LCD Buyer's Guide

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: eXecutioner28
hey guys, I returned... still haven't been to capital city to look at LCDs, so another question. How does Hyundai 19' ImageQuest L90D+ stand? I saw it on an auction, so I might bid for it... how does he behave in games/movies?

The L90D+ is decent but lots of models were plagued with a vertical line of dead pixels problem. Why haven't you checked one of the other models yet though? Monitors are subjective so your best bet right now is to look at them.

Originally posted by: pencilcase
Hey, xtknight, do you have the white shadow problem on your VP930 too? I've just found this post of yours (dated 12/31/2005 06:34 PM) in which you write:

But do you see a white shadow around some of the black text like I do? Not sure what's going on here. It's particularly noticeable on light gray objects.

Might it be related to the dithering issue?

Yes I do slightly even in DVI mode. Monitors like the Dell 2407WFP had this problem too. But I do not notice it very much at all. It has all but vanished after semi-proper, rudimentary color calibration, and using ClearType (subpixel hinting). I remember on my 710t it was more prominent in VGA but that's just the way it goes. I can't say I notice any difference at all going from DVI to VGA on my VP930b after an 'auto-adjust'. Maybe I just have an unusually great analog signal from my video card. The 710t was noticeably worse in analog mode probably because of the 9500 PRO I had it hooked up to.

I don't think this is a product of dithering. Full black text (crystals completely ON in TN, off in VA/IPS) needn't be dithered and nor does a full white background. I have no clue what causes that. I was thinking it was just an illusion since the pixels are so close. Whatever the case, that is certainly the absolute least of my worries on this monitor. It has not bothered me one bit and I can't say I've noticed it in any reasonable amount for ages now.

Would it be possible for you to give the VP930 a shot? At least then we would know what the true problem is. Actually I'm still pretty sure it's just a weak signal from the video card. It's also possible that you're a lot more sensitive than me to something, but IMO I notice tons (white shadow, dithering, etc.) and I know LCD problems very well. I certainly know the feeling of bad VGA.

 

[imported_Psykosis]

Originally posted by: pencilcase
He said he believed the monitor was faulty and advised me to return it to my retailer for a refund.

Well, I got a similar reply from Samsung and from two Samsung's technicians that examined the photos I took. They all say that the problem was related to a faulty monitor even when that problem exist on almost all TN panels out there. If you are sure that a new monitor will not solve the problem, take the refund and start to investigate another brand/model.[/quote]

No one seems to know the real cause of the problem...

Yep, all solutions recomends to set the monitor "on the native resolution", "change the signal cable" and "rise the refresh rate", but after that, seems that everyone runs out of answers. Seems that almost all the problems are related to the adapter that converts the signal from DVI to VGA. (check THIS).
If you still want to try solve the problem, I can recomend you to start using the autocalibration tool, but changing the display settings. For example, raise or lower the refresh rate -> autocalibrate, then change resolution -> autocalibrate, to see if you can trigger the tool to the correct setting.

 

[pencilcase]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: pencilcase
Hey, xtknight, do you have the white shadow problem on your VP930 too? I've just found this post of yours (dated 12/31/2005 06:34 PM) in which you write:

But do you see a white shadow around some of the black text like I do? Not sure what's going on here. It's particularly noticeable on light gray objects.

Might it be related to the dithering issue?

Yes I do slightly even in DVI mode. Monitors like the Dell 2407WFP had this problem too. But I do not notice it very much at all. It has all but vanished after semi-proper, rudimentary color calibration, and using ClearType (subpixel hinting).

I did try ClearType for a while but found it impossible to get used to. It's true you don't notice any white shadow with ClearType, just a different sort of fuzziness.:laugh:

I remember on my 710t it was more prominent in VGA but that's just the way it goes. I can't say I notice any difference at all going from DVI to VGA on my VP930b after an 'auto-adjust'. Maybe I just have an unusually great analog signal from my video card. The 710t was noticeably worse in analog mode probably because of the 9500 PRO I had it hooked up to.

