LCD Buyer's Guide

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: integra15
I am looking to purchase a 20in widescreen monitor.

After reviewing site and reviews on Newegg.com I have it narrowed down to several models. What I am looking for is a monitor that has the most even backlighting, a good picture on resolutions less than 1680x1050, and the best color reproduction

SCEPTRE X20G-Naga III Black 20.1" - $260

ViewSonic X Series VX2035WM Black-Silver 20.1" - 240

NEC Display Solutions 20WMGX2-BK Black-Silver 20.1" - $$570

If money was not a factor, I would easily choose the NEC, however what I am wondering is, would either of the other choices be a good choice? What type of TFT technology do the SCEPTRE and the Viewsonic use? I could not find it listed anywhere. Can anyone make a recomendation?

SCEPTRE X20G-Naga uses P-MVA.
VX2035WM uses TN.
20WMGX2 uses AS-IPS.

The Sceptre isn't too bad, but I would recommend the Acer AL2051W (glossy) because AFAIK the Sceptre has an annoying light-up logo and other DVI issues.

 

[ghoti]

Originally posted by: xtknight
ghoti:

I had a chance to calibrate the VP930b (rev 2). Check here. http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...?catid=31&threadid=2002685&STARTPAGE=1[/q

Thanks xt! Looks pretty good, although the greyscale test performance is still the pits.

Interesting: I took the ICM profile and went to display properties and made it my default; no discernable difference from the 100/61/6800 summary you gave. I wonder if I am doing it right as far as using the ICM profile?

I thought I saw an earlier posting (perhaps by you) that from Rev. 2 to Rev. 3, ViewSonic changed the type of panel they are using?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: ghoti

Originally posted by: xtknight
ghoti:

I had a chance to calibrate the VP930b (rev 2). Check here. http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...?catid=31&threadid=2002685&STARTPAGE=1

Thanks xt! Looks pretty good, although the greyscale test performance is still the pits.

Interesting: I took the ICM profile and went to display properties and made it my default; no discernable difference from the 100/61/6800 summary you gave. I wonder if I am doing it right as far as using the ICM profile?

I thought I saw an earlier posting (perhaps by you) that from Rev. 2 to Rev. 3, ViewSonic changed the type of panel they are using?

No, don't use Windows ICM profiling or the NVIDIA ICM loader. Use xcalib as recommended in the OP of the thread I linked.

I did indeed say they changed the panel. (Post above: "I believe the contrast and response time controller changed from rev 2 to 3. Also some of the controls (OSD) are less annoying and more intuitive. No more forced resolution notice.")

Grayscale performance is indeed poor on the VP930b. Do you see lots of discoloration and noise like I do on the gray level test? Eh, at least it doesn't manifest itself too often in general usage. At least it shows the first 16 grays at all.

 

[Matt2]

Well I went to CC last night and bought the Gateway FPD2485W on impulse. CC was selling it for $649.99 so I hit my $700 limit right on the nose after taxes. I decided to go with this Gateway instead of the Dell 2407wfp from I^2 because I felt a lot safer buying from a B&M store.

After reading the reviews about this monitor I expected to return it first thing this morning.

I must say that I am impressed by this monitor. It might have helped that my expectations were lowered by reading the user reviews here on the forums, but I am impressed none the less. The panel I received had almost perfect backlight uniformity, maybe a little bit brighter on the bottom, but the difference is negligible. No dead pixels at all. Response time is fast, but there is a bit of problem with "smearing" on dark colors. If I run the mouse pointer over a black or dark webpage you can see a black smear trailing the pointer. This sounds really bad, but it's very subtle. I literally had to put my face up to the monitor and run the pointer back and forth to see it. If I hadnt read about the issue on {H}OCP forums, I might not have ever noticed.

Then there is the issue of banding. I heard that this monitor had horrible banding problems. I ran xtknight's gradient linearity tests and there is indeed banding, but it's about 100 times better than people make it out to be. It's a little worse than my Dell 2007wfp (S-IPS), but I cant see it being any better on the 2407wfp. I played a couple hours of XBOX 360via vga cable on this bad boy and I didnt notice the banding at all while gaming except for the main menu in splinter cell: DA where I could notice it a little bit. All in all, the banding issue was definitely not a deal breaker for me.

The colors out of the box were a little too saturated and a little too bright for my tastes. I used an ICC profile provided by Jarred that was supposedly professionally calibrated and now everything is right where it should be.

All in all, I really like this monitor. Last night I wasnt so impressed, but now that I have everything set to how I like it, I think its a great monitor for a great price.

Now what to do with my S-IPS 2007wfp?

 

[nemesiz]

Now what to do with my S-IPS 2007wfp?

