Originally posted by: PhotoMan
About CED:
What settings did you use?
My settings were: 16bit LUT based ICC V4 profiles, L* gamma, D65, Luminance target 100CD/m2
I assume that the L* stands for the CIE Lab Lightness chanel which is used anyway in any color profile conversion (all color profile conversions take place in the Lab Color color space).
DDC is SUPPOSED to adjust writable LUT's but it seems that this is not the case every time.
NEC 90 series, LaCie 3 and CG series EIZOs do have writable LUTs but they don't give information to third party software developers to make their software compatible.
I don't know how DDC works on my HP, whether it writes a LUT in the monitor's memory or is only adjusting the available controls; and to be honest with an average DE 0,23, max DE 0,43, at 100cd/m2, smooth gradients, minimal banding, shaddow and highlight detail that I had never seen before and prints that match perfectly what I see, I don't even care.
However it really seems to adjust the monitors RGB controls but I don't know if it touches the Graphics Card LUT.
Integrated Color is not very clear about this.
Monaco Optix XR Pro software couldn't give me comparable results though and that's what forced me to believe that DDC makes the difference.
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For me the point is that I saved at least $1500 as my plan was to get the HP and use it as a second monitor on a future upgrade to a High End EIZO or NEC and now I don't have to upgrade to anything.
Originally posted by: xboxist
How do I change my gamma settings on an ATI card? I have ATI Tray Tools, but unless it's called something else in there, I just don't see it.
Is this not done through the video card?
Originally posted by: zerokarma
How about listing some industrial lcd models like:
http://www.stealthcomputer.com/monitors_flat.htm
Originally posted by: scaaven2
thanks xtknight for a great post. I want to get a widescreen monitor for gaming, but I don't want to spend the money on NEC MultiSync 20WMGX2. Also, the reviews complaining about the glare and reflectivity concern me.
About a year ago I bought the dell 2407 and ended up sending it back the next day because of input lag. Everyone thought I was crazy because the monitor looked great and they couldn't feel any lag, but it was extremely painful for me to use, especially in games.
So, what would be your recommendations for a 20"+ widescreen gaming monitor that won't break the bank or give input lag? thanks!
Originally posted by: mikuto
First of all, many thanks to xtknight for such an amazing guide. And all the information gathered in this thread... incredibly useful; you can hardly find anything like it anywhere else (and surely not in one place); everybody who contributed to it did a great job.
And now for a quick question - you knew I had to have one, didn't you: I've noticed NEC has introduced new models for the GX2 series, named GX2 Pro. There's basically a 70GX2 Pro, a 90GX2 Pro, and a 20WGX2 Pro - at least that's what's available in Europe. While it's pretty clear they changed the panel in the 17'' and 19'' models, I can't find out what changed for the 20'' one. The specs for 20WGX2 and 20WGX2 Pro are identical, and I mean *identical* word for word, but there's a price difference of roughly 70 EUR between the two at a shop that has both. Could it be just that the older model is at end of life, and they want to get rid of it from their stocks, but in practice they would be the exact same monitor, with just a different name on top, to keep it in sync with the naming of the lower models?
Basically, I'd be interested to know if anybody has any information about the new Pro models, as I'm looking to buy both the 19'' and the 20'' versions - for different uses, of course.
Cheers.
Originally posted by: xtknight
With regards to the NEC GX2/Pro moniker, this will answer your question: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/content/nec_press.htm#gx2%20pro
Basically the bezel changed and it has a new soundbar (maybe). It is just to keep it consistent with the other introduced Pro models.
Originally posted by: mikuto
Thanks, xtknight. I guess that settles it for the 20'' model - I get to save my 70 euros .
Any idea if the new 19'' panel is of the same general quality as the old one? I'm looking to buy it for somebody that seems to be very sensitive to motion artifacts. Although it's not going to be used for gaming, there will be lots of scrolling on the screen - large technical documents, drawings and text - and of course the occasional photo and movie. I figured I should get a fast panel to minimize any ghosting, but I would really hate to find out that the faster advertised 2 ms response time actually resulted in overdrive-related errors.
Another thing I'd be very interested about is how the vertical viewing angles of the 90GX2 compare to the Samsung 940BF. Could they be any better, by any chance (wishful thinking at work here)?
I'm asking because I didn't get to see the NEC panel in action yet, but I've seen the Samsung, and the vertical angles (especially negative) are ridiculously narrow, to the point of making it hardly usable in my opinion. I know that's how the TN technology works, but I'm still hoping some are not as bad as the others. What makes it worse for the Samsung is that it cannot be tilted at negative angles, while the NEC seems to have this ability (-5 degrees I think, right?) - this would help a little, but a wider angle would help even more .
LTM190E4-L02 from samsung electronics LCD division can present 16.7M color depth(true 8bit).
For reference,
LTM190E4-L31 : 250nit, 25ms, 1500:1, 16.7M(6bit+Hi-FRC)
LTM190E4-L03 : 300nit, 8ms(G/G) 1000:1, 16.7M(true 8bit)
The LG L204WT wouldn't be a bad choice.
