LCD Buyer's Guide

[xtknight]

Added the Samsung 971P to the recommendations (gaming/better color). Great overall LCD (color reproduction is excellent and response time is respectable (tad slower than overdriven TN/MVA)). Also put the 2007FP under the NEC for general usage purposes.

Spikey217: I will have to see what happens with dual monitors (I can hook the 20WMGX2 up via both DVI/VGA to my card with Clone and try). I'll report on that later.

 

[jbbrown]

Originally posted by: xtknight
Added the Samsung 971P to the recommendations (gaming/better color). Great overall LCD (color reproduction is excellent and response time is respectable (tad slower than overdriven TN/MVA)). Also put the 2007FP under the NEC for general usage purposes.

Do you know what type of panel the 971P has? I have seen both PVA and S-PVA so I emailed Samsung about it and they told me it was S-PVA, so I was assuming it was an 8-bit panel.

 

[lepump]

my first LCD.. on loan for one day *joy*
the picture quality of the analog inputs on the samsung 215tw is awful..
tried connecting my external digital TV reciever with s-video.
maybe i did something stupid (wouldn't be unlike me at all)

can anyone tutor me a bit about this, please

*edit*
found out that my digi/settop-box can't convert the output signal to s-video.
got ok picture with composite

not a bad monitor this 215tw.. was kinda hoping it would suck/not be that much better than my current CRT.
Blast! Now I REALLY want this monitor

*edit #2*
wish I had a SCART-RGB adapter cable to try out.
probably would give a flawless result..(?)
anybody happen to have experience with this?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: jbbrown

Originally posted by: xtknight
Added the Samsung 971P to the recommendations (gaming/better color). Great overall LCD (color reproduction is excellent and response time is respectable (tad slower than overdriven TN/MVA)). Also put the 2007FP under the NEC for general usage purposes.

Do you know what type of panel the 971P has? I have seen both PVA and S-PVA so I emailed Samsung about it and they told me it was S-PVA, so I was assuming it was an 8-bit panel.

That's interesting. I always thought it was PVA. Samsung has never made any 19" S-PVA screens. On their TFT-LCD/monitor application site they don't list a panel like that (they probably haven't updated it). But they claim a 1500:1 contrast ratio, and to make that wild claim I don't see how it could be anything other than an S-PVA (higher contrast than PVA). I do remember the 770P (PVA) having a 1500:1 ratio. It was proven the 970P (PVA) used 2x2 dithering. To my knowledge, as they are sold now, PVAs have the option of using 6-bit or 8-bit and S-PVAs are always 8-bit.

The 178 viewing angle ratings indicate an S-PVA. OTOH, the 940t (PVA) has 178 ratings too. I wish reviewers paid attention to this. It's not that difficult to tell if an LCD uses dithering or not, provided you do the right tests.

Where did you e-mail Samsung btw? Samsung Electronics or their TFT-LCD panel divison, and where on their site? I always have trouble getting responses from these LCD companies. I assume it would be easier to get more accurate info if you emailed Samsung TFT-LCD (panel manufacturers).

 

[jbbrown]

Originally posted by: xtknight
That's interesting. I always thought it was PVA. Samsung has never made any 19" S-PVA screens. On their TFT-LCD/monitor application site they don't list a panel like that (they probably haven't updated it). But they claim a 1500:1 contrast ratio, and to make that wild claim I don't see how it could be anything other than an S-PVA (higher contrast than PVA). I do remember the 770P (PVA) having a 1500:1 ratio. It was proven the 970P (PVA) used 2x2 dithering. To my knowledge, as they are sold now, PVAs have the option of using 6-bit or 8-bit and S-PVAs are always 8-bit.

The 178 viewing angle ratings indicate an S-PVA. OTOH, the 940t (PVA) has 178 ratings too. I wish reviewers paid attention to this. It's not that difficult to tell if an LCD uses dithering or not, provided you do the right tests.

Where did you e-mail Samsung btw? Samsung Electronics or their TFT-LCD panel divison, and where on their site? I always have trouble getting responses from these LCD companies. I assume it would be easier to get more accurate info if you emailed Samsung TFT-LCD (panel manufacturers).

