LCD Buyer's Guide

[pencilcase]

Originally posted by: xtknight
pencilcase: I haven't heard back from darXoul yet but it looks like you chose to get the 770P (well, I hope you can get a good one).

xtknight, sorry if I have confused you. I did order a Sony SDM-S95DB (PVA, 1000:1, 170/170) first but they sent me a SDM-S95DRB (TN, 550:1, 160/160), which as you can see from the specs is a very different model. Then I ordered a SM770P hoping for better luck, but received a defective panel...

Here's what I mean. Click to magnify. The shadow is about 1.5 inches above the 'm' in 'Samsung'.

At the moment I have the SM770P hooked up to my laptop and the S95DRB hooked up to my main computer. I had no problem installing and running the MagicTune software on my laptop (it has integrated Intel Extreme 2 Graphics Solution/ 855 chipset), but when I tried it on my desktop (with VIA/S3 Unichrome Pro) I got an incompatibilty message. I'm going to try one of the free programmes, the softMCCS, to see if that works.

I don't know if it's the integrated video and/or the analogue signal, but on both my computers the SM770p has trouble displaying black text on a coloured background. On this website for example the black text on grey background looks just awful. There are white shadows around all the letters. The S95DRB on the other hand has a different problem. When connected to my laptop, everything (text, images, etc.) is hopelessly blurry. When connected to my desktop, it is much better but still not clear enough for me to work long hours without straining my eyes.

I never realised that the lack of DVI would be such a huge problem. Text on my laptop's 15" lcd display is much clearer than on either the SM770P or the S95DRB.

The viewing angles on the SM770P could be better. Colours start to fade at a 45 degree angle. Compared to the SM770P, the SD95DRB is only worse when looked at from below. However, the Samsung does have richer colours than the Sony by default, though the difference is not as great as one might have expected. I could possibly live with the Sony if it weren't for the lack of clarity on VGA mode and also if it was usable with my laptop. [Edit: The Sony also has a bright red subpixel in the middle area of the screen but it's not terrible and given the situation it's really the least of my problems.].

Is there anything I can do to resolve this issue short of buying a new computer?

 

[LoneWolf69]

Hello again xtknight and all,
I talked to you a couple of weeks ago concerning an LCD monitor for doing my image editing in my photography business. I still haven't totally made up my mind and never dreamed I would have such a hard time making this decision but the more I read the more confused I become. Anyway, I thought I was totally sold on the Samsung 215TW which you had advised me on the last time I was here and it is still my number 1 choice on the consumer models but I have one more option I wanted to run by you before making my final decision. I found where I can get a LaCie 319, which comes with their LaCie blue eye pro calibration software and I also found where I can get their LaCie blue eye pro calibrator very reasonable. Anyway, I can get this setup for within $100USD of what I can get the Samsung 215TW setup for by the time I purchase ColorEyes Display Bundle 3.1.07 and the necessary DVI cable which the LaCie monitor comes with. OK, finally to my question. Do you think I would have a better setup for image editing to go with the LaCie setup versus the Samsung setup, especially if I can get it for less than $100USD difference? It just seems from everything I have read that the LaCie monitor should produce better image/color quality for what I am using it for. Again, I won't be using it for any gaming, movies or anything other than just image editing. I hope all of this makes sense and I am sorry to ramble on.

ADDED: One other model I am considering and was wanting your opinion about is the EIZO L788. Which is the better choice in your opinion between the LaCie 319 and the EIZO L788 or is there any noticable differnce? One thing I did notice which REALLY stood out was the 5 year warranty offered on the EIZO and it meets the newer TC003 compliance. Other than this I couldn't find any reviews which really made one stand out over the other. Any input you have on this would be greatly appreciated as well.

Thanks again for all of your help with this and for all of the information you have provided here on the forum. This is by far the most informative and complete site I have found on the web.

Thanks Again and Take Care!
LoneWolf

 

[imported_Psykosis]

The only thing that worries me is the 35 ms response time X-Bit Labs measured on the 940B. I find it pretty hard to believe but I took it off the recommendations list in favor of the 940BF which seemed to excel at everything.

