LCD Buyer's Guide

[nwrigley]

Originally posted by: mostlyprudent
For someone who has a small photography business, is there an advantage in going with a CRT over an LCD in $200-250 price range? If not, can you recomend an 8-bit panel display in that price range?

buy this monitor if you can get this deal:
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...atid=40&threadid=1933861&enterthread=y

it's a closer to $300, but worth it and is a good monitor for photo editing

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: nwrigley

Originally posted by: mostlyprudent
For someone who has a small photography business, is there an advantage in going with a CRT over an LCD in $200-250 price range? If not, can you recomend an 8-bit panel display in that price range?

buy this monitor if you can get this deal:
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...atid=40&threadid=1933861&enterthread=y

it's a closer to $300, but worth it and is a good monitor for photo editing

Hey thanks for reminding me about that.

Here's a fixed link: http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...atid=40&threadid=1933861&enterthread=y

Looks like only a few are having good luck though.

 

[CP5670]

Very interesting link about the NECs there. That 24" GX one sounds like it would be a killer LCD, but I wonder whether it will have any significant input lag like most other LCDs of that size.

 

[imported_mostlyprudent]

Thanks. I could not get that deal, but I will continue to shop around.

 

[imported_mostlyprudent]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: nwrigley

Originally posted by: mostlyprudent
For someone who has a small photography business, is there an advantage in going with a CRT over an LCD in $200-250 price range? If not, can you recomend an 8-bit panel display in that price range?

buy this monitor if you can get this deal:
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...atid=40&threadid=1933861&enterthread=y

it's a closer to $300, but worth it and is a good monitor for photo editing

Hey thanks for reminding me about that.

Here's a fixed link: http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...atid=40&threadid=1933861&enterthread=y

Looks like only a few are having good luck though.

I think I am going to spend a little more money and get something I will really be satified with. I am noticing that most of the monitors recommended for photo editing have a 16ms response time. Are there some with 8ms or faster?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: mostlyprudent
I think I am going to spend a little more money and get something I will really be satified with. I am noticing that most of the monitors recommended for photo editing have a 16ms response time. Are there some with 8ms or faster?

If we're talking reality and not advertising, 16ms ranks among the fastest. Many of the companies that manufacture the high-quality photo editing monitors are more honest about their ratings. The Samsung 215TW happens to be rated at 8ms (g2g). As you can see it hits just around 16-18 the majority of the time:

http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/07/03/wide_format_lcd_monitors/page15.html

I definitely recommend spending more. $300 is a lot of money, but no amount of money is too much when you speak of photo editing LCDs. There's a big gap of quality between <$375 and $500 and it's not linear.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: CP5670
Very interesting link about the NECs there. That 24" GX one sounds like it would be a killer LCD, but I wonder whether it will have any significant input lag like most other LCDs of that size.

I wonder if it'll even be an S-IPS. I certainly hope so, because the 26" 2690 will be. I wouldn't mind if it was an S-PVA though (and I can't possibly see them using anything less than S-PVA/S-IPS). They said the 2490 is an A-TW-IPS (AFAIK, Advanced True Wide IPS, improvement over AS-IPS) so LPL must be coming out with a 24" S-IPS screen.

 

[eeric]

so the samsung 931c is out and ppl have received it, but still no reliable reviews

*cough* xtknight, i think you need a new 19" *cough*

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: eeric
so the samsung 931c is out and ppl have received it, but still no reliable reviews

Amazing isn't it?

*cough* xtknight, i think you need a new 19" *cough*

You're right, the VP930b is getting pretty old and rusty.

When they get it in brick-and-mortar stores I can go take a look at it. The availability still seems rather limited (Out of Stock at Newegg and ETA is 11/2/2006 wtf?).

 

[eeric]

actually i just checked. it just became available and is in stock at my local best buy (toronto). holding off until i see at least 2 good reliable reviews... so... tempted...

btw, i was actually being sarcastic when i said you needed a new 19" but yes, get 931c, goGoGO.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: eeric
actually i just checked. it just became available and is in stock at my local best buy (toronto). holding off until i see at least 2 good reliable reviews... so... tempted...

It's not available at Best Buy, CompUSA, or Circuit City here.

btw, i was actually being sarcastic when i said you needed a new 19" but yes, get 931c, goGoGO.

Duh... I was just playing along.