I don't think this is a product of dithering. Full black text (crystals completely ON in TN, off in VA/IPS) needn't be dithered and nor does a full white background. I have no clue what causes that. I was thinking it was just an illusion since the pixels are so close. Whatever the case, that is certainly the absolute least of my worries on this monitor. It has not bothered me one bit and I can't say I've noticed it in any reasonable amount for ages now.

That's interesting because for me it's just the reverse. About the only thing that really bothers me on the 770p is the way it displays text.

Would it be possible for you to give the VP930 a shot? At least then we would know what the true problem is. Actually I'm still pretty sure it's just a weak signal from the video card.

It's possible but that wouldn't explain why the Sony S95DRB or the Xerox XA7-17i didn't have this problem when hooked up to my video card.

I wish there was someplace nearby where I could actually see/try the VP930. Oh well, maybe I'll just have to learn to live with ClearType or put up with an inferior monitor that is at least able to display text I can bear to look at.

 

[pencilcase]

Originally posted by: Psykosis

No one seems to know the real cause of the problem...

Yep, all solutions recomends to set the monitor "on the native resolution", "change the signal cable" and "rise the refresh rate", but after that, seems that everyone runs out of answers. Seems that almost all the problems are related to the adapter that converts the signal from DVI to VGA. (check THIS).

Psykosis, thanks for the link, though the person in that thread was using a 5m extension cable, whereas I'm using a 2m cable (I've tried both the one that came with the monitor and a thicker Bandridge CL14402X).

If you still want to try solve the problem, I can recomend you to start using the autocalibration tool, but changing the display settings. For example, raise or lower the refresh rate -> autocalibrate, then change resolution -> autocalibrate, to see if you can trigger the tool to the correct setting.

Done that but unfortunately there was no improvement.

 

[eXecutioner28]

xtknight, I wanted to take a look at BenQ but evary week there are fewer models available, and they say they don't know when a shipment will come. So without BEnQ I dunno what to check out. DO I check Sony HS95DS, some LG or what... samsung 940BF and 930BF are too expensive...

 

[cyber56]

thanks again xtknight for the help. i'm gonna go with the viewsonic vx922.

You did a great job with this guide. i'm sure it has helped a lot a people searching for the right monitor for them.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: eXecutioner28
xtknight, I wanted to take a look at BenQ but evary week there are fewer models available, and they say they don't know when a shipment will come. So without BEnQ I dunno what to check out. DO I check Sony HS95DS, some LG or what... samsung 940BF and 930BF are too expensive...

Well LG makes some good monitors but the Sonys I saw yesterday were very disappointing. Unfortunately I don't know of a good LG model off the top of my head (that would fit you range). The LGs with the dynamic contrast (a bunch of models) looked great for general usage/gaming and probably good for movies. I'm so used to recommending Samsung, BenQ, NEC, and ViewSonic. It's a shame you can't get ahold of any of those due to stock or financial issues. Philips makes some good LCDs too (they are close to LG). And Acer is fairly close to BenQ.

Originally posted by: cyber56
thanks again xtknight for the help. i'm gonna go with the viewsonic vx922.

You did a great job with this guide. i'm sure it has helped a lot a people searching for the right monitor for them.

I'm glad it was helpful.

 

[olds]

Congrats to xtknight

 

[eXecutioner28]

I am biding in an auction for Hyundai L90D+ so I will see what's up with him, if I don't like it I can return it in one week time... so will see.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: oldsmoboat
Congrats to xtknight

Thanks to everyone in the forum issues thread who nominated me.

Originally posted by: eXecutioner28
I am biding in an auction for Hyundai L90D+ so I will see what's up with him, if I don't like it I can return it in one week time... so will see.

I have little doubt it's a decent monitor as long as you don't get the dead pixels problem.

