LCD Buyer's Guide

[kenji4life]

Great review!!! If the bleeding really bothers you, have them send out the new one and see if it's any better. Like you said, you can decide then anyhow, so it's not a big 'risk'.

I have an NEC multisync 17" CRT and I love it so much, that I lean towards NEC for a future purchase for that reason alone. I am in the market for a new monitor, and my major deciding factor is whether to move the NEC into the movie theater and get a new screen for my gaming rig, or vice versa. This would essentially be the difference between getting a 24" WS for the room and keeping the 17" for gaming, or getting a 20" WS for the gaming and using the 17" as the primary monitor in my movie theater.
Decisions, decisions. I think I will probably wait until the better 24" lcd's start coming out so they have a better chance of being more responsive/better suited for my purpose.

xtnight, great progress on the website!!

edit: sorry, to clarify a couple of things, my NEC is I think an FE700+ or some variant, i forget the exact model number.

the 'primary' monitor in my movie theather is for the HTPC. Currently I have NO monitor hooked up to this computer and am using my infocus 7805 as the only display (which really is a pain) This monitor would be used for selecting movies, short tv watching and xbox360 playing, internet surfing, and light gaming. It will allow me to use the HTPC for short periods of time or those times when it's more convenient than using a 108" as a screen.

 

[Dark Alchemist]

http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/06/27/xxl_displays/page7.html

NEC MultiSync LCD20WGX2 review at THG (just done today) and it conflicts with a bunch of what I am hearing on here.

 

[samduhman]

Its not just a NEC 20wgx2 review. Its a review of 4 20" monitors. The overall winner is the Viewsonic VX2025

tomshardware

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Luddite

Originally posted by: xtknight


The 2405FPW no longer exists on Dell's site. I'll have to replace that with the 2407WFP. Thanks for letting me know. I'm going to have to research that some more. Anyone know anything about the 2407WFP?

CNET just reviewed the Dell 2407WFP, and gave it an excellent rating. According to the Danish flatpanels site the Dell 2407WFP has a Samsung S-PVA panel (they say it's either a LTM240ML2 or a LTM240L2 number panel) with 6 ms (g2g). The monitor is adjustable and pivots between landscape and portrait. Unlike Dell's last 24" model, the brightness has been kept to a reasonable 300 cd/m2. CNET reviewers saw some minimal streaking and ghosting. Other than that, I don't know too much about it yet. Will wait until X-bit, Tom's and TFT Central come out with their reviews. User ratings are high so far.

PC World just reviewed their picks for Top Five 20" widescreen LCDs. The NEC 20WMGX2 came first overall. Yet they thought the Acer Ferrari F-20 had the best image quality, but gave the Acer low marks for features.

edit: Just noticed on TFT Central an article about the Dell 2407WFP. There are some concerns about it, notably text fuzziness, some color banding and possible input lag. TFT does an indepth comparison between the new 2407WFP and the old 2405WFP.

Thanks for the info. The later revisions of the 2407WFP (A01 and A02) sound like they are great LCDs. I hope at least all the A01s have "sunk in" to the market by now.

Originally posted by: drwho9437
Xknight saw the new site, I looked at the gradient tool. I like checkmon though:
http://www.ykwong.com/checkemon.html

Tests lots of things.

Cool, I'll add a link to it.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Dark Alchemist
No problem as I dug a little more and yep 24-5 is no longer in there and is replaced with a 2407.

btw, what is OA? Oh, and what would you use to remove fingerprints etc... It says a soft cloth but it says not to apply pressure so how in the world do you remove a fingerprint?

http://www.usbpro.net/list.asp?id=222
This stuff? I have no clue. I think it's a generic cleaner for "office automation" products like computers and typewriters.

You'll have to apply pressure. Just very, very, gentle. Treat the screen like a bomb detonator button...you don't want to push too hard.

I've always used a damp (water) cloth to clean my LCDs (and that is what my ViewSonic VP930b manual recommends). Distilled water should be even better as it contains no "nutrients" to complicate the solution.

 

[xtknight]

I can't say I've agreed with Tom's reviews lately. Though their measurements show otherwise, I've heard countless reports of 'zero' ghosting. I have looked and looked and couldn't find one complaint of ghosting for the NEC. http://images.tomshardware.com/2006/06/27/xxl_displays/latency_20gx2.gif I even threw some of my test images at the 20WMGX2 people over at widescreengamingforums.com and they said the test image was no worse than any other image, when it would be horrible on a screen with poor overdrive control. I'll get to the bottom of it when I get one myself in a few months.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: ThanatosGOD
Got the NEC MultiSync LCD20WGX2! (BRIEF REVIEW)

The review was much appreciated.

