LCD Buyer's Guide

[Raloth]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: Raloth
I've been looking around for a 20" widescreen monitor. Originally I was set on the Viewsonic vx2025wm, but a few more options have opened up for me lately. The Samsung 205bw also looks attractive but I can't find out whether it's true 8-bit or if it uses 6-bit and dithering.

The Samsung 205BW is a TN that uses 6-bit/FRC to reach 16.7M colors.

The LG L204WT has also popped up, but I don't know much about it. Normally the 4:3 20" panels are out of my price range, but the Samsung 204b also looks like it might fit my needs and has the advantage of not needing letterboxing on certain games.

The LG L204WT is a great monitor for the price. It is 6-bit/TN but it has the dynamic contrast feature which I love for multimedia. There really isn't an 8-bit under $300. You could try the ViewSonic VX2025WM. It's OK, but it wouldn't have the dark blacks you mention below. High gamma as well, so midtone colors would be off and overbright unless you calibrated it (this does affect vibrancy, not just accuracy). I've always found the ViewSonics' interface annoying too. That's just my opinion on things. Tons and tons of people love the VX2025WM. I'm just not that crazy about it. The price on it is great, and that's the overriding/deciding factor for many. I've always been the type to pay a lot on something to make sure I'll like it.

...message cropped...

If picking up from a store is a must, get the LG L204WT. I think most people would like it better than the VX2025WM despite being 6-bit. If you can't find that, go for the LG L203WTX or LG L203WT. Do they let you check for dead pixels in the store? That idea hasn't crossed my mind. Keep in mind, Dell has an awesome return policy (return for any reason within 21 days), so if you do get a dead pixel you can go through that and hopefully get a flawless one. The whole process is rather painless with prepaid return and their fast shipping. But it's up to you.

I took a look at these in store today and was a little surprised. The Viewsonic was rather washed out compared to the Samsung, but I couldn't really tell much else because they were all just hooked up to a dvd player with piss poor resolution . I got a closer look at the LG and decided it wasn't for me. The backlighting seemed very uneven, and when I looked at it head on the top was noticibly darker from viewing angle problems. I took a trip over to the local Dell kiosk...and wow, I love the 2007WFP. I would have bought it on the spot had they actually had one for sale. Now I'm having some second doubts. I can drop the $400 on one monitor, or I could get two $200 19" screens and have quite a bit more desk space. Has anyone had a similar conundrum?

 

[Raptor45]

Do you want to play games or movies? If so go with the Dell instead of the two. Having a big gap right in the middle will certainly make things tough especially in FPSs, and personally I'd rather not have DVDs split up. So you'd probably want to do those things on a single 19", losing half the space. If its purely for desktop work, then the choice is yours.

 

[Ichigo]

http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/wiki/index.php?title=Samsung_215TW

It mentions that the 215TW does NOT have internal scaling, which I believed the Dell's do right? The whole "place black borders around a full-screen image smaller than the resolution of the monitor" thing? You mentioned it did, so can I get some feedback confirming either?

EDIT: Read some opinions that mention that if I connect say a 360 to the monitor, as games are 16:9, that the monitor stretches the image instead of applying the slight letterbox effect. I don't know if this was through component or the VGA cable, but I'd like to know about this as well.

 

[lepump]

Any other differences than size and resolution ?? (and price obviously
'Dell 2407WFP' vs 'Samsung 215TW' ?

*edit*
..I'm also looking at the Samsung 244T...
Is there any reason to go 24''?
Considering it costs twice as much..

naaah.. nevermind, I'm getting a Samsung 215TW
LCD here I come!

 

[Captk]

I am looking for my first LCD, 19". The more I read the more confused I get. I use my system for gaming 3/4 of the time, mostly FPS games. I thougth the Samsung 940BX was the ticket, any thought about this monitor, contrast 1000:1, response time 5ms. Very little info available about it. Any other recommendations for a 19" LCD.
Ken

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Raloth
I took a look at these in store today and was a little surprised. The Viewsonic was rather washed out compared to the Samsung, but I couldn't really tell much else because they were all just hooked up to a dvd player with piss poor resolution . I got a closer look at the LG and decided it wasn't for me. The backlighting seemed very uneven, and when I looked at it head on the top was noticibly darker from viewing angle problems. I took a trip over to the local Dell kiosk...and wow, I love the 2007WFP. I would have bought it on the spot had they actually had one for sale. Now I'm having some second doubts. I can drop the $400 on one monitor, or I could get two $200 19" screens and have quite a bit more desk space. Has anyone had a similar conundrum?

