LCD Buyer's Guide

[lepump]

The manual for the 215TW said the "DTV signal is displayed at 480p".
Really??? Always something to deter me from taking the leap...


http://forums.macrumors.com/archive/index.php/t-187607.html
^
"The 24" 245T is replacing the 244T (http://www.overclockersonline.com/index.php?page=articles&num=358) with all of the same features, but the same new styling as the 215TW. No speakers, but it does feature the new stand that can be lowered to an inch of the desk surface, something the 244t was not capable of."

Really???


I'm almost ready to give up on monitors, move my PC to the livingroom and buy a 40'' TV http://www.samsung.com/uk/products/television/tftlcd/le40m91bxxec.asp


*edit*
Sorry for the spamination..
but in all truthiness I think the only real option for me is the 215TW

(..but man would i like to know when the tech from that 40'' led blü is coming to monitors...)

 

[imported_mingus]

Those new Samsungs are 4:3 monitors tho correct? The Dell 2007wfp is about $100 more each (i'm buying 2). Everyone so far seems to like the LG more. No height is a drag, can deal with that.

 

[raildogg]

A really dumb question, but does the Dell 2007WFP include all the cables? I tried searching Dell's webiste, but I may have missed it like a lot of other times. I think this is my top monitor at the moment, but the Viewsonic VX2025WM is still a possibility. I think the lack of HDCP and the non S-IPS panel of the VX2025WM make me lean toward the Dell 2007WFP more. This has been a great thread.

 

[cbreathe]

Hello all,

I'm another person trying to make the switch from CRT to LCD and my attempts have been met with nothing but pain. I'm beginning to think that have unreasonable expectations about the technology and that perhaps CRTs really are for me. My requirements are as follows:

I am a gamer. While I don't need the lowest response time available it's fairly important that I not be able to detect motion blur when playing games. This, when compounded with the rest of my expectations, I think is the root of the problem.

I am very sensitive to defects and artifacts of any kind. For example, I purchased a VX922 on the recommendation of a Tom's Hardware article after literally weeks of agonizing. I've since discovered that the backlight leaking and lack of uniformity have driven me up the wall. I'm looking into returning/selling the panel. Is it too much to expect that a black screen would be displayed as such?

Aside from the monitor needing to be 19" or larger, size is not so much of a concern for me. I would prefer to not go larger than 19" unless it would somehow improve the monitor in other ways.

Any help is appreciated.

 

[lepump]

about the LED..

http://www.behardware.com/news/8035/cebit-lcd-samsung-led-on-their-way.html
^"released next summer at best.
Unlike NEC's policy the price of these monitors won't be higher than the
"normal" LCD except that this technology will be introduced first in high end models."

true/false/comments???

LED display found at samsung.de
http://www.samsung.com/at/products/monitors/tftmonitors/xl20.asp#
..maybe they'll be here soon?

 

[lepump]

cbreathe.. I think we're in the same seat.
saw a Samsung 970p and that did it for me. now i'm ready to try LCD.
the design of the 970p really screams Starck to me.. It's a piece of art in my eyes.
I wish they'd release a widescreen model with the same looks. (and image Q)

 

[Raloth]

Originally posted by: raildogg
A really dumb question, but does the Dell 2007WFP include all the cables? I tried searching Dell's webiste, but I may have missed it like a lot of other times. I think this is my top monitor at the moment, but the Viewsonic VX2025WM is still a possibility. I think the lack of HDCP and the non S-IPS panel of the VX2025WM make me lean toward the Dell 2007WFP more. This has been a great thread.

Mine came with the power cable, VGA cable, DVI cable, and USB cable for the built in hub. I don't believe it came with an S-Video cable, but with the mess in my room, who knows.

 

[cbreathe]

Originally posted by: lepump
cbreathe.. I think we're in the same seat.
saw a Samsung 970p and that did it for me. now i'm ready to try LCD.
the design of the 970p really screams Starck to me.. It's a piece of art in my eyes.
I wish they'd release a widescreen model with the same looks. (and image Q)

I would be much more of a fan of the 970p if they had used an aluminum housing instead of plastic. Also, seeing as I would also be using this monitor on linux it's important to me to have a monitor that isn't wholly software-controlled.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: cbreathe
Hello all,

I'm another person trying to make the switch from CRT to LCD and my attempts have been met with nothing but pain. I'm beginning to think that have unreasonable expectations about the technology and that perhaps CRTs really are for me. My requirements are as follows:

I am a gamer. While I don't need the lowest response time available it's fairly important that I not be able to detect motion blur when playing games. This, when compounded with the rest of my expectations, I think is the root of the problem.

