LCD Buyer's Guide

[Scyform]

Hey, first time posting here, but after a week or two of poking around, I think I've narrtowed my choices to either the 215TW or the 20WMGX2. I game (mostly FPS) and also intend to connect my 360 up to it. The other main thing I was looking for was a 16:10 aspect bigger than 19" since I plan on using it to play plenty of movies, possibly HD ones. I actually HAVE the 20WMGX2 in my cart on Newegg at the moment but I'm still trying to justify the >$600 price tag. Is the NEC $200 better than the Samsung for my purposes? I also do light photoshop work but nothing too intensive. I've been using a Dell Inspiron for the past 2 years and games on it have never bothered me so I'm guessing I won't have any ghosting issues with either of these? Since I don't really plan on using the tv tuner function too much I might just go with the Samsung. Any help would be great, especially if there're cheaper alternatives I might be overlooking.

 

[Dethfrumbelo]

I guess these new "Super" CCFLs have a broader light spectrum range which is what allows them to claim the 97% of NTSC, assuming that's accurate. How about the new LED backlights you're expecting to show up Q1 next year - how will they be implemented, by using white LEDs or something more complex? I suppose ideally a white backlight should contain the entire visible spectrum of sunlight to achieve 100% color.

About the 931C - it's a 6-bit TN panel, so while I imagine the colors will be more vibrant with better contrast, it will still have gaps in-between where it needs to dither, so the 97% color accuracy may not be very *accurate* for this particular panel, although I think Samsung is only claiming that for the backlight.

 

[johnnyMon]

I would really like a 20"-21.3" monitor for general text use as well as photo editing. I recommended the Samsung 214T to my friend, and it looks great to my eyes. Very crisp text, letters not too small at native resolution. But I have not tried photo editing on it, and I'm wondering whether I should hold out for a S-IPS or IPS panel.

Furthermore, the 214T has been out for a while, yet the price is still pretty high. I'm worried about spending $650-690 for it and then have Samsung release a new model that has better image quality (or that I'll wait and the new model will be worse for photo editing).

Any thoughts on what to buy now, or to wait, would be much appreciated!

 

[Dethfrumbelo]

Originally posted by: johnnyMon
I would really like a 20"-21.3" monitor for general text use as well as photo editing. I recommended the Samsung 214T to my friend, and it looks great to my eyes. Very crisp text, letters not too small at native resolution. But I have not tried photo editing on it, and I'm wondering whether I should hold out for a S-IPS or IPS panel.

Furthermore, the 214T has been out for a while, yet the price is still pretty high. I'm worried about spending $650-690 for it and then have Samsung release a new model that has better image quality (or that I'll wait and the new model will be worse for photo editing).

Any thoughts on what to buy now, or to wait, would be much appreciated!

I'm guessing that all Samsung's future panels will have the new 97% color CCFL backlights and the other manufacturers are likely to do the same. It may be a good idea to wait - probably less than a month before the new backlights start showing up with the quality (A)S-IPS panels.

 

[johnnyMon]

Thanks, Dethfrumbelo, this is very helpful. I can wait a month or two before buying if necessary.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Scyform
Hey, first time posting here, but after a week or two of poking around, I think I've narrtowed my choices to either the 215TW or the 20WMGX2.

Welcome.

I game (mostly FPS) and also intend to connect my 360 up to it. The other main thing I was looking for was a 16:10 aspect bigger than 19" since I plan on using it to play plenty of movies, possibly HD ones. I actually HAVE the 20WMGX2 in my cart on Newegg at the moment but I'm still trying to justify the >$600 price tag. Is the NEC $200 better than the Samsung for my purposes? I also do light photoshop work but nothing too intensive. I've been using a Dell Inspiron for the past 2 years and games on it have never bothered me so I'm guessing I won't have any ghosting issues with either of these? Since I don't really plan on using the tv tuner function too much I might just go with the Samsung. Any help would be great, especially if there're cheaper alternatives I might be overlooking.

I can't tell you whether it would be worth your money or not. If I were in your position I would get the NEC. The Samsung hides details at a perpendicular angle due to its panel, and the NEC doesn't have that problem, which is quite a big plus IMO. The NEC is also brighter and more vibrant. The coating is awesome, and the dot pitch is finer on the NEC. The NEC is also faster by quite a large margin (though you may not be annoyed by a slower one, you may like that). All that is definitely worth $200 more in my book. The downside is that the NEC doesn't pivot or have height adjustment. Personally I value color reproduction and response time much more and I never really have used pivot. I wouldn't bother with anything cheaper than the Samsung (you get what you pay for).