Yeah, talk about confusing. I wish there was a standard as to how they listed their products. You would think if they listed it as S-PVA on their site, that's what it would be, but who knows! How do you know if a monitor uses dithering? What tests should you do? I know someone reviewed this monitor, so I might ask them to check it out.

I went here to send the email to Samsung. I'm not sure if this is going to the panel manufacturers or not. When I click on 'Contact Us' on the TFT-LCD link you had above, the same type of form displays, though I'm not sure if it goes to the same place or not. If you know of a better contact on their site, let me know. I would definitely like to find out what panel the 971P has. Thanks!

 

[cbreathe]

Originally posted by: xtknight
Added the Samsung 971P to the recommendations (gaming/better color). Great overall LCD (color reproduction is excellent and response time is respectable (tad slower than overdriven TN/MVA)).

Relative merits of the 971P and the 931C?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: cbreathe

Originally posted by: xtknight
Added the Samsung 971P to the recommendations (gaming/better color). Great overall LCD (color reproduction is excellent and response time is respectable (tad slower than overdriven TN/MVA)).

Relative merits of the 971P and the 931C?

971P:
higher contrast
better vertical viewing angle

931C:
wider color gamut
faster response time

I haven't seen a single review of the 931C yet so I'm hesitant to recommend it at this point. If I had to guess, the 971P would still come out with better color reproduction.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: jbbrown

Originally posted by: xtknight
That's interesting. I always thought it was PVA. Samsung has never made any 19" S-PVA screens. On their TFT-LCD/monitor application site they don't list a panel like that (they probably haven't updated it). But they claim a 1500:1 contrast ratio, and to make that wild claim I don't see how it could be anything other than an S-PVA (higher contrast than PVA). I do remember the 770P (PVA) having a 1500:1 ratio. It was proven the 970P (PVA) used 2x2 dithering. To my knowledge, as they are sold now, PVAs have the option of using 6-bit or 8-bit and S-PVAs are always 8-bit.

The 178 viewing angle ratings indicate an S-PVA. OTOH, the 940t (PVA) has 178 ratings too. I wish reviewers paid attention to this. It's not that difficult to tell if an LCD uses dithering or not, provided you do the right tests.

Where did you e-mail Samsung btw? Samsung Electronics or their TFT-LCD panel divison, and where on their site? I always have trouble getting responses from these LCD companies. I assume it would be easier to get more accurate info if you emailed Samsung TFT-LCD (panel manufacturers).

Yeah, talk about confusing. I wish there was a standard as to how they listed their products. You would think if they listed it as S-PVA on their site, that's what it would be, but who knows! How do you know if a monitor uses dithering? What tests should you do? I know someone reviewed this monitor, so I might ask them to check it out.

I went here to send the email to Samsung. I'm not sure if this is going to the panel manufacturers or not. When I click on 'Contact Us' on the TFT-LCD link you had above, the same type of form displays, though I'm not sure if it goes to the same place or not. If you know of a better contact on their site, let me know. I would definitely like to find out what panel the 971P has. Thanks!

http://xtknight.atothosting.com/tools/radialgray.png
http://xtknight.atothosting.com/tools/radialgray2.png

If you see any moving pixels while viewing those images then your LCD definitely uses dithering. It's much easier to tell on DVI since VGA makes it noisy anyway. If there's lots of color channel variation (reddish/greenish hues for example) in that picture, your LCD isn't very suited to photo editing.

Here is more helpful info: http://geocities.com/icecow88/970p-dithering-en.html

Are you guys seeing lots of arcs (like 60) in those first two pictures like I am? I can't tell if it's my LCD or my weak 'GIMP' skills.

 

[frizzybangs]

Sry xtknight but I haven't been following in this thread and i guess i am too lazy to go back and check all 120 pages, but what do you think about the samsung 940bf as far as gaming is conserned?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: frizzybangs
Sry xtknight but I haven't been following in this thread and i guess i am too lazy to go back and check all 120 pages, but what do you think about the samsung 940bf as far as gaming is conserned?