I'd definitely get a quality $400 screen rather than settle for two mediocre ones instead.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Ichigo
http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/wiki/index.php?title=Samsung_215TW

It mentions that the 215TW does NOT have internal scaling, which I believed the Dell's do right? The whole "place black borders around a full-screen image smaller than the resolution of the monitor" thing? You mentioned it did, so can I get some feedback confirming either?

Well, prad.de listed it as having "interpolation settings" but I'm not sure if it has the centered mode you mention. I'm not seeing it in the 215TW pdf manual. All I see is "wide" and "4:3". If you have an NVIDIA card, you can. This is only an issue with ATI cards since they delegate scaling to the monitor.

For the 2007WFP:

Dell? guarantees image size and centering for all preset modes listed in the following table.

Preset Display Modes
Display Mode Horizontal Frequency (kHz) Vertical Frequency (Hz) Pixel Clock (MHz) Sync Polarity (Horizontal/Vertical)
VGA, 720 x 400 31.5 70.1 28.3 -/+
VGA, 640 x 480 31.5 59.9 25.2 -/-
VESA, 640 x 480 37.5 75.0 31.5 -/-
VESA, 800 x 600 37.9 60.3 40.0 +/+
VESA, 800 x 600 46.9 75.0 49.5 +/+
VESA, 1024 x 768 48.4 60.0 65.0 -/-
VESA, 1024 x 768 60.0 75.0 78.8 +/+
VESA, 1152 x 864 67.5 75.0 108.0 +/+
VESA, 1280 x 1024 64.0 60.0 108.0 +/+
VESA, 1280 x 1024 80.0 75.0 135.0 +/+
VESA, 1680 x 1050 (Digital) 64.6 59.9 119 -/+
VESA, 1680 x 1050 (Analog) 65.3 60.0 146.25 -/+

EDIT: Read some opinions that mention that if I connect say a 360 to the monitor, as games are 16:9, that the monitor stretches the image instead of applying the slight letterbox effect. I don't know if this was through component or the VGA cable, but I'd like to know about this as well.

It probably depends if you have it set on Wide or 4:3. I'm not really sure.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Captk
I am looking for my first LCD, 19". The more I read the more confused I get. I use my system for gaming 3/4 of the time, mostly FPS games. I thougth the Samsung 940BX was the ticket, any thought about this monitor, contrast 1000:1, response time 5ms. Very little info available about it. Any other recommendations for a 19" LCD.
Ken

I had someone who was willing to try the 940BX and haven't heard back from him yet so I'd recommend the 940BF to you for now.

 

[lepump]

anyone care to educate me on 'led backlighting'??
http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-ent...it-lcd-tv-coming-next-month-192637.php


*edit*
Did read this on page1
"Note: This is if you work professionally as a graphics designer, have a huge budget, and need picture-perfect colors. You do not need these by any means for casual off-and-on photo editing! For affordable consumer photo editing, look for other S-IPS/S-PVA panel LCDs. "

was wondering when these panels will be in the "I can afford one" pricerange..?
And how much better are they in use?

 

[tw33ter]

What's the difference between the 940bf and bx? I'll give it a shot since you were spot on with recommending me the 970p last year and it's awesome

How do you like your NEC 20WMGX2? I dunno whether I want to get a widescreen or not to replace my aging viewsonic va720. I dont mind spending more for a quality monitor if i have to.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: lepump
anyone care to educate me on 'led backlighting'??
http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-ent...it-lcd-tv-coming-next-month-192637.php


*edit*
Did read this on page1
"Note: This is if you work professionally as a graphics designer, have a huge budget, and need picture-perfect colors. You do not need these by any means for casual off-and-on photo editing! For affordable consumer photo editing, look for other S-IPS/S-PVA panel LCDs. "

was wondering when these panels will be in the "I can afford one" pricerange..?
And how much better are they in use?

The article you linked mentions by 2010 "most" LCD monitors will have LED backlights. That probably means they will debut in high-end (~$800) LCDs by Mid 2008.

The LED backlights provide a pure white light (well, pure 6500K daylight/sun) that can be perfectly split like a prism. Current cold cathode fluorescent lights (CCFLs) have a green tinge and the light can not be separated that well (classic CCFLs achieve 72% NTSC gamut, ones coming very soon produce 97%). LED backlight units (BLUs) can do >100% NTSC/EBU/sRGB/Adobe RGB. And they reach 10000 nits (ow my eyes). Just imagine the lushest green possible but at the same time one powered by an overwhelming intensity. 100 times more saturated than a CRT. Just kidding, obviously they won't be using these 10000-nit ones but I'm sure they can use it to their advantage in some form.

