Leadtek K7NCR18D PRO (nForce2) review!

[Mem]

Link .

 

[NicColt]

>we have the near-release version of Leadtek?s K7NCR18D PRO

Ok to be fair it's a pre-release but still..... nothing earth shattering compared to the KT333 they compared it to, it doesn't run away with anything. The real story here will be when Anandtech makes real world performance comparisons between NF2, KT333 and KT400A. In the end we'll see that it's just another normal board. To tell you the truth, I don't see what the fuss is all about. I'm no fan of SiS but I predict that the 746FX will beat all.

>SpecView crashed almost every time using a GF4 Ti4600. We didn?t face any such problem with the Radeon 9700 (Go figure!)

sweet.

 

[Mem]

SpecView crashed almost every time using a GF4 Ti4600. We didn?t face any such problem with the Radeon 9700 (Go figure!)

Lol...ironic I know, but as you said near release version and a BIOS update should solve that problem .

 

[mechBgon]

On the bright side, there's apparently not an issue with using three memory modules. And I don't know if it's KT333 or what, but my Ultra160 SCSI card/HDD can move over 120Mb/sec on nForce 220D, as opposed to 72Mb/sec on my A7V333-R (measured same-sector reads using Adaptec SCSIBench, 128kb block size).

Furthermore, when the onboard VIA USB 2.0 controller is enabled, the A7V333 cannot manage over 52Mb/sec, which is a crying shame considering that sustained throughput on the hard drive itself is 59Mb/sec. I reported the bug to VIA and Asus and not a peep from them in response, nor any revised drivers. :| I've toyed with PCI latency and everything else I could think of, but no joy. So maybe you can see why I'm interested in nForce2.

 

[Insane3D]

Originally posted by: mechBgon
On the bright side, there's apparently not an issue with using three memory modules. And I don't know if it's KT333 or what, but my Ultra160 SCSI card/HDD can move over 120Mb/sec on nForce 220D, as opposed to 72Mb/sec on my A7V333-R (measured same-sector reads using Adaptec SCSIBench, 128kb block size).

Furthermore, when the onboard VIA USB 2.0 controller is enabled, the A7V333 cannot manage over 52Mb/sec, which is a crying shame considering that sustained throughput on the hard drive itself is 59Mb/sec. I reported the bug to VIA and Asus and not a peep from them in response, nor any revised drivers. :| I've toyed with PCI latency and everything else I could think of, but no joy. So maybe you can see why I'm interested in nForce2.

mechBgon -

I think your issue is with the Asus A7V333-R. IIRC, that board has a separate USB 2.0 chip, it's not using the newest 8235 SB that has USB 2.0 support natively. As a result, that USB 2.0 controller sits on the PCI bus, and probably grabs more bandwidth than it needs. My guess is that it is directly related to the drivers for that Via USB 2.0 controller not using the PCI bus efficiently. On some of the newer boards, I would imagine the newest 8235 SB having its USB 2.0 ports mapped to the HS 8x V-Link connection, and not sitting on your PCI bus would improve the situation considerably. I also wonder how much the faster v-link connection might affect your SCSI performance..

 

[Insane3D]

I'm waiting for the Epox 8RDA+ myself...

 

[Mem]

I'm waiting for the Epox 8RDA+ myself

Yes Pete I know you want one ,Epox always seem to produce top quality boards and being it`s going to be their first nForce board should be something special I hope .

 

[mechBgon]

The one sour note with EPoX's two boards, in my eyes, is that they are apparently not making use of the nForce onboard audio, which is known for low CPU utilization and good sound. But they're still making me drool... Look at all the space around the CPU socket, Alpha could make a PAL9245 for that board! :Q

 

[mechBgon]

Originally posted by: Insane3D

Originally posted by: mechBgon
On the bright side, there's apparently not an issue with using three memory modules. And I don't know if it's KT333 or what, but my Ultra160 SCSI card/HDD can move over 120Mb/sec on nForce 220D, as opposed to 72Mb/sec on my A7V333-R (measured same-sector reads using Adaptec SCSIBench, 128kb block size).

Furthermore, when the onboard VIA USB 2.0 controller is enabled, the A7V333 cannot manage over 52Mb/sec, which is a crying shame considering that sustained throughput on the hard drive itself is 59Mb/sec. I reported the bug to VIA and Asus and not a peep from them in response, nor any revised drivers. :| I've toyed with PCI latency and everything else I could think of, but no joy. So maybe you can see why I'm interested in nForce2.

mechBgon -

I think your issue is with the Asus A7V333-R. IIRC, that board has a separate USB 2.0 chip, it's not using the newest 8235 SB that has USB 2.0 support natively. As a result, that USB 2.0 controller sits on the PCI bus, and probably grabs more bandwidth than it needs. My guess is that it is directly related to the drivers for that Via USB 2.0 controller not using the PCI bus efficiently. On some of the newer boards, I would imagine the newest 8235 SB having its USB 2.0 ports mapped to the HS 8x V-Link connection, and not sitting on your PCI bus would improve the situation considerably. I also wonder how much the faster v-link connection might affect your SCSI performance..

