Leader of the Free World

[Jaskalas]

I felt this deserves its own topic.

In Trump's first foreign adventure our Allies got to meet our President and hear how he differs.... In return their press appears eager to cast shadows over the whole affair. From Merkel speaking up a stronger, more determined, Europe to Macron describing how petty Trump's quirky handshake is. There's a culture of personality lashing out, and whether the leaders participate or not the media is driving a narrative of shaky alliances. They want you to believe America's position in the world is at stake. Is it?

So beyond arguing over Trump's transgressions, which I am sure we can do... what does it mean to be the Leader of the Free World, and how is that put at risk? Does it mean we compensate Europe's minor defense spending by "protecting" them with our own? Does it mean we keep and maintain military bases across the world to enable our "global reach"? Does it mean we take up a leadership position and drag other nations around by the nose? That we determine interventions in other nation's affairs?

What does it all mean, how does it ultimately benefit or harm us? Is it our power play at world domination?
How much of this should we actually be doing?

Asking for your thoughts on recent events and what it means for America to be "Leader of the Free World".


Markel: Europe can't rely on US
German leader says Europeans must take their fate into their own hands

Macron says Donald Trump is like Presidents of Russia and Turkey
He told French newspaper Le Journal du Dimanche: “Donald Trump, the Turkish president or the Russian president see relationships in terms of a balance of power.

People love Angela Merkel's face after she said Germany could no longer count on America as an ally

 

[feralkid]

We have a President who is unfit for the job, plain and simple.

Blame the media all you like; this simple fact remains.

Elections have consequences; we are now reaping the whirlwind.

.

 

[Indus]

We're not free. We were never free. We're prisoners to an electoral college and gerrymandering system that rigs the system and the majority gets ignored and reamed repeatedly.

If anything the leader of the free world is where free elections are actually fair and matter and that is not anywhere in America.

 

[Yakk]

A leader can be defined by the friends (and world leaders) they keep, and those they don't.

Interesting friends this new president is making, and throwing the old ones out.

 

[ivwshane]

I remember when posters here would say how Obama made America look weak and how foreign leaders were laughing at him/us. They said this without any evidence, of course.

Now we have actual evidence of exactly that under a trump presidency and not a peep from those same posters.

You can ignore the American media and the narrative around the world would not change: America is no longer an ally you can rely on.

That's pretty alarming!

 

[Indus]

I remember when posters here would say how Obama made America look weak and how foreign leaders were laughing at him/us. They said this without any evidence, of course.

Now we have actual evidence of exactly that under a trump presidency and not a peep from those same posters.

You can ignore the American media and the narrative around the world would not change: America is no longer an ally you can rely on.

That's pretty alarming!

Trump is exactly what they accused Obama of.

 

[WHAMPOM]

1909 all over again! Cm'on read some American history. We can learn and not let a corrupt President sit in office for four years.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Why should we care?

We're becoming great again, deal with it.

 

[WHAMPOM]

Trump is exactly what they accused Obama of.

Nigerian communist terrorist Muslim? And Black can't forget that! Don't see no mention of Russian mob puppet President.

edit: Whose money did trump's casinos launder? Did a Ten Million Dollar fine add up as pennies on the dollar?

 

[Paratus]

As I said in another thread, conservatives have no interest or capability to lead anymore.


The current "strategy" by the administration appears to be curry favor with historical competitors to force our nominal allies to give us a better deal.

Maybe that works in business, but countries aren't businesses.

 

[Grooveriding]

It's not true anymore. I think fundamentally it's about values, those values are barren in the Trump regime. It's also a hypocritical position because a lot of actions do not represent the lack of value in being a world leader. Why still increase the military spending? The logical approach if you want to become an island is slash military spending hugely, close worldwide bases, but none of that has happened. All that money could be used to put 'America first'.

