LCD Buyer's Guide

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: eXecutioner28
but u think that if I have the money then Samsung 940B should be the first choice? and then the Benq FP91G+ and thirdly Belinea 10 19 25?

I say:

1. BenQ FP91G+
2. Belinea 10 19 25
3. Samsung 940B

 

[eXecutioner28]

really BenQ on first place? I am a bit surprised. I thought Samsung is the best out of these three.... and it's on the first page under GENERAL USAGE and GAMING (maximum speed). I am a bit worried that Benq's brightness and contrats ratio. And some people said to get away from Belinea in general. So maybe in your contry they sell different models... dunno what to do.

 

[eXecutioner28]

BenQ FP91GP has P-MVA matrix (but 8ms gtg)?
is this better than FP91G+? he has 19" AU Optronics TN Film (M190EN04 V5) 8ms. Just like model BenQ FP91GX (only he has 4ms gtg). This one costs more but why buy it when it's almost the same. I think I ruled out Belinea. So I think that I'll be most likely buying BenQ or a SMG (gotta call for price list on 940B).

will see... just to check again. Why is Samsung 740B better then BENQ FP71GX, 4 ms? thier price is about the same.

just keep in mind that I use monitor for movies and games.... so black needs to be black. And good colours....

thanks for helping out. much appreciated

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: eXecutioner28
BenQ FP91GP has P-MVA matrix (but 8ms gtg)?
is this better than FP91G+? he has 19" AU Optronics TN Film (M190EN04 V5) 8ms. Just like model BenQ FP91GX (only he has 4ms gtg). This one costs more but why buy it when it's almost the same. I think I ruled out Belinea. So I think that I'll be most likely buying BenQ or a SMG (gotta call for price list on 940B).

will see... just to check again. Why is Samsung 740B better then BENQ FP71GX, 4 ms? thier price is about the same.

just keep in mind that I use monitor for movies and games.... so black needs to be black. And good colours....

thanks for helping out. much appreciated

For gaming the 940B may be faster but I think the BenQ would have more vibrant colors over all. As for Belinea, it was just average, but you did say the 940B had the brightness issue so that didn't sound compelling. I may replace the 940B with the BenQ in the recommendations.

The FP91GP looks good, but I haven't seen any reviews for it or even heard of it so I have a hard time recommending it. That said, BenQ is a trustworthy brand so you have nothing to worry about. It should be better than the FP91G+ with a very close response time, higher contrast, and wider viewing angles.

The FP71GX has an AUO TN panel, meaning it may offer more vibrant colors than the 740B. However, I think the 740B has a better response time without having to use overdrive which causes artifacts. Overall the 740B would have to be the winner there (17"). If you can get the FP91GP, that looks to be the most convincing at the moment. It uses the same panel as my VP930b, which is great for movies and quite impressive for games.

So, here's what I think:

17": Samsung 740B
19": BenQ FP91GP. If not that, then BenQ FP91G+.

 

[eXecutioner28]

ok, thank you for now... on Friday I will go to the capital city Zagreb and buy one of the mentioned monitors... U helped a lot so thanks a lot.

the only thing that is bothering me is that BenQ 91GP has MVA matrix and I wonder if it shows any ghosting in FPS games or movies. where can one find a review?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: eXecutioner28
the only thing that is bothering me is that BenQ 91GP has MVA matrix and I wonder if it shows any ghosting in FPS games or movies. where can one find a review?

MVA+Overdrive matrixes only show more ghosting in part of the color spectrum that doesn't occur very often. My VP930b is very suitable for gaming IMO. Yes, there are some rare points where two dark colors ghost, but the extra contrast you get over a TN is too much to pass up. If the games you play are always very dark it may possibly be a concern but if not then you have nothing to worry about. It hasn't come up enough to bother me and the color looks great.

For movies I doubt anyone could see ghosting, even on a 25 ms. (actual measurement) monitor, simply because you are not controlling the screen like you are with a game and it's not nearly as bothersome. If you sit farther back for watching movies it's even less noticeable.