I am very sensitive to defects and artifacts of any kind. For example, I purchased a VX922 on the recommendation of a Tom's Hardware article after literally weeks of agonizing. I've since discovered that the backlight leaking and lack of uniformity have driven me up the wall. I'm looking into returning/selling the panel. Is it too much to expect that a black screen would be displayed as such?

Aside from the monitor needing to be 19" or larger, size is not so much of a concern for me. I would prefer to not go larger than 19" unless it would somehow improve the monitor in other ways.

Any help is appreciated.

The only monitor that will satisfy you is NEC 20WmGX2.. it's performance and color is closest to a CRT while having perfectly crisp text. Trust someone who is a huge CRT, Trinitron fan, has been though about 16 LCD's and is hated by Fry's returns department. Does it have motion blur? Yea a little but only in certain conditions... mainly RTS's where text pops up and you're scrolling like looking at items on the ground in Titan Quest for example. But you will get used to it. And you really have no choice since all CRT's suck today..

Problem is its hella expensive...

 

[eeric]

No, not LED LCD's, i meant the CCFL wide gamut ones... this one:

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?...vpn=LS19MEPSFV/XAA&manufacture=Samsung
(price is CAD), its supposed to be in stock in a week or two.

so the question is, for being around the same price as a Dell 2007WFP on sale (Days of Deals), which would be better...

 

[lepump]

dear eeric:
My gut tells me 931C..

btw zebo... the 20WmGX2 is 20? cheaper than 215TW here

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: cbreathe
I would be much more of a fan of the 970p if they had used an aluminum housing instead of plastic. Also, seeing as I would also be using this monitor on linux it's important to me to have a monitor that isn't wholly software-controlled.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=linux+ddc%2Fci&btnG=Google+Search
http://ddccontrol.sourceforge.net/doc/0.4/apb.html (970P is supported both VGA/DVI)

But I agree that the lack of buttons is inexcusable (and the lack of Linux MagicTune support when they have a Unix/Mac OS X version).

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: raildogg
A really dumb question, but does the Dell 2007WFP include all the cables?

I have no idea. You may have to start a thread about that.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: eeric
The new Samsung LCD's is the article on www.lcdresource.com (basically this thread's site) front page. I don't know, what do you guys think? New Samsung 931C with the high gamut 97% colour and 2ms (and glossy finished panel!) or Dell 2007WFP... the sale price of Dell would be roughly the same as the regular price of the Samsung.... hype or actual new tech worth the money?

Isn't the Samsung 931C $300? The Dell is still $75 more I think. I have no idea how much difference the bigger color gamut will make (whether it'll be worth it over an S-IPS 72% gamut monitor or not). But it certainly is a step in the right direction. I might get it over the Dell just to see new technology.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: mingus
The LG L204WT looks nice for the money. Does it use the same panel as the Dell 2007WFP? Which Samsung monitors are we referring to?

Nope, the LG is actually a TN. Which Samsungs is who referring to? I've been talking about the high color gamut ones and have speculated more may be coming.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: lepump
cbreathe.. I think we're in the same seat.
saw a Samsung 970p and that did it for me. now i'm ready to try LCD.
the design of the 970p really screams Starck to me.. It's a piece of art in my eyes.
I wish they'd release a widescreen model with the same looks. (and image Q)

I'd prefer the looks, adjustment controls, size, and image quality of the 215TW.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: cbreathe
Hello all,

I'm another person trying to make the switch from CRT to LCD and my attempts have been met with nothing but pain. I'm beginning to think that have unreasonable expectations about the technology and that perhaps CRTs really are for me. My requirements are as follows:

I am a gamer. While I don't need the lowest response time available it's fairly important that I not be able to detect motion blur when playing games. This, when compounded with the rest of my expectations, I think is the root of the problem.

It may very well be, since image quality is inversely proportional to response time with LCDs due to technical limitations.

I am very sensitive to defects and artifacts of any kind. For example, I purchased a VX922 on the recommendation of a Tom's Hardware article after literally weeks of agonizing. I've since discovered that the backlight leaking and lack of uniformity have driven me up the wall. I'm looking into returning/selling the panel. Is it too much to expect that a black screen would be displayed as such?