Edit: I forgot to mention the viewing angles on the NEC are also quite a bit better. Not to mention the dynamic contrast...the NEC is just much more suited toward gaming and multimedia than the Samsung. The 215TW would be equal for general usage.

 

[steved72]

Which is better

lg 1970hr or samsung 931c

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Dethfrumbelo
I guess these new "Super" CCFLs have a broader light spectrum range which is what allows them to claim the 97% of NTSC, assuming that's accurate. How about the new LED backlights you're expecting to show up Q1 next year - how will they be implemented, by using white LEDs or something more complex? I suppose ideally a white backlight should contain the entire visible spectrum of sunlight to achieve 100% color.

The "super" CCFLs use new phopshors (which I assume help remove the characteristic green tint of them). LED backlights are actually rows of red/green/blue ones (red+green+blue=white). Whatever comes from the LED backlights will be the reference "white". Color temperature can be adjusted by modifying the amount of red/green/blue in the white. Yup, splitting pure white light allows you every color.

About the 931C - it's a 6-bit TN panel, so while I imagine the colors will be more vibrant with better contrast, it will still have gaps in-between where it needs to dither, so the 97% color accuracy may not be very *accurate* for this particular panel, although I think Samsung is only claiming that for the backlight.

I assume it's how much color can be split by the color filter when using that specific backlight. Surely other stuff must have changed because of the new backlight (color filter, chips) so maybe they made the dithering less noticeable too. What will really be interesting is the 8-bit TFTs utilizing the new backlight. It's already implemented in the $6000 NEC LED-backlight monitor. There are even newer dithering techniques like varying the positions of the dithering to cancel the effect out. Pretty neat and I hope we see it implemented soon (other than in >$2000 LCDs).

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: steved72
Which is better

lg 1970hr or samsung 931c

I assume the Samsung 931C (wider color gamut), but I'm not going to recommend it to everyone until I see reviews on it. I encourage those who are brave to give it a shot though.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: johnnyMon
I would really like a 20"-21.3" monitor for general text use as well as photo editing. I recommended the Samsung 214T to my friend, and it looks great to my eyes. Very crisp text, letters not too small at native resolution. But I have not tried photo editing on it, and I'm wondering whether I should hold out for a S-IPS or IPS panel.

Furthermore, the 214T has been out for a while, yet the price is still pretty high. I'm worried about spending $650-690 for it and then have Samsung release a new model that has better image quality (or that I'll wait and the new model will be worse for photo editing).

Any thoughts on what to buy now, or to wait, would be much appreciated!

What about the NEC LCD2070NX? It's <$500 and uses an S-IPS panel.

 

[johnnyMon]

Hi xtknight, thanks for the suggestion. Do you think the difference between 21.3" and 20" at 1600x1200 resolution would make a big difference in text size? I will be doing a lot of text editing. Also, while I could really use this now, I could also wait up to two months. Any thoughts on waiting for Samsung CCFL backlight giving me greater color gamut vs. the S-IPS panel of the NEC?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: johnnyMon
Hi xtknight, thanks for the suggestion. Do you think the difference between 21.3" and 20" at 1600x1200 resolution would make a big difference in text size?

Generally text looks better with smaller dot pitch but if you find it too small there's probably a way to increase DPI (zoom for example in desktop publishing apps or Word). The Windows adjustment isn't the most convenient (for uncompliant apps, elements of dialogs get overlapped because the size changes but the position doesn't).

I will be doing a lot of text editing. Also, while I could really use this now, I could also wait up to two months. Any thoughts on waiting for Samsung CCFL backlight giving me greater color gamut vs. the S-IPS panel of the NEC?

I wouldn't hold my breath. I really don't think 20"+ ones with new backlights will arrive within two months. I haven't even heard any estimate of when they'll be here. I can only guess sometime early next year they'll start showing up. There will always be something better. Though this is one major change, LED backlights aren't far behind either. I'm perfectly happy with my 72% S-IPS and I'll wait for new S-IPS panels to come out with the new backlight (which will probably be a longer time than for S-PVAs since Samsung already has one out for TNs). I don't think I'd get an S-PVA, I would just wait for S-IPSs if I were going to wait. But I don't think the new S-IPSs will arrive within two months, so just get the tried-and-true NEC LCD2070NX for now.

Originally posted by: eeric
*waiting for review on samsung 931c*, don't they usually ship it to big review sites before it becomes available in stores?

maybe i'm just impatient.

I'm dying to see a 931C review as well.

 

[johnnyMon]

I hadn't considered the 2070NX until I read your posts on it, especially the above. I have since looked at TrustedReviews, which gave it great scores, as well as on Dpreview's forums and have spoken to a very cool rep at NEC. I think this is the monitor I'm going to pull the trigger on. Thank you xtknight for your great help, and best of luck with your site.

