hardforums from my read are saying its on of the the first 8bit tn panels, and the dynamic contrast is defeatable so then you get like 700: contrast, which imho is still good. will check out today.
Originally posted by: xtknight
Originally posted by: michal1980
ok monitor gurus, what can you tell me about this
lg l204wt
It's a 6-bit TN (Chi Mei I believe?) with dynamic contrast adjustment features. I've heard quite good things about it. People say they noticed a difference going from a lower dynamic contrast model (1600:1, older one like LG L203wt I think) to a higher one (2000:1, LG L204wt).
Read up on some threads about it: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=lg+l204wt&btnG=Google+Search
One person even returned their 215TW once they got their LG L204wt. If you ask me, they're crazy, but it may indeed be good. It would be better in the response time category.
Originally posted by: michal1980
hardforums from my read are saying its on of the the first 8bit tn panels, and the dynamic contrast is defeatable so then you get like 700: contrast, which imho is still good. will check out today.
Originally posted by: FaFaFlunky
xtknight,
This topic is the best place on the net for LCD buying help! I have a few questions for you please.
1) I am scared of buying an LCD monitor online due to dead/stuck pixels. On the other hand, store prices (CompUSA: $349.99 for the VX922) just cannot compare to online store prices (ZipZoomFly: $264.95 for the VX922). Do you recommend an online store for buying an LCD monitor that will be easy to exchange if I have a dead/stuck pixel (shipping costs I can deal with)?
2) I currently have a Viewsonic 19" G90FB CRT. I am a programmer (my code editor is all dark colors) and I also use Excel/Word but I do want a LCD monitor that will NOT give me sub-par picture quality in games (BF2, QuakeWars soon) since I have a nVidia 6800.
Right now, my primary choice is the Viewsonic VX922 for its' 2ms but the review on TomsHardware shows it is just OK outside of gaming. So I'm also looking at the Viewsonic VP930B but I've read about yellow tints and bleeding. The Samsung 940BF has bleeding (according to newegg customer reviews) also.
So what do you recommend in a 19"?
Originally posted by: LukeAP
Are Dell still putting two different types of panel in 2007fp (not fpw) rev. A02?
I have a new 2007fp A02 at work, it is S-IPS and works great, no banding.
I'm thinking of buying one for myself, if I get an A02 am I gauranteed to get an S-IPS panel?
Luke
Originally posted by: JETninja
Looking at a couple more. I have a Bestbuy Rewards coupon that ends today, though besides that I'm in no hurry. Just looking for bang for buck that will work as I've said before for pretty heavy gaming and general everyday usage. Looking more now to replace my '99 Dell 19" Trinitron. It seems to be slowly losing brightness, though is still very good.
Today BestBuy has the Samsung 204B 20.1" for $299. I was also looking at the 931BF 19" (same price)
The 931BF has way higher contrast and is a tad faster, but the specs on the 204B are still quite good.
Any thoughts on either?
They also have today on sale the LG 19" L1932Tq (1280x1024, 4ms, 1400:1) $259
and the 19" LG L1970HR (1280x1024, 2ms, 1600:1, adjustable height!) $309
Originally posted by: xtknight
The NEC 90GX2 sounds like it would be good for you then. It's very fast, and the picture quality is probably superior to that of other TNs. NEC has good quality control. The VP930b is good (I own one) but the horizontal viewing angles do tint yellow sooner than a TN (at subtle angle changes). The speed of the VP930b is 'good' in an absolute measurement of all the LCDs of today. Back a few months ago, it was 'supreme'. Anyhow, the NEC sounds like the best choice for you.
Thank you for your quick response xtknight. I really respect your opinion but when I read the review for the 90GX2 on tomshardware.com, I don't think I can see me buying it. However, you say in your guide the review on tomshardware.com for the 90GX2 is misleading...could you please explain what you mean?
The more NewEgg.com customer reviews I read about the VX922, the more it seems to be a safer choice. The 90GX2 seems to have a coating on the screen that makes it susceptible to glaring. The 940BF seems to have bleeding problems which will tick me off easily. The VP930B has problems too. I think I know now that no LCD monitor is perfect but do you have any other suggestions I should think about...like what you think of the VX922?
By the way, I know about native resolution (5:4 ratio) and the consequences of lowering the resolution (stretched graphics). Will a custom 5:4 ratio resolution lower than 1280x1024 work with an nVidia 6800 card? I just don't want to have to squint to read text.
Thanks again for your expert help!
