LeadTek GeForce4 Ti4400 FRIED -- Suggestions?

[Woz]

Seriously, come one, he never even got the damn thing to boot up. It could very well be a defective board. It shouldn't fry before it could even POST because of one fan.

 

[Plester]

lots of of critics around here today.

if the man is telling the truth - that all he did was unplug one fan - and after unplugging that fan it would no longer boot, then he had a damn touchy card. while the core may run hot, it isn't an over-clocked t-bird, and it certainly won't burn up in seconds. i'll wager you could run that card with one fan for years without a problem.

i would go through all the usaul trouble shooting steps again, pull all cards but the vid card (re-seat it WELL) and try again, but i would guess that if the card croaked it was because of rough handling/static discharge/etc, not from the tremendous heat generated by the boot process.

 

[Mem]

Removing the fan may have cause the problem then again you can`t be sure,I would just RMA the card back for a replacement,in the future I would recommend you don`t remove the fan .

 

[Instagib]

stop the flames its gettin hot in here

 

[Metalloid]

What I would like to know is why after BMW already stated that he IS going to tell Leadtek that he unplugged the fan, everyone still jumps all over him calling him dishonest. Seriously, I would love to see one of you jerks have something brake that may or may not be your fault, and then have everyone calling you dishonest when you even bring up the slightest idea of RMA'ing it. If you are positive that it is dead, then I would send the card to Leadtek and ask them to analyze the failure. If it was caused by heat then you should buy a new one. If it was caused by anything else than they need to replace it.

Also, if Leadtek designed a card that needs two fans instead of one to run, then they are probably overclocking chips and selling them as higher clocked than they should be. The whole design of the card was so that users could overclock more than other cards could due to the giant heatsink. Its the same deal with ramsinks. Many Geforce4 cards have no ramsinks, but the Leadtek does. So if you were to take the ramsinks of the RAM on the Leadtek card will they fry?

 

[BMW330ci]

I appreciate the helpful insight from some of you.

 

[Bozo Galora]

just run it over with your BMW and tell em UPS did it.

 

[Metalloid]

<< I appreciate the helpful insight from some of you. >>



Your welcome. I just hate when someone has a problem and all anyone else can talk about is how they shouldnt have gotten into that situation in the first place.



<< just run it over with your BMW and tell em UPS did it. >>



Now just becuase he has BMW in his name doesnt mean that he drives one. But even if he does, you arent helping the situation very much.

 

[HowDoesItWork]

"I know what being dishonest is and I intend to be completely honest. If they RMA it, good. If they don't RMA it, then fine. "

Cool, that is all I am saying. I thought my post was polite (I was trying to be anyway), I did not mean to jump on your case. You comment "LOL..well I'm going to RMA it back to Essential Computers. " just sounded to me like you were going to simply RMA it.



"What I would like to know is why after BMW already stated that he IS going to tell Leadtek that he unplugged the fan, everyone still jumps all over him calling him dishonest."

If you read back through the comments, he didn't say he was going to tell Leadtek he had unplugged the fan until people had jumped on his case. His comment was "LOL..well I'm going to RMA it.." Which was misunderstood by me (and others) as saying he was going to pull a 'switcheroo' or a fast one.


"Seriously, I would love to see one of you jerks have something brake that may or may not be your fault, and then have everyone calling you dishonest when you even bring up the slightest idea of RMA'ing it."

That is EXACTLY the point! So many people are dishonest with returns and RMA that they subject EVERYONE to the third degree. And those of us who are honest have to suffer for the actions of the lying jerks out there. If everyone was honest, there wouldn't even be RMA. You would just call up the company and they would send out a new part to you, no questions asked. (well maybe they would want the bad part back to look at and improve their product, but you get the idea.)

"The whole design of the card was so that users could overclock more than other cards could due to the giant heatsink."

Maybe, I think it is just to make the card look cool. I would bet (not much since I haven't read) that the user's manual either tells you not to overclock or that overclocking can result in damage that is not covered by the manufacturer. My MSI MOBO manual says something to that effect in bold text all over the place.