It really looks like it's just jingoism with Trump. He panders to the military sympathy, pretends to be religious and panders to evangelicals, America first etc. Trump does not really have any positions of substance from a position of conviction. Everything is pandering and a marketing campaign to the gullible and easily influenced. Looking at his actual actions, his real position is making the uber rich even richer and everything else is red meat for the rubes.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I have a theory about Trump's election and his most ardent supporters.

First, once some people vote for someone and he wins, they assume that they were "right" -- because . . . . they won.

Second, there is an underlying psychology at work, or so I suspect. Obama couldn't be "a great leader" because he was black. Since his supporters would assume that the rest of the world thinks as they do, they also conclude that the rest of the world would not give respect to Obama. In fact, the only place I heard such a thing was from Putin, with his remark about Obama: "He has a nice suntan."

Whatever you call Trump -- and I have a big vocabulary of appropriate words -- he's not demonstrating "leadership." He gave a college commencement speech -- something that is supposed to inspire graduates. But instead of inspiration, he whines about being the most persecuted president in history.

From a scientific and not a legal view of events, people, facts, artifacts and other information, I conclude that he's an Arch-Traitor.

I've always felt a bit unnerved for being fortunate enough to have been born in the USA. Everybody is looking at us; our politicians and other nations want to play "king of the mountain." When you display your hubris explicitly with such a fixed objective, someone is going to try to knock you off the pile.

There is also what I call the "Great Roman Empire Paradigm" and myth. Politicians have obliquely, but not deliberately referred to it. For instance, Johnson had been portrayed with these words: "The Ancient Romans built bridges and aquaducts and roads. Now, the Russians want to land on the moon so they can drop bombs on us." Current-day Neo-Nazis and White Supremacists use it in their patter-palaver.

And in the midst of it all, fate has dumped this disgusting filth in the Oval Office, who might resemble Commodus, Caligula or Nero. You can be sure that he -- in his supreme magnificence and wisdom -- is a sucker for the "GREP." And that's no Unix, either.

 

[JSt0rm]

Millions will die because of trumps inability to resolve issues around the world in a normal way. Don't rock the boat comes to mind. The rural folk are too stupid and have made their own facts and history and. Ow they will watch parts of the world burn for their amusement. It will mean that trump is strong and decisive. Not weak like obummer berry.

 

[yllus]

I think that as an outsider who's still quite familiar with the United States I can try to illustrate the problem.

Without it being meant as an insult - you folks elected an idiot to your highest office, one that controls nuclear arms and the world's largest and most capable military. That means that the rest of the world now has to evaluate:

• Is this the start of a trend; will we see more unstable / ignorant leaders from the U.S.?
• Is the U.S. turning inwards and thus shouldn't be relied upon for important things like security treaties and trade?
• Is this a sign that the U.S. is losing its prowess, and thus we should turn elsewhere if we seek strength?

They're entirely valid questions that everyone - that includes Canada, as I've seen numerous mention of starting better ties with the EU and even China - is asking.

 

[brandonbull]

1909 all over again! Cm'on read some American history. We can learn and not let a corrupt President sit in office for four years.

I know but unfortunately we sat through 8.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

I know but unfortunately we sat through 8.

Sheesh give it a rest. Bush has been gone for years. Get over it.

 

[kage69]

It's hard to disagree with Markel and Germany over this, thanks to Trump.

One more complete fuckup we can thank easily amused republicans for.

 

[Jaskalas]

Merkel calls for Europe to stand up, to be strong. Not dependent on us. Do we want a continent twice our population to be our dependents? Do we currently dominate Europe? I'd like it if someone could explain what it is that we are losing here.

I'm picturing "big" America dragging "little" Europe around by the nose, and maybe that comes to an end. Is that a bad thing?

 

[Genx87]

I agree with Merkel. Europeans need to take their fate into their own hands.

 

[alien42]

I'd like it if someone could explain what it is that we are losing here.

global influence, power, and control.

 

[Grooveriding]

Are you interpreting their position as one of dependence, like a child on an adult ? There is the side of allies who share common values. And as the current US regime no longer represents those shared values, a parting of shared alliances.