I currently have the colour set to sRGB 6500K; but I am not sure whether to use native or not? Do any of you think using a calibrator is worth it? Or do you recommend using another colour space or temperature? I really would like some advice in this area.

If you have a hardware calibrator, use it. If not, sRGB 6500K is the standard sunlight/daylight temperature and generally looks the best. Not sure what you mean by "native".

Having just got the monitor I would appreciate some help in adjusting monitor settings. In particular the BRIGHTNESS, CONTRAST, and SHARPNESS levels. This is a very bright screen-currently I have it set at 50% but am not sure if that?s best.

I think the setting for this is called 'EXPANSION MODE' but I don't seem able to adjust that control-I don't know if its because I'm using DVI and not analogue. Nevertheless I want this feature and need to know how to enable it as it?s invaluable in games.

The LCD20GX2 thread folks over at widescreengamingforum.com would be better at answering your monitor-specific questions. Controls vary greatly from monitor to monitor.

They offered me a replacement and will ship it to me, give me a chance to compare the new one and return the old one if its better. I have a week or so to decide what to do. Should I replace the panel? Has anyone had any experience with RMA'ing the NEC MultiSync LCD20WGX2? What I don't want is to end up with a worse screen, perhaps with dead pixels or to continually send back replacements, as I have done with other products.

I'm glad to hear they're cracking down on the backlight bleeding. If it's not better, can't you return it?

I hope this review was useful, and I thank xtknight and others for their advice prior to purchase; and I would really appreciate some advice regarding the questions above.

Thanks

Thanks again for the review. I'm now confident enough the response time of a new 20GX2 will be a lot better than my current monitor.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: pencilcase

Originally posted by: xtknight
If one of your worries is support, I'd avoid ViewSonic. I've not gotten a single reply from ViewSonic support via e-mail. I was very pleased with my 17" Samsung 710T. You'll want the DVI input just in case you ever get a display adapter with DVI out. Having never dealt with Iiyama before I couldn't tell you how good their support is. If portrait mode isn't that important, get the Samsung SM740B. I'm confident you'd be happy with that one in the other aspects. If you think you'd miss the portrait mode then grab the Iiyama.

xtknight, thanks for your reply. I've decided to leave the Iiyama out of the picture, as I've read reports of users who had problems with buzzing from the inverter and I have a silent system! I'm sure the Samsung is a solid performer, most all users report being very pleased with their Samsung monitors and I have a feeling they ship with fewer dead pixels, ViewSonic's 'zero bright pixel' warranty notwithstanding. On the other hand, I think the ability to use portrait mode would be a good feature to have, as I'll be doing tons of wordprocessing. So I think I'll mull this over for a little longer...

Sorry I can't help you further with that. I'm not familiar with too many monitors in the UK. Is there a store you're planning on ordering from that has a list of available monitors?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: kenji4life
Great review!!! If the bleeding really bothers you, have them send out the new one and see if it's any better. Like you said, you can decide then anyhow, so it's not a big 'risk'.

I have an NEC multisync 17" CRT and I love it so much, that I lean towards NEC for a future purchase for that reason alone. I am in the market for a new monitor, and my major deciding factor is whether to move the NEC into the movie theater and get a new screen for my gaming rig, or vice versa. This would essentially be the difference between getting a 24" WS for the room and keeping the 17" for gaming, or getting a 20" WS for the gaming and using the 17" as the primary monitor in my movie theater.
Decisions, decisions. I think I will probably wait until the better 24" lcd's start coming out so they have a better chance of being more responsive/better suited for my purpose.

xtnight, great progress on the website!!

edit: sorry, to clarify a couple of things, my NEC is I think an FE700+ or some variant, i forget the exact model number.

the 'primary' monitor in my movie theather is for the HTPC. Currently I have NO monitor hooked up to this computer and am using my infocus 7805 as the only display (which really is a pain) This monitor would be used for selecting movies, short tv watching and xbox360 playing, internet surfing, and light gaming. It will allow me to use the HTPC for short periods of time or those times when it's more convenient than using a 108" as a screen.

