LCD makes me dizzy?

[Nnyan]

Hello all,

I'm in the process of building a new PC and I would like to get myself an LCD monitor. I"m looking for 19" to 22" and I would consider myself a gamer. Here is the problem.

I'm very sensitive to monitor refresh rates. On a CRT 85Hz is the MINIMUM I can put up with and 100Hz is best. I've done some reading and (from what I understand) LCD's don't have a refresh rate like CRT's do, which is fine and dandy.

But my problem is that on LCD's that are set (in windows) to 60Hz I will get dizzy after 10-20 mins. If I take that same monitor and set the refresh rate to 75Hz I'm fine all day long. I'm not sure what "spec" is causing my dizzyness/nausea.

So what I'm looking (ideally) is a 20.1 widescreen LCD which supports 75Hz refresh rates at the default resolution. This should be ideal for a gamer with minimal/no ghosting.

Any suggestions?

 

[xtknight]

No offense, but it's probably psychological. Most LCDs don't even support 75 Hz in any way shape or form. If they do, they often discard every fifth frame to equal 60 Hz. There is no change at all in the update speed. You may just not react well to the backlights in the LCD. Despite that, I'm not aware of any 20.1" widescreen LCDs that support 75 Hz. The 20.1" 4:3 LG L2000C may support 72 Hz at 1600x1200.

 

[Tasiin]

Do you get dizzy when playing games on an LCD at 60Hz or on the desktop? There should really be no difference at all in a still image between refresh rates on an LCD with a DVI connection. An LCD with a VGA connection may get slightly blurrier at higher refresh rates as a CRT does.

Refresh rates work exactly the same on both CRTs and LCDs in regard to the maximum number of images that can be displayed at one time, an LCD at 60Hz will never display more than 60 frames per second which may be bothering you -- it just won't flicker like a CRT will at that setting.

If you're getting dizzy while playing games, it might just be due to the low framerates.
No 20" or larger LCD will support a true 75Hz over single-link DVI (1600x1200 or 1680x1050 at 75Hz exceeds the maximum bandwidth of that connection), though some like the HP LP2065 will do 75 over VGA if you're willing to put up with the panel lottery for that particular model.

If it is the framerate that's getting to you, I don't think any LCD will be able to do what you want unfortunately.

 

[Nnyan]

Thanks for the info guys. In reality I'm not sure what it is about LCD's that bother me. Again I don't know if its refresh rate or what. All I can say is that I've been on a few LCD's that didn't seem to bother me (short term) and several that ended up bothering me (after several hours on them). This is just on the desktop, in games it seems to get a bit worse.

 

[BassBomb]

it takes a bit of time to get used to an LCD.... happened to me when i switched from CRT

 

[hans007]

i had a 24" acer lcd for a few days. that is the only time an LCD made me dizzy. It was either because that LCD was so awful, or because i couldn't get used to having a screen that large so near my face.

 

[giantpinkbunnyhead]

OP, when you say LCD's make you dizzy... does it only happen when looking at text-based screens, or does it happen even after looking through photos or playing games? I only ask because some LCD's apparently make people dizzy if this thing called "Clear Type" is selected to smooth out the edges of fonts. Personally I love it, but others hate it. Maybe that's the culprit?

 

[ubercaffeinated]

you sure it's not motion sickness resulting from fps gaming? try using an lcd without gaming for an entire day and see how you feel. check out the cleartype thing too. fps games will screw me up royally even with 15 minutes of play.

 

[ForumMaster]

it is just a matter of getting used to it. happened to me to when i finally got an LCD screen. i think it may have something to do with the frequency of the backlight. wonder if this doesn't happen with LED backlit LCD. would be interesting to find out...

anyway, refresh rate doesn't matter in LCD's as you know. you'll get used to it. in LCD's atleast there isn't the flicker you get with any CRT screen under 85Hz.

 

[Nnyan]

again thanks for all the good advice! I don't recall exactly but I think it started bothering me during the install of vista and it did get worse after playing some WoW.

I had no clue about the backlight or cleartype problems, I'm going to do some testing on the wife's LCD and see what I find. You may be right that I just need time to adjust.

For someone who is sensitive to this sort of stuff can you guys recommend a really good LCD (20.1+) that would be good for gaming?

 

[0roo0roo]

get a good lcd that does full 8bit color. some only do 6bit, dithering iew...
as for refresh...
go to howstuffworks.com and read about crt and lcd. you will see lcd refresh is completely different. 1hz would be flicker free on an lcd, but your screen would change only 1 frame per second. all the pixels are updated at once, there is no flicker.

perhaps you had the brightness too high, like many displays the brightness default is for showroom dazzle instead of real image quality/comfort, so bright it burns ur freakin eyes. turn it down and it will be more comfortable.

at the top of this forum is a stickied lcd buyer guide, look in there for recommendation.

desk ergonimics remain the same. should be about 24inches away, and the top of the screen should be about eye height so you look slightly down at the display. too close too far too high or low and it will cause you discomfort like any crt

 

[nullpointerus]

Also, make sure you have v-sync *on*. If that causes your framerates to drop too much, use Rivatuner or DXTweaker to enable triple buffering on a per-game basis--the nVidia control panel's triple buffering setting only works for OpenGL games, unfortunately.