 

[Technonut]

Originally posted by: eeric
so the samsung 931c is out and ppl have received it, but still no reliable reviews

*cough* xtknight, i think you need a new 19" *cough*

I just purchased the 931c from Newegg, and have been using it for a few days now. The color is fantastic, and text is sharp. I am not expert enough with monitors to give a "review", but I do know what my eyes like...

My only bitch is that there is no height adjustment... Other than that, I really like the 931c.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Technonut

Originally posted by: eeric
so the samsung 931c is out and ppl have received it, but still no reliable reviews

*cough* xtknight, i think you need a new 19" *cough*

I just purchased the 931c from Newegg, and have been using it for a few days now. The color is fantastic, and text is sharp. I am not expert enough with monitors to give a "review", but I do know what my eyes like...

My only bitch is that there is no height adjustment... Other than that, I really like the 931c.

Cool. Somebody who has a 931C and somebody to whom I can subject much torture in the form of testing. :evil: Really though, if you can do these we can get an extremely good idea of how the LCD will perform.

Would you mind reporting results of the gradient linearity test?

http://lcdresource.com/tools/gradlin-v0.3-mix-fs.exe

What you're looking for in each strip of colors is:

a) An even progression from dark to light. If the colors in the middle are just as bright as the ones at the end then that's not good and your LCD needs calibration.

b) No "double tones" (two tones right next to each other with no noticeable change in brightness). Each step is supposed to be an increase in brightness.

c) If you see the tones distinctly (each appears like a big step in brightness) then that means you have a very high contrast LCD (which is a good thing). Don't confuse this with the bad tone-doubling described above. This would still be a consistent gradient, just a high-contrast one where all the steps are distinct.

d) Good response time. Yup. What you're gonna do is move your mouse across the gradients horizontally one-by-one. The ghosting would be most noticeable in the midtones or darker tones. Let us know if you see any bright artifacts near the mouse cursor as you move across the gradients. It's not really a problem if it's subtle but if you see a lot of bright artifacts then it may pose an issue in video playback/gaming. Likewise if you see long trails that just means it's a slow response time LCD.

In the grayscale test at the bottom, you want to make sure that the whole gradient is gray. Check for subtle color variations, especially at the dark end of the grayscale. These are called color tracking issues. You will see a little red/green/blue tinge in the grayscale when the red, green, and blue components should actually be perfectly equal (in the case of grays). If there is too much of one color component in one part of the grayscale then that's a problem because the gray will be off.

We're not done yet...see if all these pictures appear like described on the page.

http://lcdresource.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=29&Itemid=39

And see whether or not you can adjust your LCD to where it would display these black tones (while still maintaining a dark black): http://lcdresource.com/tools/blacktest.htm

Ideally you'd be able to see all the black tones consistently (honestly hardly any LCD can so it wouldn't be surprising if the 931C couldn't) and the color gradients would be perfectly linear. And of course you'd pass the image tests with flying colors.

Thanks though. That'll be a big help. I always have more tests.

 

[alex141]

Lemme first say awesome thread. It's good to know what to look for in this sea of misleading specs. I was hoping to ask your advice xtknight: I am looking for a 19" monitor for my parents to replace their dead Samsung 191t and I'm having trouble finding a good match. Ideally I would like it to have: a)an 8-bit panel b)built in speakers and c)<$300. It's going to be hooked up to a mac mini via DVI, for basically general usage with the occasional family photograph. It seems harder to find even quality s-pva screens these days, am I asking too much? Or would a 6-bit panel be okay for general usage? (I know I wouldn't like looking at it every day ;]) Thanks in advance!

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: alex141
Lemme first say awesome thread. It's good to know what to look for in this sea of misleading specs. I was hoping to ask your advice xtknight: I am looking for a 19" monitor for my parents to replace their dead Samsung 191t and I'm having trouble finding a good match. Ideally I would like it to have: a)an 8-bit panel b)built in speakers and c)<$300. It's going to be hooked up to a mac mini via DVI, for basically general usage with the occasional family photograph. It seems harder to find even quality s-pva screens these days, am I asking too much? Or would a 6-bit panel be okay for general usage? (I know I wouldn't like looking at it every day ;]) Thanks in advance!

