I haven't heard about it much although all 22" LCDs use the same panel right now AFAIK. If you're getting a 22" get the Acer AL2216WBD.
Originally posted by: AMDZen
What about this one?? I am looking for about the same thing this guy is looking for. But I don't see anything on this monitor other then the newegg reviews which look good. This think is only a bit more and I get 2 more inches over the LG your listing
Originally posted by: jshellman
So, I was desparate to get a monitor soon, so I went and grabbed one from Costco. They had very few choices.
I grabbed the vx2235wm. After setting it up (using DVI input powered by GeForce 6800 GT), I'm not all that impressed. Showing a DVD (winxp64 with nvidia purevideo decoder), the colors didn't look very good--looked dithered (it's a 6-bit panel, so, not too surprising, I guess).
Aside: Also, the buttons along the front are absurd--very hard to press.
Anyway, my question is: I've read a lot of good about the lp2065 and so just ordered one (I'm an office user who will also occasionally game or watch a movie with it). Shoudl I expect to notice a significant increase in quality on the lp2065 from the vx2235wm? I'm hoping so.
Thanks!
Originally posted by: rxblitzrx
Is there a difference between DVI-I and DVI-D ????
Originally posted by: brianmanahan
We need a new list of recommendations, this list is far too old now. Also, TN panels are no where nearly as bad as the OP chart shows them to be.
Originally posted by: rxblitzrx
QUESTION: I'm thinking about buying the Dell 1907FP UltraSharp from CostCo for my parents. Is this a S-IPS panel?
Originally posted by: Engel
Alright, as promised, here is my review of the VP930b (Revision #3 - Contrast 1300:1, Brightness 300). This monitor features a Premium MVA panel made by AU Optronics, and according to all sources that I could find regarding this model's third revision, this panel seems to be 8-bit. I am unable to verify this, but I can tell you that I have had none of the issues with flickering and so forth that were reported on the earlier versions.
How did I test this? I did many of the same things that I did when testing the Samsung 971P: the same videos, the same games, internet browsing, and photo viewing. I tested both Hollywood quality DVD movies (Empire Falls, V for Vendetta, Black Dahlia) as well as other videos such as those on YouTube. For games, I tested Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory, Battlefield 2, and the upcoming MMORPG, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes. These games allow me to see both fast-paced FPS play in addition to MMO/RPG play. I spent many hours doing internet related activities such as reading the news that I do everyday.
Now, on to results:
Pros:
1) Ergonomics. This, to me, is one of the best aspects of this monitor over many others currently available. Many of the models I find either have very limited adjust-ability or have issues because of a failed attempt at increasing the ability to be adjusted (ie: Samsung 971P with its irritating DVI-I port placement and shaky/flimsy stand).
This stand does not shake much, if at all, when typing, as opposed to the Samsung 971P that shook to an incredibly annoying degree. This stand also has flawless adjustments for height, tilt, and pivot. It moves cleanly and stays in place with no problems whatsoever. Furthermore, cable management is superb and having three ports is wonderful when accommodating different setups (two DSUB, one DVI-D).
The power transformer is built in, which is a con, but this monitor has wonderful heat ventilation, thereby negating this apparent flaw in its design. (Samsung has been wise to start separating the transformer from the unit itself.)
2) Monitor adjustments beyond the physical. The on-screen menu and button setup for this monitor is well done. The menu is clear and allows for all adjustments to be made to the monitor as well as view information regarding the current frequencies and resolution. The monitor's menu also allows for easy switching between the different connections that the three ports allow for.
I am not a fan of having to install software to adjust a monitor, and thus, I cannot comment on the software that came with this model. I was able to make all the adjustments that I sought to make without any other software; to me, this is a victory. Calibration was easy with the monitor's firmware (menu).
3) Picture quality. Prior to calibration, the colors were a bit off, and the brightness was set to 100 (max); this resulted in untrue colors. After calibration, I was able to achieve a magnificent level of true colors across the board. Again, I did all of this by simply using the monitor's on-screen menu. I went through your LCD resource tests and passed all of them with flying colors. The black level, while not as deep as the Samsung 971P, but this is probably due entirely to black lighting issues, which I will address further down.
I believe the colors on this model rival, if not surpass the 971P. While that monitor had better factory settings, it was difficult to calibrate. The 971P seemed too bright when the contrast and color were set such that the color was vivid and true. This is not the case with the VP930b. So, big props to ViewSonic and AU Optronics on this model.
4) Response time. The response time on this monitor is incredibly consistent, as Tom's Hardware Guide suggested, albeit with an earlier revision. I did not notice any ghosting while gaming, even when doing fast 360 degree turns that usually produce intense ghosting on some older LCDs. This panel may have a lower advertised response time than some of the newer models and PVA panels, but this monitor is much more true to its advertised specifications. I did not buy this with the intention of doing hardcore FPS gaming, but I was pleasantly surprised to see that it steps up to the plate.