 

[eXecutioner28]

ok, if I'll gather enough money then I will buy BenQ 91PG, if not then 91G+. Is there any other brand with MVA matrix in the price range of 91GP?

 

[pencilcase]

xtknight, I was wondering if you've come across this Sony SDM-S95D before. If I'm not mistaken, it has the same AUO 8ms panel as the VP930, and I can get it for £188 (346 USD) here in the UK. My only concern is that some monitors that are equipped with both DVI and VGA inputs seem to display text a lot more poorly when used in VGA mode. I've read that this is the case for the VP930, for example. I don't know if you've tried using yours on VGA. If so, what was your experience?

If this is likely to be a problem, then I could still go for the SM770P, though I must admit it looks a bit less attractive now that Ebuyer has put its price up. Or I could wait for the new SM971P which I believe is due to be released in Europe within July. But I bet this will be even more expensive, at least initially.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: eXecutioner28
ok, if I'll gather enough money then I will buy BenQ 91PG, if not then 91G+. Is there any other brand with MVA matrix in the price range of 91GP?

The Acer AL1923r is quite cheap here in the US. Other than that, I don't know.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: pencilcase
xtknight, I was wondering if you've come across this Sony SDM-S95D before. If I'm not mistaken, it has the same AUO 8ms panel as the VP930, and I can get it for £188 (346 USD) here in the UK. My only concern is that some monitors that are equipped with both DVI and VGA inputs seem to display text a lot more poorly when used in VGA mode. I've read that this is the case for the VP930, for example. I don't know if you've tried using yours on VGA. If so, what was your experience?

If this is likely to be a problem, then I could still go for the SM770P, though I must admit it looks a bit less attractive now that Ebuyer has put its price up. Or I could wait for the new SM971P which I believe is due to be released in Europe within July. But I bet this will be even more expensive, at least initially.

I just tried it and the VP930b is extremely good in VGA mode (after using the OSD's auto-adjust). I was amazed. I can't even tell the difference between DVI and VGA. It does depend largely on the quality of your graphics card's VGA output. At the moment I have a 7800GT dual-DVI card so for VGA I'm using a DVI-I->VGA connector to hook up to the monitor's "D-Sub 1" connection. It could be that dual-DVI cards have higher quality DVI-A (VGA) as well. My old Radeon 9500 PRO's VGA output (secondary) looked muddy on a Samsung 710T. I don't think I ever got a chance to try VGA with the 7800GT on the 710T or with the 9500 PRO on the VP930b. Nor did I get to try using a DVI-I->VGA connector on the 9500 PRO to test the 710T/VP930b.

I would still go with the 770P because of the high-contrast. I think you'd be very pleased with it. The 970P is the 19" version of the 770P and it's a lot more expensive so I'm not sure why the 971P would be any cheaper unless it's a trimmed-down version. The 17" model has a finer dot pitch and higher contrast. Is the 770P cheaper anywhere other than eBuyer?

About the Sony: no I actually haven't heard of that model but I have heard of a very similarly-named one (the SDM-HS95D) that didn't post extremely pleasing results in the LesNumeriques tests. If you find good reviews on the SDM-S95D it may be a great candidate.

 

[mingsoup]

Any of you guys wondering how an LCD holds up as a HDTV? I just wanted to share my expierence with my first LCD, and more importantly my multi-function requirements. I have absolutely 0 problems with my Dell 2405 and am so glad I got rid of my clunky CRT. I sat on my CRT throne and looked down at the LCD world. I would never settle for an LCD with their inaccurate color and low response times. Bah! I was totally wrong.

See my review of the Dell 2405 FPW used in a dual Monitor/HDTV role. If you were thinking about playing your console on an LCD, maybe for college, look at the screenshot gallery of different input. I am working on Xbox and Xbox 360 pics. I've got Gamecube, PC, and PS2 pics up already. If you have any feedback at all, requests for more info/pics, Please use the form on the review page. Thx

Dell 2405 FPW Review

Out!