I feel a bit dissapointed about this article too, because they didn't mention a thing about VP930b backlight bleeding, something that they usually check on every model. :-/

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: LoneWolf69
Hello again xtknight and all,
I talked to you a couple of weeks ago concerning an LCD monitor for doing my image editing in my photography business. I still haven't totally made up my mind and never dreamed I would have such a hard time making this decision but the more I read the more confused I become. Anyway, I thought I was totally sold on the Samsung 215TW which you had advised me on the last time I was here and it is still my number 1 choice on the consumer models but I have one more option I wanted to run by you before making my final decision. I found where I can get a LaCie 319, which comes with their LaCie blue eye pro calibration software and I also found where I can get their LaCie blue eye pro calibrator very reasonable. Anyway, I can get this setup for within $100USD of what I can get the Samsung 215TW setup for by the time I purchase ColorEyes Display Bundle 3.1.07 and the necessary DVI cable which the LaCie monitor comes with. OK, finally to my question. Do you think I would have a better setup for image editing to go with the LaCie setup versus the Samsung setup, especially if I can get it for less than $100USD difference? It just seems from everything I have read that the LaCie monitor should produce better image/color quality for what I am using it for. Again, I won't be using it for any gaming, movies or anything other than just image editing. I hope all of this makes sense and I am sorry to ramble on.

The LaCie 319 is almost inevitably better because it has an S-IPS panel. It can deliver an even truer saturation at lower luminance, making it better for photos. I will probably add it to the recommendations because it looks like a fairly good value, at least much better than the $3-6000 ones.

ADDED: One other model I am considering and was wanting your opinion about is the EIZO L788. Which is the better choice in your opinion between the LaCie 319 and the EIZO L788 or is there any noticable differnce? One thing I did notice which REALLY stood out was the 5 year warranty offered on the EIZO and it meets the newer TC003 compliance. Other than this I couldn't find any reviews which really made one stand out over the other. Any input you have on this would be greatly appreciated as well.

Thanks again for all of your help with this and for all of the information you have provided here on the forum. This is by far the most informative and complete site I have found on the web.

Thanks Again and Take Care!
LoneWolf

If you wanted to know the truth, I don't think the Eizo (PVA) could stand a chance to the LaCie (S-IPS). If you can get the LaCie for a good deal then that's even better. TCO '03 really doesn't mean much. Most of the time the only difference is the color of the bezel (white is supposed to be easier on the eyes so they can call that TCO '03). Whether the warranty matters is up to you, but I'd get the LaCie anyway.

 

[LoneWolf69]

Hello again xtknight,
Thanks again for your advice. After calculating everything out there is actually only $65USD difference between what I can get the LaCie 319 setup versus the Samsung 215TW setup. I never dreamed I could get the cost this close but because the LaCie comes with the DVI cable and calibration software it makes the cost much closer so I think this definitely the way to go. Hopefully I can get it all ordered tonight and maybe have it by the end of the week. I will post a review/reply once I receive everything. In fact, I may need to consult you on getting everything calibrated once I get it if you are willing to give me some pointers on that end.

Thanks again for everything and Take Care!
LoneWolf

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Dark Alchemist
XT you sure do get around don't you? Just found you over at www.flatpanels.dk talking about the 20wmgx2 and the 215TW.

Yep I am mainly active at: widescreengamingforum, hardforums, flatpanels.dk, forums.anandtech.com.

Originally posted by: Dark Alchemist
I bought the 215TW and will not be able to set it up until tomorrow but I did manage to see a 90GX2 and that screen was way too much glare (same screen as the 20WMGX2) for this computer room.

Cool, let us know how you like it.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Nextman916
Sorry been kinda busy . :Q! Thats pretty shocking if its true....although i hate to admit it sometimes i notice serious ghosting when gaming. Its not terrible but is still a huge improvement compared to my previous MAG(probably why i thought so highly of the 940b when i first go it). I guess in reality its specs arent up to par for its claim, after reading that article its obvious the 940BF is the clearer choice. Oh well, im browsing for a new display anyways, savin cash up for either that or put towards a new rig+parts. Also again very nice guide you have here :thumbsup: i know ive already said this once but its really evolved into something else. I think its great for all who are in the market for a new lcd or for those who want to learn about the technology, i must have viewed it 25+ times by now. 63,277 views? your the man!