I think you're right, but even with the tacked-on USB 2.0 controller disabled, the Ultra160 card remains throughput-challeneged on that board (and I've tried disabling the remaining PCI stuff too, like FireWire and sound). As a result, I stuck with nF220D for that system, and use my A7V333-R at home with my IDE hard drive.

 

[Mem]

The one sour note with EPoX's two boards, in my eyes, is that they are apparently not making use of the nForce onboard audio, which is known for low CPU utilization and good sound.

mechBgon you`re right , there was a reply about that from Epox saying the same thing about 6 weeks ago,I was surprised they didn`t stay with the standard nForce sound,anyway what we need is to compare the Epox sound to other nForce 2 boards on both sound quality and CPU utilization ,big nForce2 roundup .

 

[Insane3D]

No, they are using the Nforce sound..from my understanding they still need a codec on board to utilize the sound. That link I gave was the Epox UK site since their USA site seems to have a terrible server. It won't work half the time, or it will be dog slow. According to the Epox USA site here, they say the board has "Nvidia SoundStorm Audio with Dolby Digital 5.1 Encoding".

I think even though the Nforce SB supports the 5.1 audio, it still needs a codec to work properly, similar to the onboard audio of the older Via SB's..

 

[mechBgon]

 

[CyNics]

It has an AGP lock, but no PCI lock???

 

[JSSheridan]

CyNics, I understand that the nForce2 boards have an independent clock from the FSB for PCI/AGP frequencies. That would mean that if the AGP or PCI speed is set, than the PCI or AGP is set also. All things being equal (performance, stability), that feature gives the nForce an advantage over other chipsets in overclockability, since it gives us more flexability than dividers. Peace.

 

[kgraeme]

Originally posted by: Insane3D
No, they are using the Nforce sound..from my understanding they still need a codec on board to utilize the sound. That link I gave was the Epox UK site since their USA site seems to have a terrible server. It won't work half the time, or it will be dog slow. According to the Epox USA site here, they say the board has "Nvidia SoundStorm Audio with Dolby Digital 5.1 Encoding".

I think even though the Nforce SB supports the 5.1 audio, it still needs a codec to work properly, similar to the onboard audio of the older Via SB's..

You're half right and Epox is wrong to call what they have "SoundStorm". The Southbridge is called the MCP. The MCP has the Audio Processing Unit (APU) which supports the advanced sound features. SoundStorm NVIDIA's ACR card with the codec engine and all the ports to take the most of the APU. The Epox board doesn't have an ACR slot, so can't possibly have SoundStorm. Instead, Epox has opted for the cheaper RealTek AC97 route which typically don't have the same number of output ports, instead doing port switching for different configurations, and while it the RealTek ALC650 supports S/PDIF, I don't think the Epox board will include this port. I don't know for sure though.

I personally don't feel the Epox board is the best implementation of nForce2 since it doesn't include the ACR option for the SoundStorm card. But the RealTek will make it cheaper for those who don't want the full feature set.

 

[WetWilly]

The Epox board doesn't have an ACR slot, so can't possibly have SoundStorm

No, it doesn't look like ACR is required for SoundStorm. nVidia's SoundStorm page doesn't even mention the ACR card. SoundStorm is only an enhanced spec meaning the board supports 6-channel analog out plus S/PDIF-out (meaning DD is supported) plus enhanced utilities. The ACR card was called SoundStorm since that was the only way certain nForce boards could get the necessary codecs necessary for 6-channel analog out since most nForce boards didn't have multiple codecs onboard. Note the SoundStorm ACR board came out before the release of the Realtek/ALC 650 codec, which makes the ACR card unnecessary if the system board mfg implements the audio ports properly.

Instead, Epox has opted for the cheaper RealTek AC97 route which typically don't have the same number of output ports, instead doing port switching for different configurations

Not necessarily true, either. It's possible to do a full SoundStorm implementation with the Realtek 650. Look at the Abit NV7-133R which uses the 650. Abit didn't port switch, but included a backplate with the rear, center/sub, and S/PDIF in and out ports. If Epox states the board has SoundStorm audio, they probably went the Abit route. If not, I'm sure somebody somewhere will sue them for misrepresentation.

 

[kgraeme]

We're getting into a little bit of semantics and marketing. The APU is the nForce sound that everyone wants. The RealTek is just a means to access it. From the APU Technical Brief (page 2):

The APU is responsible for providing hardware audio acceleration for
both output streams (playback) and input streams (record). The APU renders
completely to system memory. This decoupling allows the resulting stream to be
transferred to any transducer including an AC ?97 CODEC or a USB speaker
system.

The same document refers to SoundStorm (page 5):

For the most powerful integrated audio solution available today, look for nForce
systems featuring NVIDIA SoundStorm. PCs with the NVIDIA SoundStorm
solution have implemented the most complete digital audio feature set for your
desktop, delivering stunning audio and fantastic sound effects, all powered by the
nForce APU. SoundStorm exposes a vast array of inputs and outputs, including a
digital SPDIF connection for access to the Dolby Digital 5.1 real-time encoder,
connections for Microphone, CD, TV, and Line-in, Headphones, Front Left and Right
speakers, Rear Left and Right speakers, a Center channel and a Subwoofer
connection.