But still, judging by what I've learned so far, it looks like the 20WGX2 is the best non-TN gaming monitor one can buy at the moment, so it's not like there's much choice, unless you can live with the limitations of TN, correct?Originally posted by: xtknight
Even on the 20WGX2 it's still hard to focus on small objects in motion in BF2.
Whaaat? Now you're scaring me :Q. You mean the screen stays at the same, frozen, angle and there's nothing you can do to tilt it, at least backwards?I don't know about the tilting but my 20WGX2 can't tilt at all.
True, but in practice I've found the inconsistency to be much less annoying when viewing the screen at a 90 degrees angle. Once you move away from that position, even by a few degrees, upwards or (especially) downwards, some areas that used to be 'not too bad' suddenly become 'horrible', and even the ones that were 'good' change to 'quite bad', if you know what I mean. Tilting could help you adjust the monitor depending on how you're sitting at the desk, so that you stay close to that 90 degrees sweet spot (if you can call it that...).I think tilting would only offset the problem; still, the top and bottom parts of the screen are inconsistent with each other.
I was actually going to buy the 971P instead of the 20WGX2, but then came Engel and his review (don't get me wrong, I'm grateful for it). I was willing to put up with the possibly flimsy stand, the lack of standalone controls (hate that), the possibly visible dithering (I have good eyesight and I'm veery picky) and the slightly worse tones from a perpendicular view, but I was expecting excellent performance in all other categories. Now that there's a distinct possibility I'll notice other problems as well, it just doesn't seem worth the money anymore.Why don't you look into a panel like the Samsung 971P or Dell 1907FPV? The 1907FPV is true 8-bit as I just found out (and a listing for it in the Recommendations may follow). Plus they use VA (vertical alignment) tech so you don't have that viewing angle shiftiness and ununiformity of TN panels.
Originally posted by: mikuto
But still, judging by what I've learned so far, it looks like the 20WGX2 is the best non-TN gaming monitor one can buy at the moment, so it's not like there's much choice, unless you can live with the limitations of TN, correct?Originally posted by: xtknight
Even on the 20WGX2 it's still hard to focus on small objects in motion in BF2.
Whaaat? Now you're scaring me :Q. You mean the screen stays at the same, frozen, angle and there's nothing you can do to tilt it, at least backwards?I don't know about the tilting but my 20WGX2 can't tilt at all.
True, but in practice I've found the inconsistency to be much less annoying when viewing the screen at a 90 degrees angle. Once you move away from that position, even by a few degrees, upwards or (especially) downwards, some areas that used to be 'not too bad' suddenly become 'horrible', and even the ones that were 'good' change to 'quite bad', if you know what I mean. Tilting could help you adjust the monitor depending on how you're sitting at the desk, so that you stay close to that 90 degrees sweet spot (if you can call it that...).I think tilting would only offset the problem; still, the top and bottom parts of the screen are inconsistent with each other.
I was actually going to buy the 971P instead of the 20WGX2, but then came Engel and his review (don't get me wrong, I'm grateful for it). I was willing to put up with the possibly flimsy stand, the lack of standalone controls (hate that), the possibly visible dithering (I have good eyesight and I'm veery picky) and the slightly worse tones from a perpendicular view, but I was expecting excellent performance in all other categories. Now that there's a distinct possibility I'll notice other problems as well, it just doesn't seem worth the money anymore.Why don't you look into a panel like the Samsung 971P or Dell 1907FPV? The 1907FPV is true 8-bit as I just found out (and a listing for it in the Recommendations may follow). Plus they use VA (vertical alignment) tech so you don't have that viewing angle shiftiness and ununiformity of TN panels.
As for the Dell, I don't think it's available around here at the moment, and besides, I'm very reluctant to buy anything from that company, especially monitors, for a variety of reasons, of which I'm sure you know a few as well...
Another reason is that I was looking for something not that expensive as the smaller monitor, and the 940BF seemed to fit the bill, until I saw the angles. Now I think it could be worth paying extra for the 90GX2 if it's even slightly better. If that turns out not to be the case, I may just settle for the cheaper 940BF and be done with it.
Phew!... Yeah, looking more carefully through the User's Guide, they are saying it can tilt 30 degrees upwards and 5 downwards. Maybe it will help; I'll have to find a shop where I can get a good look at the 90GX2; I'll report my findings regarding the viewing angles.Originally posted by: xtknight
I lied. Apparently it tilts quite a considerable amount (maybe 15 degrees).
I does look that way at the moment, indeed. But a few weeks ago... And then there's the fact that I'm not that enthusiastic about the whole new Wide fashion. I will be watching movies on it, but not in such high quality to really matter if they have some black bands on the top and bottom. I will be playing games, but the truth is I only have time to play one at the moment, and that's BF2, which doesn't quite support wide screen (you can either have the image stretched, and I *hate* that, or hack the config files, and then you'll get booted from all online servers, 'cause that stupid Punkbuster thing sees your greater field of view as a hack ). And for general office work and programming, a 4x3 or even 5x4 could be better - at least that's what I'm used to.971P over the 20WMGX2...? No way.
