League of Legends - F2P MOBA (like DOTA) part 2

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Kabob

Lifer
Sep 5, 2004
15,248
0
76
Ya know, we should take a note from the Hardforum guys and make our own chat room on LoL. They have a room called "[H]ard" and you can set it to auto join that room when you log on, easy to find guys to play with.
 

Malak

Lifer
Dec 4, 2004
14,696
2
0
3v3 is primarily won at champion select. The number of useful champs is reduced, but the useful champs are much more useful.
 

zebano

Diamond Member
Jun 15, 2005
4,042
0
0
I finally played some games with guys from AT past two nights, normally I work nights and am not up in time to catch games with anyone but SEA and EU players who play on US.
Good times.

It was nice to let someone else jungle for once, I had almost forgotten how to lane =)

Tried Katarina for the first time last night, surprisingly simple yet entertaining.



I just did this last night, shes ok, seems like she could really pubstomp, but really lacks on crowd control.

I also tried ezreal and was not impressed although our enemy team was extremely tanky and basically towerdived at will.... I guess that's the current meta game so I shouldn't be surprised but against Nasus/Alistar/Garen/whoever I really felt useless.
 
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HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,667
440
126
I just did this last night, shes ok, seems like she could really pubstomp, but really lacks on crowd control.

Yep, Katarina is a pure pub stomp character. She does a bunch of damage to 2 or 3 heros at once but is easy shut down to a team paying attention to her. Similar to nunu. The difference is with nunu you can actually get away without getting hurt if you have flash or something, but with katarina if you have no way of stunning or knocking her up (man that sounds bad) then you have to run and will take damage for doing so.

Her ult though is both her best and worst feature. Besides being susceptible to CC, the ult seems to change the mindset of the player to constantly want to jump in those little skirmishes as fast as possible to get the kill(s) as it refreshes her ult instantly. This is okay when it's a small gank, but it doesn't work at all in team fights against a team that is paying at least a tiny bit of attention. The aggressive play style it fosters in the end doesn't do well. Sure in some games, an aggressive katarina may get 20-30 kills easy. The next game that same play style will lead to 20-30 deaths. I've seen it way too many times. So it's a good pub stomp character, but just doesn't do well in coordinated team matches.

I also tried ezreal and was not impressed although our enemy team was extremely tanky and basically towerdived at will.... I guess that's the current meta game so I shouldn't be surprised but against Nasus/Alistar/Garen/whoever I really felt useless.

I've never been a big fan of Ezreal either. His damage is too spread out. He's great in the early game. Great at harassing, great at last hit farming, and good at pushing. Mid game he's good at chasing and running. That's about it. His damage is still very sub par. He's mostly a single target kill stealer character. He's still very squishie. One good CC and someone with decent DPS will kill him before the CC wears off. If you put some tankish items on him to survive his DPS really goes into the toilet though. His lack of CC and utility also doesn't help team fights at all. He doesn't even have a slow. He is just weak sauce.

Too bad Ezreal is free this week as everyone seems to play one in every game I've been in. I've yet to see a GOOD Ezreal in the months I've played or even from high elo players. They all suck. Only when Ezreal was first released and his damage was insanely high, then he was good. But his damage got nerfed into oblivion and as of right now he's a junk champion in my book and has been for at least 8 months. Anything you pick Ezreal for could have been done better with another champ instead.
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,667
440
126
3v3 is primarily won at champion select. The number of useful champs is reduced, but the useful champs are much more useful.

Yep. And champs that aren't as useful in 5v5 are much better in 3v3. Mundo is a prime example of this. In 5v5 mundo is worthless for the most part. In 3v3 Mundo reigns king. He ends up being ridiculously hard to kill in 3v3 and from mid game to most of late game the other team can't kill him. With Mundo's ult running it is hard for 3 champs, even primarily dps champs, to be able to kill him without being fed with really good items first.
 

zebano

Diamond Member
Jun 15, 2005
4,042
0
0
I've never been a big fan of Ezreal either. His damage is too spread out. He's great in the early game. Great at harassing, great at last hit farming, and good at pushing. Mid game he's good at chasing and running. That's about it. His damage is still very sub par. He's mostly a single target kill stealer character. He's still very squishie. One good CC and someone with decent DPS will kill him before the CC wears off. If you put some tankish items on him to survive his DPS really goes into the toilet though. His lack of CC and utility also doesn't help team fights at all. He doesn't even have a slow. He is just weak sauce.