 

[MBrown]

Does anyone have any info on this LCD? NEC Display Solutions LCD2070WNX.

 

[pencilcase]

Originally posted by: xtknight
I just tried it and the VP930b is extremely good in VGA mode (after using the OSD's auto-adjust). I was amazed. I can't even tell the difference between DVI and VGA. It does depend largely on the quality of your graphics card's VGA output. At the moment I have a 7800GT dual-DVI card so for VGA I'm using a DVI-I->VGA connector to hook up to the monitor's "D-Sub 1" connection. It could be that dual-DVI cards have higher quality DVI-A (VGA) as well. My old Radeon 9500 PRO's VGA output (secondary) looked muddy on a Samsung 710T. I don't think I ever got a chance to try VGA with the 7800GT on the 710T or with the 9500 PRO on the VP930b. Nor did I get to try using a DVI-I->VGA connector on the 9500 PRO to test the 710T/VP930b.

That's very interesting. xtknight, thanks so much for taking the trouble to check!

Is the 770P cheaper anywhere other than eBuyer?

No. Prices seem to be holding up, even though stock levels are more or less static.

About the Sony: no I actually haven't heard of that model but I have heard of a very similarly-named one (the SDM-HS95D) that didn't post extremely pleasing results in the LesNumeriques tests. If you find good reviews on the SDM-S95D it may be a great candidate.

Despite the similarity of the name, the HS95D is a very different monitor. It has a TN panel and a non-pivoting design, whereas the S95D has a 8ms MVA panel and a more ergonomic stand. I've found a rather extensive user review of the S95D in mva.pl. This guy has performed a battery of tests on this and other monitors (such as the FSC P19-2 and the Acer AL1922AS) and has posted pictures on his website. I'm no expert but it looks to me that the S95D performed rather well (at least in colour and picture quality). Unfortunately, I cannot decipher any of his comments in the above thread, as I don't read Polish. I've tried online translation, but it produced mainly gibberish. If there are any Polish speakers here who can give me a lowdown on the reported strengths and weakness of this monitor, your help will be much appreciated!!!

 

[mnf]

xtknight, first, thanks for a very, very helpful thread. I've learned a lot from you and the other posters and would be grateful for your recommendations for an LCD monitor for me. I'm assuming that 19" is probably better than 17" for me though I understand that the resolution is the same. In addition to other research, I read the first 30 and last 5 pages of this thread, so please excuse me if some of my questions were answered in between.

I'm an architect and my LCD will be used mainly for CAD/computer drafting with some 3D manipulation. In addition, I also do general internet/windows stuff. I don't do much gaming.

The candidates I'm currently considering closely are:

Higher range: Viewsonic VP930 and Samsung 970P

Lower range: Viewsonic VA912 and BenQ FP91G+ (How come nobody mentions the VA912 and why did you axe the Samsung 940B from your recommendations?)

Whadayathink?

Michael

 

[Sleepyghost]

Curious that I don't see Philips 230WP7NS in the Recommended-list. Xtknight, would you consider mentioned monitor to compete with Samsungs you listed for PHOTO EDITING (CONSUMER/PROSUMER)? If there's any faults in the monitor to be pointed out in this regard, I would like to know. Thank you.

For now it looks this Philips is my next buy (in coming weeks). I'd like it with HDCP, S-video input and other goodies, but seems fitting as is.

And Zebo, if you're still following this thread, please do tell if you bought this monitor as earlier intended and if so then how did you like it? Pardon me if I you already wrote about it and I missed it.

This thread got me following certain NEC monitors closely, but info on 230WP7NS got my attention. 23" screen with AS-IPS, hell, and for a decent price for the size - compared to the NECs IPSs. Apparently other big a$$ AS-IPS LCDs are coming - Philips is first in this size 'cause they make their own panels. If I one should wait then maybe there would be some with HDCP.

