LCD Buyer's Guide

[CP5670]

Interesting, the 971P has the glossy coating? That would be one of the very few non-NEC models with it.

 

[Engel]

Originally posted by: xtknight
It's not really shocking that it ghosts, but I am surprised the red streaking is so prevalent. Most of the Samsung monitors (with the exception of the 60BF series) have gotten very good ratings with regards to overdrive (response time acceleration). It could be that your store has a bad batch of them. I have never seen this effect mentioned in any review of the 971P. Or, maybe you just gave it the right combination of media for the red ringing to stick out like a sore thumb and the rest of the web has not given the LCD a proper review (I wouldn't be surprised if it was the latter).

I tend to believe it is the latter as well. None of the reviews I found of the 971P had any truly worthwhile information. Most of the average, every day user reviews mentioned mostly text/images/one or two games. None of the reviews I read gave any impression whatsoever as to its video quality.

As I mentioned in my first post, I did not simply go based on one unit from the same batch/store. The first one was from Newegg, and the second one I tried was from CompUSA. Furthermore, I tested each monitor on different computers with entirely different setups (from the video card to the CPU), and the problem was still the there to the same extent. This included testing both DVI-I to DVI-D and DVI-I to Analog, which also showed no difference except the analog required the monitor to auto-adjust whenever it did anything (this was rather slow, by the way).

Originally posted by: xtknight
I agree with this. It is sad there are no other monitors in the same realm as the 971P's image quality and price. It makes it frustrating to adjust, especially on different operating systems that MagicTune does not support. I have had trouble getting MagicTune to work with my graphics card. What troubles did you have with it?

Your first sentence sums up my intense frustration. I really, really wanted this monitor, and I had a lot of hope invested in it. Simply put: not only did it let me down, it crushed me.

The software seemed to conflict with my ATI driver software and was crashing. When I tried this on another setup and it did work, the software was still sub-par for what I would expect from Samsung. The controls gave me little to nothing more than what my ATI drivers can. My first thought after seeing this was to check the Samsung support site for updated drivers. I found these and installed them. Much to my dismay, not only were these equally as useless, but they changed the menu on the pre-set button such that it became even more useless than it already was. And regardless, why should we be forced to install any special software just to control the hardware? Firmware should do this. I do not want more processes running on my system.

This was definitely one of the worst control setups I have ever seen on a piece of electronic equipment, and I do not say that lightly.

Originally posted by: xtknight
Umm, well I hope so. I'm sorry to say it, but personally I wasn't impressed with my VP930b. It was another LCD that had problems with overdrive (I got purple around moving objects in Battlefield 2). The backlight was also among the worst. It happened to get an A rating for that category on Tom's Hardware which was shocking.

Aye, I've spent hours reading up on this monitor. From what I can tell, most of the serious backlight problems were more obvious on the older versions of the panel (or so the reviews would suggest). A lot of the newer reviews on Newegg, for example, do not mention the backlight being a major issue. Regardless, if that is the only serious issue it does have, I can deal with it.

If it does have problems with the overdrive like you say, I really am not sure what to do.

Originally posted by: xtknight
I don't know what's going on here but finding properly done reviews of LCDs is getting increasingly hard. Many of the aspects are just not tested or are quickly glossed over. I'm glad you are not settling for these problems but meanwhile, finding a better LCD is the hard part.

Ugh, tell me about it. The Samsung 940BX is the perfect example of a panel that looks pretty good on paper, but I simply refuse to buy a monitor online for which there is little to no information. If it was in a local CompUSA, perhaps I would give it a go, but it's not there.

Originally posted by: xtknight
It is possible that the VP930b now uses a newer panel. AU Optronics has had a 1300:1 out for ages. As much as it's nice to update the products with the same model number, as a previous owner you really feel screwed over.

Please let me know how the VP930b suits you. I hope that the newer panel takes care of these effects.

I really hope it does work out. Frankly, I'm really fed up with all of these vendors and their nonsense when it comes to overdrive. If this is the price we must pay for faster advertised response times, then perhaps we should look to other panels. I can tolerate the "old school" ghosting issues, but these streaking and artifact problems are downright deplorable and unacceptable. Like I said, I enjoy watching videos on my old Envision 15" more than I do on the 971P. That's not just sad, that's absolutely pathetic.