I want to know how you push with Ez? He has only two spells that can hit multiple targets and they both only hit champions (w, r). Other than that he has to hit single targets repeatedly and he uses a ton of mana basically making tear/Manamune a necessity. I did like the teleport on his e, but at 100+ mana per use and a 10+ second cooldown it's not that helpful except as an escape. His main damage (q) is also easy to avoid early game just by staying inside your creep wave.
 

zebano

Diamond Member
Jun 15, 2005
4,042
0
0
Yep. And champs that aren't as useful in 5v5 are much better in 3v3. Mundo is a prime example of this. In 5v5 mundo is worthless for the most part. In 3v3 Mundo reigns king. He ends up being ridiculously hard to kill in 3v3 and from mid game to most of late game the other team can't kill him. With Mundo's ult running it is hard for 3 champs, even primarily dps champs, to be able to kill him without being fed with really good items first.

Yeah I love Nunu in 3x3, the snowball + bloodboil means that no one can catch you and consume both keeps you healed and lets you get the jungle creeps + buffs easily. Last time I played him there I think I bought boots + 4x D. Ring +4 wards and basically won lol.

Singed is another champ whose insanely easy to play on TT. Due to the narrow long lanes, he can easily farm/push and he's Singed so he can't be caught / killed without a heroic effort.
 
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HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,667
440
126
I want to know how you push with Ez? He has only two spells that can hit multiple targets and they both only hit champions (w, r). Other than that he has to hit single targets repeatedly and he uses a ton of mana basically making tear/Manamune a necessity. I did like the teleport on his e, but at 100+ mana per use and a 10+ second cooldown it's not that helpful except as an escape. His main damage (q) is also easy to avoid early game just by staying inside your creep wave.

He pushes because he can constantly hit minions without fear of being harassed back in the early game. Mid to late game, with enough CDR, he can use his ult constantly and send it through many waves of minions coming down a lane. That's how he pushes early and late game. It is different in how he pushes depending upon the game time.

He sucks at tower killing though. Still there are better lane pushing characters in this game. Ezreal really doesn't excel at anything.

Yeah I love Nunu in 3x3, the snowball + bloodboil means that no one can catch you and consume both keeps you healed and lets you get the jungle creeps + buffs easily. Last time I played him there I think I bought boots + 4x D. Ring +4 wards and basically won lol.

Singed is another champ whose insanely easy to play on TT. Due to the narrow long lanes, he can easily farm/push and he's Singed so he can't be caught / killed without a heroic effort.

The narrow lanes also help nunu get his ult off easier as well. As enemy champs are limited in the direction the can go to get away from it most of the time.
 
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Firsttime

Platinum Member
Mar 31, 2005
2,517
0
71
The narrow lanes also help nunu get his ult off easier as well. As enemy champs are limited in the direction the can go to get away from it most of the time.

This and all the bushes in 3's help Nunu alot. I dislike 3's because they are inherently unbalanced. If the game is geared towards 5's there are going to be heroes who aren't balanced in 3's at all. I find this really frustrating. Chogath, Mundo, Trynd+Ziliean, various other super tanks. If I see any combo of those on a 3's loading screen I immediately regret starting the match.
 

Fallengod

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2001
5,908
19
81
Is there any config file that I can edit binds in? It is fairly annoying to have to launch a game to try and see and config my stuff. Should be able to edit keys externally.
 

crownjules

Diamond Member
Jul 7, 2005
4,858
0
76
Ezreal has such schizophrenic design and only overcame it when initially released by having crazy high base damage and ratios. And his W was also a heal which gave him a ton of utility.

