LCDs images delayed compared to CRTs ? Yes !

[Ateo]

This article could be an eyeopener for some folks:

LCDs images delayed compared to CRTs ? Yes !

In the end, if the optimum solution is chosen, we will have one Razer Copperhead mouse, one graphic card with V Sync OFF and one CRT. The delay will be 1ms + 0.5 images (with a frequency at 100 Hz, it will be 1/100/2= 5ms) + 0 = 6 ms. Less than one image of delay, which shouldn´t be perceptible.

Hence why I run a CRT with mouse via PS/2

Standard solution: a good USB 1 mouse (all Microsoft´s, most of Logitech´s, the cheap razer) + V Sync ON + average LCD, type Dell 2407WFP monitor. The delay is now 8 ms + 2 images (LCD = 60 Hz, or 33 ms) + 24 ms = 65 ms. Almost 4 images late!

Now we enter the laggy world of LCD's and V-sync

Unrecommended solution: slow mouse + Triple Buffering + slow monitor (Acer AL2032W). 16 ms + 3 images (3 x 16.7 = 50 ms) + 44 ms (the longest delay measured with the Acer monitor) = 110 ms, or 6.5 images late!!!

And this is awfull...
LCD, Triple buffering, USB mouse ect. all giving a delay of 110 ms, compared to the 6 ms delay on CRT's

That is why you will hear a large scream from me on the day I can no longer get my CRT-Luuuurv :shocked:

 

[TheRyuu]

Thank you for this wonderful information.

And thank you Mr. Obvious.

Date on article: Published on August 3, 2006

We've know this forever anyway.

 

[Ichigo]

This isn't new information.

Have fun sticking to old technology. Not all of us live for FPS games, you realize.

 

[Ateo]

Originally posted by: wizboy11
Thank you for this wonderful information.

And thank you Mr. Obvious.

Date on article: Published on August 3, 2006

We've know this forever anyway.

Spot the paradox.

 

[Ateo]

Originally posted by: Ichigo
This isn't new information.

Have fun sticking to old technology. Not all of us live for FPS games, you realize.

CRT's are better for gaming(aliasing/lag) and video(color/contrast/brightness) so don't dismiss "old" technology that still have superior preformance in key areas.

 

[kylebisme]

I didn't read the article, just the quotes, but I'm curious to know if the author explains how he comes up with his '+ 0.5 images' for no vsync, '+ 2 images' for vsync and '+ 3 images' for vsync with triple buffering nonsense? It is always funny to see the faulty logic that fosters such ignorant arguments.

 

[SlowSpyder]

CRT's may be superior in a lot of ways, but now that I have a widescreen LCD there is no way I can ever go back to a CRT. I wonder if people who rode horses yapped about the advantages of the horse over the horse-less carriage as well?

 

[imported_Seer]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
I didn't read the article, just the quotes, but I'm curious to know if the author explains how he comes up with his '+ 0.5 images' for no vsync, '+ 2 images' for vsync and '+ 3 images' for vsync with triple buffering nonsense? It is always funny to see the faulty logic that fosters such ignorant arguments.

Wow, just wow.

 

[InFeXiOn]

Originally posted by: Ateo

Originally posted by: wizboy11
Thank you for this wonderful information.

And thank you Mr. Obvious.

Date on article: Published on August 3, 2006

We've know this forever anyway.

Spot the paradox.

Did anyone else get a huge laugh out of that, like I did? Haha. Made randomly browsing here out of boredom so worth it.

And thanks to Captain Obvious for striking to help the autistic kids. Kudos to you, sir.

 

[KeithTalent]

Some will always prefer CRTs over LCDs just as some people will always prefer:

Blu-Ray over HD-DVD
Pepsi over Coke
Dominos over Pizza Hut (ugh)
DLP over LCD over Plasma
Picard over Shatner
Wendy's over McDonalds over BK
AMDTI over Nvidia *shifty eyes*

the list could go on forever.

So there will always be threads like these in Video and elsewhere. I for one, enjoy watching people go at each others throats over personal preference. There is something ridiculously satisfying about watching people debate personal opinion.

KT

 

[Mem]

Yep widescreen LCDs rule for gaming.

 

[PingSpike]

I wish they made a widescreen AG CRT. Thats what I want.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: Seer

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
I didn't read the article, just the quotes, but I'm curious to know if the author explains how he comes up with his '+ 0.5 images' for no vsync, '+ 2 images' for vsync and '+ 3 images' for vsync with triple buffering nonsense? It is always funny to see the faulty logic that fosters such ignorant arguments.

Wow, just wow.

