LCD Buyer's Guide

[eeric]

Originally posted by: niall
Seems like it!

Of course, I call and both stores that carry it are out of stock; "maybe in 6 days, we're waiting on the shipment".

Just to stymy me...

Hey niall, have you considered the Dell 2007WFP? It's going to be on sale tomorrow or one day next week during Dell Days of Deals in Canada. Last sale it was $379CAD so I assume it will be equal or lesser price this time around (I know because I'm waiting to pick one up). Thus the price will be pretty similar to the Viewsonic 20.1". About shipping, if you don't like your panel with Dell you can keep exchanging till you're satisfied I think, so bad courier handling shouldnt be a problem. Too bad our budgets can't afford 2407WFP, its $749CAD today .

 

[niall]

I've considered it, especially as it's either a P-MVA like the 2025 or a S-IPS - which would be better, yes? With still reasonable ~16ms max response times? And no backlighting or DVI glitch, and better with movies...

(One nitpick: for all the people loving it, why am I unable to find a good tech review of any Dell? I'd love at least a semblance of true spec and performance comparison...)

Considering the 6 day delay, I was going to check the Dell days anyway, but was not expecting the 2007 to show up. Now that it's 15 days and not 10, it indeed may show up. I'll wait til the end of next week. I don't think that "E207FP" is anywhere the same; from the price, must be a TN or MVA at most.

I'm just wondering why Dell is making such sales; trying to move overstock? With the popularity of the 2007, why would they have so many to put on sale - are they discounting any the quality S-IPS ones or only the lower P-MVAs? (It's the consumer advocate in me asking this. )

 

[johnnyMon]

Hey Everyone, I need some help with contrast level and setting up my monitor. I bought an HP LP2065, which is a 20" S-IPS panel. Use is general text, some video, and also photo editing. Photo editing is why I chose S-IPS. I would have gone for the 214T, which I think is better looking on text and video, but I wanted the shadow detail and image uniformity from different angles that S-IPS supposedly provides.

I don't have a calibration device, so I'm doing it right now by eye. When I adjust the monitor's contrast and brightness so it looks good on text and video, it shows no distinctions at all on LCDResource's black level test. So I looked in the color settings on my ATI Radeon video card and the gamma default is 1.0. When I moved it to about 2.2, I can see all the black levels on the test, and tremendous detail in photo shadows. But when it's set like that, the whole monitor looks washed out, including the colors in the photos. It's like there's a white backlight over everything washing out the colors and contrast. Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong? TIA!

 

[niall]

Originally posted by: eeric
Hey niall, have you considered the Dell 2007WFP? It's going to be on sale tomorrow or one day next week during Dell Days of Deals in Canada. Last sale it was $379CAD

I just checked - it's actually currently on sale for $419 - a $80 rebate! It's not marked on the Days of Deals section, so I don't know if it's today only... or if there will be a Day of Deal where it's even cheaper... gah! to buy or not to buy? Dell, you bastards! (Total would be $478, whereas the 2025 would be $422 after tax - which is about my upper limit for budgeting)

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: AnotherGuy
lol love is in the air....

Anyways Xt for the gazilionth time which 1 u think is worth getting... the Dell E207fpw or the sceptre 22" x22wg-Gamer.... that frikin dell costs much cheaper specially after u apply 1 of those 20% off coupons from ebay and free shipping that is offering at this time.... while this sceptre goes up to $344 and u gotta find the $30 mail in rebate somewhere...

What about the Dell 2007WFP @ $340? Much better than both of those LCDs, except in sheer bulk versus the Sceptre. I went on about 22" vs 20" a few posts ago in the 22" WIDESCREEN LCD POST. The Sceptre uses a 22" Chi Mei panel too.

I dont know if those 2 extra inches are worth almost $100... plus I have no clue what kinda panel that dell is... is it fast for gaming and everyday use... reading... wwatchin movies? assuming the dell is HDCP ready... ?!?!