It is, when the source is a white light and all the crystals have to twist to show other colors as well. The VX922 is known for its ununiformity though.

Aside from the monitor needing to be 19" or larger, size is not so much of a concern for me. I would prefer to not go larger than 19" unless it would somehow improve the monitor in other ways.

Any help is appreciated.

I would recommend an NEC 20WMGX2, or wait for the Samsung 931C to become available. The 931C will probably be faster, but the NEC is also close though still behind the fastest TNs. I would say the NEC is half as fast as the fastest TN today, that half being seven milliseconds (NEC is roughly 14 while TNs are <7 ms). No, it's not faster than a CRT except in very subtle/white on black transitions.

Unless you are focusing on very small enemies in the distance in high quantities in a dark environment, I don't see how response time could bother anyone at 7-14 ms. Could you see it? Probably, but it's really easy to ignore unless you're stuck in a situation where it's absolutely critical that you focus on very small objects in slow color transition areas. Of all the games I've played, Battlefield 2 seems to be the most sensitive to response time (enemies in the distance, etc), but with the rest of the games I might as well just have been using a CRT. It made no difference. It's easiest to notice in BF2 while flying. Hardly a problem still, and worth the sacrifice for everything else that's awesome about this LCD (NEC 20WMGX2).

 

[Captk]

Got my 940BX tonight after ordering on Wednesday. Hooked it up using the DVI connection. Quickly tried Far Cry and COD2. I can't believe the difference between this and the 17" CRT I had been using. Outstanding, everything looks like I can reach in and touch it. Had a problem with Magic Tune software but reinstalled and now it is fine, my error. No problem with the games and I am seeing thing I didn't see on the CRT. Again, I just tried it for 15 - 20 minutes but the difference is amazing. Great monitor.
Ken

 

[NTB]

I sent a message to the OP, but I haven't heard anything back, so I guess I'll post here, too.

Anybody know anything about or have any oppinions on the Sceptre X7g-Naga V or the bigger X9g?

I have an opportunity to get a good deal on either one ($180+tax for the 19"; not sure about the 17" yet) and I am considering building a dual-monitor setup. I wanted to check them out and see if anybody knew anything about them before I buy, though.

Nate

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: NTB
I sent a message to the OP, but I haven't heard anything back, so I guess I'll post here, too.

D'oh. Sorry, got sidetracked.

Anybody know anything about or have any oppinions on the Sceptre X7g-Naga V or the bigger X9g?

I have an opportunity to get a good deal on either one ($180+tax for the 19"; not sure about the 17" yet) and I am considering building a dual-monitor setup. I wanted to check them out and see if anybody knew anything about them before I buy, though.

Nate

To my knowledge, they use AUO TN panels, and I have a pretty low opinion of those (except for the BenQ FP93GX which I still recommend for speed). You may be getting a better "deal" by spending more on a superior monitor, if you know what I'm getting at. Do you have a budget range or was this just a deal that came up and you were wondering if it was worth it? IMO it isn't (save up for something better).

 

[mallow005]

I took the plunge! My NEC 20WMGX2 shall come in next Wednesday! I will be sure to post my thoughts and a comparison to my Viewsonic PF795.

 

[HexiumVII]

I was about to buy a Samsung 215TW until my friend saw the new Samsung 225BW. He was able to get it at cost to me for $340 vs $415 for the 215TW($499 retail). So i was ah, what the he|| $80 less for 1 inch more, less crappy speaker, a couple inputs, and PIP.

Anyways first impressions are blacks are pretty good, as good as most CRTs amazingly. White was slightly uneven from top to bottom. Very slight, but noticable by me. There was some backlight bleed from the bottom, noticable by day, about an inch high. I couldn't notice any shimmering like effect. Top had a little too. Color reproduction is a bit on the dull side. (my benchmarks are Sony Xbrights and Fujitsu laptops, those are incredible, and currently untouchable until the new CCFP comes out probably) I had to turn on Nvidias digital virbrance (about 1/3 from the first notch) to get the enough saturation to please me. Overall i'd say the color reproduction is about the same as the 215TW. The viewing angle seems better than the dell 2005 and doesn't change color when moving left to right. Overall i'd say its better than Dell 2005s in image quality.

I don't play much FPS games, mostly old stuff like raven shield. I'll try some HL2 tonight and see how the speced 5ms time holds up.

Also nice is power consumption averages 30watts, about 75% less than the dell 2005s.