If you haven't an use, the most logical and obvious idea is sell the LCD monitor on an auction site or advertise the sale in the local newspaper, thus recouping part of your original investment. Although if you or other users have a second hand monitor, try investigating whether there are any local charities in your area who re-furbish donated computer components and peripherals, to distribute to the local community. Otherwise to dispose of the monitor properly and recycle the components contact the monitor manufacturer or council, who should have a scheme to pick up the monitor.

 

[gorka]

xtknight et al,

have you guys heard anything about this monitor yet?

seems odd, no reviews yet, when its launching next month already.


http://www.viewsonic.com/HDLife/webcam/vx2255/specs.htm

With all the Sammy "A" panels...I think I'm going to wait a bit more.

 

[tw33ter]

I'm thinking about buying a 20WMGX2, but I'm wondering whether or not my x850xt agp will be able to run it at it's native res?

 

[mikuto]

Originally posted by: tw33ter
I'm thinking about buying a 20WMGX2, but I'm wondering whether or not my x850xt agp will be able to run it at it's native res?

You can get some information here: http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics.html
Unfortunately they only include information on 1600x1200 with 4xAA and 8xAF, and not for 'plain' 1600x1200. I'd say normally the performance for that screen size should be close to the native size of 1680x1050 we're interested in; if anything, the latter has fewer pixels, so it should be slightly faster.

Your card seems to be roughly in the same league as my 7800GS AGP. I'd say it depends on the game: while it could be fine in Half Life 2 with no AA and no AF, I doubt it would work in BF2. It also depends on your requirements for smoothness - minimum and average frame rate; for me, BF2 at 1024x768 with no AA and 8xAF, textures on medium (because of the 256 MB of RAM) and everything else on high is OK, but I'm not so sure about 1280x1024 yet - on some 'heavy' maps, it sometimes stutters and lags. Basically, I'm planning to use the 20WGX2 at a lower screen size for games, with 1:1 mapping from the graphics card, since the monitor doesn't seem to support that on DVI; I'm not sure what ATI cards support that option.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: tw33ter
I'm thinking about buying a 20WMGX2, but I'm wondering whether or not my x850xt agp will be able to run it at it's native res?

Not sure really. Try asking in the Video thread about the X850XT AGP @ 1680x1050. My guess is ~30 FPS in newer games. That's a wild guess.

Originally posted by: gorka
xtknight et al,

have you guys heard anything about this monitor yet?

seems odd, no reviews yet, when its launching next month already.


http://www.viewsonic.com/HDLife/webcam/vx2255/specs.htm

With all the Sammy "A" panels...I think I'm going to wait a bit more.

Save yourself all the worrying and get the L226WT. It's probably better than even the "S" 226BW panels anyhow.

 

[DustyNL]

After some long thinking I decided to buy 19" 5:4 instead of widescreen, mainly because I do flightsimulator a lot, and it doesn't support widescreen very good.
I ordered the ViewSonic vp930, hoping it will be rev3.
Is there any way to check if it's rev3 when it arrives? Maybe it can be found on the back of the monitor?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: DustyNL
After some long thinking I decided to buy 19" 5:4 instead of widescreen, mainly because I do flightsimulator a lot, and it doesn't support widescreen very good.
I ordered the ViewSonic vp930, hoping it will be rev3.
Is there any way to check if it's rev3 when it arrives? Maybe it can be found on the back of the monitor?

Back I think, yeah. It is on a label somewhere. It could possibly be determined by the SN (Serial Number in OSD).

 

[CrazyGuy]

i wanted to buy a 19" 5:4 as well...
i play games but not that often...
wanted to get the samsung 940BF but saw the new samsung 932B got a very nice look...
both price are not much difference..
which one will be a better choice?

 

[Torque79]

you just had to add the new LG 22" over the weekend, when I just ordered the acer on Thursday did'nt you?? Time to test the return policy of my local PC store.

 

[LocutusX]

Any opinions on the Samsung 206BW?

It's new, and available at most American electronics chains now, I believe.

NewEgg customer reviews are favorable. 20" widescreen, dunno anything about panel type.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Torque79
you just had to add the new LG 22" over the weekend, when I just ordered the acer on Thursday did'nt you?? Time to test the return policy of my local PC store.

Heh you wouldn't believe how many times I've had buyer's remorse.

Originally posted by: CrazyGuy
i wanted to buy a 19" 5:4 as well...
i play games but not that often...
wanted to get the samsung 940BF but saw the new samsung 932B got a very nice look...
both price are not much difference..
which one will be a better choice?