 

[Engel]

Originally posted by: CP5670
Interesting, the 971P has the glossy coating? That would be one of the very few non-NEC models with it.

The coating is not on the screen itself, but on the sides and base. Regardless, it makes for an annoying glare and collects a lot of fingerprints.

 

[CP5670]

Oh, I see what you're talking about now. Never mind.

 

[KnickNut3]

Hey. I've currently got a 20.1" 2001FP and a 19" CRT and am looking to replace the CRT. I was going to get another normal 4:3 screen but might consider the widescreen for movies in my dorm room. Right now I do a little gaming, mostly poker/internet and watching TV.

If I got a 22" widescreen, would it be approx the same height as my current 20.1"? I know the resolution won't be exactly the same (1200 lines vs. 1050), but I'd prefer the heights to match exactly and know you sacrifice height since monitors are measured diagonally.

Anyone have this kind of setup? Thanks.

 

[r4nger]

Welp I just bought the 971P so we will see how it works out for me. I should have it by thursday or friday.

Hopefully I don't run into the same problems Engel did.

 

[rxblitzrx]

Originally posted by: Chiapensis
Hi rx,
As I am about to buy the LP2065, I wonder if you've installed your new video card and how you would compare the analog/digital performance.
By the way since I'll need to change my video card for one with a digital output I wonder which card you chose. I won't be doing any gaming but will need the digital out.
Thanks

My video card is supposed to arrive on Friday from the Egg. From what I've been told/reading, any graphics card will work the same on 2D performance. Therefore I got the cheapest thing I could find at the Egg. I am definitely not one to make a recommendation though. I don't even know if my motherboard supports 8X AGP!

I ended up getting this: MSI FX5200-TD128LF Geforce FX5200 DDR AGP 4X/8X Low Profile Video Card - Retail

My board doesn't support PCIe and I just wanted something to tide me over until I build a Core2Duo system (not for gaming, but only because I like to keep up with technology and Vista is a resource hog.)

I think I read on this thread that the GeForce 6xxx or 7xxx series is a good buy for cheap, high quality graphics. I'm guessing from the model number that I got a 5xxx series. The cheapest 6xxx series I could find was about six dollars more but the only difference was OpenGL 1.5 instead of 1.4. The core speed, ram, everything were the same so I didn't see a need to cancel my original order and get the 6xxx series.

I hope you enjoy your HP as much as I do. My roommate impulse bought a Dell 2405WFP and I was so envious at first. After doing my research, I think I have the better LCD because of the S-IPS panel. Yeah his 24" is bigger, but do you really need that much real-estate? I mean seriously, if you're not watching a movie or playing a video game on your computer, what can you do to fill up 24 inches? It actually hurts my neck and eyes trying to pan across 24 inches.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: KnickNut3
Hey. I've currently got a 20.1" 2001FP and a 19" CRT and am looking to replace the CRT. I was going to get another normal 4:3 screen but might consider the widescreen for movies in my dorm room. Right now I do a little gaming, mostly poker/internet and watching TV.

If I got a 22" widescreen, would it be approx the same height as my current 20.1"? I know the resolution won't be exactly the same (1200 lines vs. 1050), but I'd prefer the heights to match exactly and know you sacrifice height since monitors are measured diagonally.

Anyone have this kind of setup? Thanks.

22" 16:10 TFT active pixel area: 473.8 (W) x 296.1 (H) mm
20" 4:3 TFT active pixel area: 408.0 (W) x 306.0 (H) mm

The 22" would be roughly a centimeter shorter in actual pixel area. Now physically that will be different (the actual LCD has varying sizes of stands). You will have to look at the dimension specification of the product in question to know whether or not they'll line up or if you can adjust the stand so that one dimension will line up.

 

[CheesePoofs]

I ordered the LGL204WT and got it in today. It didn't come with a DVI cable, so I'm using VGA right now until I can grab a DVI cable from a friend.