I believe the e207 is HDCP-ready. You won't see me recommending it because it's just another TN panel. If it includes a Chunghwa TN (like the L204WT) I may consider it since they have the best blacks and good uniformity.

 

[eeric]

Originally posted by: niall

Originally posted by: eeric
Hey niall, have you considered the Dell 2007WFP? It's going to be on sale tomorrow or one day next week during Dell Days of Deals in Canada. Last sale it was $379CAD

I just checked - it's actually currently on sale for $419 - a $80 rebate! It's not marked on the Days of Deals section, so I don't know if it's today only... or if there will be a Day of Deal where it's even cheaper... gah! to buy or not to buy? Dell, you bastards! (Total would be $478, whereas the 2025 would be $422 after tax - which is about my upper limit for budgeting)

i've been keeping a very close eye on the 2007wfp lately. the current $419 sale price is NOT the dell days price. (the 2407wfp was on "sale" price too but was much higher than today's days deal) actually that sale ends today, but yea they extended to 15 days else the 2007wfp would have been tomorrow for sure :'( so i'd wait (just 1 more week maximum!)

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: johnnyMon
Hey Everyone, I need some help with contrast level and setting up my monitor. I bought an HP LP2065, which is a 20" S-IPS panel. Use is general text, some video, and also photo editing. Photo editing is why I chose S-IPS. I would have gone for the 214T, which I think is better looking on text and video, but I wanted the shadow detail and image uniformity from different angles that S-IPS supposedly provides.

Great choice. The LP2065 would rival or exceed the 214T except in sheer brightness.

I don't have a calibration device, so I'm doing it right now by eye. When I adjust the monitor's contrast and brightness so it looks good on text and video, it shows no distinctions at all on LCDResource's black level test. So I looked in the color settings on my ATI Radeon video card and the gamma default is 1.0. When I moved it to about 2.2, I can see all the black levels on the test, and tremendous detail in photo shadows.

1.0 gamma is mapped to 2.2 on PCs, and 1.0 on Macs is 1.8, so setting it to 2.2 on a PC is actually setting it to 2.2^2.2. Gamma is pretty confusing. Some apps make it so a lower gamma is brighter, and for others it's a higher.

Just so you know, don't touch the contrast or brightness settings in the graphics driver control panel. They clip the amount of possible colors because they adjust the white and black levels BEFORE they're sent to the monitor. Bad, bad idea. Gamma is a great adjustment though. The higher the gamma the more you'll be able to see.

I wouldn't move the gamma to higher than 1.2 if you want a balanced image. Then, you would have to increase the contrast to compensate for the extra gamma.

If you're using a Windows slider control for adjusting gamma and the minimum change you can do with your mouse is 0.20 for each step, try clicking on the slider and using your up and down arrows instead for finer adjustments. I know the NVIDIA one is like that.

But when it's set like that, the whole monitor looks washed out, including the colors in the photos. It's like there's a white backlight over everything washing out the colors and contrast. Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong? TIA!

Nothing wrong. I know exactly what you mean, and that's what happens when you put the gamma too high without adjusting contrast/brightness on your LCD. It's hard to do it manually since the calibration devices actually modify the whole gamma look-up table itself rather than using a single exponent like most gamma adjustments.

 

[johnnyMon]

You are awesome, xknight. I can now see shadow detail! I raised my video card's gamma to 1.18 and then adjusted my monitor. Made a huge difference. However, it's still not perfect, so I guess I have to go for a hardware-software calibration system. Thanks for the explanation about the multiplied gamma result when setting the video card's gamma - it was very informative.

The HP LP2065, by the way, has a $40 manufacturer rebate on through Oct. 31. I bought mine from PC Mall's retail store, but TechOnWeb has it for $390 + shipping. Link: http://www.techonweb.com/products/productdetail.aspx?id=C62138******=FG

 

[Mem]

UK members can pre-order the new Belinea 22" LCD 2225S1W only £234 inc VAT.