His passive increases with AD.
Q scales with AD or AP, whichever is greater. But AP scaling is almost worthless.
W scales with AP.
E scales with AP, but who uses this as an attack that often? Teleport is usually reserved for escaping. Even when attempting to use it as an attack, the projectile's random targeting means it's not very effective except in fights isolated from creeps/other champs and puts you in harm's way.
R scales with AP or AD, whichever one is greater.

See the problem? His skills are basically an even split of AP or AD, so by building one you're hamstringing half your stuff. But you can't build hybrid because then your ult will be weaksauce. I think he'd benefit more if his ult was a combo of AD+AP scaling because then you could build hybrid and he might be one of the few champs who could actually pull it off.

If a champ doesn't have any form of CC to keep champs close then they need to have higher burst damage to compensate.
 
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zebano

Diamond Member
Jun 15, 2005
4,042
0
0
I'm going to try out MF tonight, any tips or just the usual AD build (i.e. Rush a BF).
 

nanobreath

Senior member
May 14, 2008
978
0
0
I'm going to try out MF tonight, any tips or just the usual AD build (i.e. Rush a BF).

A typical AD build will work nice on her. I try to go more pure +dmg items than crit and asp so her skills get good bonuses. Just remember that your 'q' deals the most damage after the bounce, so in team fights target the tank with it! Guarantees it bounces to a squishy. Same during laning, target a minion, and bounce it to the champion behind. If you can, use 'E' before ulting so they are slowed. The nice thing about her ult versus kat and nunu etc is you can ult pretty far away from everybody and make it hard for them to stun you right away.

One of my favorite I owned the whole team moments was on MF. I was getting red on bottom, when there was a sudden team fight up top. My team was of course fighting 4 on 5 with me not there. By the time I get there, my entire team is dead, and everybody on their team is alive, though some are close to dead. So I sat back waiting for them to go for the tower, as soon as they did, I opened up my ULT. Almost instantly got 1 of them dead. Got 1 more while they were coming towards me. Got another while running back to my next tower. Then chased the other two into some bushes and killed one and was able to run away from the 5th before they could kill me. Lived with less than 100 HP after taking on their entire team. It wasn't a game where I was majorly fed...at least not until that point. Was a shame though, because apparently that was so demoralizing...they surrendered.
 

Taejin

Moderator<br>Love & Relationships
Aug 29, 2004
3,271
0
0
If you guys think Ezreal is weak please watch Reginald play him. Just goes to show that some champions will make magic in the right hands.
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,667
440
126
If you guys think Ezreal is weak please watch Reginald play him. Just goes to show that some champions will make magic in the right hands.

Good players can play any character, even bad champs, and still do well if not astounding against weak players. That is a testament to the player skill and not the champ. Speaking objnectively as possible about each champ though is different. Ezreal is just a really bad champ and has been for a long time. I think they gave up on fixing him though since they haven't touched him since they nerfed him hard to the point where people only play him during a free week.

There are several chars that do good as hybrids but EZ is not one of them. Nidalee and Jax are examples of decently made hybrid chars. They could be better but they work better than EZ.

There are just some champs when I see then being played I groan badly if they are on my team. Some champs aren't worth playing unless you are pub stomping. EZ is one of them.

They have fixed some champs from crap hell in my opinion. Eve is one. She isn't what I call the best champ but she is decent enough I don't get pissed if she is picked at least now.
 

Taejin

Moderator<br>Love & Relationships
Aug 29, 2004
3,271
0
0
Good players can play any character, even bad champs, and still do well if not astounding against weak players. That is a testament to the player skill and not the champ. Speaking objnectively as possible about each champ though is different. Ezreal is just a really bad champ and has been for a long time. I think they gave up on fixing him though since they haven't touched him since they nerfed him hard to the point where people only play him during a free week.

There are several chars that do good as hybrids but EZ is not one of them. Nidalee and Jax are examples of decently made hybrid chars. They could be better but they work better than EZ.