The image seems really nice to me, no dead pixels and only a little bleeding at the top and bottom. But I have a few questions:

First, in the flatron F engine thing, when I set it to "user," it allows you to adjust brightness, ACE, and RCM. I don't know what the the latter two are, though I'm guessing they're just monitor special features that make it look prettier but will really degrade image quality. Any ideas? But also, apparently I can only adjust contrast while in normal mode; if I adjust it, it automatically switches back to normal. And I need to adjust it, the user mode has contrast way too high. Do you think this mode has any annoying special features that really aren't so special?

I seem to see a little bit of banding, but I'm not sure. Basically, I can see vertical lines towards the darker side of the scale across all the colors, but can't really make out colors clumped together. That and I think it could be due to me running off of a vga cable right now.

But anyways, the display seems quite nice, though I haven't actually done anything with it besides basic internet surfing so far. But I'm happy Thanks so much for recommending it to me, xtknight!

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: CheesePoofs
I ordered the LGL204WT and got it in today. It didn't come with a DVI cable, so I'm using VGA right now until I can grab a DVI cable from a friend.

The image seems really nice to me, no dead pixels and only a little bleeding at the top and bottom. But I have a few questions:

First, in the flatron F engine thing, when I set it to "user," it allows you to adjust brightness, ACE, and RCM. I don't know what the the latter two are, though I'm guessing they're just monitor special features that make it look prettier but will really degrade image quality.

Precisely. ^^

Any ideas? But also, apparently I can only adjust contrast while in normal mode; if I adjust it, it automatically switches back to normal. And I need to adjust it, the user mode has contrast way too high. Do you think this mode has any annoying special features that really aren't so special?

The user mode? I don't think it has anything weird enabled.

I seem to see a little bit of banding, but I'm not sure. Basically, I can see vertical lines towards the darker side of the scale across all the colors, but can't really make out colors clumped together. That and I think it could be due to me running off of a vga cable right now.

Probably not because of VGA (VGA softens the signal) but minor banding will happen on every LCD especially in the dark regions. That's their weak point.

But anyways, the display seems quite nice, though I haven't actually done anything with it besides basic internet surfing so far. But I'm happy Thanks so much for recommending it to me, xtknight!

Glad you're happy with it.

 

[mset]

Hi xt

Thanks as always for the work you do here.

I bought a Dell E228 WFP 22" LCD (TN panel) through a Boxing Day sale, and sent it back today. It was my first LCD, but I was unimpressed by the color reproduction, and by the inconsistency of the images. I tried hard to tweak it, using Riva Tuner (after checking out your site www.lcdresource.com) but I couldn't get all the problems to go away at once. Strangest was the look of my browser window at the top, where, in the top left corner, it looked like someone had 'spilled a liquid' which washed off the corner of the page.

I decided to do a bunch of searching at X-Bit, Tom's, prad, then get a bunch of candidates for a decent unit, then come here and scroll backwards through the pages of this thread to see what current buyers are saying.

My priorities are

1. Size (20"+ )

2. Price

3. Color reproduction/Image Clarity

I do not need

1. Gaming response

2. Movie viewing

3. Photo Editing or viewing

So... I came up with this list

Samsung 213T
Samsung 215TW
Samsung 205BW
HP LP2065

My question is this - the 215TW has had so many positive reviews and is an editors choice on many sites, but I noticed that a few days ago, you mentioned to someone here that you wouldn't be able to deal with the 'input lag'. Now, I did a wikipedia search for input lag and I understand it in theory, but I am a little confused about input lag vs. response time. You said that you would use the 215TW for watching movies but that's about it. But wouldn't those moving images lag? I guess not...

Anyhow, any comment by anyone here re: the best 20"+ LCD monitor for $325-$450 (and I do not mind buying a used unit, esp. from a high heatware guy in my town) for a non gamer who wants only a sharp image and reliability, would be appreciated.

[Asus A8N-E with onboard video, DVI and VGA outputs, would rather not be required to get a PCI-e video card]

Thanks

 

[Aviator10]

Have a question that has been bugging me for a while. I have been reading all the posts in this thread avidly and am in the same position as everybody else. Every time I come close to a model, there is another new issue. Phewwww!
So here is what is bugging me: xknight what is the deal with the "medical grade" LCD monitors that we have in the Radiology PACS systems. I have heard that they are rather "expensive". They are Fabulous.
What panels are these and what are their "home grade" counterparts? Sorry if this is basic.

