LCD Buyer's Guide

[40sTheme]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: 40sTheme
That's what I was thinking because of the low response time. Should I look at something else? It's colors/contrast/etc look sub par.

Depends...what are you using your LCD for/how much are you looking to spend/what desired diagonal size/etc?

Well, i'm looking at ~$200. Not too much more than that. Size; 19-20 is fine for me. I'm just not exactly sure what a normal contrast ratio/brightness/etc is. Your thread tells what things are and their meanings, but what is a normally accepted 'good' measure for different things in an LCD?

 

[burek]

I bought an NEC 20WMGX2 from BestBuy last week, and I just noticed some burn in

i took some pics:

http://img42.imagevenue.com/view.php?image=07797_Picture_002_122_130lo.jpg
http://img166.imagevenue.com/view.php?image=07806_Picture_003_122_142lo.jpg
http://img43.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=07815_Picture_004_122_236lo.jpg
http://img103.imagevenue.com/view.php?image=07823_Picture_007_122_198lo.jpg

anyone have this? it goes away after 5 min. but its only been a week, should this be happening? what will happen after a year:Q

other than that this monitor is amazing!

 

[amd7674]

rxblitzrx: both our panels are S-IPS panels (LM201U05-SLA1)
So how do you likes yours so far?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: burek
I bought an NEC 20WMGX2 from BestBuy last week, and I just noticed some burn in

i took some pics:

http://img42.imagevenue.com/view.php?image=07797_Picture_002_122_130lo.jpg
http://img166.imagevenue.com/view.php?image=07806_Picture_003_122_142lo.jpg
http://img43.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=07815_Picture_004_122_236lo.jpg
http://img103.imagevenue.com/view.php?image=07823_Picture_007_122_198lo.jpg

anyone have this? it goes away after 5 min. but its only been a week, should this be happening? what will happen after a year:Q

other than that this monitor is amazing!

There must be a lot of defective NECs floating around. I've heard at least three reports of this problem but also plenty of reports of it not happening. It doesn't happen at all on my unit.

Chances are, it won't get much worse after a year. If it's defective, it's defective. This is not normal for an LCD, and not all 20WMGX2s do it. I suggest exchanging it.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: 40sTheme

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: 40sTheme
That's what I was thinking because of the low response time. Should I look at something else? It's colors/contrast/etc look sub par.

Depends...what are you using your LCD for/how much are you looking to spend/what desired diagonal size/etc?

Well, i'm looking at ~$200. Not too much more than that. Size; 19-20 is fine for me. I'm just not exactly sure what a normal contrast ratio/brightness/etc is. Your thread tells what things are and their meanings, but what is a normally accepted 'good' measure for different things in an LCD?

Honestly you won't get much with <= $200. I'd say that's really skimping when it comes to LCDs. You could try the Sceptre 20" ($200 AR): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824112006

You'd have to spend at least $280 (which I'd definitely recommend) for the next step up. Which would be the ViewEra 20" P-MVA:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824138061

As for the specs, I don't take them into account for the most part. I just read reviews on the LCD and infer the panel type from certain specs like viewing angle. 'Good' varies too much between manufacturers.

If you want a higher quality (than the Sceptre 20") and cheaper (than the ViewEra) but 19" screen I'd recommend the $240 NEC 90GX2:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824002129

 

[xtknight]

The first LCD with <0.5 frames of input lag (max)! Looks like Samsung is the first to crack down on and eliminate this phenomenon.

Samsung 226BW: 8 ms. max

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1144130&page=5
http://www.lesnumeriques.com/duels.php?ty=6&ma1=38&ma2=36&mo2=170&p2=1708&ph=1
^^
(Check out its performance compared to our old star, the Acer AL2216.)

Also it's the first 22" LCD to use the Samsung B-TN panel.

 

[tw33ter]

How does this SAMSUNG 206BW compare to the NEC 20WMGX2 ?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824001095

 

[rxblitzrx]

Originally posted by: amd7674
rxblitzrx: both our panels are S-IPS panels (LM201U05-SLA1)
So how do you likes yours so far?

