

Hi xtknight,
It worked for me. I have unplugged the power cable while it was working and pressed the buttons. It showed a message "All reset" and that was it. The PerfectSuite showed that i have to enter my PIN, so it is disabled now.
I am sorry not posting this problem on the annandtech forum. Last night i have readed almost the whole thread about the LCD buying guide.
I am sorry to see that other people have problems with their monitors. I have this X light issue but it is only in dark scenes when i watch movie. I use the monitor for office work, text mostly and i am very pleased with every aspect of this monitor. I have trusted the tomshardwareguide.com and have decided to buy two monitors even without seeing them. But it is true that a LCD monitor must me bought only after seeing it with your own eyes.

Thank you very much about you quick answear. May be you post this email thread in the forums so other people can read it. I have no registration there.

Thank you very much again.
With respect,
Lubo

P.S. 6/23/06 I have just received yet another e-mail about this same issue. ViewSonic has still not fixed this problem.

 

[redbox]

Originally posted by: paulw86
Is there a way I can play my PS2 on VX2025WM?

yes I wonder about this too. not really the PS2 but game other consoles and the like.