LCD Buyer's Guide

[xtknight]

Black Friday Deals that are Worth It
(not necessarily the best, but best for the price by a large margin)

Samsung 225BW@Circuit City - $249.99
BenQ FP241W (highly recommended)@Newegg - $799.99
Westinghouse LCM-22w2@Best Buy - $199.99
Samsung 931BW@Best Buy - $129.99
...more to come

 

[SLM Crew Chief]

Got my replacement Dell 2007WFP yesterday and got it hooked up and using it right now. My other one was an S-IPS panel, this time I got the S-PVA one. Somehow it just doesn't look right, color wise. Not sure what but just not "right" compared to the other one. I'm gonna have to try some Oblivion and F.E.A.R. on it and see how that goes. It also looks like you are looking thru something like a fine, bent up window screen and it won't clean off. Is that normal for this type of pannel or did I manage to get my paws on another defective panel?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: SLM Crew Chief
Got my replacement Dell 2007WFP yesterday and got it hooked up and using it right now. My other one was an S-IPS panel, this time I got the S-PVA one. Somehow it just doesn't look right, color wise. Not sure what but just not "right" compared to the other one. I'm gonna have to try some Oblivion and F.E.A.R. on it and see how that goes. It also looks like you are looking thru something like a fine, bent up window screen and it won't clean off. Is that normal for this type of pannel or did I manage to get my paws on another defective panel?

Probably normal, sadly. I know the Samsung 215TW's S-PVA doesn't look like that though, so the S-PVA used in the Dell must be quite inferior. S-IPS panels are able to display more saturated colors at a lower luminance. They block extra light and light seeping better too, because they block twice as much light. It could be because of uncalibrated gamma as well. LG Philips LCD does a better job calibrating gamma out of the factory than Samsung, though the Samsung may be capable of a little better after being calibrated by a colorimeter device.

 

[Gannon]

May I add that a HUGE problem with LCD's is that they become unviewable in large amounts of sunlight or other light that effectively "washes out" the light being emitted from the backlamp.

If you've ever taken your Gameboy/ Gameboy SP outside on a Sunnyday you know it's a royal pain in the ass to see the screen with all that excess light drowning out the meager backlight of the LCD.

I think this is why LCD's have stronger brightness and are "Strongly" backlit is to prevent the light "drown out" effect.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Gannon
May I add that a HUGE problem with LCD's is that they become unviewable in large amounts of sunlight or other light that effectively "washes out" the light being emitted from the backlamp.

If you've ever taken your Gameboy/ Gameboy SP outside on a Sunnyday you know it's a royal pain in the ass to see the screen with all that excess light drowning out the meager backlight of the LCD.

I think this is why LCD's have stronger brightness and are "Strongly" backlit is to prevent the light "drown out" effect.

This is what the so-called anti-reflective/glossy coating on some LCDs does. It prevents that light being scattered amongst the panel and distorting your view. Instead, however, you get a huge spot of glare on your screen. But the screen is still easier to read.

Reflective (full reflection-powered) and transflective (half backlight/half reflection) LCDs use the sun's power to their advantage and use ambient light as a 'frontlight'.

 

[Maper]

Does anyone know the black level of HP LP2065?.

The contrast ratio is not vey high.

Regards

 

[SLM Crew Chief]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: SLM Crew Chief
Got my replacement Dell 2007WFP yesterday and got it hooked up and using it right now. My other one was an S-IPS panel, this time I got the S-PVA one. Somehow it just doesn't look right, color wise. Not sure what but just not "right" compared to the other one. I'm gonna have to try some Oblivion and F.E.A.R. on it and see how that goes. It also looks like you are looking thru something like a fine, bent up window screen and it won't clean off. Is that normal for this type of pannel or did I manage to get my paws on another defective panel?