- 1680 x 1050 (WUXGA) Optimum Resolution
- 16.2 Million Colours
- 1000:1 Contrast Ratio
- 5ms Response Time
- 300 cd/m2 Brightness
- One Analogue Input
- Integrated Speakers
- TN+Film
- Warranty : 3 year on-site warranty

Link.

 

[AnotherGuy]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: AnotherGuy

What about the Dell 2007WFP @ $340? Much better than both of those LCDs, except in sheer bulk versus the Sceptre. I went on about 22" vs 20" a few posts ago in the 22" WIDESCREEN LCD POST. The Sceptre uses a 22" Chi Mei panel too.

I thought the Dell 2007wfp had so many problems lately.... like banding and more... plus i thot i read somewhere that its not that fast for gaming..... my first priority is gaming than watchin movies and then how beautiful the colors on it are... goin from here do u still think my best choice is the 2007wfp ???

and what do u mean by Chi Mei panel..

 

[eeric]

Originally posted by: AnotherGuy

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: AnotherGuy

What about the Dell 2007WFP @ $340? Much better than both of those LCDs, except in sheer bulk versus the Sceptre. I went on about 22" vs 20" a few posts ago in the 22" WIDESCREEN LCD POST. The Sceptre uses a 22" Chi Mei panel too.

I thought the Dell 2007wfp had so many problems lately.... like banding and more... plus i thot i read somewhere that its not that fast for gaming..... my first priority is gaming than watchin movies and then how beautiful the colors on it are... goin from here do u still think my best choice is the 2007wfp ???

and what do u mean by Chi Mei panel..

If you get an S-IPS panel it should be very good for gaming (like I hope to get when I get my 2007WFP).

 

[AnotherGuy]

and when is that eeric? or is it just a matter of luck to be able to get an s-ips...

 

[Paladin]

Here's a link to another forum discussing the 'panel lottery' that Dell has been using
link


Here's another thread talking about the 2007WFP and SPVA vs S-IPs.
Seems lately that most people that are in the US have been getting S-IPS, and everyone is excited about that.

Why is the S-IPS panel considered superior to the SPVA panel on the 2007WFP?

 

[AnotherGuy]

thnx for the link kevinc

fatwallet forums finally have some reviews of the sceptre 22" monitor and the guy states its perfect for gaming CS

[/quote]Originally posted by: jhch49
yeah it's worth it, after playing around with the color setting, this monitor's now perfect, just got out of an intense CS game and got 37-7 score!!........is it the monitor? haha who knows maybe i am just too good at CS.
[/quote]



http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/message...php?start=120&catid=18&threadid=659664

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: niall
I've considered it, especially as it's either a P-MVA like the 2025 or a S-IPS - which would be better, yes? With still reasonable ~16ms max response times? And no backlighting or DVI glitch, and better with movies...

S-PVA actually, so less chance of backlight bleeding than the P-MVAs.

(One nitpick: for all the people loving it, why am I unable to find a good tech review of any Dell? I'd love at least a semblance of true spec and performance comparison...)

ExtremeTech, Tom's Hardware Guide, BeHardware...
2007WFP: http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1945224,00.asp

Considering the 6 day delay, I was going to check the Dell days anyway, but was not expecting the 2007 to show up. Now that it's 15 days and not 10, it indeed may show up. I'll wait til the end of next week. I don't think that "E207FP" is anywhere the same; from the price, must be a TN or MVA at most.

It's a TN.

I'm just wondering why Dell is making such sales; trying to move overstock? With the popularity of the 2007, why would they have so many to put on sale - are they discounting any the quality S-IPS ones or only the lower P-MVAs? (It's the consumer advocate in me asking this. )

Rumor has it Dell will be exiting out of the monitor business soon, so I guess they're trying to sell the rest of their stock. I'm pretty sure you can still get a S-IPS at the cheap price.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: KevinC
Here's a link to another forum discussing the 'panel lottery' that Dell has been using
link


Here's another thread talking about the 2007WFP and SPVA vs S-IPs.
Seems lately that most people that are in the US have been getting S-IPS, and everyone is excited about that.