All these alliances were fostered during WW2 in the fight against fascism, dictatorship, genocide and the darkest side of human nature. If you are seeing the rest of your allies parting ways, but maintaining their alliances, merely turning from one member who has abandoned those values. Maybe the question should be what is it that changed that we are no longer members of this coalition of shared values.

Joining the ranks of Russia, Turkey, Saudi Arabia; dictatorships with no legitimate democracy or rule of law is the way forward ? Well if that is what is wanted, I guess the rest of us will go forward under that new reality. I think all the democratic developed nations that value liberty and freedom are the lights keeping that old WW2 darkness at bay, and they operate in alignment. If the light is turning off in the US, so be it. I don't personally like the idea of it because it looks to me as the pathway to going down the road of Germany in the 30s with a similar ability to strike out if/when it all goes to hell.

Trade and economic issues are one thing, even there the truth is being ignored that technology is pushing out unskilled workers, not other nation's policies. But those shared values of freedom are something unrelated. Trump is turning away from those and taking his country along with him. He pays the ideals of freedom, liberty and democracy lip service, his actions are those of a dictator like Putin.

This could also be the start of a much more alarming chapter. Europe could see the need to accelerate nuclear proliferation and increase their weapons. It would seem wise as they have minimal stockpiles, but the ability to manufacture more ICBMs if they choose to. They may see the need with Russia on their doorstep now allied with the US and those thousands of warheads available to them.

 

[HomerJS]

Merkel calls for Europe to stand up, to be strong. Not dependent on us. Do we want a continent twice our population to be our dependents? Do we currently dominate Europe? I'd like it if someone could explain what it is that we are losing here.

I'm picturing "big" America dragging "little" Europe around by the nose, and maybe that comes to an end. Is that a bad thing?

Wow! You found a way to justify Trump being a good thing. That's a 2 1/2 with a twist. DD 5.0

Br proud!

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I think that as an outsider who's still quite familiar with the United States I can try to illustrate the problem.

Without it being meant as an insult - you folks elected an idiot to your highest office, one that controls nuclear arms and the world's largest and most capable military. That means that the rest of the world now has to evaluate:

• Is this the start of a trend; will we see more unstable / ignorant leaders from the U.S.?
• Is the U.S. turning inwards and thus shouldn't be relied upon for important things like security treaties and trade?
• Is this a sign that the U.S. is losing its prowess, and thus we should turn elsewhere if we seek strength?

They're entirely valid questions that everyone - that includes Canada, as I've seen numerous mention of starting better ties with the EU and even China - is asking.

I wouldn't be worried about insults. Here's an insult, deliberately intended for the lemming dupes who elected the Anti-Christ to the White House. I want to say how proud I am -- to say that I'm ashamed -- of my country and its ignorant, destructive choice to occupy the highest office in the land. And I want to say this to friends in Canada, in Poland, Australia, New Zealand -- in any country or e-mail communication that gives me an airing. It is my way of coughing up a big ol' COPD wad of goo, and spitting it hard in the face of our "Red-state" brethren who voted for this Traitor-in-Chief.

The GOP had what seems like ten different candidates. Those of us who also voted against the GOP have seen chief executives of both parties come and go. We accepted the other party's winning candidate. And this time, any or several of the candidates competing with Trump in the GOP primary would've been acceptable in the uneasy bargain that occurs in an election.

But we're not going along for the ride with this one. Putin won. He proved that democratic elections are infected by fools who can choose the lowest common denominator from the underbelly of the human character.

 

[Jaskalas]

global influence, power, and control.

No context or explanation for what that actually means.

Influence, power and control... over Europe? For what purpose, to what end? Are there examples of our power over them being put to good use?

 

[WelshBloke]

No context or explanation for what that actually means.

Influence, power and control... over Europe? For what purpose, to what end? Are there examples of our power over them being put to good use?

You can't work out why allies need to trust each other?