I got mine mid January (check the build date of my rig) and I'm just now starting to REALLY appreciate it. It took me a while to learn how to tweak the gamma settings using Riva Tuner (www.lcdresource.com) but once I got it right.... WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW. The picture is absolutely AWESOME.

The way I can tell is because I spend a LOT more time on the computer, purely because the display looks so freaking good. It's amazing how much difference a nice LCD can make. If you read a few of my comments in here, I talk a lot about Screen Door Effect and how it was my main issue with this LCD. I've been able to resolve 90% of that issue by proper gamma adjustments along with raising the brightness.

My old settings:
Brightness 50
Contrast 85
Custom Gamma Curve that sucked.

New settings:
Brightness 85
Contrast 82
Custom Gamma Curve - Use the reference gray shades on lcdresource.com
Able to pick up black down to 5
All gray shades are distinct and rampant until 250

What do your settings look like?

 

[Pugnate]

Hey how is the Viewsonic VX2245wm?

 

[3LEMENT0]

I'm looking at the 19": NEC MultiSync 90GX2, 1280x1024 (5:4) right now but are there additions to the gaming LCD's? I'm looking at 19" specifically will be utilizing dual screen with my current one.

 

[shilatoe]

I planned to buy a new PC 6 mos ago after Vista was released. Finally the time is near. I have been following this wonderful topic for a long time to make sure I got the best LCD monitor for my needs. (Great thanks and appreciation to xtnight and the other regulars who have made my research so manageable). My needs are for a great gaming monitor for the fast FPS games and the large strategy/RPGs as well as some photo and video editing. xtnight's experience convinced me that the NEC 20WMGX2 was the way to go. But now with high gamut panels coming out and 22" WS beginning to show up (bigger is better) I am hesitating.
Does anyone know when high gamut 22" WS screens might appear and what would be the best choice of current models of the 22" WS screens if I can't wait?
Any thoughts or knowledge on this would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Sandrix]

Hi, I need help quick!!!
I have oportunity to buy LCD AG NEOVO K-A19 3ms 850:1 Widescreen 19"
Down are specification, are I am not very good with lcd monitors so i need help. I would use this monitor mostly for playing games (a lot), watching movies and surfing on net.
Please

Panel Size 19.0? Wide Screen
Brightness 300cd/m2 (Typical)
Contrast Ratio 850:1 (Typical)
Viewing Angle (H/V) 170o / 160o (Typical)
Display Resolution WXGA 1440 x 900
Input Signal Analog
Response Time 3ms (GTG)
Net Dimension 440 x 352 x 207mm
(17.3" x 13.6" x 8.0")
Net Weight 4.0Kg (8.8lbs)

 

[0x0BADF00D]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: burek
I bought an NEC 20WMGX2 from BestBuy last week, and I just noticed some burn in

i took some pics:

http://img42.imagevenue.com/view.php?image=07797_Picture_002_122_130lo.jpg
http://img166.imagevenue.com/view.php?image=07806_Picture_003_122_142lo.jpg
http://img43.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=07815_Picture_004_122_236lo.jpg
http://img103.imagevenue.com/view.php?image=07823_Picture_007_122_198lo.jpg

anyone have this? it goes away after 5 min. but its only been a week, should this be happening? what will happen after a year:Q

other than that this monitor is amazing!

There must be a lot of defective NECs floating around. I've heard at least three reports of this problem but also plenty of reports of it not happening. It doesn't happen at all on my unit.

Chances are, it won't get much worse after a year. If it's defective, it's defective. This is not normal for an LCD, and not all 20WMGX2s do it. I suggest exchanging it.

xt,

just to update you on my LCD20WGX2's noisy VGA port. I took it into my local NEC service center. At first no-one could see it. However, what they did see was the image persistance - I had a notepad window up for a few minutes, and when I closed it , you could see faint white glow where it used to be. Stupidly I said "oh no, that doesn't bother me". We took it into the tech's lab, where finally he could see the rapid shimmering noise. He thought it was reasonable for VGA. I thought he was wrong. We compared it with some cheapie LCD monitor on his desk, and it too had some noise, but more like a static pattern, and most likely from all those uber RF sources cluttered all around. It was nothing like the faint snowcrash I had to put up with.