Thanks, and yeah, ghosting certainly is subjective. It's the weirdest part of an LCD. It's one of those things you get used to after time (in most cases).

Originally posted by: LoneWolf69
Hello again xtknight,
Thanks again for your advice. After calculating everything out there is actually only $65USD difference between what I can get the LaCie 319 setup versus the Samsung 215TW setup. I never dreamed I could get the cost this close but because the LaCie comes with the DVI cable and calibration software it makes the cost much closer so I think this definitely the way to go. Hopefully I can get it all ordered tonight and maybe have it by the end of the week. I will post a review/reply once I receive everything. In fact, I may need to consult you on getting everything calibrated once I get it if you are willing to give me some pointers on that end.

Thanks again for everything and Take Care!
LoneWolf

Good luck!

 

[evil204]

I'm thinking about buying the 204B this week, and I want to clarify something..
What will happen if I try to play games at 1024x768 or 800x600 instead of the native 1600x1200 resolution? My graphics card is a 7800GT, and I don't think my computer can handle running the latest games at 1600x1200, so does playing at a lower resolution cause a noticeable amount of lag or blurring?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: pencilcase
xtknight, sorry if I have confused you. I did order a Sony SDM-S95DB (PVA, 1000:1, 170/170) first but they sent me a SDM-S95DRB (TN, 550:1, 160/160), which as you can see from the specs is a very different model. Then I ordered a SM770P hoping for better luck, but received a defective panel...

Here's what I mean. Click to magnify. The shadow is about 1.5 inches above the 'm' in 'Samsung'.

I can see it in the picture but I have no clue what it could be. It looks like a 'blemish' in the panel but not any dead or stuck pixel.

I don't know if it's the integrated video and/or the analogue signal, but on both my computers the SM770p has trouble displaying black text on a coloured background. On this website for example the black text on grey background looks just awful. There are white shadows around all the letters. The S95DRB on the other hand has a different problem. When connected to my laptop, everything (text, images, etc.) is hopelessly blurry. When connected to my desktop, it is much better but still not clear enough for me to work long hours without straining my eyes.

I never realised that the lack of DVI would be such a huge problem. Text on my laptop's 15" lcd display is much clearer than on either the SM770P or the S95DRB.

VGA is only as good as the device from which it's generated (the RAMDAC). VGA has the potential to be very good. That's the case with my VP930b, but I'm sorry to hear your experience was far from mine. Of course, it could be the monitors at fault and not the VGA output itself. I'm not sure how laptops are hooked up so the 15" display may be getting a digital signal, or perhaps a better-quality analog one.

The viewing angles on the SM770P could be better. Colours start to fade at a 45 degree angle.

Unfortunately that's as good as it gets under 20". Above that we have S-PVA (and all 8-domain VAs), and S-IPS which is the least affected.

Is there anything I can do to resolve this issue short of buying a new computer?

New laptop I assume? You can just slip a PCI/AGP/PCIe video card with DVI in your computer, right? If your laptop doesn't have a modular graphics module (like NVIDIA's MXM) I'm afraid that is the case. Unless there is some USB or PCMCIA solution, but I'm not familiar with that area.

 

[qdogforeva]

I bought a 215TW this weekend and took it back the next day.

I was coming from a Samsung 997 19" CRT and the 215TW was awesome in almost every respect...I was very impressed. But there was one thing that killed the deal for me.

When viewing shadows scenes in games (in particular) at a normal contrast/brightness level (not eye bleeding) I could not see very little detail. This was very obvious in games like Oblivion where shadows are quite visible. It made the grass in that game look TERRIBLE. The wierd thing is if I tilted my head just a bit to the left or the right I could see everything fine.