"Many Geforce4 cards have no ramsinks, but the Leadtek does. So if you were to take the ramsinks of the RAM on the Leadtek card will they fry?"

Logically, no. But I will again guess that the mfg and probably the user manual does not authorize ANY modification to the card. To turn the question around, if you stripped off the ramsinks and the card stopped working, would you expect Leadtek to RMA the card?

 

[NesuD]

<< The Athlons must be fragile too, after all if you unplug the fan it burns up in 3 seconds. Must be a product defect or something. >>


Wrong!! Athlons burn up in 3 seconds if the die surface loses contact with the heatsink as in firing it with no heatsink on it. An athlon will take several minutes before it overheats with a decent heatsink correctly installed. Simply unplugging a fan does not instantly kill an Athlon. I have personally ran My tbird for 7 or 8 minutes with the fan unplugged. Sure it started getting pretty warm but it didn't burn up or even become unstable. Poor or no heatsink contact with the top surface of the die is the only cause of instant burnouts on the Athlon.

 

[GrumpyMan]

<<

<< The Athlons must be fragile too, after all if you unplug the fan it burns up in 3 seconds. Must be a product defect or something. >>

Wrong!! Athlons burn up in 3 seconds if the die surface loses contact with the heatsink as in firing it with no heatsink on it. An athlon will take several minutes before it overheats with a decent heatsink correctly installed. Simply unplugging a fan does not instantly kill an Athlon. I have personally ran My tbird for 7 or 8 minutes with the fan unplugged. Sure it started getting pretty warm but it didn't burn up or even become unstable. Poor or no heatsink contact with the top surface of the die is the only cause of instant burnouts on the Athlon. >>



You are correct, I was just trying to make a point.

 

[xylem]

In response to your original question: if you got nothing on your screen the first time you had unplugged the fan, and the card was in fact dead at that point, there had been little time for heat sufficient to fry something on the card to build up (we're talking a few seconds here), especially since the other fan was still operating. Although this is a hot gpu, there was a heatsink with some cooling, and it can't really be compared to a bare Athlon core. If I understand your situation correctly, I suspect that it was something else, unless you physically damaged the card when you pulled out the fan power plug or damaged it during repeated installation (which is seldom an issue).

 

[Insidious]

I noticed you mentioned you were pulling HD cables during the boot process... If I understand you right

the computer was turned on? That's always risky. By any chance did you pull the video card while it was on?

That might have led to this kind of problem. (good rule of thumb is never connect or disconnect anything, except USB while energized)

I doubt it was a heating failure if the card never made it through a boot. (That'd be one FAST failure for only reduced air circulation!)

Yes I know this is repeating the last post but it deserves re-iteration.

I hope you do get a new card from them because I think you experienced an infant failure totally unrelated to the fan.

For the future, I recommend always getting new hardware (or software) stable as per manufacturer instructions before tweaking.

 

[BMW330ci]

<< In response to your original question: if you got nothing on your screen the first time you had unplugged the fan, and the card was in fact dead at that point, there had been little time for heat sufficient to fry something on the card to build up (we're talking a few seconds here), especially since the other fan was still operating. Although this is a hot gpu, there was a heatsink with some cooling, and it can't really be compared to a bare Athlon core. If I understand your situation correctly, I suspect that it was something else, unless you physically damaged the card when you pulled out the fan power plug or damaged it during repeated installation (which is seldom an issue). >>



I had my doubts that only having one of the two fans would fry the card and I considered it only a possibility--thank you for answering the original question to confirm this. You're correct, I shut it off during the boot sequence after noticing it not recognizing my hard drive.
Insidious: The computer was shut off when I dis/re-connected the IDE cables for the hard drive and when I unplugged one of the fans on the cable however I don't recall the power cable on the power supply was unplugged. This is another possiblity that might have caused it to malfunction. I have built many PCs with NVIDIA based videocards dating back to the TNT2 issue with certain motherboards not supplying enough power to the AGP port, and this is my first encounter with an Nvidia card (GeForce 4 for that matter) that has malfunctioned. My handling of this card some way or another may be a partial or complete factor for the damage, or it may have just been extremely fragile and disconnecting the fan just provoked it more to fail. Either way, I'm going to explain this case with LeadTek and let them determine how they can rectify, help or possibly even void my warranty.