Supposedly the LED backlights will allow backlight blinking to reduce motion artifacts too, with no brightness/lifetime loss. Not sure how CCFLs fare with that tech. More: http://www.lumileds.com/pdfs/TP39_US_FPD_2004.PDF

You can do so much with the LEDs too. Uniformity is increased, and you can have pure red/green/blue ones! Imagine the possibilities for color there. True color temperature adjustment. This is present in the NEC LCD2180WG-LED now, but it is $6000.

I posted an article about the upcoming new CCFLs (not LEDs) which remains on the front page at the moment: http://www.lcdresource.com/

Let me just tell you, we have a lot to look forward to. 10-bit color using advanced FRC with true 8-bit (nearly imperceptible dithering this time), better backlight stability, and insane color saturation. Also, through light compensation, we will get a truer black level and much better dark tones/saturation: a huge step forward for LCDs. The good news is this is all available now. We just have to wait for the price to come down. Once the price on the LED backlights themselves is acceptable, we can expect them to usher in the rest of these new advancements.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: tw33ter
What's the difference between the 940bf and bx? I'll give it a shot since you were spot on with recommending me the 970p last year and it's awesome

Cool! The BX has a higher contrast and more ergonomic features. Response time should more or less be the same, but I can't confirm that one. I'm betting it's (worst case scenario) under 15 ms in reality which is pretty good. The 940BF hits 7 ms max though. I won't truly know which one's faster until they're tested.

How do you like your NEC 20WMGX2? I dunno whether I want to get a widescreen or not to replace my aging viewsonic va720. I dont mind spending more for a quality monitor if i have to.

I love it. The picture never ceases to amaze me everytime I pull up some HD video. IMO: widescreen is the obvious choice for anybody and everybody. It feels more natural than the squares (5:4/4:3/ish) I've been using. This monitor is two times better than some that cost $500, yet it only costs $630. All the multimedia functionality is just awesome too. Words can never perfectly put a qualitative aspect like color into a quantitative one. You will just have to see for yourself.

 

[Captk]

I just checked out the reviews on NewEgg for the 940BX and they look very good. I really would like to get the BX instead of the BF for the added features and the 1000:1 contrast. I'll think on it a little more but think I will order the 940BX. By the way, on Pagecomputer they list a 940BX and 940BX-TAA. What does the TAA stand for? they also list this monitor as targeted for govt purchasing?
Also found LG L1932TQ for $250, 1400:1, 4 MS response, is this any good? BTW, I am using a 17" Nokia 447ZA CRT and am hoping for less eye fatigue with good game playing capabilities from my new monitor.
Thanks, Ken

 

[vangle7]

Like others I'm interested in the 940BX as an alternative to the VP930b or the 19 inch LG equivalent. It seems like these are the top when it comes to contrast ratio for a 19inch. What do you guys think is probably the best? I need it for just reading text. I don't think that samsung one has portait mode though and I think that would be nice.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Captk
I just checked out the reviews on NewEgg for the 940BX and they look very good. I really would like to get the BX instead of the BF for the added features and the 1000:1 contrast.

I'm very curious and eager to put it on the recommendations list. The main thing I'm worried about is response time. Many of Samsung's monitors (the *60BFs and *30BFs) had some aggressive and overdone overdrive features causing odd artifacts. That's the main reason I'm holding off until Tom's or X-Bit (or someone else that knows ) reviews it. My mom is planning to get an LCD at work and if I have any say in it she'll be getting the 940BX. I know the overdrive can't be that bad (certainly not for text work). Hopefully I can find a way to play around with it some. There's an 85% chance it's perfectly fine and has a great controlled overdrive like Samsung's recent monitors. I just want to verify that before recommending it wide-scale for gaming. It is touted as a business monitor, and I'm curious as to why they aren't pushing it as a gaming one with such a low response time rating.

I'll think on it a little more but think I will order the 940BX. By the way, on Pagecomputer they list a 940BX and 940BX-TAA. What does the TAA stand for? they also list this monitor as targeted for govt purchasing?

I believe TAA is Trade Agreements Act, meaning the monitor was manufactured in "designated countries". I don't know though. That's what the Planar TAA-compliant LCD site says: http://www.planar.com/environments/business/gsa/GSA.cfm Maybe that's required for government purchases.