Anyway, I spoke to the manager of the place and he said that they'd order another one in, and let me compare them. If the other one is just like that, then I take mine back, otherwise I take the new unit.

I expect the new unit to have no noise, but now I'm worried about burn-in. How much burn-in is too much? The manual does mention it, but I believe it's something that should happen after many hours of displaying the same thing, not minutes.

 

[amd7674]

Originally posted by: rxblitzrx

Originally posted by: amd7674
rxblitzrx: both our panels are S-IPS panels (LM201U05-SLA1)
So how do you likes yours so far?

I got mine mid January (check the build date of my rig) and I'm just now starting to REALLY appreciate it. It took me a while to learn how to tweak the gamma settings using Riva Tuner (www.lcdresource.com) but once I got it right.... WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW. The picture is absolutely AWESOME.

The way I can tell is because I spend a LOT more time on the computer, purely because the display looks so freaking good. It's amazing how much difference a nice LCD can make. If you read a few of my comments in here, I talk a lot about Screen Door Effect and how it was my main issue with this LCD. I've been able to resolve 90% of that issue by proper gamma adjustments along with raising the brightness.

My old settings:
Brightness 50
Contrast 85
Custom Gamma Curve that sucked.

New settings:
Brightness 85
Contrast 82
Custom Gamma Curve - Use the reference gray shades on lcdresource.com
Able to pick up black down to 5
All gray shades are distinct and rampant until 250

What do your settings look like?

I've set R82,G70,B80 (how about you?) Bright/Contr 50/70. I'm still changing/adjusting bright/contrast. I still have to find a good balance that produces nice picture and it is easy on eyes .
Do you set your brightness/contrast levels via your video card driver or are you using LCD's OSD to set it. How is bright 85/contrast82 on your eyes?

 

[Low Radiation]

Tomorrow i should get LG l204wt or Samsung 205BW. I'd like to ask xtknight and the rest of you guys to tell me what do you think about those 2 models.

It will be used for absolutely everything, gaming included, pro work excluded, so either would be sufficient, but which one to take?

Maybe the most important thing is that i need it to be comfortable to look at, 'cause i have very sensitive eyes.

How do both of them look when you set brightness to some normal level?

I've heard that 205BW is very bright and didn't hear anything about 204wt. Which has better contrast on medium brightness?

Are they both good enough for games?

I hope you got the point

thanx in advance

 

[rxblitzrx]

Originally posted by: amd7674

Originally posted by: rxblitzrx

Originally posted by: amd7674
rxblitzrx: both our panels are S-IPS panels (LM201U05-SLA1)
So how do you likes yours so far?

I got mine mid January (check the build date of my rig) and I'm just now starting to REALLY appreciate it. It took me a while to learn how to tweak the gamma settings using Riva Tuner (www.lcdresource.com) but once I got it right.... WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW. The picture is absolutely AWESOME.

The way I can tell is because I spend a LOT more time on the computer, purely because the display looks so freaking good. It's amazing how much difference a nice LCD can make. If you read a few of my comments in here, I talk a lot about Screen Door Effect and how it was my main issue with this LCD. I've been able to resolve 90% of that issue by proper gamma adjustments along with raising the brightness.

My old settings:
Brightness 50
Contrast 85
Custom Gamma Curve that sucked.

New settings:
Brightness 85
Contrast 82
Custom Gamma Curve - Use the reference gray shades on lcdresource.com
Able to pick up black down to 5
All gray shades are distinct and rampant until 250

What do your settings look like?

I've set R82,G70,B80 (how about you?) Bright/Contr 50/70. I'm still changing/adjusting bright/contrast. I still have to find a good balance that produces nice picture and it is easy on eyes .
Do you set your brightness/contrast levels via your video card driver or are you using LCD's OSD to set it. How is bright 85/contrast82 on your eyes?

I'll try your settings. The only thing I changed with the LCD OSD is the bright/contr. My color is set to 6500K with no change to RGB.