Most thorough info I found on widescreengamingforum. Here's link to their reviews(links in page bottom):
http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/wiki/index.php?title=Philips_230WP7NS_05

Tamlin in TheFuzz thread on 230WP7NS on WideScreenGamingForum:
Turns out that they actually uses the new AS-IPS panels (but without overdrive and dynamic contrast ratio). The panels have a typical 12ms BtW response time and 8 ms GtG without having to use overdrive (which is good because overdrive can cause artifacts on certain tasks). The panels have the new backlighting system as the AS-IPS. Basically, we are talking about an improved L2335, but with less connection options.

Later in the same thread he mentions he has inside info on previous being a fact. And by L2335 he means HP L2335.

edit: fix typos

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: mingsoup
Dell 2405 FPW Review

Out!

Thanks!

Originally posted by: MBrown
Does anyone have any info on this LCD? NEC Display Solutions LCD2070WNX.

It uses a "10 ms TN panel' (fast for gaming with limited color depth and viewing angles). I haven't seen any reviews of it yet but I'll post here if I find info later. It may very well be a good value 20.1" widescreen.

This particular TN panel only dithers up to 16.2M (253^3=16194277) colors, not 16.7M (256^3=16777216).

The user manual is here: http://www.nec-display-solutions.com/co...e__Details,spec=x__hq__en,docId=146332

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: pencilcase
Unfortunately, I cannot decipher any of his comments in the above thread, as I don't read Polish. I've tried online translation, but it produced mainly gibberish. If there are any Polish speakers here who can give me a lowdown on the reported strengths and weakness of this monitor, your help will be much appreciated!!!

There was a Polish guy in this forum named darXoul, he may be able to help you. He used to be quite active around here. I haven't seen him here in a while but I PM'd him asking if he can provide us any info on the S95D from that post.

It looks like the monitor is good in image quality but a bit slow in response time, at least from what I can tell from the PC Magazine review:

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1907525,00.asp

If the VP930 is an option that would be a great monitor.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: mnf
xtknight, first, thanks for a very, very helpful thread. I've learned a lot from you and the other posters and would be grateful for your recommendations for an LCD monitor for me. I'm assuming that 19" is probably better than 17" for me though I understand that the resolution is the same. In addition to other research, I read the first 30 and last 5 pages of this thread, so please excuse me if some of my questions were answered in between.

Welcome to the forums.

Higher range: Viewsonic VP930 and Samsung 970P

Both are good, high-contrast monitors. Keep in mind the 970P lacks an OSD. Both use dithering: the VP930 has a subtle flickery frame-rate-control type while the 970P uses classic 2x2 dithering to achieve 16.7M. The 970P has a higher contrast and reasonable response time so it may be more suited to you than the fast but slightly lower-contrast VP930. Each still offers a higher contrast than any TN.

Lower range: Viewsonic VA912 and BenQ FP91G+ (How come nobody mentions the VA912 and why did you axe the Samsung 940B from your recommendations?)

Give the BenQ FP93G X a serious look as well. It's quite an improvement over the FP91G+, which is OK for your purposes though not great. Right now it boasts the fastest response time in the industry (0[min]~6[max] ms. actual). Still, you said you won't be gaming much, so I think an MVA/PVA panel is more suited for your uses so if you can't afford the 970P grab the VP930.

Thanks for bringing the 940B up, I forgot to mention about that. The 940B had a disappointing response time. It's not absolutely horrible but it's pretty bad considering there's a lot better out there. I can't believe they have the audacity to call it 8 ms. Apparently my assumption that it was a regular TN (20 ms) panel was wrong. http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/other/display/19inch-4_23.html

I don't know much about the VA912 but my friend has the VA902 and he says it's better in all areas than his old CRT. Of course, it's a TN panel, so you know to expect a fast response time with a rather mediocre contrast and viewing angle.

 

[xtknight]

I'm planning to redo the guide fairly soon so that it's easier to keep the website version up to date with the forum version.

 

[imported_Mant]

First xtknight, let me say you do a great job with this thread keeping it current and answering questions. My hat's off to you.