EDIT: If you want to know whether your problem is psychological, you could do a blind test. For several days, use only normal Windows apps: no video, no games. Each day, have someone else change the refresh rate of your LCD to something different, but don't ask what it is. Keep notes on which days the LCD makes you dizzy. After this period is up, compare your experiences with the refresh rates to see if you can really tell the difference.

 

[Mem]

But my problem is that on LCD's that are set (in windows) to 60Hz I will get dizzy after 10-20 mins. If I take that same monitor and set the refresh rate to 75Hz I'm fine all day long. I'm not sure what "spec" is causing my dizzyness/nausea.

I doubt its the refresh rate since LCDs don't flicker like CRTs,anyway I'm thinking it could be the brightness of the LCD(they are way brighter then CRTs in my experience)so try turning that down and see if that helps.

 

[Roguestar]

Originally posted by: giantpinkbunnyhead
OP, when you say LCD's make you dizzy... does it only happen when looking at text-based screens, or does it happen even after looking through photos or playing games? I only ask because some LCD's apparently make people dizzy if this thing called "Clear Type" is selected to smooth out the edges of fonts. Personally I love it, but others hate it. Maybe that's the culprit?

I like cleartype. Helps with irritating aliasing. :thumbsup:

 

[eno]

Originally posted by: Nnyan


I'm very sensitive to monitor refresh rates. On a CRT 85Hz is the MINIMUM I can put up with and 100Hz is best. I've done some reading and (from what I understand) LCD's don't have a refresh rate like CRT's do, which is fine and dandy.

Any suggestions?

I too am bothered by low refresh rates on CRT's. I just replaced my Sony 21" CRT that I would normally run at 1600x1200 100hz. I could tell the difference between 85hz and 100hz. These last 8800 drivers dropped my 100hz to 85hz which really reminded me of the flicker. Now it isn't bad at 85hz but 100hz IS better for me at least.

I have a 24" LG sitting on my desktop now @ 1920x1200 60hz. I know it is different and there isn't the same flicker affect like 60hz would be on a CRT but I have noticed a slight flicker affect here and there. No where close to the CRT affect though. It must be that the image is being refreshed at 60 which is causing me to notice. I haven't spent alot of time with this monitor yet so I don't know if a lower rez at 75hz will get rid of it. But I don't think I will even bother sense it really isn't a issue for me now. Time will tell though.

 

[0roo0roo]

do not run lcds at lower res, they have physical pixels. run at native resolution only

 

[IlllI]

Originally posted by: eno

Originally posted by: Nnyan


I'm very sensitive to monitor refresh rates. On a CRT 85Hz is the MINIMUM I can put up with and 100Hz is best. I've done some reading and (from what I understand) LCD's don't have a refresh rate like CRT's do, which is fine and dandy.

Any suggestions?

I too am bothered by low refresh rates on CRT's. I just replaced my Sony 21" CRT that I would normally run at 1600x1200 100hz. I could tell the difference between 85hz and 100hz. These last 8800 drivers dropped my 100hz to 85hz which really reminded me of the flicker. Now it isn't bad at 85hz but 100hz IS better for me at least.

I have a 24" LG sitting on my desktop now @ 1920x1200 60hz. I know it is different and there isn't the same flicker affect like 60hz would be on a CRT but I have noticed a slight flicker affect here and there. No where close to the CRT affect though. It must be that the image is being refreshed at 60 which is causing me to notice. I haven't spent alot of time with this monitor yet so I don't know if a lower rez at 75hz will get rid of it. But I don't think I will even bother sense it really isn't a issue for me now. Time will tell though.

sure that flicker isnt ghosting?

either that or it might be fluctuation with the fluorescent backlighting

 

[Nnyan]

I'm going to "borrow" a friends LCD for a week or so to see if the problem is one of adjustment (as per some of the recs here) or just me getting used to it.

 

[pcslookout]

I have the same problem here. I have a 20 inch NEC 20WMGX2 and sometimes its unbearable, Thinking about going back to my 19 inch NEC CRT if I can't fix this problem. Doesn't seem to happen when playing games though.

I think the problem may be my eyes though because I have to look pretty close to the lcd to read the text. I am far sided and the text is so small. I tried making it bigger but it messes up webpages, windows, and everything.

 

[MegaVovaN]

Originally posted by: eno
These last 8800 drivers dropped my 100hz to 85hz which really reminded me of the flicker. Now it isn't bad at 85hz but 100hz IS better for me at least.