 

[nubreed000]

Originally posted by: xtknight
LCD Buyer's Guide
As of Thursday, Dec 28, 2006

LCDs with bad Overdrive side effects
(avoid these whenever possible)

Samsung SyncMaster 930BF (X-Bit Labs)

Does anyone know if this monitor, and the SyncMaster 931BF are the same models? I'm thinking about getting the 931BF as it seems like a great deal (2000:1 ratio and 2ms response), but I wanna know if they suffer from the same problems.

 

[riversend3]

Just wanted to ask a question. I used this forum a couple of months ago to aid in my LCD buying decision, and purchased a Samsung 215TW. Extremely happy with the monitor, no quality issues although it took several tries to get the DVI cable input to accept the signal from the video card. So thanks xtknight and all the folks that discussed the purchase with me......

Anyway, I was going to pick one up for a family member but discovered that it is out of stock almost everywhere. Best Buy no longer lists it in inventory, having given way to hat looks to be a lower quality 225BW. Compusa - none. Newegg - out of stock but still listed as a product. Is this just a post-Christmas stock issue, or has Samsung discontinued the model?

I am not all that concerned about getting this exact monitor, just wondering why it is disappearing? Thanks, and if it is disappearing this is just giving folks a heads up.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: riversend3
Just wanted to ask a question. I used this forum a couple of months ago to aid in my LCD buying decision, and purchased a Samsung 215TW. Extremely happy with the monitor, no quality issues although it took several tries to get the DVI cable input to accept the signal from the video card. So thanks xtknight and all the folks that discussed the purchase with me......

Anyway, I was going to pick one up for a family member but discovered that it is out of stock almost everywhere. Best Buy no longer lists it in inventory, having given way to hat looks to be a lower quality 225BW. Compusa - none. Newegg - out of stock but still listed as a product. Is this just a post-Christmas stock issue, or has Samsung discontinued the model?

I am not all that concerned about getting this exact monitor, just wondering why it is disappearing? Thanks, and if it is disappearing this is just giving folks a heads up.

I believe that Samsung has discontinued it (but it's listed as a non-discontinued product on their web page). It was still in stock plenty of places a while ago but it looks like I'll have to remove it very soon. I'll shoot off an e-mail to Samsung USA to make sure.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: mset
Hi xt

Thanks as always for the work you do here.

I bought a Dell E228 WFP 22" LCD (TN panel) through a Boxing Day sale, and sent it back today. It was my first LCD, but I was unimpressed by the color reproduction, and by the inconsistency of the images. I tried hard to tweak it, using Riva Tuner (after checking out your site www.lcdresource.com) but I couldn't get all the problems to go away at once. Strangest was the look of my browser window at the top, where, in the top left corner, it looked like someone had 'spilled a liquid' which washed off the corner of the page.

Yuck...Dell TN panels.

I decided to do a bunch of searching at X-Bit, Tom's, prad, then get a bunch of candidates for a decent unit, then come here and scroll backwards through the pages of this thread to see what current buyers are saying.

My priorities are

1. Size (20"+ )

2. Price

3. Color reproduction/Image Clarity

I do not need

1. Gaming response

2. Movie viewing

3. Photo Editing or viewing

So... I came up with this list

Samsung 213T
Samsung 215TW
Samsung 205BW
HP LP2065

I recommend you the Samsung 213T. It has very vibrant (not as accurate in some cases) colors. This LCD will ghost, so do not use it for gaming unless you like pain. The 205BW shouldn't even be in there if you're considering the other higher quality panels. I believe the 215TW is discontinued (I'll see on that), but the HP LP2065 sounds like a good overall choice. It's the highest quality panel of them all (S-IPS). The 213T may be higher contrast though so if you're convinced a little ghosting won't bother you then go for that.

My question is this - the 215TW has had so many positive reviews and is an editors choice on many sites, but I noticed that a few days ago, you mentioned to someone here that you wouldn't be able to deal with the 'input lag'. Now, I did a wikipedia search for input lag and I understand it in theory, but I am a little confused about input lag vs. response time. You said that you would use the 215TW for watching movies but that's about it. But wouldn't those moving images lag? I guess not...