 

[BMW330ci]

<< "I know what being dishonest is and I intend to be completely honest. If they RMA it, good. If they don't RMA it, then fine. "

Cool, that is all I am saying. I thought my post was polite (I was trying to be anyway), I did not mean to jump on your case. You comment "LOL..well I'm going to RMA it back to Essential Computers. " just sounded to me like you were going to simply RMA it.



"What I would like to know is why after BMW already stated that he IS going to tell Leadtek that he unplugged the fan, everyone still jumps all over him calling him dishonest."

If you read back through the comments, he didn't say he was going to tell Leadtek he had unplugged the fan until people had jumped on his case. His comment was "LOL..well I'm going to RMA it.." Which was misunderstood by me (and others) as saying he was going to pull a 'switcheroo' or a fast one.


"Seriously, I would love to see one of you jerks have something brake that may or may not be your fault, and then have everyone calling you dishonest when you even bring up the slightest idea of RMA'ing it."

That is EXACTLY the point! So many people are dishonest with returns and RMA that they subject EVERYONE to the third degree. And those of us who are honest have to suffer for the actions of the lying jerks out there. If everyone was honest, there wouldn't even be RMA. You would just call up the company and they would send out a new part to you, no questions asked. (well maybe they would want the bad part back to look at and improve their product, but you get the idea.)

"The whole design of the card was so that users could overclock more than other cards could due to the giant heatsink."

Maybe, I think it is just to make the card look cool. I would bet (not much since I haven't read) that the user's manual either tells you not to overclock or that overclocking can result in damage that is not covered by the manufacturer. My MSI MOBO manual says something to that effect in bold text all over the place.


"Many Geforce4 cards have no ramsinks, but the Leadtek does. So if you were to take the ramsinks of the RAM on the Leadtek card will they fry?"

Logically, no. But I will again guess that the mfg and probably the user manual does not authorize ANY modification to the card. To turn the question around, if you stripped off the ramsinks and the card stopped working, would you expect Leadtek to RMA the card? >>




Whether I needed elaboration about my statement about RMAing the card or just simply stating I'm going to RMA the card doesn't necessary mean I'm going to commit any un-ethical actions. "LOL" was in response to the people who wondered why I wasn't angry.
I can proudly say, I'm honest in all aspects: business, life, and among friends and colleagues who know me well. Maybe I could have reiterated it differently but some jumped the case (you know who you are) immediately blamed it was my fault entirely with non-subjective and irrational comments with negative context that followed. In any case, it's besides the point from the original question/problem.

If everyone was honest, there wouldn't even be RMA? That's not necessarily true. Being honest (sometimes) has nothing to do whether RMA does or does not exist. RMA is an assurance for the consumer to purchase from a retailers knowing their product is free from defect and that they're satisfied with the product after the sale. RMA is going to exist for satisfaction, non-satisfaction, defective and non-defective purposes. It can even possibly encourage confidence with the retailer they're about to purchase and it doesn't necessarily requires the consumer to be honest. Of course, different retailers have different terms for returns.

 

[Yourself]

BMW-

Did you unplug the fan cooling the core or the memory?


Self

 

[Acanthus]

the GPU of NVIDIA cards is NOT thermally protected. IE there is no thermal throttling or Vcut to stop the cards when they overheat, this can cause damage to the GPU if a fan fails (or is unplugged) because the card has no way of protecting itself from heat buildup, i ran a geforce 256 without a fan for a short time (less than 2 minutes) before completely destroying the card.

Unplugging the fan is a horribly bad idea. i suggest you dont try it on the replacement.

PS: please no more flames, we all know whats right and wrong.

 

[aznmist]

Last flame!



<< The 2 fans onboard implies for overclocking >>

yeah...

 

[GrumpyMan]

This is one of those threads that isn't going to die a peaceful death is it?