I think that overall, it's the best gaming display there is, as you can see on the recommendations list.

 

[lepump]

xtknight: If I may be so bold to ask..
Do you happen to know anything about the BENQ T721?
Was building a bugdet system and thought about including it.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: lepump
xtknight: If I may be so bold to ask..
Do you happen to know anything about the BENQ T721?
Was building a bugdet system and thought about including it.

Nope, I've never even heard of it. That must be a European "value" model? I'd stay away from included monitors if I were you. Aren't you keeping your 215TW?

 

[lepump]

This system isn't for me.. It will be used mostly for text.
It was the cheapest one with DVI I could find.

Was a bit tough taking that lovely 215tw back.
But I think I'll wait and see what LED brings.

*edit*
And before I go LCD I want to see an LG L204WT-SF live.. (or similar TN)

 

[lepump]

~180? isn't bad for a 17''
Could buy 3.5 of those for the price of a single 215tw

*edit*
And I get to try out a monitor arm on it.
http://www.newstar.nl/eng_products/fpma-d600_info.html

Changed the order to the 19'' model (T921) only 40? more
text on a 17'' with 1280x1024 might be too small for some people. (could always tweak text size but..)

 

[lepump]

Why do so many LCDs have only a VGA port?
Isn't there a big difference between image quality with DVI?

I'd stay away from included monitors if I were you.

included monitors? what do you mean xtknight?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: lepump
Why do so many LCDs have only a VGA port?
Isn't there a big difference between image quality with DVI?

DVI costs more and there isn't a big difference if you have a decent graphics card.

I'd stay away from included monitors if I were you.

included monitors? what do you mean xtknight?

As in ones bundled with PCs (they are generally really cheap, unless it's an Alienware/Falcon Northwest). Dell's "value" monitors start with 'E' and that's what they bundle with most of their desktops.

 

[Spikey217]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: Spikey217

Originally posted by: Mem

I have a slight problem. I am running a 20WMGX2 with a eVGA 7900GT KO, latest drivers, but I can't seem to find nVidia's screen scaling options anywhere. It shows up for my friend running a BenQ202W with 6800LE.

Switch to the new Control Panel interface,then advanced view, Display>appearance>change flat scaling.


xtknight You're welcome,I believe Belinea are a German company so probably explains why are easy to find in Europe.

The weirdest thing is, it's not there. Do multiple monitors take away this function?

Spikey you need to assign a hot key to toggle centered mode on and off, here's how:
1) Open and enable nveiw Desktop manager
2) Select hot keys tab
3) Select toggle LCD scaling and click "add"
4) Now select your hot key... I use ctrl +F1

hit ok exit blah blah now you can toggle LCD scaling instantly on and off with ctrl + F1

I'm surprised it's listed there but not in the control panel itself.

However, it doesn't seem to work. When I have it enabled and something out of native res, the screen turns black and I can't do anything. Nothing shows up even though it opens. I think I'm done with nVidia LCD scaling, I'll just let the NEC stretch things out instead. Thanks for the help though.

 

[eeric]

ANYONE seen a review for 931C yet? man, i'm dying to see what pros say about it....

*edit* I found some talk about it on another thread http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?catid=31&threadid=1934387

 

[jbbrown]

Originally posted by: xtknight
http://xtknight.atothosting.com/tools/radialgray.png
http://xtknight.atothosting.com/tools/radialgray2.png

If you see any moving pixels while viewing those images then your LCD definitely uses dithering. It's much easier to tell on DVI since VGA makes it noisy anyway. If there's lots of color channel variation (reddish/greenish hues for example) in that picture, your LCD isn't very suited to photo editing.

Thanks for the links, that was very helpful. I can tell my work LCD is dithering big time. On that second image, pixels move and the black circle eventually disappears at about 140 degree viewing angle.

Originally posted by: xtknight
Here is more helpful info: http://geocities.com/icecow88/970p-dithering-en.html

Are you guys seeing lots of arcs (like 60) in those first two pictures like I am? I can't tell if it's my LCD or my weak 'GIMP' skills.