I did a little bit of research and it seems, according to one guy in some secluded forum, that all VA and TN panels exhibit this issue to some degree due to the manufacturing process. I suppose that the majority of people don't notice this type of issue, but there are those of us who are sticklers and would notice it. The guy called it some Zero Angle blah blah and it had to due with seeing all the color gradiants at a Zero Degree Angle on some panels. (The guy was at least referencing the 215TW directly in the post...)

I just thought that I would put the word out for those people who are sensitive to these types of things. This really kills the LCD market for me, I suppose....

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: evil204
I'm thinking about buying the 204B this week, and I want to clarify something..
What will happen if I try to play games at 1024x768 or 800x600 instead of the native 1600x1200 resolution? My graphics card is a 7800GT, and I don't think my computer can handle running the latest games at 1600x1200, so does playing at a lower resolution cause a noticeable amount of lag or blurring?

Not to burst your bubble but I'd avoid the 204B. Scaling to a lower resolution will cause either (depending on your graphics card or game's settings (sometimes even monitors have these settings)):

a) black bars on all four sides (centered output, perfect quality)
b) black bars on two sides (maintain aspect ratio scaling, lower quality but not as bad since it's the same aspect)
c) upscaled (low quality, jaggy edges, blurry, but full screen)

That said' there will be no lag with lower resolutions. There could be more motion blur because one pixel on a low res picture can be comprised of two to three on an upscaled higher-res one. That means the crystals will have to twist more. I doubt it will be noticeable though since that if two pixels are the same color, no transition will have to happen at all. If they are a similar color you probably wouldn't notice the ghosting associated with it.

With a 7800GT you should be able to play most of today's games at 1280x1024 with reasonable settings I'd think. With an LCD, best quality is gotten by using native resolution and turning down your game's settings versus raising your game's quality settings and using a lower resolution. IMO it's the opposite with a CRT. I try to stay away from scaling myself.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: qdogforeva
I bought a 215TW this weekend and took it back the next day.

I was coming from a Samsung 997 19" CRT and the 215TW was awesome in almost every respect...I was very impressed. But there was one thing that killed the deal for me.

When viewing shadows scenes in games (in particular) at a normal contrast/brightness level (not eye bleeding) I could not see very little detail. This was very obvious in games like Oblivion where shadows are quite visible. It made the grass in that game look TERRIBLE. The wierd thing is if I tilted my head just a bit to the left or the right I could see everything fine.

I did a little bit of research and it seems, according to one guy in some secluded forum, that all VA and TN panels exhibit this issue to some degree due to the manufacturing process. I suppose that the majority of people don't notice this type of issue, but there are those of us who are sticklers and would notice it. The guy called it some Zero Angle blah blah and it had to due with seeing all the color gradiants at a Zero Degree Angle on some panels. (The guy was at least referencing the 215TW directly in the post...)

I just thought that I would put the word out for those people who are sensitive to these types of things. This really kills the LCD market for me, I suppose....

Maybe this is where you read it (Rasmus's post): http://www.flatpanels.dk/flatforum/viewtopic.php?t=1098

Unfortunately that is the case with the TN and VA (Vertical Alignment) displays. S-IPS and AS-IPS types do not have the "Zero Angle" problem. It is not a manufacturing (i.e. fabrication) problem, it is just because of how the crystals are arranged. I do come across it somewhat on my P-MVA display and I suppose the issue should get more exposure. Unfortunately IPSes are hardly 'penetrating' the market yet.

I'll reply in that thread and double check that IPSes don't have the same problem, though I remember reading that they didn't. He only mentioned it as a con against the 215TW so I assume the NEC was fine in that regard.

Also my friend at tftcentral has some great info here on the panel types where he mentions this issue: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/panel_technologies.htm

 

[LoneWolf69]

Hello again xtknight,
I am really sorry to bother you again with this but I keep reading about people mentioning their video cards and this is one thing I forgot to take into consideration. I was wondering if you could tell me if I will be OK with the current video card which is in my laptop now if I get the LaCie 319 monitor. Again, I am just going to be using the monitor for image editing so I don't think I will be pushing it too hard. Anyway, I have a Dell Inspiron 9300 laptop and my paperwork shows I have a NVIDIA GeForce Go 6800 256Mb video card installed.