Originally posted by: xtknight
Originally posted by: JETninja
Looking at a couple more. I have a Bestbuy Rewards coupon that ends today, though besides that I'm in no hurry. Just looking for bang for buck that will work as I've said before for pretty heavy gaming and general everyday usage. Looking more now to replace my '99 Dell 19" Trinitron. It seems to be slowly losing brightness, though is still very good.
Today BestBuy has the Samsung 204B 20.1" for $299. I was also looking at the 931BF 19" (same price)
The 931BF has way higher contrast and is a tad faster, but the specs on the 204B are still quite good.
Any thoughts on either?
The Samsung 204B isn't that impressive (mediocre response time for being a TN). I'm not sure about the 931BF. Some of the BFs (like the 930BF) have pretty high RTC error (response time problems). Others like the 940BF are great.
They also have today on sale the LG 19" L1932Tq (1280x1024, 4ms, 1400:1) $259
and the 19" LG L1970HR (1280x1024, 2ms, 1600:1, adjustable height!) $309
I would get the LG L1970HR. I've heard great things about the high-contrast LG TNs. I've also heard there was noticeable difference between the 2000:1, 1600:1, and 1400:1 models.
Originally posted by: FaFaFlunky
Originally posted by: xtknight
The NEC 90GX2 sounds like it would be good for you then. It's very fast, and the picture quality is probably superior to that of other TNs. NEC has good quality control. The VP930b is good (I own one) but the horizontal viewing angles do tint yellow sooner than a TN (at subtle angle changes). The speed of the VP930b is 'good' in an absolute measurement of all the LCDs of today. Back a few months ago, it was 'supreme'. Anyhow, the NEC sounds like the best choice for you.
Thank you for your quick response xtknight. I really respect your opinion but when I read the review for the 90GX2 on tomshardware.com, I don't think I can see me buying it. However, you say in your guide the review on tomshardware.com for the 90GX2 is misleading...could you please explain what you mean?
The more NewEgg.com customer reviews I read about the VX922, the more it seems to be a safer choice. The 90GX2 seems to have a coating on the screen that makes it susceptible to glaring. The 940BF seems to have bleeding problems which will tick me off easily. The VP930B has problems too. I think I know now that no LCD monitor is perfect but do you have any other suggestions I should think about...like what you think of the VX922?
By the way, I know about native resolution (5:4 ratio) and the consequences of lowering the resolution (stretched graphics). Will a custom 5:4 ratio resolution lower than 1280x1024 work with an nVidia 6800 card? I just don't want to have to squint to read text.
Thanks again for your expert help!
Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
Just curious as to why the 19? NEC MultiSync 90GX2 didn't make the cut for recommended monitors.
I went to a Micro Center today to once again compare monitors, and did a side by side comparison to the 90GX2 and Viewsonic VX922. The Viewsonic I believe as a faster response time, but the color clarity and intensity on the 90GX2 was astonishing despite the glare of its Opticlear coating.
On checking each company's website, the Viewsonic comes in at 2ms and the NEC at 4ms.
Originally posted by: darXoul
Originally posted by: xtknight
Tom's Hardware Guide measured the response time and it was definitely subpar: http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/03/27/...spring_2006_lcd_collection/page19.html
Compare that to the VX922's graph: http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/03/27/...spring_2006_lcd_collection/page35.html
They didn't like other aspects of the 90GX2 either. I was hoping it would be as good as their 20WMGX2 but it certainly fell short.
That's a premature and hasty conclusion. The 90GX2 is considered by far the best gaming display in Europe, most people who tried the NEC and VX922 or 930BF claim the NEC is by miles superior. The graphs on THG don't mean squat, to be honest. The VX924 scored very poorly in this test but side by side, it certainly ain't slower than the VX922 - which was measured as the quickest monitor ever produced.
Be careful with these graphs, on lesnumeriques you can clearly see that the 90GX2 is as good as VX922. I've read countless user reports, e.g. on prad.de. They all claim the NEC is on par with both ViewSonics, with better color, decent angles for a TN display and pretty good blacks. I can confirm this because my friend bought the 70GX2 last week, and actually I was amazed at how good a TN panel could look.
A few users even claim that 90GX2 exhibits a LESS pronounced motion blur than both 20WGX2 and VX922. According to them, all three show virtually no ghosting (though the slower bwb transition may hamper the 20WGX2 in some situations) but the 90GX2 shows a pretty sharp image even in high speed games, on the contrary to the other displays. This I have yet to verify but it looks like this monitor can't simply "suck" like Zebo said. Yes, it's TN, but according to many, it's the best TN out there.