I personally like the 85/82 Bright/Contrast. What I did was first use the LCD Tweaking Page on www.lcdresource.com to find the contrast number that showed the most grey scale. Too low and it gets too dull. Too high and you lose divisions of the scale. 82 was the highest I could get it without losing division. (I'm guessing higher is better here.)

Next, I used Riva Tuner to tweak the gamma. This cleared up some banding in the middle grey area of the reference scale, as well as divided the black scale down to 5. The HP LP2065 has issues with the darker tones, but with gamma correction I was able to see divisions that low. No amount of tweaking with the Bright/Contr on the monitor will show divisions below 15.

Finally, I jacked the brightness up to 85 to get rid of as much Screen Door Effect as I could. 90 is too harsh on my eyes. 100 is insane. 75 shows too much SDE. So that's pretty much it for me.

~Cheers

 

[amd7674]

I'll try your settings. The only thing I changed with the LCD OSD is the bright/contr. My color is set to 6500K with no change to RGB.

I personally like the 85/82 Bright/Contrast. What I did was first use the LCD Tweaking Page on www.lcdresource.com to find the contrast number that showed the most grey scale. Too low and it gets too dull. Too high and you lose divisions of the scale. 82 was the highest I could get it without losing division. (I'm guessing higher is better here.)

Next, I used Riva Tuner to tweak the gamma. This cleared up some banding in the middle grey area of the reference scale, as well as divided the black scale down to 5. The HP LP2065 has issues with the darker tones, but with gamma correction I was able to see divisions that low. No amount of tweaking with the Bright/Contr on the monitor will show divisions below 15.

Finally, I jacked the brightness up to 85 to get rid of as much Screen Door Effect as I could. 90 is too harsh on my eyes. 100 is insane. 75 shows too much SDE. So that's pretty much it for me.

~Cheers[/quote]
I know one thing for sure it is very hard to calibrate LCD... ;-). I really like my new LCD, except sometimes I see some flickering (I'm copying pasting from another dpreview.com forums).

*cut*
It looks like a rapidly rolling wave of the fluorescent backlight going down the monitor. Sometimes I get this with a solid background of some
other colors, too. When it's a normal working screen, I don't see
it. Most noticable in grays and midtones and only after a warmup
Seems like it does not like running too dim.
*/cut*

Have you experiance this? I wonder if I should exchange my LCD or this is a nature of this monitor?

There is a discussion about this at Monitor Flicker???

 

[rxblitzrx]

Originally posted by: amd7674
I'll try your settings. The only thing I changed with the LCD OSD is the bright/contr. My color is set to 6500K with no change to RGB.

I personally like the 85/82 Bright/Contrast. What I did was first use the LCD Tweaking Page on www.lcdresource.com to find the contrast number that showed the most grey scale. Too low and it gets too dull. Too high and you lose divisions of the scale. 82 was the highest I could get it without losing division. (I'm guessing higher is better here.)

Next, I used Riva Tuner to tweak the gamma. This cleared up some banding in the middle grey area of the reference scale, as well as divided the black scale down to 5. The HP LP2065 has issues with the darker tones, but with gamma correction I was able to see divisions that low. No amount of tweaking with the Bright/Contr on the monitor will show divisions below 15.

Finally, I jacked the brightness up to 85 to get rid of as much Screen Door Effect as I could. 90 is too harsh on my eyes. 100 is insane. 75 shows too much SDE. So that's pretty much it for me.

~Cheers

I know one thing for sure it is very hard to calibrate LCD... ;-). I really like my new LCD, except sometimes I see some flickering (I'm copying pasting from another dpreview.com forums).

*cut*
It looks like a rapidly rolling wave of the fluorescent backlight going down the monitor. Sometimes I get this with a solid background of some
other colors, too. When it's a normal working screen, I don't see
it. Most noticable in grays and midtones and only after a warmup
Seems like it does not like running too dim.
*/cut*

Have you experiance this? I wonder if I should exchange my LCD or this is a nature of this monitor?