Why is the S-IPS panel considered superior to the SPVA panel on the 2007WFP?

People are just hellbent on getting an S-IPS, as if they really knew that the S-PVA was inferior. Since they can't tell by looking at the screen (or the panel info dialog anymore since Dell removed it), they decide to open it and find out. Then, if it's an S-PVA, they return it. Silly, isn't it? If the Samsung 215TW (better than most S-IPS LCDs for photo editing) is any indication, the Dell should have stellar image quality with an S-PVA panel. It wouldn't have as good a viewing angle though. I wouldn't be mad if I got an S-PVA...they do have higher contrast. For response time, the S-IPS would be a tad faster.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: AnotherGuy

Originally posted by: xtknight
What about the Dell 2007WFP @ $340? Much better than both of those LCDs, except in sheer bulk versus the Sceptre. I went on about 22" vs 20" a few posts ago in the 22" WIDESCREEN LCD POST. The Sceptre uses a 22" Chi Mei panel too.

I thought the Dell 2007wfp had so many problems lately.... like banding and more... plus i thot i read somewhere that its not that fast for gaming..... my first priority is gaming than watchin movies and then how beautiful the colors on it are... goin from here do u still think my best choice is the 2007wfp ???

and what do u mean by Chi Mei panel..

The Dell no longer has banding problems and it's faster for gaming than any of the Chi Mei 22" LCDs. Chi Mei is the only company whose 22" panels are being implemented at the moment. I still think the 2007WFP is the best choice.

 

[khas]

Any thoughts on the NU L921G ?

Supposedly an MVA panel with decent response time for gaming and true 8 bit color... all for what... $213? Am I missing anything there? I couldn't find any info on it anywhere in the forums... even though there's a review of it right here: http://www.anandtech.com/displays/showdoc.aspx?i=2289&p=6

Random thought: It seems that there are no good 17 inch panels (nor any good 19 inch widescreens?)... for a decent price anyways. I think I must be in the minority of people who prefer smaller panels.

 

[oseven]

Hey, anyone tried the Mirai DML-522W100? Can only find this review: http://www.trustedreviews.com/article.aspx?page=8077&head=0

(I apologize if this has been discussed elsewhere, I couldn't find anything)

To Mirai's homepage: http://www.nl-mirai.com/Uk/ProductDetails&product_id=43&cat_id=50

 

[AnotherGuy]

Anyways I ordered the sceptre now.... if i dont like it coscto is the best at returning... but as long as no major problems ima keep it...

 

[Dainas]

You guys need to put up the NEC 1740CX, considering you can often walk out of a store with it for under $200. Its the only monitor around that price with no picture paticularities(both DVI and VGA are flawless, no ghosting at 8ms and a decent 0.264 mm pixel size).

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: khas
Any thoughts on the NU L921G ?

Supposedly an MVA panel with decent response time for gaming and true 8 bit color... all for what... $213? Am I missing anything there? I couldn't find any info on it anywhere in the forums... even though there's a review of it right here: http://www.anandtech.com/displays/showdoc.aspx?i=2289&p=6

I can't say I've ever come across the 'NU' brand except in that Anandtech review. I honestly have no idea. I just tend to stay away from brands I don't know about unless there's some compelling reason (like style of bezel). I know it doesn't have true 8-bit color (despite the reviews' mistaken claims). No MVAs 19" or under are true 8-bit. It does seem cheap, and for that reason, I would avoid it. Clearly even though it may have the same panel, it could have any really cheap half-working inverter and what not. Since no one has even posted on the forums about them, we have no way of knowing they even operate for more than a month. I'd think the 19" MVA panel alone would cost >$200. I know that 20" S-IPS widescreen panels go for over $300 alone. My worries are warranted here, no? Granted, Dell is selling some monitors for really cheap, but they are a big company and they can afford to take a loss on a couple products, so loss of quality isn't my first thought.