 

[lepump]

samsung.de has updated their XL20 page.. November 2006! oh man, oh man, oh man..
http://monitor.samsung.de/article.asp?artid=430A5614-E3EA-41B4-BA5B-8DC3D65B8DB8
http://translate.google.com/translate?u...=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools
^ translated for your convenience

need to know the price now so i can start saving

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: lepump
samsung.de has updated their XL20 page.. November 2006! oh man, oh man, oh man..
http://monitor.samsung.de/article.asp?artid=430A5614-E3EA-41B4-BA5B-8DC3D65B8DB8
http://translate.google.com/translate?u...=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools
^ translated for your convenience

need to know the price now so i can start saving

Great find...no mention of price though.

 

[xtknight]

For those interested, here are some prelim specs on upcoming NECs (24" and 26"). I think they still use CCFLs, but probably the new ones. They are aimed toward pro/medical imaging, but if the response time is good they should be sick for gaming/movies as long as you're willing to pay the steep prices. They may not have component/S-Video/composite inputs though. If this is true, then the new CCFLs may be in LCDs quicker than I thought, but at quite a premium price. I'm sticking with my early next year guess for more consumer super CCFL LCDs (20"+).

LCD2490WUXi-BK - estimate of $1450
A-TW-IPS panel
1920x1200
VGA, DVI-D, DVI-I
4 year warranty
Height, swivel, pivot adjustments
Optional Soundbar
Shipping in November

--------

LCD2690WUXi-BK - estimate of $1750
A-TW-IPS Panel
1920x1200
800:1 contrast
12 ms response, 5 ms g2g
178/178
400 cd/m2
VGA, DVI-D, DVI-I
4 year warranty
Height, swivel, pivot adjustments
Optional Soundbar
92% coverage of adobe color gamut.
Should be available last week of september/first week of october.

 

[lepump]

http://www.behardware.com/news/8035/cebit-lcd-samsung-led-on-their-way.html
^
"Unlike NEC's policy the price of these monitors won't be higher than the "normal" LCD except that this technology will be introduced first in high end models."

I sure hope that "rumor" ends up to be true.. for my wallets sake

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: lepump
http://www.behardware.com/news/8035/cebit-lcd-samsung-led-on-their-way.html
^
"Unlike NEC's policy the price of these monitors won't be higher than the "normal" LCD except that this technology will be introduced first in high end models."

I sure hope that "rumor" ends up to be true.. for my wallets sake

It's great you bring these interesting tidbits in that I miss. Together both of us can predict ANYTHING.

If that's the case I wouldn't be surprised if Samsung brought out an affordable super-CCFL 20" LCD in November. They already have the 931C and it's extremely affordable (for an LCD) at $250. If it's a TN I won't be all that interested though.

 

[lepump]

Samsung XL20 review
..can anyone translate korean???
http://www.monitor4u.co.kr/review/revie...content.asp?idx=1130&p_idx=983&tbl=lcd

*edit*
babelfish can translate it..

and google has a beta translator aswell
http://translate.google.com/translate?u...=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools

 

[talgtapp]

Great thread!!
Im trying to find a realy cheap (less than 300$) 19" or bigger with true 8-bit color. There dosn't seem to be any S-IPS or S-PVA panels in my price range (searched prad.de) :-( Are PVA panels any good?

Im going to use the monitor for graphic design and need reliable colors (preferably without having to do to much calibration) Responsetime is not that important.

 

[jbbrown]

Hey, this is my first post as well. I'm in the same boat as you talgtapp. I'm looking for a good 19" monitor without a hefty price. I have been looking at the Samsung 971P (hoping the price goes down soon), I have not heard anything about it since it recently came out. Does anyone know anything about this model?

I have seen a Samsung S-PVA panel before and it looked very good. There was very little color distortion and the veiwing angle was excellent. It looked much better than what I was expecting. From what I have heard though, S-IPS is the best if you are into a lot of graphic design.

 

[mallow005]

NEC 20WMGX2 mini review:

Awesome.

THE END


I have yet to watch a DVD on it, but it is truly awesome for photos, graphics work, all around web/desktop usage and pretty much anything else I can think of.

For games, I play Day of Defeat: Source and Company of Heroes. The only downside is that I am forced to play at a higher resolution than my old monitor and my graphics card is starting to stutter, even on the lowest settings (I'm stuck with a 6800GS 256Meg until I upgrade my motherboard/cpu). Aside from that, the colors are accurate and the detail is astounding. I have not noticed any ghosting, and I am used to a very fast CRT.