5) Streaking/Ringing -- there is none. In my testing of the games and video playback, I was unable to produce any streaking whatsoever.
6) Video quality. Unlike the 971P, which displayed ringing and streaking around moving objects -- especially humans -- as well as irritating noise, the VP930b displays videos with much ease. Of course, that is not to say it is flawless. While there was no streaking or ringing, there was still some noise. Furthermore, if you look very closely (and I do mean very closely), you can notice some slight ghosting. Will most people see this? Probably not. Is it annoying to the point of it being unacceptable? Not at all. To me, this is the trade-off when going from CRT technology to LCD technology. I do not expect video quality to be flawless with LCDs, and this monitor was more than acceptable in this category, surpassing most LCDs that I have used and seen.
Cons:
1) Backlight bleeding. I went into this purchase expecting some degree of backlight issues. To my delight, however, it was no where near as bad as many of the reviews, especially the older ones, suggested. There is no visible 'X' pattern, even when the monitor is at full brightness and factory settings. Instead, the backlight bleeding takes the form of bleeding in the corners of the screen and a tad bit around the edges. This is undesirable, but far from unacceptable in my eyes. The backlighting is pretty uniform even with the bleeding. When watching widescreen movies, I have not found this bleeding to be very obvious or at all distracting. Once you calibrate the monitor, the bleeding is lessened a bit, though still visible on an entirely black screen. Let me be clear though: this is an important flaw that should be addressed by Viewsonic. While they seem to have made progress with this revision, there is still more to be done. While the 971P does still bleed in the corners, it is less noticeable overall than the VP930b and thus superior to the VP930b.
2) Resolution transitions. Simply put: this monitor is not the fastest when it comes to changing resolutions. The Samsung 971P was superior (almost instantaneous) when changing resolutions. The VP930b does take a few seconds. Again, this is a con that does not render this model unacceptable, but should be improved upon. Surely, Viewsonic & AU Optronics can improve the transitions.
I am pleased to report that the issues with an big and intrusive resolution changing on-screen message have been entirely eliminated. This, the third revision of the VP930b, has a very small message that comes on screen after changing to a new resolution. This pop-up is much smaller than the 971P's and is up for a shorter duration (about 1-2 seconds). So, clearly, Viewsonic has been listening and making positive changes to this model.
I am pleased to say that, overall, in spite of my trepidations, the VP930b has surpassed many of the expectations I had for an LCD monitor. I mainly used a 6-year-old 19" Trinitron CRT monitor up until it died almost two months ago. Picture quality, gaming performance, and video playback with this model is superb. This monitor is true to its advertised specifications and has my vote. I would highly recommend this model for anybody who wants a great all-around LCD monitor. I am very pleased with the VP930b and will be keeping it.
On another note, regarding the 971P:
I went to return the second 971P I purchased from CompUSA (first was from Newegg) about five days ago. In order to avoid the 15% restocking fee, I had to prove to them that the unit was defective. Indeed, the 971P is defective in so far as the model displays distinct and unacceptable red streaking and ringing around moving objects as I mentioned in a previous post. At first, they tested it without trying out any movie/game, so I suggested they play a DVD. They informed me that, while they had a test DVD available, they did not have DVD drives in the test computers (uh?). They did, however, have a short video clip. The manager did not see the problem and was quite unfriendly, but when she called over one of their techs, he clearly saw the problem after watching the clip through twice. The cashier who was helping me also saw the problem after he pointed where to focus on the screen. My point here? I'm not the only one who noticed this problem. Furthermore, while they did not say it was a "big deal", a recent Newegg reviewer who wrote a review on the 971P also highlights this problem, thereby further validating my claim.
Accordingly, I would ask that you, at the very least, consider removing the 971P from the list of recommended monitors for any movement (games, especially videos). It simply fails in this department. No monitor of that price (almost 100$ more than the VP930b) should have such poor performance in games and videos in the form of streaking and ringing.
Originally posted by: xtknight
Move this pic around a bit and see if you see any of this ringing effect. This made it stand out like a sore thumb on my VP930b.
http://www.xtknight.atothosting.com/tools/blur1.bmp
Originally posted by: BassBomb
TN Panels all they have for them is that they are cheap and fast.
Another question for the xtnight (my NEC deal fell through because of credit problems )
Do 8Bit monitors have no banding? Now I have got back into 3D rendering again (something I did not do too profusely on my LCD) and I can't stand the banding. It has driven me insane thinking my renders are bad when in reality it is just the LCD displaying it. I took a look at them on my dad's CRT and they look fine!
Do they just have less banding? or is it close to one and comparable to CRT?
Originally posted by: rxblitzrx
QUESTION: I'm thinking about buying the Dell 1907FP UltraSharp from CostCo for my parents. Is this a S-IPS panel?
