LCD or CRT for gaming?

mitarbl

Junior Member
Sep 1, 2005
17
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I`m looking for a monitor, it will be used on gaming machine (7800gtx), i read lots of reviews, Samsung 4ms looks nice, but still not faithfully showing colors, and i dont like the fact that all of them LCD-s have some issues when playing DVD movies.
So shoud i buy quality 21" CRT or 19" LCD with 4ms?
 

BenSkywalker

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,140
67
91
You will get several different answers to this, in reality you should decide for yourself what is the most important elements for your viewing pleasure-

Razor Sharp Text
Perfect Geometry

Flexible Res
Significantly better contrast
Better Color Accuracy

There are other factors, obviously a CRT is still much faster then a LCD, but if you don't notice the ghosting then that isn't an issue. If you don't mind the off colors that won't be an issue, but since you brought it up I think that would likely be a major issue for you. I would say that your best bet is to figure out what is most important to you, and then make a choice based on that.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
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71
I don't know about this one. It depends if that Samsung is a PVA or TN panel. If it was a PVA, the colors aren't going to get much better than that. What was the model number of it?

Take look at my post in this thread:

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...atid=31&threadid=1693997&enterthread=y

Originally posted by: xtknight
-CRTs don't necessarily have better color reproduction. There was an LCD released by NEC that showed more of the NTSC gamut than CRT's did. It was specifically targeted toward graphics professionals who really needed the BEST.
(in reply to someone else)-CRTs do have a little bit of smearing. Hence "Medium-short persistence phosphors". Ghosting is something else, and I wish people would use other terms.
-Refresh rates aren't perfectly applicable to LCDs.
-LCDs have perfect geometry. Perfect for CAD/CAM work.
-LCDs don't flicker, so you don't have to worry about the refresh rate in that regard.
-I love the perfectly flat look of my LCD.
-LCDs can reach higher resolutions in the same amount of space. (only for notebooks at this point)
-LCDs don't give me a head/neckache whereas CRTs do, even at 85 Hz.
-LCDs have very little ELF/VLF emission. Some people said that caused cancer (I'm not saying I believe that). Just pointing that out.
-LCDs are always perfectly in focus. They never go out of focus and you don't have to risk your life to adjust it correctly (on some older CRTs). Thus LCDs reproduce a more detailed image (assuming equivalent source, resolution, and dot pitch of course).

All in all, if my LCD didn't have any motion blur, I'd be perfectly happy with it. The colors aren't that bad to me. I'm not a graphics professional. I think the colors look better more vibrant. They look more real, whereas the CRTs tend to have a red/warm cast over everything, but that's just my opinion, so don't start a flame war over it. My dad says LCDs have a blue cast over them.

With Windows Vista, the resolution scaling issue should be a thing of the past if they go with vector rendering. However, the benefits of settings your game to low resolution will still be gone, I believe (if you want perfect scaling quality).

Personally, I can't wait for FED/SED/NEDs (whatever you want to call them). No deflection yoke so no harmful ELF radiation. One argument gone. Thinner, another issue gone. Less power usage than LCDs. Perfect geometry, poof. Larger color gamut than CRTs, check. I think they're perfectly in focus. They still flicker (I believe) and have a set resolution though.

This omits the obligatory facts of less power usage and less depth as well.

If that Samsung 4ms was a PVA full-color LCD panel, I'd get a high-end CRT and hold out for SED/OLED. If it wasn't you can try a high-end S-PVA LCD. Beware though the PVA panel might introduce the motion blur. Samsung 193P+ (19") is your best bet at this point.

If either the Dell 2001FP or 2005FPW is within your price point, you'll want to give them a try for higher resolution. 1600x1200 for 2001FP or 1680x1050 widescreen for the 2005.

In both cases though, SED/OLED are supposedly amazing, but you may want to save some cash. I'm not sure what sizes they will be introduced in. For all I know, they could be released in huge undesktop-like sizes to begin with (I think the SEDs will).
 

tuteja1986

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2005
3,676
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0
I still use 22" Mitsubishi Diamond Pro 2070SB on my main computer. I do how ever have a Dell2005FPW on the 2nd main computer. I think my 22" CTR has better image quality than the dell 2005FPW and it can do high res upto 2048 x 1536 @ 86. Anyways If you wanting less space takage, widescreen aspect , hd res then go buy a dell 2005fpw but if you want to play some serious gaming at high res/everything on high then go and buy a nice CTR. CTR still are better for gamming , well mine is anyways.
 

johnnqq

Golden Member
May 30, 2005
1,659
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0
if you went all out on a gtx you might as well get an fw900- 24inch crt. the only thing annoying about crts is setting convergence (size too).
 