When you play games you're also sending the PC input, and you notice the delay in feedback a lot more than if you were to sit back and watch a movie. Also, some applications let you compensate by also delaying the audio so in effect you notice nothing. But most of all, it will be extremely hard to tell when you're watching a movie since you're not sending the PC any input and the feedback you're expecting could come in any shape or form at any time (especially with sitcoms ).

Anyhow, any comment by anyone here re: the best 20"+ LCD monitor for $325-$450 (and I do not mind buying a used unit, esp. from a high heatware guy in my town) for a non gamer who wants only a sharp image and reliability, would be appreciated.

[Asus A8N-E with onboard video, DVI and VGA outputs, would rather not be required to get a PCI-e video card]

Thanks

HP LP2065 or 213T as mentioned above, but if you want a lower price screen, then I would say there's nothing lower in price that will provide you with image quality that could be considered professional.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Aviator10
Have a question that has been bugging me for a while. I have been reading all the posts in this thread avidly and am in the same position as everybody else. Every time I come close to a model, there is another new issue. Phewwww!

Indeed...LCDs are unique in that way. They ALL have their errata and not one model is right for everyone.

So here is what is bugging me: xknight what is the deal with the "medical grade" LCD monitors that we have in the Radiology PACS systems. I have heard that they are rather "expensive". They are Fabulous.
What panels are these and what are their "home grade" counterparts? Sorry if this is basic.

That's exactly what they are called...medical displays (for viewing X-Rays). They are S-IPS (or revised variants like A-TW-IPS and SA-SFT with a custom color filter). They also may have 10-bit image processing (though the actual display is still 8-bit, it uses various forms of dithering to produce 10-bit). Sometimes simply the colors are upconverted to 10-bit instead of actually having a 10-bit input.

Home grade counterparts? None of these have 10-bit processing of any kind, but they use the same fundamental panel technology. With a calibrator you may be able to get them close to as good.

HP LP2065, 20" regular (S-IPS, lower brightness) - suited to low-brightness media viewing or general usage

NEC 20WMGX2, 20" widescreen (AS-IPS (S-IPS 2nd gen) + OptiClear (glossy screen)) - suited to high-brightness multimedia or can be calibrated for low-brightness general usage at high contrast

Apple Cinema 23", 23" regular (S-IPS, medium brightness) - suited to medium-brightness multimedia or general usage at high contrast

Both produce amazingly vibrant and accurate colors (the 20WMGX2 still has an edge).

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: nubreed000

Originally posted by: xtknight
LCD Buyer's Guide
As of Thursday, Dec 28, 2006

LCDs with bad Overdrive side effects
(avoid these whenever possible)

Samsung SyncMaster 930BF (X-Bit Labs)

Does anyone know if this monitor, and the SyncMaster 931BF are the same models? I'm thinking about getting the 931BF as it seems like a great deal (2000:1 ratio and 2ms response), but I wanna know if they suffer from the same problems.

I'm not sure about that. My guess would be that it's solved. The 2000:1 is way overblown and really not that amazing (just dynamic contrast) so don't feel as if you passed up some great offer.

 

[mset]

Originally posted by: xtknight
HP LP2065 or 213T as mentioned above, but if you want a lower price screen, then I would say there's nothing lower in price that will provide you with image quality that could be considered professional.

Thanks as always, xt. I can definitely go $425-450 for a decent panel. And of course if I go to a store, my eyes will probably get big and I'll end up handing the guy my credit card and walking out with something really sweet

I'll start some searches for the two units you mentioned.

 

[nubreed000]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: nubreed000

Originally posted by: xtknight
LCD Buyer's Guide
As of Thursday, Dec 28, 2006

LCDs with bad Overdrive side effects
(avoid these whenever possible)

Samsung SyncMaster 930BF (X-Bit Labs)

Does anyone know if this monitor, and the SyncMaster 931BF are the same models? I'm thinking about getting the 931BF as it seems like a great deal (2000:1 ratio and 2ms response), but I wanna know if they suffer from the same problems.