Probably normal, sadly. I know the Samsung 215TW's S-PVA doesn't look like that though, so the S-PVA used in the Dell must be quite inferior. S-IPS panels are able to display more saturated colors at a lower luminance. They block extra light and light seeping better too, because they block twice as much light. It could be because of uncalibrated gamma as well. LG Philips LCD does a better job calibrating gamma out of the factory than Samsung, though the Samsung may be capable of a little better after being calibrated by a colorimeter device.

[sarcasm on]Great![sarcasm off] This is getting annoying. There is also very little change in the brightness from about 30 to 90 and it doesn't get near as bright as the first one (S-IPS) did. Also, when viewing your grayscale test, I cannot see any difference when viewed straight on but if I get off to one side some I can see the changes starting at around 7,7,7. What's that all about? Is that normal too? I'm beginning to see why the whole S-IPS vs. S-PVA is such a big deal.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Maper
Does anyone know the black level of HP LP2065?.

The contrast ratio is not vey high.

Regards

By specification:

White level: "Up to 300 nits"
Contrast: "Up to 800:1"
Black level: As low as 0.375 nits

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: SLM Crew Chief
[sarcasm on]Great![sarcasm off] This is getting annoying. There is also very little change in the brightness from about 30 to 90 and it doesn't get near as bright as the first one (S-IPS) did.

That's weird. S-PVAs are generally known to be brighter.

Also, when viewing your grayscale test, I cannot see any difference when viewed straight on but if I get off to one side some I can see the changes starting at around 7,7,7. What's that all about? Is that normal too?

On multidomain panels like S-PVA, brightness is emitted from the sides of the crystal. So, it gets brighter when you look to the side, and it gets darker at a zero degree angle.

It is normal for an S-PVA or P-MVA. S-PVAs are still better than TNs though.

I'm beginning to see why the whole S-IPS vs. S-PVA is such a big deal.

Perhaps so...there's good S-PVAs and there's bad S-PVAs. Though all have the domain brightness 'issue', the one in the 215TW is so bright that it's fine at zero degrees. I'm still wary of taking the 2007WFP off the recommendations list as there really isn't anything better at that price point.

 

[Pugnate]

Hi xtknight,

I got my VX922 the other day. I really appreciate your help.

I really like it, except I think it damaged my eyes with the brightness. Plus there is a stuck pixel.

 

[DustyNL]

Well I managed to return my 215TW to the dealer, there were some troubles because I opened the package, but in the end it didn't matter.

So now I will begin my search all over for a gaming/multimedia widescreen :frown:
Which one would you suggest XTknight ?
I see in the list the NEC would be 1st, but I DO NOT like any glossy coating.
I have it on my laptop but it bothers me like hell, every light in the environment is being reflected.
Also I liked the size of the 21 inch, better than 20 inch so I guess I will be looking for 21 to 22 inch in the first place

 

[Maper]

Anandtech doesn't seem to review LCD panels any more. Because of their reviews I bought the best panel I've ever had: a Samsung 193P.

So Xnight thank you very much for your time.

Well, this is the question: Which one, HP L2065 or Samsung 214T?

I need good colors and very good black level.

Both monitors have a good response time for me (8ms) and both are 4:3 (this is what I need).

Regards

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Maper
Anandtech doesn't seem to review LCD panels any more. Because of their reviews I bought the best panel I've ever had: a Samsung 193P.

So Xnight thank you very much for your time.

Well, this is the question: Which one, HP L2065 or Samsung 214T?

I need good colors and very good black level.

Both monitors have a good response time for me (8ms) and both are 4:3 (this is what I need).

Regards

For sheer contrast and black level the 214T would probably win, but the LP2065 has more accurate colors. If you want a monitor for photo editing, get the LP2065. If you want one for entertainment, get the 214T.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/other/display/20-21inch-3_8.html

The 214T should be about the same speed as the LP2065. Acceptable, I'd say, for most gamers, but certainly not a CRT-speed panel. Colors are awesome on the 214T if you adjust the gamma a tad.