Originally posted by: rxblitzrx
I need a recommendation for my parents please.
USE:
Internet surfing only. They're getting older now and eye site isn't very good. So, my goal here is to provide something that will put the least amount of strain on their eyes.
PRICE:
Under $300
SIZE:
19" 1280 x 1024
It looks like the Egg doesn't carry the Samsung 940BF anymore. Is the 940B the same thing without RTC (which will probably get turned off anyways)?
Originally posted by: FTemplar
I am primarily using my PC for games.
LG L204WT vs NEC 90GX2?
Basically one is widescreen and the other is not... I can get the L204WT for 329.99$CAD or a Refurbished 90GX2 for 299$CAD.
Thanks in advance for anyone's input!
Originally posted by: Engel
Originally posted by: xtknight
Move this pic around a bit and see if you see any of this ringing effect. This made it stand out like a sore thumb on my VP930b.
http://www.xtknight.atothosting.com/tools/blur1.bmp
Moving this image produces what appears to me to be normal ghosting. I just moved it around in the same fashion on an old 15" Envision LCD (EN5100e, TN panel) that I have, and it does the exact same thing. I did not notice any unusual ringing when moving this image, and thus, the panel appears to have no unique defect.
I am curious, what exactly did this image do when you moved it around on your old VP930b? (And I assume that you had the first edition?)
And as far as reviews of the 971P: I am still waiting to see one that gives any real information beyond how the packing looks and what cables are included. This was one of my trepidations when purchasing the monitor, but Newegg offered their full warranty (30 day refund, 1 year replacement), so I figured there was little risk in giving it a shot. There are no in-depth tech reviews of the 971P that I have found thus far. Most of the reviews I have read cover the basics of installing it, and this monitor is beautiful and wonderful once you turn it on and use it for text, web browsing, photo editing, office stuffs, etc. None of the reviews mentioned anything in-depth about gaming, and I did not find a single one that even briefly mentioned video, which is where the 971P really fails. I am curious though, is the 971P using a PVA or S-PVA panel? I have found some sites that suggest it uses a PVA panel similar to the 970P and others, including Samsung's official page, that suggest it is using a S-PVA panel. If it is indeed the S-PVA panel, wow, it needs a lot of work. For a panel that was supposed to kick the P-MVA panels out of the water, it sure falls pretty short.
EDIT: For information purposes, I believe the new panel in the VP930b is this one, which appears to have the specifications advertised currently by Viewsonic for this model. It is interesting to also note the wider viewing angles (178 degrees) over the previous versions, which I believe were advertised as either 170 or 176 degrees. And I can confirm that the viewing angles on the latest (Ver 3) VP930b are, indeed, very good. They appear to be the same as or slightly better than the 971P (leaning more towards the same).
Also: the VP930b arrived with and still has (one week later) no dead or stuck pixels. I tested this and the backlight using the DPT (Dead Pixel Tester), which is available from www.dps.uk.com.
Aye, but these tests, like you said, are short and not very conclusive. Furthermore, BeHardware gave the 971P a 4/5 stars on video playback. Even without the ringing and streaking around movie objects, the video quality was still very poor and plagued by noise, noticeable ghosting, and that digitized look (this happens on most LCDs, but it was very pronounced on the 971P). BeHardware, while giving this review, neglected to explain the reason for the 4 stars. Again, this is what I was saying before: I have yet to see a review on the 971P that has given any real information regarding video playback. I may be a bit of a stickler here, but I do not believe simply placing a rating is acceptable without a detailed explanation for giving said rating.Originally posted by: xtknight
Reviews are sparse these days, though I had thought I gathered a good conclusion by reading BeHardware's article and ratings, as well as glancing at the pictorial results of flatpanels.dk's tests. BeHardware is brief but I trust them. Flatpanels has always provided reliable info, though I can't read Danish I can interpret the results and such.
This is the part that boggles my mind. I, too, am a big fan of Samsung. In fact, that is why I went to look at Samsung's monitors before all else. Their tech support is great, and I have many other Samsung products including a DVD-R/DVD-RW/DVD/CDR/CDRW player that works flawlessly.Originally posted by: xtknight
It is very hard to fathom Samsung could make a mistake like this in one of their high-end models. Usually they're a brand I hesitate little to recommend. I also knew that the Samsung 970P was a star for image quality back in the day, and it got great reviews from the pro review sites.
I, too, was unable to find any issues such as ringing or streaking with 970P reviews; again, this led me to feel even more secure in my decision to buy the 971P. However, the 970P had a different panel (this was a 1000:1 contrast panel). It is very possible that in their attempt to achieve the improvements in 971P's new panel, they created other problems such as those I have detailed.Originally posted by: xtknight
The funny thing is I have never heard one complaint of overdrive issues on the 970P. I don't own a 971P so I couldn't tell you how bad the problems were. It is possible that you are just the most sensitive to these effects.