There is a discussion about this at Monitor Flicker???
[/quote]

Sorry, I don't notice any wave-like motion on my screen. One time I thought I saw some shaking but that's only because my arm was hitting the desk, or I was typing too hard. Also, I'm using a new monitor stand instead of the one that came with the panel. The original HP stand only drops the screen down to 4" off the desktop. My desk is already too tall to begin with and it was giving me neck pain. I've been a laptop user for a long time and I got used to looking down at the screen. I got the Neo-Flex by Ergotron from CompUSA on clearance for like 25 bucks. It retails at like $70. Great stand that made my setup perfect.

Wow, that's really scary though. I just read the thread in your link and I bought mine around the same time as they did. Hopefully mine will be ok. So far I've had zero issues. No dead pixels, stuck pixels, both analog and dvi inputs work, usb hub works. This is one seriously awesome LCD.

 

[imported_hyper]

I'm strongly considering an NEC 20WMGX2 but I'd like to know how it performs with a PS3 over an HDMI-DVI cable first...

Does it scale properly or is everything stretched? I mean for both 16:9 games and 4:3 BC games. I heard it does but the picture looks horrible. Is this true?

Thank you very much for any help.


Edit: Oh and, uh, how do I get to the last page of a particular topic..? no seriously, I spent like 10 minutes hitting the last possible page number until I reached my post and bookmarked it... there's no last page link. I know the answer to this will be embarrassing but I have to know. It was painful getting to the end of this topic.

 

[Painman]

Originally posted by: hyper
I'm strongly considering an NEC 20WMGX2 but I'd like to know how it performs with a PS3 over an HDMI-DVI cable first...

Does it scale properly or is everything stretched? I mean for both 16:9 games and 4:3 BC games. I heard it does but the picture looks horrible. Is this true?

Thank you very much for any help.


Edit: Oh and, uh, how do I get to the last page of a particular topic..? no seriously, I spent like 10 minutes hitting the last possible page number until I reached my post and bookmarked it... there's no last page link. I know the answer to this will be embarrassing but I have to know. It was painful getting to the end of this topic.

Welcome to AT, and props to your taste in avatars.

As to the 1st question, I'm not sure. Someone here will probably know. As to the second, you can directly get to the last page of a thread from the forum's thread listing by clicking "last".

 

[Wiktor]

Originally posted by: 0x0BADF00D

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: burek
I bought an NEC 20WMGX2 from BestBuy last week, and I just noticed some burn in

i took some pics:

http://img42.imagevenue.com/view.php?image=07797_Picture_002_122_130lo.jpg
http://img166.imagevenue.com/view.php?image=07806_Picture_003_122_142lo.jpg
http://img43.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=07815_Picture_004_122_236lo.jpg
http://img103.imagevenue.com/view.php?image=07823_Picture_007_122_198lo.jpg

anyone have this? it goes away after 5 min. but its only been a week, should this be happening? what will happen after a year:Q

other than that this monitor is amazing!

There must be a lot of defective NECs floating around. I've heard at least three reports of this problem but also plenty of reports of it not happening. It doesn't happen at all on my unit.

Chances are, it won't get much worse after a year. If it's defective, it's defective. This is not normal for an LCD, and not all 20WMGX2s do it. I suggest exchanging it.

xt,

just to update you on my LCD20WGX2's noisy VGA port. I took it into my local NEC service center. At first no-one could see it. However, what they did see was the image persistance - I had a notepad window up for a few minutes, and when I closed it , you could see faint white glow where it used to be. Stupidly I said "oh no, that doesn't bother me". We took it into the tech's lab, where finally he could see the rapid shimmering noise. He thought it was reasonable for VGA. I thought he was wrong. We compared it with some cheapie LCD monitor on his desk, and it too had some noise, but more like a static pattern, and most likely from all those uber RF sources cluttered all around. It was nothing like the faint snowcrash I had to put up with.

Anyway, I spoke to the manager of the place and he said that they'd order another one in, and let me compare them. If the other one is just like that, then I take mine back, otherwise I take the new unit.