 

[xtknight]

The panel for the upcoming 22" ViewSonic will likely be a HannStar TN ("normally white") panel that can support 16.7 million colors with the more advanced dithering.

http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/07/18/lcds_for_gateway_viewsonic/

Specs: HannStar HSD220MKW1-A (22"w)

 

[Budarow]

Hi peeps,

I'm pretty much a newb with respect to LCD monitors for PCs and need some easy answers so I can pick my boy up a LCD for his "modernized" bedroom (i.e., he's 8 years old now and ready to turn in all the kid toys for some "older boy" toys)

Anyway...thanks to this handy guide, it looks like the following monitor is a good choice for performance and price. The monitor will mostly be for movies and gaming.

20.1"NEC MultiSync 20WMGX2 1680x1050 (16:10)

I do seem to have 1 issue. My son's video card (see sign.) does not seem to support a resolution of 1680x1050 (the monitor's native resolution). EDIT...nVidia added support for 1680x1050 to their newest driver

I've read video card (with in the drivers for the video car itself?) resolutions can be "hacked" to include "custom" resolutions. Can some peeps comment on this issue? Is the process a "one time deal" or does it have to be done for each application (every time another game is loaded or another movie is started)?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Budarow

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Budarow
Hi peeps,

I'm pretty much a newb with respect to LCD monitors for PCs and need some easy answers so I can pick my boy up a LCD for his "modernized" bedroom (i.e., he's 8 years old now and ready to turn in all the kid toys for some "older boy" toys)

Anyway...thanks to this handy guide, it looks like the following monitor is a good choice for performance and price. The monitor will mostly be for movies and gaming.

20.1"NEC MultiSync 20WMGX2 1680x1050 (16:10)

If you can afford it, that's the best monitor money can buy if the glossy screen is suitable. Great response time, stunning color reproduction, and CRT viewing angles.

I do seem to have 1 issue. My son's video card (see sign.) does not seem to support a resolution of 1680x1050 (the monitor's native resolution). EDIT...nVidia added support for 1680x1050 to their newest driver

I've read video card (with in the drivers for the video car itself?) resolutions can be "hacked" to include "custom" resolutions. Can some peeps comment on this issue? Is the process a "one time deal" or does it have to be done for each application (every time another game is loaded or another movie is started)?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Budarow

If your son has a 7800GT then he should certainly be able to use 1680x1050. You shouldn't need to do any hacks, it should appear in the standard resolution enumeration (either under Windows's resolution slider or NVIDIA's resolution slider).

For games you may have to change to the config to support the extra Field of Vision (FOV) of the widescreen monitor. Otherwise you'd have to use black bars or have it scaled which reduces quality significantly. If you had to do either I'd go for the black bars. In the best case scenario the game would support the extra FOV with a little tweaking. This site has all you need to know and more on widescreen monitors: http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/

 

[rlorita]

I am a little confused because on the Australian Samsung site the 770p is clearly shown as being a TN type panel:

http://www.samsung.com/au/products/moni...rformance/770p.asp?page=Specifications

Type: a-si TFT/TN
Viewable Area: 17"
Pixel Pitch(mm): 0.264
Brightness (cd/m²): 280 cd/m2
Contrast Ratio: 1500:1
Viewing Angle: 178°/178°
Interface: Analog/ Digital
Response Time (ms): 6

It's not just a typo - the PDF datasheets contain the same information, and the 970p also shows this.

In addition to this, all retailer sites that I have seen sofar have the same information about this panel: they all claim it is TFT/TN. They obviously have copied this from the datasheets that Samsung provide.

It is only on Anandtech and other forums and review sites that I have seen claims that this monitor is PVA.

I agree that the characteristics seem to indicate it is using PVA, but if so, why would Samsung so consistently claim it is TN?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: rlorita
I am a little confused because on the Australian Samsung site the 770p is clearly shown as being a TN type panel:

http://www.samsung.com/au/products/moni...rformance/770p.asp?page=Specifications

Type: a-si TFT/TN
Viewable Area: 17"
Pixel Pitch(mm): 0.264
Brightness (cd/m²): 280 cd/m2
Contrast Ratio: 1500:1
Viewing Angle: 178°/178°
Interface: Analog/ Digital
Response Time (ms): 6

It's not just a typo - the PDF datasheets contain the same information, and the 970p also shows this.