Unfortunately, 8-bit 19" LCDs are very steep in price. This is the cheapest I could find: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824002147

It is over $300 and it doesn't have integrated speakers though. Plus the reviews of it aren't even that great. So we'll probably have to figure about 8-bit. Unfortunately integrated speakers are rare for 19" monitors too (except for the multimedia ones which are largely untested by reviewers and have medicore IQ).

I suggest the Samsung 940BF.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824001230

The LG L1970HR is also great (not available at Newegg though). Those will deliver decent color for near/under $300.

 

[xtknight]

Ordered a Gretag Macbeth Eye One Display 2, so soon I should have color measurements of the following displays: Samsung 710t, ViewSonic VP930b, Dell 2007FP, and NEC 20WMGX2. I'm going to review the product in general too. Perhaps I'll use it on some midrange CRTs too to compare them to older/midrange LCDs. Maybe a $300 LCD + a $250 calibrator will display better color than a $550 LCD? I doubt it...but I guess it's possible. I'll also pit it against manual calibration using gradients and what not. All of these devices support DDC/CI (command interface) so brightness control should all be automatic.

 

[Mem]

Quick review on the Belinea 10 20 35w LCD which I picked up a week ago,box comes with manual,drivers on CD,VGA cable,power and audio cable, one USB cable(for the USB 2.0 ports),no DVI cable included,however I used my belkin DVI cable.Note no height adjustment ,only tilt on this LCD.


The LCD uses latest AU Optronics P-MVA panel,colour balance was not great on defaults,brightness was way too high IMHO,was set at 100 max on default. I needed to calibrate the colours and lower brightness with my Colorvision Spyder 2 Express,this made a big difference ,colours were more natural and also showed a wider range after calibration.

Blacks are nice as they should be on a P-MVA panel,viewing angles in general were more then adequate(good to very good).Gaming showed no ghosting,I tested it with TFC,UT2004,EQ2,Oblivion,Morrowind.......UT2004 seem to give the best detail of colours compared to the other games I tested.
Scaling at 1280x960 with Morrowind was good for full wide screen,image was stretched but showed good detail,you can use 1:1 scaling with Nvidia drivers see below.
Backlight bleeding was very slight from top left corner on all black background,in general and gaming use ,could not see it.

I would say this LCD is a good allrounder and excellent price for the money.Mine came with one dead pixel(all white at lower centre) lucky I can only really see it on black background and being very small as well helps not to notice it,any other colour it virtually blends into the background.

My main reasons for buying this LCD was for widescreen gaming and general net use.

Negatives on this LCD hmmm,default colour setup,no DVI cable included or HDCP support,built-in speakers ok only for basic sound,the DVI and VGA ports are bit tight on space,not much space between the actual connection and the stands tilt bracket ,where it tilts.

Some people say USB ports are in bad postion too,in general use they are ok for things like mouse,keyboard etc where you plug and forget.
I would say the LCD appearance looks better in real life then any photos I have seen on the net.

I should point out no 1:1 panel scaling ,however you can do this via Nvidia Control panel if you have a nvidia card,all modes work fine with the nvidia 91.47 drivers I was using.

Hope you found this useful.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Mem
Quick review on the Belinea 10 20 35w LCD which I picked up a week ago,box comes with manual,drivers on CD,VGA cable,power and audio cable, one USB cable(for the USB 2.0 ports),no DVI cable included,however I used my belkin DVI cable.Note no height adjustment ,only tilt on this LCD.


The LCD uses latest AU Optronics P-MVA panel,colour balance was not great on defaults,brightness was way too high IMHO,was set at 100 max on default. I needed to calibrate the colours and lower brightness with my Colorvision Spyder 2 Express,this made a big difference ,colours were more natural and also showed a wider range after calibration.

Blacks are nice as they should be on a P-MVA panel,viewing angles in general were more then adequate(good to very good).Gaming showed no ghosting,I tested it with TFC,UT2004,EQ2,Oblivion,Morrowind.......UT2004 seem to give the best detail of colours compared to the other games I tested.
Scaling at 1280x960 with Morrowind was good for full wide screen,image was stretched but showed good detail,you can use 1:1 scaling with Nvidia drivers see below.
Backlight bleeding was very slight from top left corner on all black background,in general and gaming use ,could not see it.

I would say this LCD is a good allrounder and excellent price for the money.Mine came with one dead pixel(all white at lower centre) lucky I can only really see it on black background and being very small as well helps not to notice it,any other colour it virtually blends into the background.