Random thought: It seems that there are no good 17 inch panels (nor any good 19 inch widescreens?)... for a decent price anyways. I think I must be in the minority of people who prefer smaller panels.

Yeah, definitely. I don't really like 19" screens because of the huge dot pitch and typically low image quality (they're mostly TNs), and 17" ones are just too small for my field of vision. 20" widescreen seems about right for me. 24" wide may be a tad big but I could see myself using a 23" wide.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: oseven
Hey, anyone tried the Mirai DML-522W100? Can only find this review: http://www.trustedreviews.com/article.aspx?page=8077&head=0

(I apologize if this has been discussed elsewhere, I couldn't find anything)

To Mirai's homepage: http://www.nl-mirai.com/Uk/ProductDetails&product_id=43&cat_id=50

Wow, they list the complete response time: 5 ms (Tr:2 = Tf:3)

That gets them some extra points from me right away. I have not heard about this particular one. It sounds like it'll be on par with or above the other 22" Chi Mei-based LCDs. Image quality doesn't sound too thrilling in the review.

 

[imported_XyliX]

I am looking for a 20" non-widescreen monitor with a native resolution of 1600x1200. The Dell 2007FP no longer seems to ship with a S-IPS panel, atleast not to Sweden. I need a monitor that provides decent performance in games and it must also be good for general usage.

The suggested NEC LCD2070NX does not get very high recomendation on the decent gaming list. Does anyone have any experience of the Sony SDM-S205F. It's seems to have an S-IPS panel, but I don't know if it's 8-bit.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: XyliX
I am looking for a 20" non-widescreen monitor with a native resolution of 1600x1200. The Dell 2007FP no longer seems to ship with a S-IPS panel, atleast not to Sweden. I need a monitor that provides decent performance in games and it must also be good for general usage.

The suggested NEC LCD2070NX does not get very high recomendation on the decent gaming list. Does anyone have any experience of the Sony SDM-S205F. It's seems to have an S-IPS panel, but I don't know if it's 8-bit.

The LG L2000C seems like your best choice at the moment. LesNumeriques says it's comparable to the ViewSonic VX2025WM, which is a very fast LCD. The L2000C is a true 8-bit S-IPS panel with no glossy coating. I'm going to replace the 2070NX with the L2000C after having coming across that review.

http://www.lesnumeriques.com/article-203-1109-35.html (needs to be translated)

A fast, good [panel] for the [games]. In the [games], perceived remanence is? comparable with that of screens MVA 8 ms, standard ViewSonic VX2025wm and Belinea 10 20 30W. It is thus a little higher than that of the screen Nec 20WGX ², which remains the absolute reference in 20 inches for the moment, and a little lower than that of the 20 " in TN [panels] (Samsung 204B, BenQ FP202W?). It is thus a good result. A [CRT user] is likely to be a little disturbed at the beginning by certain small trails or of small blurs, but one needs a good eye to detect them, straightforwardly to see voluntarily seeking them [you have to look for them to see them]. In any event, one is accustomed very quickly to this returned: the screen is completely playable in a context except competition of FPS.

From what I can tell they say it's good for everyone except the most picky competitive FPS players (i.e. CAL, QuakeCon, etc). You're not going to get any better for a 20" 4:3 LCD though. They say the colors are a little washed out at default gamma settings. If you mess around with the gamma it can end up to be a very high-quality/photo editing screen.

before calibration
after calibration

Those default settings do look pretty bad. My guess is the contrast was just too high.

They also reviewed the SDM-S205F. It is poor in the remanence (response time) category. http://www.lesnumeriques.com/article-203-1003-16.html