I expect the new unit to have no noise, but now I'm worried about burn-in. How much burn-in is too much? The manual does mention it, but I believe it's something that should happen after many hours of displaying the same thing, not minutes.

I noticed the same problem some time ago on my 20WGX2 (noise and burn in). I don't notice it day to day, but now that you pointed it out I did some tests and it's the most noticable with uniform rgb (20, 20, 20) to rgb (40, 40, 40) more less.

I always attributed this to the VGA cable and my laptop (that's the only way I use it now). I hope it will go away once I start using the DVI cable.

BTW. I also have 1 red stuck subpixel that I really only see on a 100% black background. Our monitors must be clones

 

[0x0BADF00D]

Originally posted by: WiktorI noticed the same problem some time ago on my 20WGX2 (noise and burn in). I don't notice it day to day, but now that you pointed it out I did some tests and it's the most noticable with uniform rgb (20, 20, 20) to rgb (40, 40, 40) more less.

I always attributed this to the VGA cable and my laptop (that's the only way I use it now). I hope it will go away once I start using the DVI cable.

BTW. I also have 1 red stuck subpixel that I really only see on a 100% black background. Our monitors must be clones

Crap. I too blamed the noise on my laptop, cable... But I had a couple of 2007WFP Dells a few weeks before getting the NEC and noticed no difference between VGA and DVI (they sucked for other reasons, though). My DVI has no noise, but still has burn-in problems. BTW, when did you get yours? What revision is it?

 

[amd7674]

Sorry, I don't notice any wave-like motion on my screen. One time I thought I saw some shaking but that's only because my arm was hitting the desk, or I was typing too hard. Also, I'm using a new monitor stand instead of the one that came with the panel. The original HP stand only drops the screen down to 4" off the desktop. My desk is already too tall to begin with and it was giving me neck pain. I've been a laptop user for a long time and I got used to looking down at the screen. I got the Neo-Flex by Ergotron from CompUSA on clearance for like 25 bucks. It retails at like $70. Great stand that made my setup perfect.

Wow, that's really scary though. I just read the thread in your link and I bought mine around the same time as they did. Hopefully mine will be ok. So far I've had zero issues. No dead pixels, stuck pixels, both analog and dvi inputs work, usb hub works. This is one seriously awesome LCD.[/quote]

With the brightness over 50 I don't see anything, could be that you have it high enough that you don't see it... It is all about proper settings...ehehe... Yes I agree the stand could be little shaky, but it my setup it is not an issue. If you don't mind conduct some tests with brightness at 0 and view anandtech forums (lots of mid gray) to see if you can see any 'flickering'

TIA

 

[DangerDave]

xtknight, have you seen the Maximum Pc review of the NEC 20WMGX2? They gave it a 4. They said it was majorly flawed, and other bad stuff. Are they talking about the same lcd thats on your list, or am I missing something here?

 

[Wiktor]

Originally posted by: 0x0BADF00D

Originally posted by: WiktorI noticed the same problem some time ago on my 20WGX2 (noise and burn in). I don't notice it day to day, but now that you pointed it out I did some tests and it's the most noticable with uniform rgb (20, 20, 20) to rgb (40, 40, 40) more less.

I always attributed this to the VGA cable and my laptop (that's the only way I use it now). I hope it will go away once I start using the DVI cable.

BTW. I also have 1 red stuck subpixel that I really only see on a 100% black background. Our monitors must be clones

Crap. I too blamed the noise on my laptop, cable... But I had a couple of 2007WFP Dells a few weeks before getting the NEC and noticed no difference between VGA and DVI (they sucked for other reasons, though). My DVI has no noise, but still has burn-in problems. BTW, when did you get yours? What revision is it?

I got it mid-October last year, it is the european version (without the M). I don't know where to check the revision.

I just thought that perhaps this has something to do with running it at 60Hz while as far as I know this monitor supports 75Hz refresh rate? Just an idea.

My laptop has a GMA 910/15 intel card.

I think most people wouldn't notice/care about these imperfections. This monitor has many strong points going for it and I guess it's as close to a CRT replacement as it gets (for CRT fans ).