Compared to my old monitor, a 6 year old Viewsonic PF795 CRT, the brightness blows me away. Any LCD probably would, but viewing the 20WMGX2 next to my old CRT is like reading in daylight compared to reading by candle. I think to anyone who switches, that is the greatest difference they will see (aside from text sharpness). However, I suspect that it's just my video card, I can't believe that my old monitor looked THAT dark. I have my brightness around 60%, or else my eyes start hurting quite a bit after a few hours.

After getting this monitor, I just want to browse flickr all day, the photos are incredible. Colors and details! MMMmmmmm, makes me want to do photography. I do some mockups for my job and Inkscape is now a joy to use. Text and colors are so yummy looking.

It will probably take me a few weeks before my productivity is back to normal, for now I just want to look at everything I can through this monitor.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: talgtapp
Great thread!!

Welcome to the forums.

Im trying to find a realy cheap (less than 300$) 19" or bigger with true 8-bit color. There dosn't seem to be any S-IPS or S-PVA panels in my price range (searched prad.de) :-( Are PVA panels any good?

Most PVAs are 6-bit. Sorry, I don't know of any IPSs or S-PVAs under $300 either, not even 15" ones.

Im going to use the monitor for graphic design and need reliable colors (preferably without having to do to much calibration) Responsetime is not that important.

The Samsung 931C ($250) might be interesting to you (it has a greater color gamut than most via new backlight). Just make sure you disable the dynamic contrast for photo work. You might want to wait for a review of it that measures color delta too.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: mallow005
NEC 20WMGX2 mini review:

Awesome.

THE END

That's what I felt like saying.

Compared to my old monitor, a 6 year old Viewsonic PF795 CRT, the brightness blows me away. Any LCD probably would, but viewing the 20WMGX2 next to my old CRT is like reading in daylight compared to reading by candle. I think to anyone who switches, that is the greatest difference they will see (aside from text sharpness). However, I suspect that it's just my video card, I can't believe that my old monitor looked THAT dark. I have my brightness around 60%, or else my eyes start hurting quite a bit after a few hours.

Your CRT was around 100 cd/m2 at 6500K color temperature. The NEC is 470 cd/m2 at the same temperature and peak brightness, so it's up to 4.7 times as bright. At reasonable settings it's 300 cd/m2 or so.

After getting this monitor, I just want to browse flickr all day, the photos are incredible. Colors and details! MMMmmmmm, makes me want to do photography. I do some mockups for my job and Inkscape is now a joy to use. Text and colors are so yummy looking.

Try the Windows Media and Quicktime HD galleries. BBC Japan was the best IMO. It's a godsend they managed to lower the response time on S-IPS screens to 7-14 ms. or so. You have 30 ms S-IPSs then all of a sudden, they release a fast AS-IPS just like that. That really did breathe new hope into LCDs.

IMO, the best settings are: DV mode: Standard, ADVM: On, Sharpness: 16.6. Set color gamma/temp to sRGB. Native is OK, but inappropriate for the color space most of the world uses. It makes things too bright, but sRGB makes them just right (no rhyme intended). It does cast a greenish hue over everything, but you'll realize it looks better in the end (closer to a calibrated CRT).

You will have to calibrate brightness/contrast yourself. I used my fullscreen mixed gradient test (it works great for adjusting brightness and contrast). You can just watch the settings making a big difference. As you set the contrast to the correct settings, most of the kinks in the gradient get worked out. ADVM itself will not cause banding. The DV modes do separate the gradient into pieces, which is easily visible when you use gradlin. Don't forget to use the standard DV mode when you calibrate with this gradient. Otherwise, the gradient looks separated due to movie-intended color-enhancing features. The black level test on my site is hard to get right with this LCD though. Not a huge deal. There is some color-mapping going on (some double tones) in the 256-step gradient. Obviously it's not perfect. I'm just glad I finally made a test this thing struggles at. The rest of the color spectrum is amazingly clear, pure, and lush. Not to mention, it's amazingly even.

It will probably take me a few weeks before my productivity is back to normal, for now I just want to look at everything I can through this monitor.

I know what you mean. I mostly do general usage anyway. But after that general usage, as you sit back and watch HD video, your breath is taken away.

 

[lepump]

Sometimes this thread feels like a NEC 20WMGX2 commercial

XL20 released in Japan
http://www.engadget.com/2006/09/22/sams...he-720td-711nd-and-xl20-lcds-in-japan/
but no price.. shamed!


btw.. how does the Dell 2007WFP compare to the NEC 20WMGX2 ??
is the price difference worth it (here 375? and 600?)