My main reasons for buying this LCD was for widescreen gaming and general net use.

Negatives on this LCD hmmm,default colour setup,no DVI cable included or HDCP support,built-in speakers ok only for basic sound,the DVI and VGA ports are bit tight on space,not much space between the actual connection and the stands tilt bracket ,where it tilts.

Some people say USB ports are in bad postion too,in general use they are ok for things like mouse,keyboard etc where you plug and forget.
I would say the LCD appearance looks better in real life then any photos I have seen on the net.

I should point out no 1:1 panel scaling ,however you can do this via Nvidia Control panel if you have a nvidia card,all modes work fine with the nvidia 91.47 drivers I was using.

Hope you found this useful.

Thanks for the very helpful and in-depth review. Too bad they don't sell Belineas in the US.

I'll have to try my color calibrator on my AUO P-MVA to see if it makes colors better. I'm disappointed by my ViewSonic VP930b's color reproduction. Contrast is almost what I'd call great, but dark color reproduction is downright painful (basically you see tons of fluorescent light leaking through and little to no saturation). I've gained some faith in P-MVA panels after reading that.

 

[Spikey217]

I have a slight problem. I am running a 20WMGX2 with a eVGA 7900GT KO, latest drivers, but I can't seem to find nVidia's screen scaling options anywhere. It shows up for my friend running a BenQ202W with 6800LE.

 

[Mem]

I have a slight problem. I am running a 20WMGX2 with a eVGA 7900GT KO, latest drivers, but I can't seem to find nVidia's screen scaling options anywhere. It shows up for my friend running a BenQ202W with 6800LE.

Switch to the new Control Panel interface,then advanced view, Display>appearance>change flat scaling.


xtknight You're welcome,I believe Belinea are a German company so probably explains why are easy to find in Europe.

 

[Spikey217]

Originally posted by: Mem

I have a slight problem. I am running a 20WMGX2 with a eVGA 7900GT KO, latest drivers, but I can't seem to find nVidia's screen scaling options anywhere. It shows up for my friend running a BenQ202W with 6800LE.

Switch to the new Control Panel interface,then advanced view, Display>appearance>change flat scaling.


xtknight You're welcome,I believe Belinea are a German company so probably explains why are easy to find in Europe.

The weirdest thing is, it's not there. Do multiple monitors take away this function?

 

[Michael]

xtknight,

I have a Gretag Macbeth calibrator. It is a stick instead of a puck, but it does the same thing. I have the VP930b and it really made a difference after I set the monitor to the right colours. As there now are 4 LCD screens in my house and I used my $120 US gizmo on all of them, I think I've received good value for it.

Michael

 

[raildogg]

I am upgrading from a 19" CRT. Should I get the Dell 20" 2007WFP widescreen or Samsung 22" 225BW widescreen?

Which has superior text? Better colors?

These two monitors are similarly priced. I think the Samsung 22" might be a great value if it produces equal colors to the Dell 2007WFP. Does it?

Which monitor would you get if the price was the same?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: raildogg
I am upgrading from a 19" CRT. Should I get the Dell 20" 2007WFP widescreen or Samsung 22" 225BW widescreen?

Which has superior text? Better colors?

They both have high quality text but the Dell has much better colors. The Samsung is bigger but the same resolution, so you get a more pixelized picture.

These two monitors are similarly priced. I think the Samsung 22" might be a great value if it produces equal colors to the Dell 2007WFP. Does it?

Nope.

Which monitor would you get if the price was the same?

The Dell 2007WFP.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Spikey217

Originally posted by: Mem

I have a slight problem. I am running a 20WMGX2 with a eVGA 7900GT KO, latest drivers, but I can't seem to find nVidia's screen scaling options anywhere. It shows up for my friend running a BenQ202W with 6800LE.

Switch to the new Control Panel interface,then advanced view, Display>appearance>change flat scaling.


xtknight You're welcome,I believe Belinea are a German company so probably explains why are easy to find in Europe.

The weirdest thing is, it's not there. Do multiple monitors take away this function?

Spikey you need to assign a hot key to toggle centered mode on and off, here's how:
1) Open and enable nveiw Desktop manager
2) Select hot keys tab
3) Select toggle LCD scaling and click "add"
4) Now select your hot key... I use ctrl +F1

hit ok exit blah blah now you can toggle LCD scaling instantly on and off with ctrl + F1