Probably the 940BF. It's just about the fastest LCD out there, but to tell you the truth I have not heard a thing about or seen the 932B.

Originally posted by: LocutusX
Any opinions on the Samsung 206BW?

It's new, and available at most American electronics chains now, I believe.

NewEgg customer reviews are favorable. 20" widescreen, dunno anything about panel type.

It's another one of Samsung's 2xxBW TN/HDCP series. This is another model I don't have much info on. I believe it's an evolution of their 205BW with an added or better dynamic contrast feature.

 

[BernardP]

Originally posted by: LocutusX
Any opinions on the Samsung 206BW?

There is a short but informative review (in french) here:

http://www.lesnumeriques.com/article-203-1752-36.html

You can use Google to translate if need be. They give the 206BW a top rating in its size/price class, praising especially its color accuracy and response time.

 

[Sokratz]

Trying to catch up to the lingo in the LCD area is proving quite difficult. I'm still sitting on a 19" PF790 that I've had for years and would like to upgrade to something a bit more fancy. I have about a 500-700 budget. I game, but not too many fast FPS's. Unfotunately I do do a lot of office work (constant RDP sessions) so something that's nice to look at for hours on end is a necessity. I also just ordered a new setup with a 8800GTS (640MB) and I'd like to put it to good use. Any suggestions? Are there any late model monitor roundups that I can take a look at?

Thanks much,
Sokratz

 

[mushroom3]

hey xtknight, i was just curious why you put up the l226wt but not the 226bw, i thought the 226bw was suppose to be better and with a lot less backlight bleeding

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Sokratz

I love your nick but the Socratic Method really doesn't suit itself so well to LCD recommendations.

Trying to catch up to the lingo in the LCD area is proving quite difficult. I'm still sitting on a 19" PF790 that I've had for years and would like to upgrade to something a bit more fancy. I have about a 500-700 budget. I game, but not too many fast FPS's. Unfotunately I do do a lot of office work (constant RDP sessions) so something that's nice to look at for hours on end is a necessity. I also just ordered a new setup with a 8800GTS (640MB) and I'd like to put it to good use. Any suggestions? Are there any late model monitor roundups that I can take a look at?

Thanks much,
Sokratz

The NEC 20WMGX2 (20" wide) is ever so conveniently placed within the 500-700 range. As for looking at text for long periods of time, it may not be the best choice, but it is certainly the best for everything overall. The 20WMGX2 is definitely better when calibrated for text use. However, uncalibrated, standard DV mode and ADVM on (you'll know what I mean when you get the LCD), the LCD shows text in a fairly decent light. Although there may be another LCD in the range slightly better for prolonged text use, the NEC is undoubtedly better as an overall LCD (especially for putting GPUs to use). Therefore, here the choice is easy.

If the reflections on the NEC's glossy screen are a problem for you, then the Samsung 215TW (21" w) is a good alternative (just note the frequency-discussed and condemned input lag). Input lag is a debatable thing I can't comment on. We don't even know if the sheer effects are just psychological, even though there is an actual delay due to a buffer chip.

Both LCDs have a native res of 1680x1050, and both will provide a very clear image with the NEC having the slight edge due to lower dot pitch and also the anti-glare coating. The NEC may be better for text editing due to its higher contrast at lower luminances. The Samsung however has a lighter-colored pixel lining, making screen door effect (SDE) less apparent. For most, SDE is not a problem, though if you have exceptional eyesight it may show you its rear end.

The 8800GTS should be able to power 1680x1050 flawlessly with high-quality texture settings (due to large RAM), and should also provide "shaderful" environments while at the same time being practically resilient to super-high antialiasing/AF settings. You might even be able to enable rotated grid AA for some super HQ with older games. Combine that with the NEC and you will have one insane gaming experience. The funnest time I've had on this monitor was with "Just Cause". Not that the Samsung will be much worse, unless the input lag manifests itself in your daily usage.

I had better wrap up this essay, hopefully that made your choice just a bit easier.

P.S. Another option is a 24"w like the Dell 2407 which may be available in that range for you depending on your place of order.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: mushroom3
hey xtknight, i was just curious why you put up the l226wt but not the 226bw, i thought the 226bw was suppose to be better and with a lot less backlight bleeding

Not that I know of. LG TNs are generally ahead of Samsungs. If a significant 'new wave of thinking' comes in the next few days, you'll see the 226BW up there. Not really enough conclusive evidence other than the past, and LG wins there. Either is better than the Acer 22".