I'd recommend either the 90GX2 or 20WMGX2...nothing less. Maybe the VP930b, but I don't know how it compares to the 90GX2. The VP930b, with its updated panel, is probably a better choice. And you don't get all the downfalls of TN tech. OTOH, the 90GX2 has a glossy panel. Or you could just get the 20WMGX2 which whips both of them into shape.
Originally posted by: ghoti
Hello again xt,
I still haven't pulled the trigger on a new monitor. A few more questions:
What is the downside of a non-HDCP-compliant monitor if one is going to run VISTA? I was looking at the Viewsonic VP930B. I see it's said to be probably non-compliant (HDCP).
I'm puzzled about the response time specs shown in the Guide -- some specify a measure (e.g., g2g) and some don't -- how do the VP930B response times stack up against the recommended 'Gaming' monitors?
How do you think the VP930B would be for gaming? (I do a fair amount of gaming tho not much FPS; I also do a lot of 'browsing' and a bit of office work; also expect to watch an occasional movie).
I've read a number of reviews now for the 20WMGX2. and aside from the $$$, I see criticism of that monitor's alleged inability to handle 4:3, and also the problem of annoying screen reflection in a lighted room.
Comments? and thanks much for all your work and input.
Originally posted by: thecompguru
xtknight, after much debate i decided to try out the lg l20wt from circuit city, it was 70$ off this week so i jumped on it. Got 2 like i wanted, didnt come with dvi cables... bit odd since they support hdcp(ordered some). They look great though even right now without the dvi, however, i do have the one question. Set them both up to identical settings on the monitors, and configured there color with nvidias display optimization wizard a few times, and regardless of that, i have one monitor that looks a bit more blue than the other. Its hard to tell which one is truely the right shades of grey when displaying grey and whites and such, but i think one is just more blue than it should be. How do i know which is correct, how to i calibrate it better (do i need adjust the colors on the monitor itself, and if so, in refrence to what). I feel like i shouldnt have to manually adjust the colors... My thought though.. is they should look identical, is one defective or is this normal. Thanks
Inability to handle 4:3? The following quote is from the User's Manual:Originally posted by: ghoti
I've read a number of reviews now for the 20WMGX2. and aside from the $$$, I see criticism of that monitor's alleged inability to handle 4:3, and also the problem of annoying screen reflection in a lighted room.
The above features look like full support of 4x3 or 5x4 screen sizes to me.EXPANSION: Selects the zoom mode.
[*]FULL: The image is expanded to 1680 x 1050, regardless of the resolution.
[*]ASPECT: The image is expanded without changing the aspect ratio.
[*]OFF: The image is not expanded.
NOTE: EXPANSION is available only resolution under 1280 x 1024.
Originally posted by: ghoti
I've read a number of reviews now for the 20WMGX2. and aside from the $$$, I see criticism of that monitor's alleged inability to handle 4:3, and also the problem of annoying screen reflection in a lighted room.
Comments? and thanks much for all your work and input.
Originally posted by: mikuto
Inability to handle 4:3? The following quote is from the User's Manual:Originally posted by: ghoti
I've read a number of reviews now for the 20WMGX2. and aside from the $$$, I see criticism of that monitor's alleged inability to handle 4:3, and also the problem of annoying screen reflection in a lighted room.
The above features look like full support of 4x3 or 5x4 screen sizes to me.EXPANSION: Selects the zoom mode.
[*]FULL: The image is expanded to 1680 x 1050, regardless of the resolution.
[*]ASPECT: The image is expanded without changing the aspect ratio.
[*]OFF: The image is not expanded.
NOTE: EXPANSION is available only resolution under 1280 x 1024.
From what I read in the review on widescreengamingforum.com, 'under 1280 x 1024' supposedly means 'at or below 1280 x 1024', not strictly below; and I hope that's how it is, since I'd like to be able to play BF2 in 1:1 1280x1024 - I don't mind the black bars at the edges of the screen, I just want the pixels to be perfect.
xtknight, would it be possible to confirm the above, please? By the way, what's your screen configuration for BF2 (sorry if you answered these questions before, couldn't find them)?
Ohhh... bummer. But thanks a lot for the information, xtknight. I do have a 7800GS, so that should work, but it still feels wrong to have to hack around to get 1:1. Scaling, maybe I would understand, but just placing a native image in the middle of a bigger matrix of pixels... I can't believe they couldn't be bothered to write a couple more lines of code in that firmware.Originally posted by: xtknight
With DVI, I can confirm that I can not get EXPANSION options when sending a resolution of 1280x1024, 1024x768, or 800x600 to the LCD. I confirmed that the LCD was receiving an untouched signal by using the GPU driver (force monitor scaling) and by the monitor's OSD. It doesn't work for me in DVI-PC or DVI-HD mode, either. There may have been a revision to the NEC 20WMGX2.
That would mean stretching a 4x3 image to 16x10; I don't think I could stand it. I know many people are not bothered by it, but whenever I see a circle turned oval, it drives me up the wall. I just looked at the screenshot on widescreengamingforum.com and... UGH! It's fascinating how different the impression can be from one individual to another.I don't play BF2, but when I did I used +szx 1680 +szy 1050, and that's all. Looked great to me.