LCD Buyer's Guide

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Mystiqq
6-bit S-IPS? No way...

Yes way...according to the results of a couple sites. They say it experienced lots of banding, and Rasmus, LCD expert at flatpanels.dk, tested it and swears it was a 6-bit panel.

Anyways, if i would get buy L2000C and find out (the hard way) that its 6-bit when it clearly says its 8-bit on their site, i would probably shove it up in LG's ***. Not to mention the website specifically mentions " S-IPS Technology" in the specs.

http://us.lge.com/products/model/detail...ucts_commercial_20%20inch_L2000C.jhtml

I read somewhere that the banding doesnt exist in the newer L2000C's, only on the first/old ones had it. However, "image persistance" (spelling?) ive seen mentioned with this model.

I've heard of "image persistence" with a lot of S-IPS panels. I don't know what the deal is, but my NEC 20WMGX2 doesn't exhibit it (though a couple of peoples' GX2s do).

 

[IKeelU]

Received my 2007FPW two weeks ago. I didn't even know about the lottery fiasco until now, but I did know about the banding issues and I found out for myself that it only happens in multimedia/gaming image modes (which leads me to believe that these monitors originally came with one of those modes preselected, leading to the widespread complaints about this monitor having banding issues).

I'm was extremely pleased with the screen (and I still am), so I checked the service menu and it turns out I have an S-IPS panel after all.

Anyway, I feel like I dodged a bullet. I feel bad for all you guys who got screwed on this and I think it's pretty crappy on Dell's part. I will definitely think twice before purchasing a Dell product again.

 

[acrabb]

Originally posted by: Butterbean
SLM Crew Chief:
Just be careful with Dell and keep after them on the return. Don't be too sure things are resolved with Dell - keep after them. I am STILL trying to get them to follow through on returns. Someone at Dell OK'ed my return and told me they will send shipping labels to print (I have 2 monitors to return because they never included the first return label they said they would send with the replacement monitor and then I never got it).

When I called again for the labels with all the "case numbers" etc etc the new rep still wanted to start over as to why I am returning monitor (or mon-ee-tor as they call it). Again they start to tell me I need a technical review. Again they wave it when I tell them they switched panels after I bought monitor. Again they tell me I will get emails with labels for UPS. It's like "Groundhog Day" lol.

They finally sent me a label for one monitor and not the other. So after a week of calls and around 15 reps I am still trying to get one monitor back to Dell. Of course after all this I am suppossed to get a credit and I am doubtful that that will be a problem free transaction.

I almost got billed for a second monitor because they didn't send me a label so I could make return in 5 days. Then I made a call and a rep "fixed" problem - but then another person I called the next day still had me as due to be billed soon - even as she was trying to help me get a shipping label!

People need to be very aware before to get into this lottery fiasco. Sure they have generous return policy, sure they say "OK" on the phone - but then nothing often happens and its back to square one. This all reminds me of the time I tried to end my AOL account and they had tricks to keep you stuck. The NY attotrney General finally fined them (As if they cared!)

Sounds all too familiar. Currently, I have 2 case #'s and promises of what they will do - interestingly enough, for some reason that can't do this until 24 - 48 hrs AFTER I place the order. I really feel like they have given me the shaft. I was unhappy to receive a dude in the panel lottery. However, to "upgrade" to a Samsung 215TW will cost me shipping (to return the 2007 wfp) AND a 15% coupon (this came with a laptop that I purchased ~1 month ago). This really irritates me - I used the coupon for the piece of junk monitor. However, after returning, I can not use the coupon again. The way I look at is that I have no product in my possession that used the coupon (actually it was a gift for signing up to become a Dell Preferred Account Member) - imagine how I would have been treated if I was not a "Preferred Member". Maybe I am missing something, but I am a Preferred Member, stockholder, and recent buyer of a $2000+ laptop and they won't honor a 15% off discount code that was only used on a product that I am returning I am about to give up on them, but they have finally offered (but I dont know if I will really receive this) the 215TW for ~$385 (509.95 - 15% std Dell coupon for $400+ purchase - $50 coupon). Additionally, they have promised to "see what they can do" on the shipping - AGAIN, they will call me after I order to let me know! Now, I have spent ~3hrs (maybe more) on the phone with them in the last 24 hrs - each time, retelling my story to someone with a strong accent that makes it difficult for me understand what is being offered (in fairness they are having just as much trouble understanding me). Now, if I could just start all over again - the price of that NEC (without these hassles) seems like a steal. I just hope that one way or another I can resolve this tomorrow. By the way, they finally put me through to sales to place my order. Once I questioned appling these promised deals, I was told I would have to wait until I received an email instructing how to do it. I told the sales rep that I had an email from Dell with case # and I was trying to open the message, but for some reason it was slow to open. She told me that she needed to call me back in 15 minutes - that was 3 hours ago! Please forgive me, but I have not proof read this - I can't relive it again!