You can set custom refresh rate for ur resolution, so if you are sure ur hardware can do 100hz at 1600x1200, set it to that.


Pclookout - wear glasses.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: pcslookout
I have the same problem here. I have a 20 inch NEC 20WMGX2 and sometimes its unbearable, Thinking about going back to my 19 inch NEC CRT if I can't fix this problem. Doesn't seem to happen when playing games though.

I think the problem may be my eyes though because I have to look pretty close to the lcd to read the text. I am far sided and the text is so small. I tried making it bigger but it messes up webpages, windows, and everything.

It could be screen door effect. The 20WMGX2 has more of this than comparing LCDs.

The OP should probably stick to a high-contrast MVA (rather least susceptible to SDE) that has a good viewing angle and lower brightness capability. You may want to try the ViewSonic VP930b. It's the most comfortable LCD I've ever used. It has a big dot pitch so text is easy to read. White is nice and natural but not overbright. Another choice is the Samsung 971P which has more accurate colors at default but is a little more expensive, and probably not worth it since response time is slower. Be sure to use it at low brightness settings and adjust gamma if you need to. I think the VP930b's default is 'SRGB' and that'll make anyone's eyes bleed but the other settings are among the most comfortable, amazingly.

 

[MegaVovaN]

Speaking of big pitch, 22" monitors that run 1680x1050 have big pitch, 20" and 21" running same resolution have small pitch.

 

[pcslookout]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: pcslookout
I have the same problem here. I have a 20 inch NEC 20WMGX2 and sometimes its unbearable, Thinking about going back to my 19 inch NEC CRT if I can't fix this problem. Doesn't seem to happen when playing games though.

I think the problem may be my eyes though because I have to look pretty close to the lcd to read the text. I am far sided and the text is so small. I tried making it bigger but it messes up webpages, windows, and everything.

It could be screen door effect. The 20WMGX2 has more of this than comparing LCDs.

The OP should probably stick to a high-contrast MVA (rather least susceptible to SDE) that has a good viewing angle and lower brightness capability. You may want to try the ViewSonic VP930b. It's the most comfortable LCD I've ever used. It has a big dot pitch so text is easy to read. White is nice and natural but not overbright. Another choice is the Samsung 971P which has more accurate colors at default but is a little more expensive, and probably not worth it since response time is slower. Be sure to use it at low brightness settings and adjust gamma if you need to. I think the VP930b's default is 'SRGB' and that'll make anyone's eyes bleed but the other settings are among the most comfortable, amazingly.

xtknight ok but the problem is I already bought the NEC 20WMGX2 from newegg. Though thankfully with a credit card in case I am not happy or the lcd monitor was damaged. Will games look as good on a ViewSonic VP930b? Will i notice the difference from my NEC 20WMGX2 AS-IPS panel to a ViewSonic VP930b MVA panel ?

 

[Nnyan]

xtknight: thanks for the tips, if I wanted a 20-22" which would you recommend?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: pcslookout

xtknight ok but the problem is I already bought the NEC 20WMGX2 from newegg. Though thankfully with a credit card in case I am not happy or the lcd monitor was damaged. Will games look as good on a ViewSonic VP930b? Will i notice the difference from my NEC 20WMGX2 AS-IPS panel to a ViewSonic VP930b MVA panel ?

It goes without saying that there's a difference between the NEC and VP930b. The VP930b's detail isn't as good when you're looking at it straight (MVA panels hide details depending on the angle). The contrast is actually better than the NEC. Uniformity isn't as good, and dark tones aren't shown quite as well. It's lower resolution too. Response time isn't quite as fast but input lag is less. That's pretty much it.

I loved gaming on my VP930b but like I say dark tones don't show up as well so maybe seeing enemies in, e.g., Wolfenstein will be more difficult. Response time was no issue most of the time, but perhaps 5% of the time when I came across a really dark texture, the MVA's high dark-tone response time (60-80ms) showed through.

Originally posted by: Nnyan
xtknight: thanks for the tips, if I wanted a 20-22" which would you recommend?

For 20.1", the HP LP2065 (4:3) is great on the eyes. Even though S-IPS panels usually have more SDE, I notice absolutely none on the Dell 2007FP (same panel) at work. They also put AMVA panels in the LP2065, though AFAIK it's still a pretty decent panel.

The Samsung 215TW, while expensive, is a great 21.0" 16:10 choice.

The LG L226WT (22" 16:10) isn't too shabby either. At low brightnesses it still maintains a decent contrast and it's really nice for reading text. I've also used that one personally and I can say it would be a good choice. Maybe the viewing angles of it may bother you though since it is a TN after all.

The HP LP2065 is likely the best choice of those three. The Dell 2007FP (S-IPS) at work performs heavenly things on the eyes. You could grab the 2007FP but these days it's a panel lottery, plus it's pretty expensive for what it is. With the cheaper HP even you're more likely to get an S-IPS panel.