Also found LG L1932TQ for $250, 1400:1, 4 MS response, is this any good? BTW, I am using a 17" Nokia 447ZA CRT and am hoping for less eye fatigue with good game playing capabilities from my new monitor.
Thanks, Ken

I haven't heard of that LG model or seen any reviews on it. I'd wait until we know more about the 940BX.

 

[tokamak]

hey guys I'm looking for a new 1680x1050 monitor but don't know anything about them and am having a hard time digesting all this information.

I don't play many fast games (only stuff like SimCity 4 and Civ4). The main uses will be web browsing, papers, etc - maybe the occasional DVD. I want a nice sharp picture and vibrant colors. Don't need any bells and whistles as far as inputs go. I'll just be using a good old-fashioned VGA cable from my laptop, and that's it. Price is a strong consideration - I'd like to keep it to about $300 or less if possible. Only lcd I've ever owned was a Samsung 150MP which I considered to be excellent.

Any help appreciated.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: vangle7
Like others I'm interested in the 940BX as an alternative to the VP930b or the 19 inch LG equivalent. It seems like these are the top when it comes to contrast ratio for a 19inch. What do you guys think is probably the best? I need it for just reading text. I don't think that samsung one has portait mode though and I think that would be nice.

The 940BX is one that does have portrait mode (pivot). I just noticed the 1000:1 rating on the Samsung seems to be the result of dynamic contrast. I hope it's implemented well. Having owned the VP930b I've found overall image quality disappointing compared to other Samsung 19" monitors I've seen at the stores. It got lots of rave reviews but I beg to differ. I don't doubt the 940BX will be great for text work and such. It sounds like the perfect monitor for doing that given all its ergonomics.

 

[imported_browsing]

Also interested in the LG L1932TQ, if that gives incentive to find info/reviews on it.

 

[tw33ter]

How decent is the tv tuner on the NEC 20WMGX2?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: tw33ter
How decent is the tv tuner on the NEC 20WMGX2?

It's OK, but on a screen like this, analog TV just doesn't look that great. Smudgy and blurry/fuzzy. I notice no difference when turning on "film mode", adjusting 3D Y/C, or when using noise reduction so that's kind of weird. It lets you autoscan AIR/STD/HRC/IRC and manually set the frequency for a channel (fine tune). Since PIP is such a small window, analog TV looks great there.

 

[Ichigo]

The NEC doesn't pivot does it? T-T

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Ichigo
The NEC doesn't pivot does it? T-T

Nope, no height adjustment either.

 

[lepump]

Any intel on samsung+vista 22'' monitor?
http://www.engadget.com/2006/07/27/samsungs-new-22-inch-widescreen-lcd/
http://www.engadget.com/2006/06/29/micr...with-samsung-on-22-inch-lcd-for-vista/

same as 215TW but 1'' more and faster response time?

 

[eeric]

hi everyone, first of all a big thanks to xtknight and all for this thread, its an awesome resource.

anyways, i'm currently in the process of replacing my aging samsung 19" 955df crt, and i'm considering the Viewsonic VX2025WM 20.1" widescreen. it might just be me, but i thought it was one of the recommended monitors in the first post a while ago, but its no where to be found now.

considering its price (~$350 CDN, i live in toronto) and reviews it seems like a good choice, but is there something i don't know about this lcd that should keep me away? the only thing i've read is that it doesn't 1:1 pixel scaling for traditional aspect ratios, and the general viewsonic problems ("high gamma/washout effect"). I plan to use it for general use (work, study, movies) as well as gaming (lots of WoW, FPshooters now and then). any comments or help would be greatly appreciated. thanks in advance.

btw this is my system i'm running:
Msi neo4 platinum (non-SLI)
Amd x2 3800+
ATI x800XL
OCZ Premier 2x512MB Dual Channel

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: tokamak
hey guys I'm looking for a new 1680x1050 monitor but don't know anything about them and am having a hard time digesting all this information.

I don't play many fast games (only stuff like SimCity 4 and Civ4). The main uses will be web browsing, papers, etc - maybe the occasional DVD. I want a nice sharp picture and vibrant colors. Don't need any bells and whistles as far as inputs go. I'll just be using a good old-fashioned VGA cable from my laptop, and that's it. Price is a strong consideration - I'd like to keep it to about $300 or less if possible. Only lcd I've ever owned was a Samsung 150MP which I considered to be excellent.

Any help appreciated.

The LG L204WT sounds great for your purposes. You can order it for $310 at Circuit City as of now (it says $309.99 after adding to cart).