 

[Baloonsquad]

Great guide - but I was wondering if you could reccomend any other particular models for gaming that are around 20" widescreen. Possibly in the $300-400 range?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Baloonsquad
Great guide - but I was wondering if you could reccomend any other particular models for gaming that are around 20" widescreen. Possibly in the $300-400 range?

LG L204WT, Dell 2007WFP, LG L203WTX, Samsung 205BW (a little cheaper)...

I would avoid the Sceptre 20"w. The BenQ FP202W isn't too hot either. The NEC LCD2070WNX (TN) may be worth a try but I haven't seen any reviews of it. I've never seen an NEC get a poor review, aside from really old models.

 

[Bonesdad]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: Baloonsquad
Great guide - but I was wondering if you could reccomend any other particular models for gaming that are around 20" widescreen. Possibly in the $300-400 range?

LG L204WT, Dell 2007WFP, LG L203WTX, Samsung 205BW (a little cheaper)...

I would avoid the Sceptre 20"w. The BenQ FP202W isn't too hot either. The NEC LCD2070WNX (TN) may be worth a try but I haven't seen any reviews of it. I've never seen an NEC get a poor review, aside from really old models.

It sounds like the Dell is a bit of a crapshoot...are the others more "stable" in terms of what kind of panel you will get?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Bonesdad

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: Baloonsquad
Great guide - but I was wondering if you could reccomend any other particular models for gaming that are around 20" widescreen. Possibly in the $300-400 range?

LG L204WT, Dell 2007WFP, LG L203WTX, Samsung 205BW (a little cheaper)...

I would avoid the Sceptre 20"w. The BenQ FP202W isn't too hot either. The NEC LCD2070WNX (TN) may be worth a try but I haven't seen any reviews of it. I've never seen an NEC get a poor review, aside from really old models.

It sounds like the Dell is a bit of a crapshoot...are the others more "stable" in terms of what kind of panel you will get?

The Dell 2007FP/Dell 2007WFP are the only ones I know of that are dynamic. The Samsung 225BW may be changing from a Chi Mei TN to a Samsung TN, but no major change there.

 

[SLM Crew Chief]

Originally posted by: Bonesdad

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: Baloonsquad
Great guide - but I was wondering if you could reccomend any other particular models for gaming that are around 20" widescreen. Possibly in the $300-400 range?

LG L204WT, Dell 2007WFP, LG L203WTX, Samsung 205BW (a little cheaper)...

I would avoid the Sceptre 20"w. The BenQ FP202W isn't too hot either. The NEC LCD2070WNX (TN) may be worth a try but I haven't seen any reviews of it. I've never seen an NEC get a poor review, aside from really old models.

It sounds like the Dell is a bit of a crapshoot...are the others more "stable" in terms of what kind of panel you will get?

Just wanted to let you know that I have had two Dell 2007WFP's. Both were manufactured in September of '06 in Mexico and one was an S-IPS and this one is a S-PVA. I'll probably end up keeping this one but like the S-IPS pannel much better. The back light bleeding in the corners of this one are horrible but I just can't swing the $615 plus for the NEC 20WMGX2. I wish I could.

 

[DustyNL]

Originally posted by: DustyNL
Well I managed to return my 215TW to the dealer, there were some troubles because I opened the package, but in the end it didn't matter.

So now I will begin my search all over for a gaming/multimedia widescreen :frown:
Which one would you suggest XTknight ?
I see in the list the NEC would be 1st, but I DO NOT like any glossy coating.
I have it on my laptop but it bothers me like hell, every light in the environment is being reflected.
Also I liked the size of the 21 inch, better than 20 inch so I guess I will be looking for 21 to 22 inch in the first place

kick
and is there any experience with the samsung 225BW ??
seems like its getting good reviews, only con is backlight bleading

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: DustyNL
Well I managed to return my 215TW to the dealer, there were some troubles because I opened the package, but in the end it didn't matter.