Dainas

Senior member
Aug 5, 2005
299
0
0
CRTs win hands down 9/10th of the time, any good CRT (like a 19inch phillips 109b $180) will have far better colour, definition and refresh rate, which shouldnt be a concern if you spend more than $100 on it. LCD people who argue; ether never have played on a good CRT and dont know what their missing, are bitter about their lack of space or that fact that they payed $350+ for a display that only shows up to 1280x1024 and ghost like mad. There are good LCDs, the problem is the decent ones that can compaire to a good 19 or 21inch CRT cost $600+

There are LCDs that dont ghost or have higher resolution than 1280x1024, or have nice colour for less than $600, problem is not one of them has all of these.
 

CP5670

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2004
5,559
638
126
If you're looking for color accuracy (dark colors and gradients in particular) then a CRT is definitely a better choice. There are a few 10-bit LCDs that may be better but they are extremely expensive (that NEC one xtknight mentioned costs $6700). The 2070SB and the FW900 are probably the best CRTs overall; they both have their strengths that pretty much balance each other out IMO, although the FW900 is much easier to find on ebay. The thing is, all the good CRTs are impossible to find brand new these days, so if you're wary of getting a used one then an LCD is your only option. For an LCD get at least a 20" one, so you can use that GTX at a decent resolution.
 

jkostans

Member
Jul 19, 2004
33
0
0
CRT all the way. Faster, more accurate, and flexible resolution. When your 7800gtx isn't top of the line anymore, you're not gonna want to be running games at 1600x1200+ or whatever your LCD native res is. Hell I run F.E.A.R at 1024x768 because I want the best possible framerates when I'm playing games online, if I had an LCD I would have to deal with some damn crappy image quality. But on my 21" CRT everything looks sharp and theres 0 ghosting. LCDs are nice for office work, but I prefer a good CRT for games and movies. It's too bad there aren't more monitors like the FW900, that thing is amazing!
 

Unkno

Golden Member
Jun 16, 2005
1,659
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0
it all comes down to money. If you have enough money, getting any quality LCD (such as the Dell 2005FPW for $335) is as good as any crt. There are barely any new crts out, crt is dead, LCD and SED are the future. There hasn't been any new development on CRTs for like 10 years and more.


If your a Hardcore gamer (ones that actually play for cash) then crt is the only way to go. For everyone else, any quality LCD is as good as a CRT
 

Unkno

Golden Member
Jun 16, 2005
1,659
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Originally posted by: Dainas
CRTs win hands down 9/10th of the time, any good CRT (like a 19inch phillips 109b $180) will have far better colour, definition and refresh rate, which shouldnt be a concern if you spend more than $100 on it. LCD people who argue; ether never have played on a good CRT and dont know what their missing, are bitter about their lack of space or that fact that they payed $350+ for a display that only shows up to 1280x1024 and ghost like mad. There are good LCDs, the problem is the decent ones that can compaire to a good 19 or 21inch CRT cost $600+

There are LCDs that dont ghost or have higher resolution than 1280x1024, or have nice colour for less than $600, problem is not one of them has all of these.


$600 is way off...it may be true like a year ago. But if you do some research today, you could get many LCDs that can be comparable to high end crts. The dell 2005fpw is an example, for as little as $335.
 

kmmatney

Diamond Member
Jun 19, 2000
4,363
1
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The color accuracy argument doesn't hold much weight. Unless you are a graphic artist and must have prints that accurately match what you have on your screen, color acuracy doesn't matter. In real life, you'll find LCDs to have more "vibrant" colors than CRTs. I have 5 CRTs in my basement (SONY, Viewsonic, and NECs) and my single LCD has way better colors - stunning in comparison, after a slight adjust to the Gamma. Movies are great as well, at least in my experience.