 

[SLM Crew Chief]

Originally posted by: Butterbean
SLM Crew Chief:

I have all the same problems . It's like you been looking at my monitor.

Just been looking at mine, lol! So glad it's going away.


Great! The return department sucks too. This is gonna be fun, I can see this now. It took me three people and almost an hour just to get them to agree to take it back. I pretty well climbed down some "supervisor's" throat over the phone. Granted mines over the 21 day return policy (by 2 whole days) when I started this. They wanted to exchange it again and told them no, I already replaced their junk, yes I told them junk, with a product from a company that doesn't bait and switch. That pretty well shut him up and got him to take it back. By the time I was done I so ticked off I was ready to fly to India and shove this monitor somewhere the um...... sun don't shine.


I was very hesitant to buy from Dell in the first place and I guess I should have gone with my gut instinct that was telling me DON'T DO IT over and over. Chalk this up to another life lesson guys and stay away from anything that has Dell on it. At least that's what I'm going to do!

 

[paulhamm]

Well its time. The old horse just aint got much left in her. Cann't say it aint expected, been a might flaky for the past year, bad cap I think. Cann't say it was a bad run, bought her back in 97. Been a very good run for this old Viewsonic PT813. Yep it IS TIME.

So I have a 4 port Belkin VGA KVM which still works great and want to keep. Been looking at the 3007wfp Seems kind a nice but not going to play well with the KVM. So I got to thinkin 2 x 1600x1200 20" LCDs pivoted would be almost as good as the 2560x1600 of the 3007wfp. I can only hook up one of them to the kvm but that is no real problem. I will dual head my primary use box and just ignore the second display while I am working with one of the other systems.

So what is the best bet/s for 20" 4:3 LCDs at this time?

Seems like the Dell is a panel crap shoot, I really do not want to get involved with it. The Viewsonic vp2030b seems like a good all around display though it seems to need a bit of calibration, should not be a problem. The HP LP2065 gets some love from xtknight. Kind of leaning toward the Viewsonic for obvious reasons but I am flexible. Any other choices? Lets hear what ye'olde peanutty gallery has to say.




Made a few grammer edits.

 

[Pyrii]

My vp2030b should be coming in the next day or so to replace this perfectly fine vp930 at no extra charge XD Well, apart from a few stuck pixels.

 

[Mystiqq]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: Mystiqq
6-bit S-IPS? No way...

Yes way...according to the results of a couple sites. They say it experienced lots of banding, and Rasmus, LCD expert at flatpanels.dk, tested it and swears it was a 6-bit panel.

Just curious, is there any way to actually test this? I mean, other than seeing the possible dithering or such?

Ill definitely look for this in the HP...

 

[pcmodem]

Anyone heard anything about the Viewsonic VP2330wb?

1900x1200
23" viewable

Nice spec's, but I'm curious as to how it really looks and performs.


Am considering adding a second VP930b, to go alongside my existing VP930b, and buying one of those dual monitor stands.
-PCM

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Hakoku
Xtknight, do you think it would be better for me to get this

Syntax Olevia 323V 23" HD Ready LCD TV w/NTSC Tuner
1366 x 768 resolution, 1600:1 Dynamic Contrast ratio, 16:9 aspect ratio
178 degree ultra-wide viewing angle, PC input-HDMI, VGA, 10W speakers


Over one of the 22 inch monitors? the price is basicly the exact same as the lcd monitors but I can't tell which would be the better buy and which would be better for my xbox 360.

If it's exclusively for the Xbox, then just get the LCD TV I guess. LCD TVs aren't my area of expertise but the Olevias are generally good and tend to use high quality S-IPS panels.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Pyrii
Hiyas, found this place after Viewsonic told me that they can't immediately replace my vp930 (v3) and offered an vp2030b instead. Not much seems to be out there, the only statistical differences are that the vp2030b has a better pixel pitch, but the vp930 has a better contrast ratio.

Although that said, my vp930 has this weird coating on it which if you look closely, gives this strange colour speckling effect whcih is very noticable on whites.

I was gonna take them up on the offer after what I read here, but thier phone lines are now closed so I thought as I have time, why not ask your opinions. O' wise ones XD Should I take the vp2030b?

I do some gaming, but mostly images (digital drawing, web graphics) and 3D Modelling.

PS. I've also been hunting for a USB hub as I don't want to have to keep my iiyama HM903DT turned on all the time to use my USB devices. vp2030b could be an answer to that prayer too.

The VP2030b sounds decent, but you may prefer the HP LP2065. The VP930b indeed seems 'weird' on white colors. I don't know what it is but it's a rather impure display.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Kung Foo
Still looking for a good 20.1" widescreen LCD..