What is so "wow" about that? When you find quotes from an artilce spewing stupidity, do you find yourself compelled to click the link to read on? Personally, I generally have better things to do with my time.

 

[Ichigo]

Originally posted by: Ateo

Originally posted by: Ichigo
This isn't new information.

Have fun sticking to old technology. Not all of us live for FPS games, you realize.

CRT's are better for gaming(aliasing/lag) and video(color/contrast/brightness) so don't dismiss "old" technology that still have superior preformance in key areas.

Feel like proving the latter?

 

[WaTaGuMp]

I am selling my WS LCD now that I have be enlightended.

 

[IlllI]

in other news, humans need oxygen to live

:roll:

 

[dug777]

Originally posted by: PingSpike
I wish they made a widescreen AG CRT. Thats what I want.

What about the 24" WS Sony CRT?

 

[WaTaGuMp]

In other news a voodoo3 vid card beat out my 8800GTX so I will be getting rid of that next, sorry I cant find the link for it tho.

 

[JRW]

Originally posted by: PingSpike
I wish they made a widescreen AG CRT. Thats what I want.

They did for awhile (Sony 24" FW900 which is of course AG) You can find them on ebay and various online stores, more info here: Link

Originally posted by: SlowSpyder
CRT's may be superior in a lot of ways, but now that I have a widescreen LCD there is no way I can ever go back to a CRT. I wonder if people who rode horses yapped about the advantages of the horse over the horse-less carriage as well?

You say that as if Widescreen PC CRTs dont exist ..Anyhow just thought I'd contribute my CRT vs. LCD lag results, Im using a FW900 CRT and NEC 20WMGX2 , I took at least 20 pictures and the average lag I saw was around 12ms ,it varied with each picture I took , worst case was 32ms and best was 0ms (perfect sync). You can view the pics here (CRT is on the left / LCD right): Link

 

[almach1]

will that really make a difference. But since i assume 90 perecent of the people gaming are using an LCD, the lag should cancell each other out.

 

[brianmanahan]

The lag is not noticeable on a Acer 22" widescreen LCD. It is nowhere near the ridiculous 110ms that you say. But if you want to stick with your huge CRT, by all means go ahead. It will also act as a mini-furnace and a weight for lifting, so it will provide a variety of functions in addition to presenting high speeds, good color, muddy text, and numerous electromagnetic emissions.

 

[CP5670]

It's a pity that the useful information in here is shrouded by all the crap. :roll: The input lag issue on large LCDs (especially in the 23/24" range) has been well documented, but it doesn't affect smaller LCDs to quite the same degree. I can see a slight lag with triple buffering too, but it's usually preferable to the alternatives, either tearing or wild framerate swings. It depends on the game though.

There are some excellent used CRTs still available at bargain prices, but they're too much of a lottery at this point (in terms of defects) for me to recommend them to anyone. Although I'll be sticking with mine for quite some time, especially with SED and OLED nowhere in sight.

 

[Captante]

Having just made the switch from a 21 inch NEC Diamondtron CRT to a BenQ FP241W 24 inch LCD I'd say that while the gaming performance difference is very measurable in benchmarks its effect on the actual gaming experience is greatly exaggerated & input lag is virtually none-existant based on back-to-back comparisions with my CRT which sits next to it on the same desk.

 

[Mem]

I have a 21"CRT and 20" WS LCD,I do prefer the LCD overall,colours are great on my 8 bit display and using DVI mode the sharpness is way better then any CRT,as to lag in the REAL WORLD,I don't see any in online games like TFC(dustbowl map)etc ...so that is a no issue period.

Bottom line I think people forget that LCDs have come a long way from the old 25ms response times etc few years back,and now a lot of people use them for gaming.

If CRTS are so great,why have virutally every major manufacturer stopped making them.

 

[CP5670]

using DVI mode the sharpness is way better then any CRT

It's not any better than mine.

If CRTS are so great,why have virutally every major manufacturer stopped making them.

The reality is that 99% of consumers are not all that concerned about image/motion quality issues. Price and ergonomics matter more and there is no denying that LCDs look more elegant. To add to that, CRT quality control and shipping is also more expensive. So we have a situation where the demand for LCDs is greater and each one is more profitable, but for reasons unrelated to the actual image quality.

Even among LCDs, low end TN displays are far more common than VA or IPS models, since they're significantly cheaper and most people couldn't care less about the IQ differences. The manufacturers are starting to realize this and we're seeing more TNs (especially in the larger sizes) and fewer IPSs coming out these days. That doesn't mean TNs are superior to IPSs.