Resolution flexibility has never been an issue. I usually game at 1280 x 960 with unnoticable black bars on the top and bottom - proportional scaling. With a 7800GTX you'll be able to play at full resolution (either 1280 x 1024 or 1280 x 960) with full eye candy, which is nice. You'd need a 20" LCD to get the most out of your video card.
 

CP5670

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2004
5,559
638
126
The CRTs with the superbright/dynamic mode have the same vibrancy effect, but with proper dark colors. OP: try to get a look at some of the stuff mentioned here in person. Monitors are a somewhat subjective thing and the best way to decide is to see each one for yourself.
 

jiffylube1024

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
7,430
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71
I would stay away from any 4ms screens right now, because they are using "overdrive" and other silly technologies. Pretty much any 8ms screen on DVI will treat you well .
 

Dainas

Senior member
Aug 5, 2005
299
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$600 is way off...it may be true like a year ago. But if you do some research today, you could get many LCDs that can be comparable to high end crts. The dell 2005fpw is an example, for as little as $335.

Yeah thats a nice display but the max resolution is 1680 x 1050 and the pixels are 0.258mm, hardly pin prick sharp like a good CRT. I will admit there are alot of CRTs that people claim are very good but have fat dot pitch though. Where did you see one for $335? I'd pick one up in a heartbeat as a secondary or for my old Voodoo 5500 mac(it has DVI).
 

jiffylube1024

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
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Originally posted by: Dainas
Yeah thats a nice display but the max resolution is 1680 x 1050 and the pixels are 0.258mm, hardly pin prick sharp like a good CRT. I will admit there are alot of CRTs that people claim are very good but have fat dot pitch though.

Most people don't run their CRT's at pin-prick sharp resolutions (< .258mm). Very rarely have I heard of people running a 19" CRT at higher than 1280X1024 (90% of 19" CRT's look like crap above 1024 or 11xx), and most people with 20" or 21" screens just do 1600X1200.

If you need ultra fine resolution, then sure, run your 20" or 21" CRT at 19xx by 14xx, but that is not what the market does.

Also, dot pitch hardly dictates sharpness in LCD's. I'd argue a 17"/20"/24" LCD has much sharper text than all but the most expensive (professional) CRT's .
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
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Originally posted by: jiffylube1024
Most people don't run their CRT's at pin-prick sharp resolutions (< .258mm). Very rarely have I heard of people running a 19" CRT at higher than 1280X1024 (90% of 19" CRT's look like crap above 1024 or 11xx), and most people with 20" or 21" screens just do 1600X1200.

If you need ultra fine resolution, then sure, run your 20" or 21" CRT at 19xx by 14xx, but that is not what the market does.

Also, dot pitch hardly dictates sharpness in LCD's. I'd argue a 17"/20"/24" LCD has much sharper text than all but the most expensive (professional) CRT's .

Besides, you wouldn't be able to see a damn thing at 19x14 on a 19". Unless you enjoy squinting, the LCDs are not giving you anything less really. The reason isn't because the LCDs are technically incapable, it's because the companies figure there is no market at all for high res on low size.
 

jiffylube1024

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
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Originally posted by: xtknight
Originally posted by: jiffylube1024
Most people don't run their CRT's at pin-prick sharp resolutions (< .258mm). Very rarely have I heard of people running a 19" CRT at higher than 1280X1024 (90% of 19" CRT's look like crap above 1024 or 11xx), and most people with 20" or 21" screens just do 1600X1200.

If you need ultra fine resolution, then sure, run your 20" or 21" CRT at 19xx by 14xx, but that is not what the market does.

Also, dot pitch hardly dictates sharpness in LCD's. I'd argue a 17"/20"/24" LCD has much sharper text than all but the most expensive (professional) CRT's .

Besides, you wouldn't be able to see a damn thing at 19x14 on a 19". Unless you enjoy squinting, the LCDs are not giving you anything less really. The reason isn't because the LCDs are technically incapable, it's becuase the companies figure there is no market at all for high res on low size.


Yup, and I agree with them too. I think 1680X1050 on my 2005fpw is a perfect match - I wouldn't want any smaller pixels .
 