I'm not seeing anything near that many arcs - it's gotta be the LCD!

I am stilling waiting to hear about the panel type for the Samsung 971P. I'll let you know as soon as I find out.

 

[jbbrown]

Originally posted by: eeric
ANYONE seen a review for 931C yet? man, i'm dying to see what pros say about it....

*edit* I found some talk about it on another thread http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?catid=31&threadid=1934387

I know there were some reviews on Newegg.com, but the monitor went out of stock and it is not even listed on their site for some reason. They weren't professional reviews or anything, but there was some helpful info. Hopefully it gets posted back up sometime soon. From what I remember, there was fairly positive feedback. There were some complaints about the lack of adjustability.

I'll let you know if I find anything else.

 

[AnotherGuy]

I am leaning towards the Benq fp93gx since u put it right next to the samsung for gaming.... I am coming from a 19" crt and I am worried now gettin on the lcd wagon.... mostly on the gaming side of things.... is that still a good choice for that price.... or is it worth it to pay the extra $40-50 to get the samsung 940BF....

Any advice.... or should i wait for smthn new to come out soon?

My crt will die any day now.... giving me a lot of bad signs lately well its 5 years old anyways

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: AnotherGuy
I am leaning towards the Benq fp93gx since u put it right next to the samsung for gaming.... I am coming from a 19" crt and I am worried now gettin on the lcd wagon.... mostly on the gaming side of things.... is that still a good choice for that price.... or is it worth it to pay the extra $40-50 to get the samsung 940BF....

It's good for the price. The BenQ is ever so slightly faster but I'm more confident the Samsung would have better gamma settings.

Any advice.... or should i wait for smthn new to come out soon?

My crt will die any day now.... giving me a lot of bad signs lately well its 5 years old anyways

Buy now, regret later. I don't think it's worth waiting for anything at the moment.

 

[AnotherGuy]

yea looks like the right thing to do... im just gonna wait for a weekend sale or smthn maybe on the benq but the price at newegg is 235 not 210 as u had posted on the recomendations section... just so u know and yeah great thread dude

 

[niall]

xtknight: more kudos for an excellent starter on LCDs! (I knew AT would be where I'd find the info. )

A lot to digest; but from preliminary comparisons and checks of actual panels, would I be correct in forming an opinion that there is no such thing as a 17" DVI-capable true-8-bit LCD? ...or 19", but a very quick check on real monitors at a store clearly showed that graininess you talked about at 1280...

Or are the 16.2m colours interpolation of TNs actually pretty good as soon as you get to DVI and not analog? The analog 17"s and 19"s I looked at were... yucky. I'd do photo and video editing, so I do have some need for good quality.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: AnotherGuy
yea looks like the right thing to do... im just gonna wait for a weekend sale or smthn maybe on the benq but the price at newegg is 235 not 210 as u had posted on the recomendations section... just so u know and yeah great thread dude

Updated.

Originally posted by: niall
xtknight: more kudos for an excellent starter on LCDs! (I knew AT would be where I'd find the info. )

Glad I could help.

A lot to digest; but from preliminary comparisons and checks of actual panels, would I be correct in forming an opinion that there is no such thing as a 17" DVI-capable true-8-bit LCD? ...or 19", but a very quick check on real monitors at a store clearly showed that graininess you talked about at 1280...

You'd pretty much be right. There are a couple exceptions (they are 8-bit but the contrast sucks so they're not even any better in the end). And there's a couple $1000 19 inch 8-bit LCDs.

Or are the 16.2m colours interpolation of TNs actually pretty good as soon as you get to DVI and not analog? The analog 17"s and 19"s I looked at were... yucky. I'd do photo and video editing, so I do have some need for good quality.

I can't imagine buying an LCD without DVI. If you have a poor VGA output on your graphics card then the VGA may be quite a bit lower in contrast. On my system the only difference I notice is text clarity though.

If you're doing photo work I would avoid 17" and 19" LCDs altogether. A lot of 20"+ ones are 8-bit.