Thanks again!

 

[qdogforeva]

Yup...that's where I read it XTKnight. I've also read that IPS screens don't have that issue... There is always the NEC 20WMGX2 that has the IPS, but that thing is really expensive for the screen size. Feature wise, its pretty awesome...but wow... over $600 for a 20" screen just seems a bit pricey.

Edit: I really wish we could edit older messages here. My last post sounded like a 10 year old wrote it. I appologize for the grammar and spelling mistakes.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: LoneWolf69
Hello again xtknight,
I am really sorry to bother you again with this but I keep reading about people mentioning their video cards and this is one thing I forgot to take into consideration. I was wondering if you could tell me if I will be OK with the current video card which is in my laptop now if I get the LaCie 319 monitor. Again, I am just going to be using the monitor for image editing so I don't think I will be pushing it too hard. Anyway, I have a Dell Inspiron 9300 laptop and my paperwork shows I have a NVIDIA GeForce Go 6800 256Mb video card installed.

Thanks again!

Does your notebook have DVI out? In any case the 6800 is a great card for 2D (image editing) usage and even for some gaming. 2D quality doesn't vary much (if at all) these days with the newer cards.

 

[LoneWolf69]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: LoneWolf69
Hello again xtknight,
I am really sorry to bother you again with this but I keep reading about people mentioning their video cards and this is one thing I forgot to take into consideration. I was wondering if you could tell me if I will be OK with the current video card which is in my laptop now if I get the LaCie 319 monitor. Again, I am just going to be using the monitor for image editing so I don't think I will be pushing it too hard. Anyway, I have a Dell Inspiron 9300 laptop and my paperwork shows I have a NVIDIA GeForce Go 6800 256Mb video card installed.

Thanks again!

Does your notebook have DVI out? In any case the 6800 is a great card for 2D (image editing) usage and even for some gaming. 2D quality doesn't vary much (if at all) these days with the newer cards.

I am assuming I have DVI out but to be totally honest I am not sure. I have a blue plug in the back of my notebook which is a 15-pin plug and has a picture of a monitor. Is this DVI out? I am sure hoping it is and I guess it would be good for me to find out before I order this monitor. I also have another white 24-pin plug right next to this one which I am not sure what is used for. Please let me know if one of these are DVI outs and if they will work with this monitor.

Thanks again!

 

[eXecutioner28]

ok guys, let's got back for a second... let imagine the situation is that I am not able to buy 19" LCD, so I go for 17". What to buy then? one of BenQ's LCDs? maybe highly praised 71GX or 72E or 71E+. they all look so similar in specs.

btw is 91GX better than 91G+? and in what?

 

[The Green Bean]

Anybody heard of this; http://www.consumer.philips.com/consume...uster=KONPNSSKGZUEXJ0RMRESHP3HKFSEKI5P

Can't fint too many reviews and was wondering how good of a hybrid it is between a gaming and General usage LCD. I need to buy in 2 days.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: LoneWolf69
I am assuming I have DVI out but to be totally honest I am not sure. I have a blue plug in the back of my notebook which is a 15-pin plug and has a picture of a monitor. Is this DVI out? I am sure hoping it is and I guess it would be good for me to find out before I order this monitor. I also have another white 24-pin plug right next to this one which I am not sure what is used for. Please let me know if one of these are DVI outs and if they will work with this monitor.

Thanks again!

http://images.tomshardware.com/2005/11/23/pc_interfaces_101/vga_dvi1.jpg

At the left is a DVI-I (digital+analog) port and at the right is a VGA (analog port that's coming out of the DVI-I->VGA converter).

DVI-D (digital only) will look like this: http://www.atmarkit.co.jp/fsys/cableconnect/05disp_video/03dvi_d-box-l.jpg

The LaCie 319 has:

Connections : VGA (D-Sub 15 pin), DVI-I, DVI-D

So you will be just fine. You will be able to hook up your monitor digitally to your Inspiron notebook (providing you have verified that's a DVI-I or DVI-D port from the pictures).