The MultiSync FE700+ is indeed a high-quality aperture grille CRT (with no less than the OptiClear coating). Many people have liked the 20GX2 even better than their AG CRTs, so I hope the case is the same with you. I think you should move the CRT to the HTPC room and get the NEC 20GX2 for gaming. Image quality on the 20" W NEC is still superior to what any 24" LCD can offer. The 24" is still going to be a shrimp compared to a 108" projection anyway.

 

[Dark Alchemist]

"I've always used a damp (water) cloth to clean my LCDs (and that is what my ViewSonic VP930b manual recommends). Distilled water should be even better as it contains no "nutrients" to complicate the solution."

Perfect and what I was thinking.

"Its not just a NEC 20wgx2 review. Its a review of 4 20" monitors. The overall winner is the Viewsonic VX2025 "

Yes, but I don't care about the other models at this time as my point is that the THG review contradicts a few things about the 20WGX2 on this thread. Now I have no idea who or what to believe.

Back to no new monitor for me I am afraid after that THG review.

 

[kenji4life]

Haha good point.
The weak link in my setup will always be that I went with a 'budget' dlp projector, the sp4805 projector is only a 480p resolution, although I don't complain

btw 7805 above was a typo

Yes, even though I wasn't the best at researching before buying when I was younger (and purchased the FE700+) I still think I found a good little 17" crt.

I also agree that I will likely have more fun with the LCD as a gaming panel, especially with the more real estate.. I think it will also double as a good TV for my bedroom.

 

[kenji4life]

Take it with a grain of salt, read behardware's review again. They seem a bit more thorough. (sp?)

 

[Dark Alchemist]

I guess I am expecting too much out of the technology to be honest. I would not be upgrading (downgrading it seems to me) if my CRT monitor wasn't finally dieing.

What I want from monitor is a nice picture, good color rendition, no ghosting, no dead pixels, and I can play a movie on without a grainy effect (like the Samsung panels display). I seriously do not think LCD will ever overtake a CRT but there are new technologies on the horizon to buy problem is I can no longer wait. So, I suspect I need an okay game panel but a stellar movie and graphics monitor but which one that is I don't know.

Is the Dell 2007WFP still a problem child?

 

[XBEALY]

Wow. I just got my Dell UltraSharp 1907FP. It's just like the Analog Version, only with Digital input. I love this thing. I like the picture much more than I do on my crt monitor. It has an 8ms response time, so ghosting isn't really noticeable. I recommend going UP to an lcd. It's gorgeous. The only negative I can find is if high resolutions are important to you. 1280x1024 is good enough for me, especially when I get LCD. Anyway, that's what I think. I love the Dell 19"

 

[XBEALY]

Oh, By the Way, This 19" ultrasharp is selling for only $247.20 I think it's a steal for the quality. Here's the link.

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/prod...&l=en&mnf=694&Page=productlisting.aspx

 

[jdoggg12]

I would like some suggestions for an LCD to pair up or replace with my viewsonic g220fb 21" crt. I want to spend less than $400 and would like it to have at least 1 usb port. For gaming, pshop, and movies. Thanks all!

 

[drwho9437]

Originally posted by: Dark Alchemist
I guess I am expecting too much out of the technology to be honest. I would not be upgrading (downgrading it seems to me) if my CRT monitor wasn't finally dieing.

What I want from monitor is a nice picture, good color rendition, no ghosting, no dead pixels, and I can play a movie on without a grainy effect (like the Samsung panels display). I seriously do not think LCD will ever overtake a CRT but there are new technologies on the horizon to buy problem is I can no longer wait. So, I suspect I need an okay game panel but a stellar movie and graphics monitor but which one that is I don't know.

Is the Dell 2007WFP still a problem child?

I just got mine, the backlighting seems fairly uniform, there are non dead pixels on my sample. A01 revision (they are now on A02) shows little or no banding in desktop mode. Dell as a long term recomendation is no good bc they change the panels they use, however if you were to get one now and don't mind a little hastle I would say its a good deal.

 

[Dark Alchemist]

Don't mind a little hassle how? I don't deal with Dell for 5 years now so I have no idea but Dell is in my city.

 

[drwho9437]

As in some people still have recently gotten A00 recently in which case you will have to go on the dell forums, and PM chris the moderator to get a replacement.