BTW, I wonder why its color is listed everywhere @ 16.77M. It's a TN, it should be 16.2. The 70GX2 is listed @ 16.2M.
Originally posted by: xtknight
Originally posted by: darXoul
The VX924 scored very poorly in this test but side by side, it certainly ain't slower than the VX922 - which was measured as the quickest monitor ever produced.
Weren't there two revisions of the VX924 though?
Be careful with these graphs, on lesnumeriques you can clearly see that the 90GX2 is as good as VX922. I've read countless user reports, e.g. on prad.de. They all claim the NEC is on par with both ViewSonics, with better color, decent angles for a TN display and pretty good blacks. I can confirm this because my friend bought the 70GX2 last week, and actually I was amazed at how good a TN panel could look.
You're right...I suppose even if the graph were true the 90GX2 would still be a good gaming monitor. The VP191b has a steep response curve for the lower tones but for the rest I find it (my VP930b actually) great for gaming, can't even notice the ghosting. The VX922 just looked like it was a lot faster and I usually trust THG. ViewSonics have lots of backlight issues which irks me so I'll add the 90GX2 above it. I'll keep the VX922 in case people don't like the contrast coating/price of the 90GX2. I did find it hard to believe a 19" NEC with the same suffix would be crap while the 20" one was the best thing on the planet.
BTW, I wonder why its color is listed everywhere @ 16.77M. It's a TN, it should be 16.2. The 70GX2 is listed @ 16.2M.
So I'm told, the new dithering interpolates to 9-bit and makes up for the last few missing dark tones. End effect is 16.77m colors (full 8-bit scale).
Originally posted by: darXoul
Another part of my "hunt for perfect monitor" soap opera.
Act I:
I went to a store selling used CRTs. Among tons of different monitors, most of them looking just horrible compared to my 109P4 (which looks like a brand new monitor after two and a half years of use), one managed to draw my attention. Dell P1130. 21", all black, with Sony Trinitron tube. Almost flawless physically, just one minor scratch on the anti glare coating, in the upper left corner. A bit annoying but I could live with it. Turned it on. Still looking great. Vibrant colors, very bright, deep black, sharp picture... not quite. Off center, text looked very blurry, and the monitor's convergce was just poor in corners. Tried to correct it. Nope. Convergence better but text still blurry as hell. Unfortunately, it was the only black P1130. Crap Such a nice looking monitor, not even THAT huge or deep. The text blurriness was a deal breaker. My 109P4 might not be LCD-perfect in corners but it's still pretty sharp. On the Dell, just off-center text was already crap. If all used CRTs look like that, I say no, thanks.
Act II:
I went to my friend who has a NEC 90GX2.
First impressions:
- looks very good, like a real classy, high quality display;
- the glossy panel is not really bothersome when the monitor is turned on - if someone plays darker games or watches movies in a dimly lit or dark room, it is just fine;
- colors are nice and crisp - no apparent banding visible either;
- viewing angle is surprisingly good for a TN display - horizontally, the picture does get a slight yellowish hue and a washed out look but it's not bad; vertically, typical TN stuff (milky-pale up, dark down) but unless someone wants/needs to look at the screen from crazy angles or watch movies with current and former girlfriend, her new guy and his dog, the angles are absolutely OK for a single user - I expected worse;
- no dead pixels, no screen door effect, backlight very good - at max brightness, a slightly brighter stripe visible along the upper edge and a slightly more illuminated lower left corner, but even then, it's barely annoying - at brightness turned down, backlight was very good, and blacks quite nice too (washed out at max brightness, but that's understandable);
- the 5:4 format looks a bit squarish first but it's really large so it's hardly annoying;
- scaling was good on this monitor - text was crap as usual but games looked fine, especially with AA on - even though I don't plan to interpolate, the display handles this aspect of its functionality quite well.
Movie tests:
Fellowship of the Ring / Attack of the Clones - very fast, no ghosting or apparent blur, good colors, staisfying blacks. Some skin tones a bit more "artificial" than on my CRT but my friend uses the out-of-the-box settings so it could improve. Some "square building"/video noise effect clearly visible and even annoying in scenes like e.g. Aragorn contemplating in Rivendell (dark, gloomy scene). Horrible, I thought. Then I came home and noticed some image compression artifacts on my CRT as well, when I looked with a more critical eye. Also, lower brightness reduced the unpleasant effects quite a bit. Overall, I wasn't impressed but it was better than I had expected. Again.