So now I will begin my search all over for a gaming/multimedia widescreen :frown:
Which one would you suggest XTknight ?
I see in the list the NEC would be 1st, but I DO NOT like any glossy coating.
I have it on my laptop but it bothers me like hell, every light in the environment is being reflected.
Also I liked the size of the 21 inch, better than 20 inch so I guess I will be looking for 21 to 22 inch in the first place

Hmm... well, I would say the Samsung 225BW for a 22" multimedia widescreen. I wish there were more S-PVA and S-IPS panels out there but alas there aren't. I don't think that you will get any input lag with the 225BW.

 

[Bonesdad]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: Bonesdad

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: Baloonsquad
Great guide - but I was wondering if you could reccomend any other particular models for gaming that are around 20" widescreen. Possibly in the $300-400 range?

LG L204WT, Dell 2007WFP, LG L203WTX, Samsung 205BW (a little cheaper)...

I would avoid the Sceptre 20"w. The BenQ FP202W isn't too hot either. The NEC LCD2070WNX (TN) may be worth a try but I haven't seen any reviews of it. I've never seen an NEC get a poor review, aside from really old models.

It sounds like the Dell is a bit of a crapshoot...are the others more "stable" in terms of what kind of panel you will get?

The Dell 2007FP/Dell 2007WFP are the only ones I know of that are dynamic. The Samsung 225BW may be changing from a Chi Mei TN to a Samsung TN, but no major change there.

Well, the S-IPS panel would be the favorite, but is the S-PVA panel generally superior to the TN panels on the LG models? At least for gaming and general use.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Bonesdad
Well, the S-IPS panel would be the favorite, but is the S-PVA panel generally superior to the TN panels on the LG models? At least for gaming and general use.

I would go with the LG model to be honest. The S-PVA (a mediocre one) in the 2007WFP doesn't sound too appealing and I'm debating whether to keep it on the recommendations list. I'll move it below the L204WT for now and make a note that it's because of the likelihood of getting an S-PVA.

 

[xboxist]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: DustyNL
Well I managed to return my 215TW to the dealer, there were some troubles because I opened the package, but in the end it didn't matter.

So now I will begin my search all over for a gaming/multimedia widescreen :frown:
Which one would you suggest XTknight ?
I see in the list the NEC would be 1st, but I DO NOT like any glossy coating.
I have it on my laptop but it bothers me like hell, every light in the environment is being reflected.
Also I liked the size of the 21 inch, better than 20 inch so I guess I will be looking for 21 to 22 inch in the first place

Hmm... well, I would say the Samsung 225BW for a 22" multimedia widescreen. I wish there were more S-PVA and S-IPS panels out there but alas there aren't. I don't think that you will get any input lag with the 225BW.

Is there a page on this 57-page monster that could tell me what specific models use either a S-PVA or S-IPS panel?

Also... my friend is raving about the 24" BenQ LCD (~$800). What do you know about that one? Thanks!

 

[niggles]

OK, what ever happened with the entire DRM issue with Vista and downloaded media with monitors. As I understand it all that is required is a monitor that runs HDMI, is that correct? I am also looking at the BenQ and am trying to figure out if it will work for the DRM rules that will be part of Vista (last I heard).
xtKnight, any assistance would be appreciated. Cheers

p.s. xboxist: http://www.benq.com/products/LCD/?product=812&page=features

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: xboxist
Is there a page on this 57-page monster that could tell me what specific models use either a S-PVA or S-IPS panel?

The first. Both in the recommendations, and it also suggests methods for determining the panel (<=160/160 viewing angle=TN, 176/176 viewing angle=P-MVA/PVA, 178/178 viewing angle=S-PVA/S-IPS). And, flatpanels.dk panel search.

Also... my friend is raving about the 24" BenQ LCD (~$800). What do you know about that one? Thanks!

I recommend it for multimedia. It has some input lag just like the Dell, but so far it's unknown if it's worse or better. Some tests have contradicted each other. What we do know is that color reproduction is far superior to the Dell.