Now I stumbled on an interesting Philips 200WP7ES 20.1" offer.
Any info about this LCD?
At least according to TFT Central and flatpanels.dk it has LG.Philips 8 ms (g2g) S-IPS LM201W01 panel.
Sounds good, right?

In theory, yes. I will have to do more research on the Philips S-IPS panels. Soon....soon. Unless there's some serious problem with that model (that even novice reviewers would catch), I wouldn't doubt that it's better than 90% of the 20" widescreens out there just based off the panel.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: paulhamm
Well its time. The old horse just aint got much left in her. Cann't say it aint expected, been a might flaky for the past year, bad cap I think. Cann't say it was a bad run, bought her back in 97. Been a very good run for this old Viewsonic PT813. Yep it IS TIME.

So I have a 4 port Belkin VGA KVM which still works great and want to keep. Been looking at the 3007wfp Seems kind a nice but not going to play well with the KVM. So I got to thinkin 2 x 1600x1200 20" LCDs pivoted would be almost as good as the 2560x1600 of the 3007wfp. I can only hook up one of them to the kvm but that is no real problem. I will dual head my primary use box and just ignore the second display while I am working with one of the other systems.

So what is the best bet/s for 20" 4:3 LCDs at this time?

Well, it depends on what you use it for (Windows apps, gaming, photo editing, etc). Overall I would have to recommend the HP LP2065.

Seems like the Dell is a panel crap shoot, I really do not want to get involved with it. The Viewsonic vp2030b seems like a good all around display though it seems to need a bit of calibration, should not be a problem. The HP LP2065 gets some love from xtknight. Kind of leaning toward the Viewsonic for obvious reasons but I am flexible. Any other choices? Lets hear what ye'olde peanutty gallery has to say.

Yeah the VP2030b is indeed good but like you say it will need calibration to look its best, and it may be a 6-bit display. High quality 20" 4:3 LCDs are not in abundance these days, but the HP LP2065 and the Dell 2007FP (same underlying panels) are the best at the moment sporting true 8-bit color.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Mystiqq

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: Mystiqq
6-bit S-IPS? No way...

Yes way...according to the results of a couple sites. They say it experienced lots of banding, and Rasmus, LCD expert at flatpanels.dk, tested it and swears it was a 6-bit panel.

Just curious, is there any way to actually test this? I mean, other than seeing the possible dithering or such?

Ill definitely look for this in the HP...

Test if it's an S-IPS by looking for a purple haze on black at an angle. It should also have no grayscale inversion at different angles.

6-bit panels have more color variations and gradation at the darker end of the gradient.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: pcmodem
Anyone heard anything about the Viewsonic VP2330wb?

1900x1200
23" viewable

Nice spec's, but I'm curious as to how it really looks and performs.


Am considering adding a second VP930b, to go alongside my existing VP930b, and buying one of those dual monitor stands.
-PCM

Check out prad.de's review of the VP2330wb (it was quite positive): http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/review-viewsonic-vp2330wb.html

Their old 23" (VP231wb) used an S-IPS and now they use an S-MVA in the VP2330wb. A step down, IMO, but I'll have to look into recommending it. It seemed expensive for what it was (the BenQ FP241W would easily beat it, and the Sony SDM-P234 has got to be as good or better).

 

[Aulryz]

What are good contending monitors beyond the 20-22 inch range? I know about the Dell 2407WFP and BenQ's FP241W. From what I've learned in forums, the 2407 only supports 720p HDCP? And what is the difference between HDCP and HDMI? I don't buy monitors very often, so when I put down the money I want to make sure it'll last a good couple of years. It seems like the FP241W > 2407WFP, but the good thing about Dell is that they are cheaper (with % off and coupon codes). I'm not really sure what I should go with :\.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Aulryz
What are good contending monitors beyond the 20-22 inch range? I know about the Dell 2407WFP and BenQ's FP241W. From what I've learned in forums, the 2407 only supports 720p HDCP? And what is the difference between HDCP and HDMI? I don't buy monitors very often, so when I put down the money I want to make sure it'll last a good couple of years. It seems like the FP241W > 2407WFP, but the good thing about Dell is that they are cheaper (with % off and coupon codes). I'm not really sure what I should go with :\.

I really can't make the decision of whether or not the extra cost is worth it to you. I can only say it would be worth it to me to get the FP241W over the 2407WFP because of the extra features, less banding, and higher contrast. HDCP is an encryption algorithm, and HDMI is another type of connection like DVI, except it's basically dual-link DVI with audio.