I'm not sure about that. My guess would be that it's solved. The 2000:1 is way overblown and really not that amazing (just dynamic contrast) so don't feel as if you passed up some great offer.

Ah, I see. I guess I'll just go with a 20" panel instead then, since they cost around the same amount. I'm thinking of either the Samsung 205BW, Acer's AL2016W and Dell's 20" screens.

Which one would you pick out of those 3? I noticed that spec-wise (from what I know), the Dell features the best specs, but how trustworthy are Dell's?

 

[rxblitzrx]

Dell 2405FPW or HP LP2065. Which one has better picture quality???

 

[Engel]

Originally posted by: rxblitzrx
Dell 2405FPW or HP LP2065. Which one has better picture quality???

Well, this really comes down to PVA vs S-IPS, since it is my understanding that the 2405FPW is using Samsung's PVA panel, and the LP2065 uses a Phillips S-IPS panel.

Given the above, I would say go with HP LP2065. Having used both PVA and IPS panels (those Apple Cinema Displays are gorgeous), I can tell you that, without a doubt, the IPS panel is superior. And even beyond this, I can also tell you that Samsung's PVA panels need work. The technology may produce decent still images, but displaying movement is critically flawed. Moreover, the IPS panel is a true 8-bit, while Samsung's PVA panels seem to be using 6-bit and use FRC/dithering. The PVA panels tend to have deeper blacks, but is that really worth it? I'd say no.

Anyway, good luck!

 

[rxblitzrx]

Originally posted by: Engel

Originally posted by: rxblitzrx
Dell 2405FPW or HP LP2065. Which one has better picture quality???

Well, this really comes down to PVA vs S-IPS, since it is my understanding that the 2405FPW is using Samsung's PVA panel, and the LP2065 uses a Phillips S-IPS panel.

Given the above, I would say go with HP LP2065. Having used both PVA and IPS panels (those Apple Cinema Displays are gorgeous), I can tell you that, without a doubt, the IPS panel is superior. And even beyond this, I can also tell you that Samsung's PVA panels need work. The technology may produce decent still images, but displaying movement is critically flawed. Moreover, the IPS panel is a true 8-bit, while Samsung's PVA panels seem to be using 6-bit and use FRC/dithering. The PVA panels tend to have deeper blacks, but is that really worth it? I'd say no.

Anyway, good luck!

nice! I'll be sure to remember that. Bigger definitely ain't better.

 

[CheesePoofs]

So update on the LGL204WT. I've had it for a few days, and like it a lot. I've played UT2k4 on it and it looks great, no ghosting that I can detect at all. Movies don't look bad, but the colors of smoke seem to clump together and make the color look like it's in 16 bit mode. Which is the main problem that I've noticed: shades of dark colors. Not sure if it's banding or just the fact that this is a 6-bit panel at heart, but the monitor has a bit of trouble producing different dark grays. But everything else seems fine. And widescreen is awesome, especially after having spent the last few years on an 1152x864 17" CRT.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: nubreed000

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: nubreed000

Originally posted by: xtknight
LCD Buyer's Guide
As of Thursday, Dec 28, 2006

LCDs with bad Overdrive side effects
(avoid these whenever possible)

Samsung SyncMaster 930BF (X-Bit Labs)

Does anyone know if this monitor, and the SyncMaster 931BF are the same models? I'm thinking about getting the 931BF as it seems like a great deal (2000:1 ratio and 2ms response), but I wanna know if they suffer from the same problems.

I'm not sure about that. My guess would be that it's solved. The 2000:1 is way overblown and really not that amazing (just dynamic contrast) so don't feel as if you passed up some great offer.

Ah, I see. I guess I'll just go with a 20" panel instead then, since they cost around the same amount. I'm thinking of either the Samsung 205BW, Acer's AL2016W and Dell's 20" screens.

Which one would you pick out of those 3? I noticed that spec-wise (from what I know), the Dell features the best specs, but how trustworthy are Dell's?

I would get the Samsung 205BW. It has been tested (by X-Bit Labs) and proven to be good. Dell's value monitors are ones to avoid regardless of specs. (Talk about cheap...) The Acer...well why bother when there's the 205BW which we know is good?