There are just some champs when I see then being played I groan badly if they are on my team. Some champs aren't worth playing unless you are pub stomping. EZ is one of them.

They have fixed some champs from crap hell in my opinion. Eve is one. She isn't what I call the best champ but she is decent enough I don't get pissed if she is picked at least now.

Characters are only as good as the players that play them. Barring a completely analytical by-the-numbers assessment of a champion (which, by the way, I think is foolhardy, because it's much harder to assess the true strength of a champion by the numbers; positioning, game flow and many other harder-to-quantify factors contribute to champion viability), the best way to assess a champion's strength is how they are played.

Now, I don't know your personal philosophy on the subject, but I think that champions should be balanced primarily on higher levels of play; that isn't to say lower levels of play should be ignored, but balancing around higher levels of play should be the primary objective. No one argues that SC2 or any other competitive game is balanced around high levels of play, in fact, it would be foolish to cater to the lower end of the market.

So, I think your contention that Ezreal is weak is derived from the fact that you view him through the lenses of lower level play. Ezreal doesn't have the same overwhelming level of OP-ness he did when first released, but he can still be just as effective as any other carry in the right team composition.

This brings me to my final point: team composition. Tangential to this whole assertion that a champion is 'bad' is completely ignoring an entire aspect of gameplay: pick vs counterpick. I suppose you play a lot of unranked games? In many ranked games, the outcome of the game is determined at character pick. Many champions can be 'countered' by another champion's pick, at multiple levels.

For instance, Kassadin is a counterpick versus Nidalee, but not in a lane. A counter-lane pick for Nidalee would be Lee Sin. A counterpick for a Shen would be Janna, because you don't let the other team have Shen/Janna, because you'll lose the game all other things being equal. A counterpick for Karthus would be Soraka, and etc. I'm only mentioning this because my remarks about Ezreal's viability are made within the context of pick-counterpick. He would be, of course, way less viable against a team that had champions like Kassadin, Irelia and the like.

Finally,

Eve was considered crap a long time ago, and hasn't been changed fundamentally since. She's only considered 'okay' to 'good' now because the community has got a clue. Jax is a shit champion. If you want to relegate a champion to 'shit' status, it would have to be Jax. He takes too long to get going/fed, brings nothing to the table if the other team has any clue, and is too easily CC'd to death before he can make an impact. Don't take my word for it though, hop over to solomid and take a gander at their high-level guide for Jax.
 

Kabob

Lifer
Sep 5, 2004
15,248
0
76
So I "actually" decide to play PvP and join a team hoping to play an AP character. Champion select time, everyone sprints to grab their characters so I wait patiently to see what our team will need. Ezreal, TF, Master Yi, Poppy. OK, no tank, probably more important than AP, I'll grab a tank (even though I suck at the role). Everyone locks in except for Poppy. So I grab Rammus and lock in. Then Poppy switches to Amumu and locks in...

Two tanks, two carries, and an Ez =
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
1,077
126
That is why in random I don't cater to what the others are using unless they actually discuss it in chat. People will change last minute usually because they are setting masteries and haven't changed their character yet.
 

Firsttime

Platinum Member
Mar 31, 2005
2,517
0
71
Yeah, I don't usually play heroes I can't carry with if I don't know at least most of the people on my team.
 

sash1

Diamond Member
Jul 20, 2001
8,897
1
0
AP blitz: total hero!



best kill: teamfight happens. ww ults our cait, i immediately ult him out of it. they all melt minus chogath and eve, who invis'd away. we're chasing cho and my ult comes off cooldown so i use it. apparently eve showed back up but was still invis. she died.

also, really glad irelia is on sale. i've wanted her for a while now. 487RP totally worth
 

Gothgar

Lifer
Sep 1, 2004
13,463
1
0
played a couple games with some of the guys, good times, and they let me in even though I am not level 30, hooray

Played one the other night, beat down on the other team, then again today, but we lost, since Rumble is op bullshit... and then they let me lane vs rumble, as Irelia... I found one thing I cannot do well with her, lmao
 
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