 

[Pyrii]

the vp2030b came today (should've been friday so caught me by surprise) But the moment I saw the box I rejected the new monitor because it was unsealed. Meaning anyone can open and unfold it and tamper with the contents. Hooked this vp930 back up again and got ont he phone to Viewsonic. Who have put me on the waiting list for allocation again, and pushed my purchase date forward because they've taken so long. I had to be a bit pushy and tell them to properly seal the box next time.

Oh well, wish I'd accepted it, but hope I made the right choice in not doing so.

 

[xboxist]

Quick connection question.

Will this card connect well to the 20WMGX2? The card came with an array of cables. But I have no DVI knowledge. I don't know if there are different types of DVI ports, or even if there different types of DVI cables.

Thanks!

 

[Matt2]

Originally posted by: xboxist
Quick connection question.

Will this card connect well to the 20WMGX2? The card came with an array of cables. But I have no DVI knowledge. I don't know if there are different types of DVI ports, or even if there different types of DVI cables.

Thanks!

It will be fine.

 

[James Bond]

I know this has been asked a million times, but...

I'm going to upgrade to a new monitor. Gaming is my main concern, but I also play around with photo editing/graphic design.
I need low ms, decent viewing angles, 8bit, etc.

I'm trying to find one for ~$200-250

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: xboxist
Quick connection question.

Will this card connect well to the 20WMGX2? The card came with an array of cables. But I have no DVI knowledge. I don't know if there are different types of DVI ports, or even if there different types of DVI cables.

Thanks!

Any graphics card with DVI can hook up to any DVI LCD. You just need a male-to-male DVI cable.

Originally posted by: Tizyler
I know this has been asked a million times, but...

I'm going to upgrade to a new monitor. Gaming is my main concern, but I also play around with photo editing/graphic design.
I need low ms, decent viewing angles, 8bit, etc.

I'm trying to find one for ~$200-250

8-bit LCDs do not exist under the realm of $380. I would pony up the $340 for the 971P which is high-contrast (though the bit depth is unknown, it's better than anything under its price range). You can also try the Samsung 205BW for $300. For <$250, the Samsung 940BF/BenQ FP93GX is the best. The 940BF is available for $250 after rebate at Newegg.

 

[GoodRevrnd]

Can I get a definition of "Input Lag?" I know it should be pretty self explanatory, but what clues can you look for to find if a monitor has it? And is this completely independent of actual pixel response time?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: GoodRevrnd
Can I get a definition of "Input Lag?" I know it should be pretty self explanatory, but what clues can you look for to find if a monitor has it? And is this completely independent of actual pixel response time?

Input lag is different from response time. Think of input lag as a y-intercept and response time as a slope. Input lag is the offset at which the monitor starts updating. Once it starts updating, it relies on the response time. Great article on it here: http://www.behardware.com/articles/632-...ages-delayed-compared-to-crts-yes.html

 

[GoodRevrnd]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: GoodRevrnd
Can I get a definition of "Input Lag?" I know it should be pretty self explanatory, but what clues can you look for to find if a monitor has it? And is this completely independent of actual pixel response time?

Input lag is different from response time. Think of input lag as a y-intercept and response time as a slope. Input lag is the offset at which the monitor starts updating. Once it starts updating, it relies on the response time. Great article on it here: http://www.behardware.com/articles/632-...ages-delayed-compared-to-crts-yes.html

I'm not sure I understand that test shows it's lag independent of the pixel response though. At least in a rapidly changing scene it seems the delay of a pixel having to change colors alone would leave the scene always a few ms behind.


"Where does this delay come from? It?s hard to tell for now and we will have to investigate a little more."

Do we at least have an idea of whether it is inherent to panels or more to do with some other back-end circuitry?
For instance, I heard "pro gamers" bitch about the lag first hand on that Samsung 931c that's the "offical WCG monitor." And this is the winning team that was complaining.


BTW, do you think it's worth foregoing a boxed Viewsonic VX2025WM for $200 to get the NEC for $650? It's such a massive price difference, but the glossy coat... and the multimedia inputs w/ PIP would be awesome. I also wonder about the response time difference since the Viewsonic can hit twice as high. I've been on a high quality CRT for 5 years now and it's still goin' strong. So I even wonder about waiting for something significantly better. (Pipe dream...)

 

[Bonesdad]

Well, I just logged onto Dell.com to check the status of my order, which was to ship tomorrow. I ordered a Viewsonic Vx2025wm...now it sez CANCELLED. I got no email from them...if I hadn't checked, who knows when or if they would have notified me?

It's pretty apparent that the 2025 is no longer available. Newegg has some openbox, but no other reseller seems to have them in stock and Viewsonic has told me they are discontinued.

So now I either go with the LG panel (TN) or start looking all over again. Bleh.

If I talk to Dell, I'll ask if they can guarantee sending me an S-IPS 20" panel. Yeah, right.