Overall i was quite suprised by the TN monitor, my expectations were a bit on the low side due to it being cheaper than the 215TW while being bigger. I was planning on using this as an emergency monitor for a month, but it seems it might be worth keeping until those nice LED monitors come out. Too bad its not WUXGA, though that will probably bring it into another price bracket.

update1:
So i decided to do some photoshop and found the banding is pretty bad, as you would expect from a 6bit panel. It is especially bad for blacks making it almost unusable for photoshop.

 

[NTB]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: NTB
I sent a message to the OP, but I haven't heard anything back, so I guess I'll post here, too.

D'oh. Sorry, got sidetracked.

Anybody know anything about or have any oppinions on the Sceptre X7g-Naga V or the bigger X9g?

I have an opportunity to get a good deal on either one ($180+tax for the 19"; not sure about the 17" yet) and I am considering building a dual-monitor setup. I wanted to check them out and see if anybody knew anything about them before I buy, though.

Nate

To my knowledge, they use AUO TN panels, and I have a pretty low opinion of those (except for the BenQ FP93GX which I still recommend for speed). You may be getting a better "deal" by spending more on a superior monitor, if you know what I'm getting at. Do you have a budget range or was this just a deal that came up and you were wondering if it was worth it? IMO it isn't (save up for something better).

I was just curious, not in any rush.

Nate

 

[xtknight]

Most of you probably haven't realized this, but all VA panels (MVA, P-MVA, S-MVA, PVA, S-PVA) hide image details when viewed at a perpendicular angle (and fade out when viewed off axis from there). That's a pretty big minus for photo editing and I may recommend strictly S-IPS panels for photo editing in the future. I immediately notice how much better an S-IPS is at showing these subtle details (that mostly get hidden in dark areas). TNs don't have the problem but they do dither and that makes them rather unideal. If they make better dithering algorithms (like what exists on the expensive NEC 8->10-bit monitor) then I may change my mind.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: HexiumVII
I was about to buy a Samsung 215TW until my friend saw the new Samsung 225BW. He was able to get it at cost to me for $340 vs $415 for the 215TW($499 retail). So i was ah, what the he|| $80 less for 1 inch more, less crappy speaker, a couple inputs, and PIP.

Anyways first impressions are blacks are pretty good, as good as most CRTs amazingly. White was slightly uneven from top to bottom. Very slight, but noticable by me. There was some backlight bleed from the bottom, noticable by day, about an inch high. I couldn't notice any shimmering like effect. Top had a little too. Color reproduction is a bit on the dull side. (my benchmarks are Sony Xbrights and Fujitsu laptops, those are incredible, and currently untouchable until the new CCFP comes out probably) I had to turn on Nvidias digital virbrance (about 1/3 from the first notch) to get the enough saturation to please me. Overall i'd say the color reproduction is about the same as the 215TW. The viewing angle seems better than the dell 2005 and doesn't change color when moving left to right. Overall i'd say its better than Dell 2005s in image quality.

Hmm? The viewing angle of the 225BW TN is superior to the S-IPS Dell? What about if you look from the bottom?

I don't play much FPS games, mostly old stuff like raven shield. I'll try some HL2 tonight and see how the speced 5ms time holds up.

Sounds good, but I actually think the overdrive of the 215TW makes it faster than the 225BW (I believe it's a TN without overdrive like the 205BW).

Also nice is power consumption averages 30watts, about 75% less than the dell 2005s.

Overall i was quite suprised by the TN monitor, my expectations were a bit on the low side due to it being cheaper than the 215TW while being bigger. I was planning on using this as an emergency monitor for a month, but it seems it might be worth keeping until those nice LED monitors come out. Too bad its not WUXGA, though that will probably bring it into another price bracket.

update1:
So i decided to do some photoshop and found the banding is pretty bad, as you would expect from a 6bit panel. It is especially bad for blacks making it almost unusable for photoshop.

Yeah...well, personally I would have gotten the 215TW. It definitely has superior color reproduction even if you don't notice it immediately. That's what they do to trick you (increase the vibrancy of the primaries at the expense of midtone accuracy). In the end, your picture does not look better (maybe it does for the first second of viewing). I can't blame you for using digital vibrance because it does compensate for the lack of midtone punch caused by their "vibrancy" agenda. I haven't been impressed by the latest Samsung 5 ms LCDs. The 8 ms 215TW is faster in most cases. Though tempting, newer isn't always better with LCDs.