 

[Zebo]

XTKNIGHT you really think a PVA like Samsung 215TW is going to be better than LaCies 321 or NEC's 2190UXi? I assume so since you say #1 constitutes best in category regardless of price. However the later is geared toward high end desktop publishers and those makers would have switched to PVA if it were at all superior. I havnt seen either but knowing what I know about IPS and PVA I don't see how one can recommend like you did. The later also have 12 bit lookup tables and even come with hoods and calibration devices. The later costs 2.5x more so why would it be worse? usually things that cost more are better... In fact on the desktop publishing and photo editing catagories you don't even have *any* 90i series NEC's or Lacie which is their primary specialty..go to the digital photo forums you'll see thats all they like to use. Any thoughts?

Anyway I just ordered a 1990FX for my dad for bday who is going close up blind at 70 so needs huge pixels and it was not on your list. Just based on high price and with knowledge IPS is superior. Did I make wrong choice?

 

[Sokratz]

Thanks xtknight, I really appreciate your suggestions. One question on the Dell, you had mentioned some banding issues under general issues? Is that still a problem with the latest revisions?

 

[moogen]

tried finding my answer on here, but this thread is a big MONSTER!! i'm looking to buy a gaming monitor, and was pretty much settled on a 22" widescreen LCD (the acer, as a matter of fact). i figured 22" was the sweet spot as the price jump from 20" to 22" is relatively small, and the jump from 22" to 24" relatively big. HOWEVER, recently i've been reading about how you need to make sure you have a strong enough vid card to run the lcd at it's native resolution, etc. i'm planning on getting a 7600GT, or something about the same power. i've also been reading if about how if gaming is your primary focus (and oh, it is ) how a regular 3:4 ratio might work better than 16:9 (or 16:10). what's your thoughts on this? am i better off getting a regular ol' 20" monitor than some 22" widescreen jaziness? i'm in the market for a sub-$300 monitor, what models might be good for me? thanks!

 

[0x0BADF00D]

Originally posted by: Wiktor

Originally posted by: 0x0BADF00D

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: burek
I bought an NEC 20WMGX2 from BestBuy last week, and I just noticed some burn in

i took some pics:

http://img42.imagevenue.com/view.php?image=07797_Picture_002_122_130lo.jpg
http://img166.imagevenue.com/view.php?image=07806_Picture_003_122_142lo.jpg
http://img43.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=07815_Picture_004_122_236lo.jpg
http://img103.imagevenue.com/view.php?image=07823_Picture_007_122_198lo.jpg

anyone have this? it goes away after 5 min. but its only been a week, should this be happening? what will happen after a year:Q

other than that this monitor is amazing!

There must be a lot of defective NECs floating around. I've heard at least three reports of this problem but also plenty of reports of it not happening. It doesn't happen at all on my unit.

Chances are, it won't get much worse after a year. If it's defective, it's defective. This is not normal for an LCD, and not all 20WMGX2s do it. I suggest exchanging it.

xt,

just to update you on my LCD20WGX2's noisy VGA port. I took it into my local NEC service center. At first no-one could see it. However, what they did see was the image persistance - I had a notepad window up for a few minutes, and when I closed it , you could see faint white glow where it used to be. Stupidly I said "oh no, that doesn't bother me". We took it into the tech's lab, where finally he could see the rapid shimmering noise. He thought it was reasonable for VGA. I thought he was wrong. We compared it with some cheapie LCD monitor on his desk, and it too had some noise, but more like a static pattern, and most likely from all those uber RF sources cluttered all around. It was nothing like the faint snowcrash I had to put up with.

Anyway, I spoke to the manager of the place and he said that they'd order another one in, and let me compare them. If the other one is just like that, then I take mine back, otherwise I take the new unit.

I expect the new unit to have no noise, but now I'm worried about burn-in. How much burn-in is too much? The manual does mention it, but I believe it's something that should happen after many hours of displaying the same thing, not minutes.

I noticed the same problem some time ago on my 20WGX2 (noise and burn in). I don't notice it day to day, but now that you pointed it out I did some tests and it's the most noticable with uniform rgb (20, 20, 20) to rgb (40, 40, 40) more less.

I always attributed this to the VGA cable and my laptop (that's the only way I use it now). I hope it will go away once I start using the DVI cable.

BTW. I also have 1 red stuck subpixel that I really only see on a 100% black background. Our monitors must be clones

NEC got another unit for me to have a look at. And it's exactly the same. Sigh... I'm keeping the one I have. Strangely enough, after it spent a week being off, I don't see anymore burn-in happening.

 

[0x0BADF00D]

Originally posted by: 0x0BADF00D
NEC got another unit for me to have a look at. And it's exactly the same. Sigh... I'm keeping the one I have. Strangely enough, after it spent a week being off, I don't see anymore burn-in happening.

Spoke too soon. The burn-in is still there. Oh well.