So go through your list, I don't think samsung has anything atypical compaired to and other LCD so far as 'grainy'.


"I seriously do not think LCD will ever overtake a CRT but there are new technologies on the horizon to buy problem is I can no longer wait."

That is absurd. Give it another 2 years tops. Already close to the same on graphics work for the ultra high end.

Lots of good monitors for games/videos, but graphics with it are tougher with games.

 

[Dark Alchemist]

Not absurd as the horizon means it is within 1-2 years and is an offshoot of what we have now. It is coming quickly but it is not a TN/MVA/IPS that is for sure (at least not what I have seen scanning the net).

edit: Do you think LCD can be pushed into the 100 or less nano second range and have a 10bit LUT? Just wondering as I don't know what the limits are for those crystals.

Well, if it isn't going to be the NEC and it isn't going to be Dell that still leaves me with Samsung that xt mentioned.

 

[drwho9437]

I never said they would cost the same. I payed 400 dollars or so for my first 15 inch CRT.

Since when can you see 100 ns? What would be the point? today there are LCDs that show little or no ghosting. They have different characteristics than CRTs to be sure.

If you want an LCD with CRT characteristics then you are waiting for a day that will never come because CRT characteristics aren't the holy grail of monitors. Plasmas for instance have better color gammet.

Do I think 10-bit color LUT will become the norm, now. Average people who used CRTs for decades did so without colorometers, and detailed calibration over a sometimes fuzzy RGB cable.

If you had read my post I said 2 years tops... so your first sentence makes no sence.... My last LCD: 2003 responce time 32 ms. I don't know the physical limits of crystals turning, but I doubt they have yet been reached. Better backlights will improve color. I plan on keeping the S-IPS panel I just got for at least 4 years, and I do mostly photography.

There is no reason not to look into technology to get the best product you can, but people, not just you seem to get wildly carried away by this strange desire that they must have the best. Is a good dramma really devalued if it is a DVD and not Blu-ray or if it has a tiny twinkle or does it matter what the actors say and how they say it? Perhaps everyone elses eyes are just more senstive than mine.

 

[paulw86]

I am determined to set up my own home theatre. xtknight, can you tell me where I can find the Westinghouse lvm-37w1? Is it still the best choice?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: paulw86
I am determined to set up my own home theatre. xtknight, can you tell me where I can find the Westinghouse lvm-37w1? Is it still the best choice?

According to my HTPC LCD correspondent, ST, it's still a great value for HTPCs. The Westinghouse LVM-37W3 is even better with more inputs and a lower response time. Have you looked on Froogle for purchasing locations? Also try the Westinghouse webpage's 'find reseller' function for the model. The Sceptre 37" X37SV-Naga is also a good choice.

 

[imported_ST]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: paulw86
I am determined to set up my own home theatre. xtknight, can you tell me where I can find the Westinghouse lvm-37w1? Is it still the best choice?

According to my HTPC LCD correspondent, ST, it's still a great value for HTPCs. The Westinghouse LVM-37W3 is even better with more inputs and a lower response time. Have you looked on Froogle for purchasing locations? Also try the Westinghouse webpage's 'find reseller' function for the model. The Sceptre 37" X37SV-Naga is also a good choice.

The W1's can be had as little as $1100 on the net; just search around. THe W3's are a little more expensive, but have much better industrial design, feature a revised panel from AUO with better specs, and have more inputs. Just stay away from the W2's, as it is a 1376 x 768 panel.

The Sceptre 37" also has gone through numerous revisions, albeit still utilizing the same panel and exterior. It now features internal QAM support, as well as sporting a very low entry price (see Costco site).

I also experimented with the Emprex 1920x1080p LCDTV that was on sale at Fry's recently. After much fiddling, found out it cannot take a direct 1:1 1080p input @ 60hz. RAther, 1080i or 1080p @ 45hz was its max (and that still showed some issues), so deinfitely stay away from it.

 

[kellaklor]

I'm looking for a good monitor in the region of $200 to replace my CRT, I don't really care about gaming or size, but would like one with excellent color richness/clarity. I was considering BenQ FP93GX and LG L1752TX (what's with the freakishly good contrast). Also what about the Benq FP72G+. It has lower specs but claims to have "senseye" which I can't find many reviews about. BenQ claims it enhances picture quality, but would it be a big enought boost to compete with the other 300:700 or the LG 300:1400. If you have any other monitor recommendations please post.