In addition to this, all retailer sites that I have seen sofar have the same information about this panel: they all claim it is TFT/TN. They obviously have copied this from the datasheets that Samsung provide.

It is only on Anandtech and other forums and review sites that I have seen claims that this monitor is PVA.

I agree that the characteristics seem to indicate it is using PVA, but if so, why would Samsung so consistently claim it is TN?

I think it's a typo in multiple places. Samsung may have copied a datasheet of a TN monitor and changed specs as needed (but forgot to change the TN panel part). They've done this before where the monitor was clearly a PVA. The reviews make it clear it's a PVA monitor.

On Samsung USA's site, the 970P is PVA: http://www.samsung.com/Products/Monitor.../LS19VDPXHQXAA.asp?page=Specifications

Also you can notice the only panels whose specs match are PVA ones:
http://www.samsung.com/Products/TFTLCD/common/product_list.aspx?family_cd=LCD07

They recently upgraded the 19" PVA to 1500:1 contrast. Go by viewing angles though. Samsung is inconsistent on multiple counts.

The AU site also claims the 215TW is TN. No way. http://www.samsung.com/au/products/moni...vmonitor/215tw.asp?page=Specifications

I really doubt in AU they use TN panels and in other parts of Europe and the US they use PVA especially when they have the same specs.

 

[paulw86]

1899.99 CAD for a Westinghouse LVM-37w3
Is that overpriced?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: paulw86
1899.99 CAD for a Westinghouse LVM-37w3
Is that overpriced?

Not at all. That's $1,672.14 USD and that monitor is $1700 most places in the US.

 

[Malikhan]

Hello xtknight and thanks so much for this guide. It's definitely helped me swim through the murky waters of my next LCD purchase. I've been looking at 20.1 and 24 inch monitors.

For the 20.1" I've been looking at The NEC 20WMGX2 (but it costs as much as the 24" Dell)
The VX2025 or the revised (A02) Dell 2007WFP, also looking at the Acer AL2016W.

For 24" there isn't much choice really.
The Dell 2407WFP or the Acer AL2423Wdr


Couple other things.

• First, has anyone had a chance to try out the Dell 2407WFP with the new A02 revision with any gaming? I hear now that the revision is out (A02) the horrid banding is all but gone. Apologies if this was addressed already somewhere in the thread.

• Second has anyone had any experience with HannsG LCDs? They have some great prices and simple but lovely looking monitors. Like Spectre though I've never heard of them and am a little scared to try them.

Thanks again xtknight!

Cheers!

 

[josh6079]

Um.....k guys.........my VX2025WM didn't want to turn on today........

I switched it to VGA instead of DVI and it now turns on, but doesn't post at the native resolution like it used to. I do auto adjust and my picture is still off. I manually set it to 1680x1050 and still nothing. ????

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Malikhan
Hello xtknight and thanks so much for this guide. It's definitely helped me swim through the murky waters of my next LCD purchase. I've been looking at 20.1 and 24 inch monitors.

For the 20.1" I've been looking at The NEC 20WMGX2 (but it costs as much as the 24" Dell)
The VX2025 or the revised (A02) Dell 2007WFP.

For 24" there isn't much choice really.
The Dell 2407WFP or the Acer AL2423Wdr

It's hard to choose between the Dell and the VX2025WM. Some prefer the Dell but many love their VX2025WM. The 20WMGX2 is obviously better than both but comes at a premium.

I haven't heard about the Acer 24" myself. BenQ's 24" model was looking decent.

• First, has anyone had a chance to try out the Dell 2407WFP with the new A02 revision with any gaming? I hear now that the revision is out (A02) the horrid banding is all but gone. Apologies if this was addressed already somewhere in the thread.

I am pretty sure the banding is gone but I don't own one.