 

[LoneWolf69]

http://images.tomshardware.com/2005/11/23/pc_interfaces_101/vga_dvi1.jpg

At the left is a DVI-I (digital+analog) port and at the right is a VGA (analog port that's coming out of the DVI-I->VGA converter).

DVI-D (digital only) will look like this: http://www.atmarkit.co.jp/fsys/cableconnect/05disp_video/03dvi_d-box-l.jpg

The LaCie 319 has:

Connections : VGA (D-Sub 15 pin), DVI-I, DVI-D

So you will be just fine. You will be able to hook up your monitor digitally to your Inspiron notebook (providing you have verified that's a DVI-I or DVI-D port from the pictures).[/quote]

Hey xtknight,
Thanks for the links. This is exactly what my connections look like so I should be fine.

Will let you know once I have everything and get it all calibrated.

Thanks again!

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: qdogforeva
Yup...that's where I read it XTKnight. I've also read that IPS screens don't have that issue... There is always the NEC 20WMGX2 that has the IPS, but that thing is really expensive for the screen size. Feature wise, its pretty awesome...but wow... over $600 for a 20" screen just seems a bit pricey.

Edit: I really wish we could edit older messages here. My last post sounded like a 10 year old wrote it. I appologize for the grammar and spelling mistakes.

I was right...the IPS panels don't have the problem. You have to decide whether you want a high-quality screen or a big one (yes, that's an or unfortunately). There are S-IPS panels in 23" and 30" form but if you don't want to pay $600 you're probably not going to want to pay $1000+ right? And I can't blame you.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
Anybody heard of this; http://www.consumer.philips.com/consume...uster=KONPNSSKGZUEXJ0RMRESHP3HKFSEKI5P

Can't fint too many reviews and was wondering how good of a hybrid it is between a gaming and General usage LCD. I need to buy in 2 days.

I'm not sure. I believe it has an LG TN panel but is there any reason you're getting that LCD over a ViewSonic VX922, BenQ FP93GX, ViewSonic VP930, or Samsung 940Be/BF?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: eXecutioner28
ok guys, let's got back for a second... let imagine the situation is that I am not able to buy 19" LCD, so I go for 17". What to buy then? one of BenQ's LCDs? maybe highly praised 71GX or 72E or 71E+. they all look so similar in specs.

btw is 91GX better than 91G+? and in what?

If BenQ's FP93GX is any indication, the FP71GX would be the obvious choice.

The 91GX (4 ms) has a lower response time than the 91G+ (8 ms) because it uses overdrive.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
Anybody heard of this; http://www.consumer.philips.com/consume...uster=KONPNSSKGZUEXJ0RMRESHP3HKFSEKI5P

Can't fint too many reviews and was wondering how good of a hybrid it is between a gaming and General usage LCD. I need to buy in 2 days.

I'm not sure. I believe it has an LG TN panel but is there any reason you're getting that LCD over a ViewSonic VX922, BenQ FP93GX, ViewSonic VP930, or Samsung 940Be/BF?

Its a bit cheaper. But I might buy a vx25wm since you don't buy monitors every few months. Im almost having to pay UK prices for monitors here in Pakistan

 

[KeithTalent]

Geez, I'm an idiot and just noticed this sticky here. I started a thread with my question, but the first post here says to post in this thread for help, so here goes.

Here is my original post from the other thread:

Ok, here are the two I am looking at:

1. Dell 2407FPW

Concerned about the possible banding issues on this one, but at least it is HDCP compliant.

2. BenQ FP241W

No HDCP compliance that I can see, but I like the 1080P HD support, so could double as my HDTV though with no HDCP who knows. Warranty is probably not as good as Dell's. $50 cheaper is nice.

This will mainly be for gaming in the new rig I am about to build which should be tough enough (I'm hoping) to handle the 1920x1200 native resolution, at least for a few moths anyway. May watch some movies on it as well.

So can anyone help me out here? I feel that the two are pretty evenly matched, but I just can't decide. Has anyone used the BenQ?

Thanks in advance guys!!

Edit: I saw one person on AVS Forums say the BenQ had HDCP, but I have been unable to confirm or deny this.