I hope that others will be as pleased with this version of the VP930b as I am. It is, indeed, unfortunate that the 971P has these problems. Samsung is a reputable company that generally produces high quality electronics; however, the issues are what they are, and it is difficult to see the 971P used for anything beyond office applications, internet browsing, and photo editing.Originally posted by: xtknight
I will replace the 971P with the VP930b due to your experience. It's quite a bit cheaper and has better controls. Apparently with the newer panel it has same/better image quality too. I'm glad they fixed the resolution notice thing.
They gave me no indication that they intended to do so. Like I said, the manager was most unhelpful, and even after her own tech and cashier confirmed the problem, she was still hesitant to give me the full refund (I was within the 14-day refund period and had the receipt).Originally posted by: xtknight
Did CompUSA notify Samsung about any of these "defects" or are they leaving it up to us customers to handle this?
Hehe, aye, I completely understand, and you needn't apologize for this. It is, like you said, difficult to find reliable reviews nowadays on LCD monitors.Originally posted by: xtknight
I am human and I do make mistakes. I won't hide that from you. I will make sure to research this more in-depth before listing an LCD again and if need be I will just wait for well-done reviews. Little did I know that the problem was rather commonplace.
Originally posted by: Engel
I, too, was unable to find any issues such as ringing or streaking with 970P reviews; again, this led me to feel even more secure in my decision to buy the 971P. However, the 970P had a different panel (this was a 1000:1 contrast panel). It is very possible that in their attempt to achieve the improvements in 971P's new panel, they created other problems such as those I have detailed.Originally posted by: xtknight
The funny thing is I have never heard one complaint of overdrive issues on the 970P. I don't own a 971P so I couldn't tell you how bad the problems were. It is possible that you are just the most sensitive to these effects.
I also would accept that I am more sensitive to these things than most people. I have 20/20 eyesight, do not wear glasses of any kind, and have been working on computers for years now extensively.[/b]
I hope that others will be as pleased with this version of the VP930b as I am. It is, indeed, unfortunate that the 971P has these problems. Samsung is a reputable company that generally produces high quality electronics; however, the issues are what they are, and it is difficult to see the 971P used for anything beyond office applications, internet browsing, and photo editing.Originally posted by: xtknight
I will replace the 971P with the VP930b due to your experience. It's quite a bit cheaper and has better controls. Apparently with the newer panel it has same/better image quality too. I'm glad they fixed the resolution notice thing.
They gave me no indication that they intended to do so. Like I said, the manager was most unhelpful, and even after her own tech and cashier confirmed the problem, she was still hesitant to give me the full refund (I was within the 14-day refund period and had the receipt).Originally posted by: xtknight
Did CompUSA notify Samsung about any of these "defects" or are they leaving it up to us customers to handle this?
Hehe, aye, I completely understand, and you needn't apologize for this. It is, like you said, difficult to find reliable reviews nowadays on LCD monitors.Originally posted by: xtknight
I am human and I do make mistakes. I won't hide that from you. I will make sure to research this more in-depth before listing an LCD again and if need be I will just wait for well-done reviews. Little did I know that the problem was rather commonplace.
What you do by helping people in this thread and with your lcdresource.com site is invaluable and a great service to the community. I thank you for taking so much time and devoting so much effort to maintaining this thread and your site.
Aye, this amazes me as well. I mean, all parts of a computer setup are important, but wouldn't you want to devote a good amount of time to the component that you will be staring at for hours on end?Originally posted by: xtknight
I have a feeling reviewers just don't spend enough time with the LCDs in question. Ideally I would just review all the LCDs myself, but my current situation doesn't allow for that. It amazes me how little most people care about the quality of their display compared to their CPU, GPU, memory (specifically seeking this stepping of CPU, D9 memory chips, whatever). It's good to see there is still an active niche.
Aye, that sounds fine. The monitor does perform very well in those situations.Originally posted by: xtknight
In the end I've decided to recommend the 971P for office work, desktop publishing, and prosumer photo editing since none of these involves much movement. I will still add a note to each 971P entry documenting the issue in case any consumers will be doing motion work on the LCD.
Well, I'm glad to hear this. As much as I would love to see you doing your own, extensive reviews, I understand the dynamics that make doing that very difficult and time consuming. Regardless, you are doing a great service, and I thank you again for your devotion.Originally posted by: xtknight
All I can say is I am still committed to researching LCDs and I will stay around once OLEDs/SEDs are released. When I started I'd have hoped that the review situation would have improved, but things are looking grim. I won't let it get to me, though. Worst comes to worst, I'll get a review contract once I get my own place, but that's far from a promise. The fact that no one else is this fascinated by LCDs does not stop me, it just keeps me going.