XBit Labs posted an article on the FP93GX recently, dont know if you've seen it:
XBit labs article
So I was just about to pull the trigger and buy the Viewsonic VX922 until I saw that article. Now I'm seriously considering the BenQ. I was worried about muddied colors and backlight bleed like I heard about on some previous BenQ monitors, but it seems like they've fixed that.
I want to use this almost exclusively for gaming with occasional reports and presentations for work. But importantly, there's only a $20 difference now at the Egg, so do I go for the Name or the Newcomer?

WHOA!... Just after I posted this, I see the BenQ shot to the top of the fast gaming list! I guess my choice was made for me! Thanks!
and I see you've seen the article already too...

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Sleepyghost
Curious that I don't see Philips 230WP7NS in the Recommended-list. Xtknight, would you consider mentioned monitor to compete with Samsungs you listed for PHOTO EDITING (CONSUMER/PROSUMER)? If there's any faults in the monitor to be pointed out in this regard, I would like to know. Thank you.

It doesn't look *exceptional* for photo-editing but it's the best you're going to get for that size, so I'll consider adding it to the list. Where it falls flat is contrast (the Samsungs hit 1000:1 with a great black level).

http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/07/03/wide_format_lcd_monitors/page10.html

This thread got me following certain NEC monitors closely, but info on 230WP7NS got my attention. 23" screen with AS-IPS, hell, and for a decent price for the size - compared to the NECs IPSs.

The Philips is only an S-IPS screen since AS-IPS is reserved for the NEC-exclusive panel with dynamic contrast features AFAIK. It's possible it's a TW-IPS (true-wide IPS) or "Enhanced S-IPS". What you really want to pay attention to is the objective measurements. I think it does use overdrive but as you can see it still hits 25 ms.: http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/07/03/wide_format_lcd_monitors/page11.html

The overdrive did not overshoot at all though. Either that or there is no overdrive at all.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Mant
WHOA!... Just after I posted this, I see the BenQ shot to the top of the fast gaming list! I guess my choice was made for me! Thanks!
and I see you've seen the article already too...

Yep, I just updated that five minutes ago. The BenQ is faster than the previous shining star, the ViewSonic VX922 which IIRC hit ~8 ms. Whatever the case they're both extremely fast and the BenQ's overshoot control is very decent. I'm almost certain the VX series have more overdrive error. I've heard of plenty of backlight bleed reports of the VX922 as well. Gamma accuracy sags more on the VX924 (so probably VX922 too) IMO. http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/other/display/response-compensation_19.html

AUO 19" TN panels, like those in the VX922/FP93G X, are very vibrant if not too accurate.

 

[FrankDC]

I don't have time to read through 80 pages of posts, but has there been any discussion of the new LCDs with LED backlights? Specifically NEC's SpectraView and Eizo's high-end line?

NEC is claiming 107% coverage of AdobeRGB color space, which is astonishing for an LCD. You think LED backlights are the future for LCD panels in general, or just an expensive niche product for graphic editors?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: FrankDC
I don't have time to read through 80 pages of posts, but has there been any discussion of the new LCDs with LED backlights? Specifically NEC's SpectraView and Eizo's high-end line?

I posted a thread about AUO's new LED backlight panels that, I believe, were aimed toward consumers.

NEC is claiming 107% coverage of AdobeRGB color space, which is astonishing for an LCD. You think LED backlights are the future for LCD panels in general, or just an expensive niche product for graphic editors?

When they get cost-effective they will certainly be the future. I do believe they will get cheaper and make inroads into the consumer market. These monitors also allow a true adjustment of color temperature vs. the lowly gamma compensation current LCDs have. Another item of interest is the new CCFL phosphors, which, IIRC, increase gamut to 92%.

 

[FrankDC]

To me, the major benefit of LED backlights is their longevity. I can't justify spending top-dollar for an LCD with a CCFL backlight, when these bulbs lose anywhere from 30-50% of their brightness within the first three years of usage. The new LED backlights lose (according to NEC) only up to 30%, and that's within the first twenty years.