Game tests:
GTA San Andreas - a pretty demanding title for LCDs. In the first cutscene (CJ at the airport) I thought I noticed some yellow ghosting but then, the monitor performed great. I ran around, blasted some fools, drove a few rides and I must say, it was very good and convincing. No problems with blurring, no ghosting visible even when driving real fast. To be honest, I was amazed.
FIFA 06 - difficult game for LCDs with fast camera swings during long through balls, some "x on green" color combinations tend to ghost, just like balls shot from outside the box. Well, it was quite stellar again. No problems whatsoever. Camera swings, powerful shots, long passes. You name it, the LCD does it. Very satisfying experience, way better than expected. Sure it does look a tiny bit different than on CRT but that's due to some faint blur seen on every single LCD. I was afraid of this blur, and it turned out harmless and barely noticeable. If you specifically look for it, it's possible to grasp. Otherwise, you won't even notice it playing.
Freelancer - another hard game for LCDs. Action in space is fast, and there are many dark-bright-dark transitions (stars and shots vs. space). If you want to read your opponent's name displayed at his ship during fast chases and dogfights, it's more difficult than on a CRT for sure. The blur isn't bad though, and the game on the whole looks just great. Blacks were deep enough and ghosting was imperceptible. At this point I was confident that G for gaming was a good name for this monitor. Apparently, it handled whatever I threw at it. BTW, no input lag whatsoever in any game.
Painkiller - last but not least, the Polish succesful FPS that Fatal1ty dominated as well, winning the most important tournament and highest prize vs. Vo0 in the finals. The game is a hardcore, old school, "no bullshit" shooter. No strafe/circle jumps like in Q3 CPMA but very fast and with flight control. To show off my sk1llz a bit I took a few "laps" around the first level (cemetary). Let me tell you - performance was again flawless. No ghosting, no blur. I couldn't test the stake gun (sort of closer range rail) to see the real aiming efficiency, but I can say that I'm convinced it would be good because playing with someone else's keyboard and mouse, and on LCD (OMG!), game movement and aim were both absolutely fine.
So, lengthy, but that's it. Is it a perfect monitor? Nope. Viewing angles are OK but could be better for ultimate allround, CRT-like use. The same with blacks. But hey, it's an LCD. Movie playback was a little disappointing with quite a bit of noise especially in darker scenes with uniform backgrounds but adjusted settings can really minimize it. For gaming, it's just awesome for an LCD and damn close to CRT. This is coming from a CRT guy who has never owned a real LCD apart from his laptop and cellphone and saw quite a few LCDs in games (193P+, 2405FPW, 2005FPW, 204B, 960BF, VX924 - saw it this week: good speed but colors, blacks and viewing angles suck, VP930B and a few others) and was pretty disappointed on the whole.
This monitor shouldn't disappoint gamers. Unless you are a purist expecting 125 fps and perfect image sharpness when at speed 700 in Q3 CPMA, you shouldn't be afraid of the 70/90GX2 for gaming. It's 100% gaming-certified by darXoul aka Darius-PvP in Diablo2 aka dx>drizzt in Q3 CPMA
Unless a miracle happens and a sharply focused Dell P1130 CRT lands on my desk, I'm getting the 90GX2. It's that good. I just need to test a few more movie scenes to make sure the digital "squarification" won't kill my watching pleasure. I doubt it though. Therefore, an excellent gaming monitor usable also as an allrounder - this is my preliminary verdict.
Originally posted by: ChuckUFarley
I was leaning to the VX922, you guys nearly have me sold on the 90GX2, but I just can't come to a substantial conclusion.
Is there an LG equivalent (lower cost and less feature rich) than the 20WMGX2. It's overkill with extras making the price more than I'd really like to go. But the rest sounds great on that monitor.
Finally does the 90GX2 have HDCP? Googling has turned up neither a yeah or a neigh on that.
I don't believe so, but I'm not sure either. Do you really think you'll be watching movies on a 19" screen though?
Originally posted by: ChuckUFarley
Oh, also, another review I read that was generally positive for the NEC 20wmgx2 said they could find no way to set it for 4:3 aspect ratio with DVI input.
Were they just clueless or is it true?
Originally posted by: damocles
Any feedback on any of the Philips 19" monitors? They don't seem to appear in US reviews very often.
Where I live they are the most common 'name brand' monitor and have the best warranties. I'm wondering if any of them are good for gaming (*ms or better @1280x1024) with nice 8 bit colour.
Originally posted by: t4t3r
any feedback on the samsung 205bw? 20" widescreen with a TN panel i believe. some people say they like the tn panels and others are totally against them. this monitor is on sale at office max right now though, and i'm still in search of a nice widescreen monitor after my trouble with the vx2025wm.