Next to this description is a picture of the SoundStorm ACR card. The description itself is of the physical ports. The SoundStorm is just NVIDIA's transducer to access the APU. The RealTek is the same, just not from NVIDIA. Is it "SoundStorm"? From what I've been told, no. SoundStorm is a trademarked product name. My understanding is that that product name is only for describing their ACR card. I haven't seen the card yet, and for all I know they may use RealTek on the ACR. But AFAIK, unless it's the NVIDIA card, it can't be called SoundStorm. Similarly, Epox calls the video "GeForce4MX" which isn't exactly correct either. They are making the common mistake of a mixing up a trademark name with a technology.

Not necessarily true, either. It's possible to do a full SoundStorm implementation with the Realtek 650. Look at the Abit NV7-133R which uses the 650. Abit didn't port switch, but included a backplate with the rear, center/sub, and S/PDIF in and out ports. If Epox states the board has SoundStorm audio, they probably went the Abit route. If not, I'm sure somebody somewhere will sue them for misrepresentation.

I'm fully aware of the feature set. It does provide hope that all the ports will be available; however, Abit notwithstanding, most boards typically take the port switching route. I honestly hope I'm wrong and Epox does include a full bevvy of connections.

 

[First]

I'll have a nice little review of Leadtek's nForce 2 board by Monday. Epox's board is coming fairly soon too.

 

[Mem]

I'll have a nice little review of Leadtek's nForce 2 board by Monday. Epox's board is coming fairly soon too

Evan cool! I`m looking forward to the Epox review especially on the sound & OC.

 

[mechBgon]

Originally posted by: Evan Lieb
I'll have a nice little review of Leadtek's nForce 2 board by Monday. Epox's board is coming fairly soon too.

Excellent! That gives me almost a week's time to get around to cutting up my credit card

 

[WetWilly]

We're getting into a little bit of semantics and marketing. The APU is the nForce sound that everyone wants. The RealTek is just a means to access it. From the APU Technical Brief (page 2):

According to the Technical Brief you're referencing, the APU is not what everyone wants. Read the APU/SoundStorm Feature comparison (Table 1. APU Features and Benefits) that immediately follows the section you quoted. The comparison explicitly states the APU does not to hardware Dolby Digital encode, but SoundStorm does. It also states the APU has 2-channel only support and no S/PDIF. But page 2 states the APU architecture supports DD encoding.

At this point, I'm beginning to wonder if nVidia itself knows the difference between the APU and SoundStorm.

 

[kgraeme]

Originally posted by: WetWilly
We're getting into a little bit of semantics and marketing. The APU is the nForce sound that everyone wants. The RealTek is just a means to access it. From the APU Technical Brief (page 2):

According to the Technical Brief you're referencing, the APU is not what everyone wants. Read the APU/SoundStorm Feature comparison (Table 1. APU Features and Benefits) that immediately follows the section you quoted. The comparison explicitly states the APU does not to hardware Dolby Digital encode, but SoundStorm does. It also states the APU has 2-channel only support and no S/PDIF. But page 2 states the APU architecture supports DD encoding.

At this point, I'm beginning to wonder if nVidia itself knows the difference between the APU and SoundStorm.

I assure you that the APU is what does the DD encoding. That chart is definitely confusing and NVIDIA is obviously not making it easy for people to understand.

 

[RanDum72]

If you look at some Asus nforce boards (A7N-266C and E), it requires an ACR card in order to provide all the ports for 5.1 analog ouputs as well as the digital outputs. Soundstorm is the same way, it is merely a glorified add-on card that provides all the inputs/outputs. Some mobos may not implement it the same way. Some (like MSI) may have brackets that has wires connecting to the mobo. If you look at the comparison chart, the only difference between the APU and Soundstorm is the number of speakers, SPDIF output and AC3 decode. The APU can decode AC3 but the comparison says it "can't" because it needs an SPDIF output or 5.1 analog outputs in order to crank it out. And this what Soundstorm provides, hookups for 5.1 sound.

Now, it makes me wonder if that Soundstorm card canbe swapped with the ACR card that came with my boards

 

[kgraeme]

Originally posted by: RanDum72

Now, it makes me wonder if that Soundstorm card canbe swapped with the ACR card that came with my boards

AFAIK, the ACR card you have is probably what they are now calling SoundStorm. They've just given it a spiffy name so people see it as a good thing.

 

[RanDum72]

AFAIK, the ACR card you have is probably what they are now calling SoundStorm. They've just given it a spiffy name so people see it as a good thing

Looking at the pictures of the Soundstorm, it seems like it has more capacitors and chips on it. They probably beefed up the analog output stages since the Asus nforce ACR can be low on the volume side compared to its SPDIF output.