Dainas

Senior member
Aug 5, 2005
299
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Originally posted by: xtknight
Originally posted by: jiffylube1024
Most people don't run their CRT's at pin-prick sharp resolutions (< .258mm). Very rarely have I heard of people running a 19" CRT at higher than 1280X1024 (90% of 19" CRT's look like crap above 1024 or 11xx), and most people with 20" or 21" screens just do 1600X1200.

If you need ultra fine resolution, then sure, run your 20" or 21" CRT at 19xx by 14xx, but that is not what the market does.

Also, dot pitch hardly dictates sharpness in LCD's. I'd argue a 17"/20"/24" LCD has much sharper text than all but the most expensive (professional) CRT's .

Besides, you wouldn't be able to see a damn thing at 19x14 on a 19". Unless you enjoy squinting, the LCDs are not giving you anything less really. The reason isn't because the LCDs are technically incapable, it's becuase the companies figure there is no market at all for high res on low size.



Yeah I dont like 19x14 ether its a bit much for a 19inch, But 16x12 75hz is pretty nice. I dont mind LCDs unless its used for gaming and anyone with a 78000GTX (the thread started) is going to want to play in 16x12. An x800pro will play almost anything smoothly in eye candy mode at 12x10. Oh and a good 19inch CRT will keep flawless sharpness at 16x12 at 75hz, I know for a fact mine does.
 

imported_g33k

Senior member
Aug 17, 2004
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CRT is better for gaming because of scalable resolutions. Unfortunatley high end ones are hard to find. Paired with a 7800gtx, I would stay clear of a 19" lcd monitor. If you want your video card to stretch its legs with higher resolutions get a 21" or wide screen lcd. For CRT you can pick up a 19" or higher. Good 19" crt monitors can do up to 1920x1440 resolution. 21" CRT's and higher are great screens, but they weight a ton and take up an enourmous footprint on a desk.
 

Markbnj

Elite Member <br>Moderator Emeritus
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Sep 16, 2005
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[Most people don't run their CRT's at pin-prick sharp resolutions (< .258mm). ]

It's not something you can choose to run at . Finer dot pitches give you richer, more saturated colors. The pixel size you scan at has a lot more to do with how sharp the image looks, which I think was your point. Dot pitch is something else.

I just traded in a very good NEC 19" CRT for a 2405fpw, and I am not at all unhappy about it. I do tend to agree that CRTs are faster, smoother, and sharper. Its kind of like arguing that reel-to-reel tape drives give the best musical reproduction. It's true, but all the other factors outweigh that. My 2405 runs cool, takes up a lot less space, is perfectly flat, has perfect geometry (anyone who is a CRT afficianado knows the angst of waiting to see one that you bought sight unseen run for the first time; then you look anxiously at the corners and the image boundaries along the edges, hoping they will be square), is very bright with sharp text and rich, full colors. It is good enough in gaming that what flaws it has in no way overpower the advantages.
 

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
22,709
2,997
126
CRT definitely - better colours, better refresh rates, the ability to run at whatever resolution you please and no ghosting.
 

jotosuds

Banned
Sep 1, 2005
174
0
0
i bought a dell 21" CRT on ebay, picking it up tomorrow. only $120. CRT's are cheap man... to get 20" viewable on a LCD is like really expensive. plus scalable res, and no ghosting, color etc... great for gaming.
 

JRW

Senior member
Jun 29, 2005
569
0
76
Definately CRT , I recently bought a 24" Sony FW900 Widescreen CRT from Ebay and it destroys my 2001FP LCD as a gaming monitor and simply has amazing picture quality, it's also nice having TRUE black levels again wich was a major anoyance with my 2001FP.

The seller I bought from has sold many of these all with positive feedback and still has some available , At $400 its a great price especially considering they used to retail for $2,300.
 

niggles

Senior member
Jan 10, 2002
797
0
0
Wow, I love my LCD, it blows my old CRT out of the water for colour and image.

I would say the rule is that you look at reviews that measure response times rather than manufacturers specs. 16ms is supposed to be the slowest you should allow for in the gaming area. the maker of my LCD says it's 8 ms, it's actually 12ms. It's the best thing on the planet.... it's a sexy beast.
As the first post on this thread after the originator said, you have to make your own mind up. I'm completely sold on my LCD.
 
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