• Second has anyone had any experience with HannsG LCDs? They have some great prices and simple but lovely looking monitors. Like Spectre though I've never heard of them and am a little scared to try them.

I've heard good things about the Hanns G LCDs (they are manufactured by HannStar, a TFT panel company). I haven't recommended one yet though. Given the good comments, it may not be far off once I see a decent pro review of one.

Edit: Acer AL2016W I'm not sure about. I would stick with the ViewSonic, Dell, or NEC.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: josh6079
Um.....k guys.........my VX2025WM didn't want to turn on today........

I switched it to VGA instead of DVI and it now turns on, but doesn't post at the native resolution like it used to. I do auto adjust and my picture is still off. I manually set it to 1680x1050 and still nothing. ????

Maybe it's the infamous VX2025WM DVI problem. I may have to pull it off the recommendations. It's really disheartening they haven't fixed it yet. It seems plenty of people DON'T have the problem though and it was mentioned absolutely nowhere in any review that I've seen.

There's info and a possible fix here:
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1040780&highlight=dvi_recover

 

[josh6079]

Yeah, this kinda sucks. I would also suggest getting it off of the recomendation list since it won't work with DVI all of the time for most. This isn't going to make for a good comparison between it and my 20WMGX2. Why is my VGA problem with the resolution happening though? I can't use 1680x1050 with VGA.

 

[Malikhan]

Thanks for the fast response xtknight.
I guess my main concerns at this point are banding, lackluster colors, input lag (as subjective as that is) and Center scaling. I run most games in a window though so scaling I wouldn't imagine would be a huge issue.
This may sound odd but another thing on my mind is if a 24" isn't a bit of overkill at this point? I would only use it for the computer and only straight on viewing (hence wiewing angle is pointless to me). I usually have a lot of crap going on when I'm on the computer (lots of windows and programs running) and the extra real estate would be nice (I'm currently on an Acer Al1714cm-8ms).
Hmm, decisions decisions. 20.1 or 24?

Lastly, the VX2025. I've been reading over at the HardOCP forums and on the widescreengaming forums that the VW2025 has a center scaling problem? In other words... it doesn't. It stretches everything to native res. Seems everything has been tried from using the ATi/nVidia tools (which tend to blank the screen with an "out of range" message) to fiddling with the OCD. I guess there's no option in the OCD to do with. Any owners of the VX2025 here have this issue?

Cheers

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Malikhan
Thanks for the fast response xtknight.
I guess my main concerns at this point are banding, lackluster colors, input lag (as subjective as that is) and Center scaling. I run most games in a window though so scaling I wouldn't imagine would be a huge issue.
This may sound odd but another thing on my mind is if a 24" isn't a bit of overkill at this point? I would only use it for the computer and only straight on viewing (hence wiewing angle is pointless to me). I usually have a lot of crap going on when I'm on the computer (lots of windows and programs running) and the extra real estate would be nice (I'm currently on an Acer Al1714cm-8ms).
Hmm, decisions decisions. 20.1 or 24?

I would just get the NEC 20WMGX2. It will ease the stress on your video card vs. a 24". Plus, image quality is better on that screen than any 24".

Lastly, the VX2025. I've been reading over at the HardOCP forums and on the widescreengaming forums that the VW2025 has a center scaling problem? In other words... it doesn't. It stretches everything to native res. Seems everything has been tried from using the ATi/nVidia tools (which tend to blank the screen with an "out of range" message) to fiddling with the OCD. I guess there's no option in the OCD to do with. Any owners of the VX2025 here have this issue?

Cheers

It seems to have a DVI problem too (see above) so I've pulled it in favor of the Dell 2007WFP.

 

[Malikhan]

It's really a shame that such a nice monitor such as the VX2025 is soiled by a DVI oversight like this.

So what is the story on the twinkling effect with the NEC 20WGX² in movies?
Is this a serious issue? I know basiaclly what the twinkling effect is but I've yet to encounter it.