 

[BMW330ci]

<< Last flame!



<< The 2 fans onboard implies for overclocking >>

yeah...

>>



There are some post here that basically made the conclusion that disconnecting 1 of the 2 fans onboard SHOULDNT have overheated the card considering it was only started at the BIOS sequence. Do you know what this card looks like? Two fans with a huge heatsink. What other videocard has two freakin' fans on a huge heatsink simply for looks? Maybe the marketers know. Not to mention, all the Ti4400 are rated at the same clock/memory speeds.

Yeah..

 

[milkydoo]

There are 3 things I'd like to mention, one of which was touched on by someone else, that everyone should consider.

* Cooling is very important to keep components safe, but it is also a huge selling point. If manufacturers thought they could sell a few million more cards by slapping a 25 inch box fan on top of the card, they'd do it. So, it is plausible that Leadtek actually has more cooling than they really need.

* 2nd, manufacturers/distributors/retailers aren't stupid. They know the reality is that a percentage of the returns aren't legitimate. They also know that many people are scraping cash together for months to buy their upgrades, and accidentally damaging your equipment is more than just a little frustrating; bottom line, people will return the parts.

So, given this reality, the industry has this added cost built into the price, up front; it would be stupid not to. Like it or not, the cost is built in and always will be, so you may as well take advantage of it. Kind of like paying taxes for services that you'll never use.......until you do.

* 3rd (this was touched on a little), a company's return policy is designed for more than just handling defective products. It *is* a selling point. A company that will take any kind of return attracts a lot of customers, because they know they are safe no matter what. Many people are willing to spend more money on a product if the company has better return policy.

The bottom line: It's how the system works. You may not like it, but there it is. My opinion: Call them or email them anonymously and tell them the whole story, just to see what they say.

Either way, ship it back and tell 'em it's broke.........you already payed for it, you just didn't know it.

Btw, I used to work at Sears in the RMA dept. As you may know, Sears has long had a "Satisfaction Guaranteed" policy. If you gripe enough, you'll get what you want, even if they know it's pure BS. Yes, they lose some on customers that are pure sleezballs, but they attract a boat load of people that like the security the guarantee affords.

 

[jm0ris0n]

BMW- I feel bummed about the card. If you've tested it in multiple systems with the same result...then well its probably the card.

Although I have never personally used/seen a Geforce4 card I still feel confident I can say "WTF are all you saying this guy is a moron smokin"?

I mean really, ever since the winfast line (I only remember from the tnt2, but I'm sure they made cards before this) started it has always been about performance and userfriendly overclockability! Their cards have delivered performance and speed powerusers desire.

Oh and one more thing, if an Nvidia reference design gets away with basic, minimal cooling and a company strays from the reference design and adds a boat load of cooling and targets their product line toward the enthusiast crowd and even honors the cards warranty even when overclocked! I don't one fan without power and the other running + a sh^t load of heatsink is gonna do jack to this guys card. In fact I'd wager he could unplug both fans and remove the ram sinks and it would work fine.


BMW- you did not most likely fry your card by the sole act of unplugging a heatsink fan. Leadtek makes quality products, not some generic off-brand low-quality pos. If their card can't operate with as much (if not more) air flow as the nvidia reference design then this card does not belong in any mans/womans system. Call the place of purchase and tell them you need an RMA.

You are not being dishonest in any way, shape, form, or fashion. YOU ARE NOT DocSmarts . You got a pos card, not its time to give it back.

:|

 

[GMC]

Another factor that everybody seem to have overlooked is ESD. With all the fiddling in you case you could have easly picked enough static electricy to inadvertenly fry your card. It dosent take much, so little in fact that you'll never notice it. And unlike overheating, ESD (Electrostatic Discharge) can happen with the power off and is not noticeable. Take head and be well grounded. This goes for all computer componets. Another word of advice is to make sure you are handling your componets properly, grab from edges and avoid componets and traces. Also use the anti-static packageing to place cards on, you'll be safer that way. Your computer will thank you.

Also be aware that the new GeForce 4 cards are having bios problems with the Via 133 chipset.

GMC